D&D Court: Goats, Rogues, and Shark Farts

either way that rogue could just also use steady aim feature from their class to get advantage making the arguement generally pointless if he wants to stay in the same spot he uses that if he moves he rehides rogues have more than 1 way to setoff sneak attack

My tortoise farts super loud despite also having a cloaca. It's unsettling.

I had a Boston terrier, definitely audibly farted. I currently have a poodle, also audibly farts, especially when going up stairs. Dog farting is situational.

I just have to say this, as far as dogs go they do make sounds, my mom's dog a big mastif pitbull mix is the gassiest dog she burps hiccups and farts constantly, her farts aren't real loud though it's an squeek that is easy to think was a chair squeeking or your shoe.

I feel like murph took a loooooot of liberties with the rogue one. regardless of the definition of a hedge, rulings like "any intelligent creature would know blank" is irrelevant if they don't do an intelligence check. they know that? do an intelligence check. they would see that? do a perception check. like at a certain point it doesn't matter how crunchy the question is if we're not using the rules. assuming that the DM did these checks but not assuming that the layout allowed for the player to reasonably hide behind the hedge doesn't really make any sense. like they definitely should've just gone with the DM's ruling especially because the DM is allowed to say that you can't do that, but it's super cheap to say so after the rogue has already rolled. and they're really not going off of what the case says. he's like "well this *could've* happened" but that doesn't matter because it's not what the case says. IMO it's thrown out for lack of info or ruling w the rogue. also I don't think murph would rule the same today

I think hiding in the hedge multiple times is legit unless RAW is specifically against it. When I play shooter games in the midst of the fight and the mind games I regularly fall for an enemy “running away” when they really just sit behind cover for a moment, I divert my attention to the main point, and then they shoot me from behind. A high hide roll vs a low perception shows that their deft and trickery fooled the other character that got psyched out, lacked experience, and was fooled.

Hahaha. You cán hear a dog fart. Just the sound of air going through a drinking straw. 🤣. And the f’n smell afterwards.

Hedges are tall! Sametc is correct

Man, Murph called it. People REALLY did not like the rogue ruling.

My dog has audibly farted herself awake

I love how fired up Jake gets about the definition of Hedge.

My pug and pekingese both noisy fart! Sometimes they’re silent, sometimes they’re high-pitched squeaks, sometimes they’re full-blown rips.

The one about the younger sister actually got me teary eyed, new dm here and luckily my players praise me constantly and I feel happy with how I run my campaign even though I was crazy nervous going in I couldn’t imagine still going if I hadn’t gotten the initial praise I did for my DMing She deserves the world hope she realizes how hard of a task it is and she has proven herself several times over from what I’ve heard

Okay but that intro slaps

I love the intro but its so long

On the dogs farting thing. You all are mistaken. Most dogs fart silently but not all. My parents pit/boxer mix has loud farts that sound like a human fart

It’s funny with the rogue and the shrub thing cause that is exactly what Murph does as Riz during the “football” fight in fantasy high

I'd like to weigh in. My dog audibly farts every morning when he stretches after waking up. Not a chonky boy either. Rather lean

I have 100% heard my dog fart!

Anybody else sort of picture the crit justice’s as evil wizards following the punishment they come up with?

I specifically told my players at the beginning of our campaign that you if you want to continue to get the bonus from Hide you need to hide in a new spot unless you didn't attack or do something obvious

I hope heartedly disagree with Murph and Caldwell's arguments on the repeated Hide ruling. The writing of the Hiding rule states only an ACTIVE perception (EG the singular target he is shooting using their action to make a perception check) can discern your location unless you shout something. If you cannot see the person shooting you, they get advantage, and hiding behind anything no matter how many times in succession, makes you unable to see that person, hiding extends that until a shot is fired or sound is made. Hide is 90% a rogue utility, and they need all the help they can get. Use rules as boring/wrong&punishing for your full casters or your min maxed Battle Master fighters, not your poor roguey bois. PS love everyone that read this opinion of mine, regardless of if you agree or not! Lol.

MURPH. The rogue had 30 feet of movement to use.. if the issue is they needed to have moved, "ok I moved 5 feet to the right" resolves it. Or if there was ANY OTHER COVER within 30 feet, the dm was being a doof.

I can, for sure, hear my dog fart. He’s a little thick boy, so he probably has some cheeks

No one tell them about the hexblood lineage.

My old dog's fart were very stinky and very squeaky

My dog definitely farts audibly

I feel like my dog farts are audible

Never thought I'd comment about my dogs farts but here it is. My dog farts SOO loud. Not only does he not have butt cheeks he is also very fluffy, yet his farts are loud as hell.

The return of the 6 hour into rofl

I hear my dog fart aaaaaall the time. Most of her farts are very loud

I hear my dogs farts all the time

I raised the no cheeks no squeaks to the butthole precedent, as I have heard many a dog fart, hell I have even heard horse farts before. No cheeks no squeaks is flawed and bunk and that precedent needs to be overruled.

I am so glad that they gave credit to the kids for being so clever about sharks farting, or not farting in this case.

Yesssss come to Portland Oregon!!!

Regarding the rogue issue, I think the player is in the right. What my DM has ruled in the past, to make it work regarding the story, is that all other action happening in the round is more pertinent to the enemy's attention than the rogue's presence. So even when a rogue is next to the enemy stabbing them in the back, when that rogue rolls a 20+ stealth afterward, it's that the enemy is so focused on the other attackers that they don't realize the rogue is next to them.

7 minutes in and the crew is arguing about the ship of Theseus! Going to be good ep

With the hedge case the player rolled a 30, so the player could have seemed to have moved from the enemies perspective, thus they wouldn't know where the player was. Although it could be argued that you would need an additional deception check for that. Although the player does sound like a poor player, so I don't know if they should get the ruling even if they are in the right.

The player was an asshole. But the rules don’t say anything about having to move to a new place to hide, so that ruling by the dm would be homebrew, and should have been stated to the players beforehand. It’s also a hack “ruling form on high” solution. Give the player disadvantage and the gnolls advantage, or scaling penalties/bonuses to stealth/perception for each turn they don’t move and try to hide. But also…Ending the session over a single attack roll? Come on.

I too am getting fired up about hedge-gate. PERSONALLY, I reckon if you moved 5 ft along the hedge then the 30 stealth check can be honoured but if did not move AT ALL, I can see the DM logic. I rest my case!

Sonoran coral snakes have an anus-like hole called a cloaca that can suck in air and then expel it with a popping noise to ward off predators. Yup, that's a fart. -Vox, Oct 19, 2018 Cloacas can flap the breeze my dudes

The fart sound isn't from the cheeks 😂 I have a large labrador and he audibly farts all the time.

nothing has shocked me less than both emily and caldwell googling if sharks fart at the same time

You ABSOLUTELY can hear a dog fart, mine does it all the time 😂

Dogs can fart. My dogs lets gross ones out and they are loud! I have a German Short Hair and A Black Lab Mix. Both have cleared rooms auditorilly and with stench

I have to agree with Jake and Emily about hedges, they're big enough that if you see someone hide in one you wouldn't necessarily expect them to stay where they are - they could easily be moving somewhere else so the fact that they shoot from the same spot is arguably as surprising as them moving. The whack-a-mole defence is pretty airtight imo

Hedges are obviously tall enough to hide behind. If the DM said the Gnolls were keeping an eye on the Rogue, but didn’t roll a 30 Perception, then the Rogue is hidden. Right?

I love how Emily thinks that scientists are rich enough to buy their parents houses. I wish that was true. I might not be the most famous of scientists, but my salary isn't terrible these days but I'm still far from that level.

Hard disagree.

Yes, they kept the whole song this time 😍 I listen to it multiple times, it's so good

Adding to the discord, I had a jack russel/puggle mix that would fart loudly and it would scare her.

I just want to say that listening to d&d court I do want to comment that my dog audibly farts. Yes it is horrible, yes it smells bad, but he audibly farts. Audible farts do exist for dogs. 😂

Can't believe I'm coming to comment before I've even finished listening to the full episode, but just wanted to give my two cents on the rogue/hide situation: As someone who has played a high level rogue in a combat-heavy, number-crunchy game, we did implement the "You can't hide in the same place twice" rule. The enemy has seen you, they know where you are. You might be able to argue that you could go to the other end of the hedge/wall/fence/etc. and fire from there, so you're now firing from a new position and hence, gaining the surprise on them. But it's not surprising to get shot at from the same location twice. Of course, lots of other cool ways for a rogue to get sneak attack anyways! You want to work with your allies anyways, so fire at the enemies that your friends are in melee with. I also went with the fun option of taking Wizard Initiate to grab Find Familiar so I could get the help action each round & get that sweet sneak attack damage. And as much as I love to "No think just big damage" my way through games sometimes, rogues are supposed to be intelligent and cunning (typically), so the idea is to get creative with your hiding and figuring out smart, sneaky ways to get that sneak attack rather than doing the same thing every round. EDIT TO ADD: Also, can't forget Reliable Talent at Rogue 11! So, assuming that you've put all your points into Dex by that point for +5, and you probably have expertise in Stealth, that means you're always rolling a minimum of 23 for your Stealth rolls, so it just gets tiring for everyone. I rule in favour of the DM and telling the rogue to find cool new hiding spots instead of just tall hedges

So happy that my case got heard!! I will let my Dragonborn player know so she can schedule her many many dermatologist appointments.

Dogs absolutely can fart audibly. And when they do they are often surprised by the noise which is hilarious and endearing, until you smell it

Guys, language of polymorph. C'mon now. Especially you, Murph, rules man that you are. "The transformation lasts for the Duration, or until the target drops to 0 Hit Points or dies. The new form can be any beast whose Challenge rating is equal to or less than the target's (or the target's level, if it doesn't have a Challenge rating). The target's game Statistics, including mental Ability Scores, are replaced by the Statistics of the chosen beast. It retains its Alignment and Personality. The target assumes the Hit Points of its new form. When it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of Hit Points it had before it transformed. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 Hit Points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce the creature's normal form to 0 Hit Points, it isn't knocked Unconscious." It works like wild shape. It also says "drops to 0 hit points OR dies," which implies that if you drop to 0 hit points while polymorphed, you don't die. Devil's still have to follow rules. That's kind of their thing. We all know about Johnny and his shiny fiddle made of gold. As punishment, Murph must trade souls with a city pigeon.

i'm going to a corn maze in the next couple weeks, i'll have to bring some long straws with me 😂 oh to see inside emily's brain 😂

The Devil contract tho? I feel like it would be super in line for a Devil to consider reaching 0 hp while polymorphed as a “death” that feels just tricky and twisted enough for a Devil contract imo. Fun to think about nevertheless!

See for the Rogue one I feel like I’d be like “ok so the bad guys just saw you shoot. If you want to hide in the same spot, I need a balance.” I’d either make the rogue make a deception check to trick the baddies to look the other way then hide or do hide with disadvantage for essentially the same reason.

I also have to weigh in here: my huskies (Hex and Cinder) both make very human-like farts 😂 No cheeks, definitely squeaks! To the point where my fiancé and I sometimes think it was one of us!

There’s a few things that kind of irk me about the hedge rogue. I also thought of a hedge as long and taller. And i think it’s annoying for the rogue if they hid and then did their attack the next round only for the dm to say they weren’t hidden. Then why let them hide without telling them? I have more but my break is almost over but the last thing I’ll say is everyone on the pod thought it was bad of the rogue to make the session end cause of this conflict but we have no idea the history between this rogue and the dm. Some dm’s are very strict on rogues and if they have been hard on them and not let them get very many sneak attacks then I could see that being a breaking point for a player because that’s the one cool thing about being a rogue. So not getting to do it very often would suck.

Straight up, my dog RIPS ass loud.

Hate to go against the honorable supreme crit but my dog farts frequently and VERY audibly. I do tell him he has cute butt cheeks all the time though…

The dragonborn case reminds me of Rainbow Fish

I say that a rogue that is hidden then attacks and hides again successful means that the enemy has no idea where the arrow came from. They would then have to roll in order to find where it came from.

I am kind of surprised how lopsided the rogue stealth case is in the comments. I was on Jake’s side at first and considering RAW but I think their discussion shifted my view based on the application of Rule Zero. If you trust and respect the effort the DM in your campaign, by virtue of the consistency and culmination of that trust, PCs should respect the final decision of the DM, specifically if it is something small with the scope of game (of course, PC should still be allowed to make their argument). This doesnt mean DM can’t be wrong, but it becomes that question of “is this worth ruining our collective fun over or diminishing the momentum of the game?” It might even make the game more fun to challenge the PCs to use the environment more creatively.

To make Emily's law-dodging polymorph dream a reality, make sure the contract reads "I, Moonshine, a Crick-Elf" and then true polymorph, or even reincarnate into a different form, such as human, dragonborn with a few missing scales, or a halfling, and then that could potentially be a way to get our of a contract, but not the spell itself However! listening to the discussion gave me an idea of: What if a Wizard sells his soul to a devil, then became a lich. Stores the soul in a phylactery or soul jar and locks it up with wards and such in an offshore account that doesn't extradite to the Nine Hells. "Sorry, buddy, can't have my soul, I don't have it either".

This is a small thing, but I appreciate that Murph put the full Intro song back in. Thank you!

Jake is 100% correct here. The Whack-A-Mole point is what wins the argument.

#TeamHedge

Every time I listen to these I just imagine listening to an episode of NADDPOD where Murph makes a rules call and the crew just argue with his call for 30+ minutes. It's crazy and hilarious to me.

Jake is really in the right and Murph's argument is REALLY being unreasonably DM biased with the rogue case. The rule about giving away your location should be covered by the hide action after the attack, and I think saying the player ended the session is assuming that one party is responsible for escalating conflict. 10000% Jake was in the right going hard for the rogue and I'd love to see an episode which pushed Murph as hard on his DM bias as Lou got pushed on his support for players (also I'm saying this as a perma-DM).

That theme song is a true gem

I just want to mention that snakes have really loud farts and it’s wild.

My dog used to walk up the stairs in front of me and loudly fart each step of the way

my little chihuahua rips loud farts, just saying #dogsaudiblyfart

no my dog def farts - I think it’s the butthole — like lips whistling sort of

I love the opening

I really love that half of these comments are about dog farts. I feel seen.

I want the court to know that my dog Baggins, a Shepard chow mix, has very audible and stinky farts…. #dogsaudiblyfart

So I sent something to the PO box a while ago and I haven't heard anything. Is there a way to contact and ask if they got it?

Tall shrubs that are close together is a hedge used for shade and privacy so a hedge is specifically something used to obscure view. The dm probably meant a shrub

I heard my dog fart for the first time the other day! No cheeks needed, y’all!

Page 195, PHB, regarding unseen attackers, "If you are hidden - both unseen and unheard - when you make an attack, you give away your LOCATION when your attack hits or misses." Its established that a rogue would need to at least move to another location before hiding. However, as was said in the episode, Steady Aim would have been the appropriate alternative. The Skulker feat from the PHB even has the benefit of "When you are hidden from a creature and miss it with a ranged weapon attack, making the attack doesn't reveal your position". Ruling that the rogue could repeatedly hide in the same spot makes things like that obsolete.

Would be thrilled if you guys did a live show in Minneapolis/St. Paul!! This show was such an inspiration in me starting to DM, and seeing you guys love would be super cool!

So I'm not sure if this is how it works but it just kinda seems right in my head, if the rogue attacks from hiding and then hides again as a bonus action on the SAME turn, wouldn't the gnolls actually NOT know where he was? Isn't that kind of the point of attacking from hiding and then hiding again?

Had to weigh in. I had a dog that could (as Murph called it) ~rip ass~ like a big ass fart and it smelt horrible. A beautiful chunky lab

Love that we got the full intro this time!

I can confirm I have, on rare occasion, heard a dog fart. It is exceedingly rare, but it is like a small "toot".

Shark dad here, I demand a retrial. I present into evidence exhibit A, a photo of my sons mini. https://imgur.com/a/ZCev3mR As per the established precedent of no cheeks no squeaks I think it’s clear there is some cheeks there. It’s established law that even though his cheeks are small Bev he still has an ass.

Dogs’ farts definitely make noise. My dog often farts going up the stairs and there is a little “toot” on each step.

RAW the Rogue always gets advantage against a creature that they have successfully hidden from. Like Jake said, just because you know where an attack is coming from doesn’t mean you know when it’s coming. If you want to make the argument that the gnolls are paying such close attention to this hedge that attacks from it can’t get advantage then it is a reasonable counter argument that everyone else should get advantage because it means they’re clearly paying too much attention to this hedge. If the DM wanted to punish the player for hiding in the same place he should have had the Gnolls go behind the hedge to flush out the rogue or cast a spell in that area. If a DM ignored the rules for the sole purpose of stealing advantage from me, I would also get pretty pissed.

Murph. You are valid and I respect you, but if you have to justify an argument by making up multiple hypothetical situations with completely different details, then it is not a good argument.

You should get the rules lawyer himself Brennan Lee Mulligan on one of these D&D court

Thanks To this episode I now have the song “Sheep go to Heaven Goats go to hell” by the band Cake stuck in my head 🐐

One aspect that wasn't discussed about the rogue is that the "hide" action is an abstraction for a lot of things. It means how stealthy the rogue is going to his hiding place, his choice of hiding place (ie not a shitty small bush), possibly feinting and using the chaos of combat to confuse their opponents. With a 30, which is essentially a supernatural level success, the rogue didn't just plop back down at the exact spot behind a shitty bush.

I would personally say that "hedge" does not refer to the size of the plant, but rather the grooming. i.e. a shrub that is well trimmed is a hedge.

Would love y’all to come to Richmond, Va if y’all are looking at where to do live shows!

Appreciate the ruling and expect an update soon

My dog definitely farts, and in fact gets scared if the fart makes a noise.

I think for the rogue case, it could come down to what else happened in the round. Was the person the rogue attacking hit by other people? Because it’s hard to believe someone would be staring at a bush waiting for a rogue if they were fireballed since the last time the rogue attacked, especially if everyone else is in plain sight.

Mid way through work and this drops - hell yeah!

Dungeon court are the episodes that my husband and I have agreement that we listen together and it kills me when it gets posted and I have to wait. 😭😭😭

Woooo and to think I was gonna have to wait for some of the best content!