Radio War Nerd EP #81 — Early Uighur History with Carl Zha

Just as an Tarim Mummy update since our understanding of human migration history is always changing: "A genomic study published in 2021 found that these early mummies (dating from 2,135 to 1,623 BCE) had high levels of Ancient North Eurasian ancestry (ANE, about 72%), with smaller admixture from Ancient Northeast Asians (ANA, about 28%), but no detectable Western Steppe-related ancestry.[7][8] They formed a genetically isolated local population that "adopted neighbouring pastoralist and agriculturalist practices, which allowed them to settle and thrive along the shifting riverine oases of the Taklamakan Desert."

yes, part 2 and 3 and 4 ... please. in fact, a by carl with war nerd commentaries! also, your listeners greatly value your rational skepticism - something entirely missing in anglo mainstream media.

Yeah, definitely need another one to flesh out the story. I'm finding the history of central asia super fascinating. The brief mention of the Achaemenid Greeks & Buddhism blew my mind. 400-600BC in that region is a blank spot in my , and I suspect many others, knowledge

I think I needed to be in front a computer/taking active notes to really parse and retain what was said. Zha is a treasure, for sure, and I support a part 2 but - hoo boy - hard listening required.

This was really good. I'll cast my vote for more.

By the way, I was the one who made the "allies" comment, point taken, and I shouldn't have used that term. I was just annoyed, I guess, at hearing the same arguments, points and counter points two shows in a row (literally end 79, start of 80), with nothing substantial happening in between. Apologies for pointing a finger needlessly

Part 2, then 3, because we all know how it will go down!

Carl is a beast....but dammit, I kept having a WTF moment throughout this...Had to replay many times, but a good podcast.

Part 2 needed, great stuff from a long time WN follower (first time patron of the pod!)

Please do a Part Three.

I think this is the best episode you guys have ever done. Can't wait to hear more from Carl Zha in the future. Really smart dude.

Great Show!! Very informative. I've come accross a couple of little known films that touch on these topics. Warriors of Heaven and Earth is an adventure set at the time when the Tang and the Turks were fighting for control of China and deals with the transport of Buddhist relics accross China. The other one is called Musa which maybe Korean but deals with the collapse of the Yuan empire. There is a fight between some Koreans and some Mongols over a princess. What is interesting to me (now) is that the Mongols refer to themselves as the sons of the Blue Wolf. I've always heard that the Tang were more open to outside influences than other dynasties and their genesis may explain why. The Mongols being buddhist that far back seems odd compared with what I've read elsewhere though, (limited admittedly). In in his book "The History of the Mongols", Michael Prawdin asserts that the Mongols of Ghengis Khans time were sky worshipers. He later states that the Mongols only ceased to be a threat when the Eastern Mongols adopted yellow-hat Buddhism - which I assume was quite late on.

Please do a Pt II!!

Perhaps an unpopular opinion: I was utterly lost through most of Carl's virtuoso performance, I'd like a second show but only if you start with the present and work backwards, rather than building from the distant past

I want Carl Zha part 2 and probably part 3 as well

Another smashing show. Carl is a legend. The breadth and depth of his knowledge, tying so much together. Man oh man. Utter delight. Also, same question as above about your Iliad translation.

@GaryBrecher Will The WarNerd Iliad be available in Kindle format? I've stopped buying paper books because they fill up my house too quickly. I would make an exception if I could get a signed copy, though. ;) Can this be arranged for your loyal subscribers?

Carl, do you have more information on the theological beliefs of the head-smashing Buddhists of Central Asia. I'm curious about how their flavour of Buddhism worked. I know (with my very limited knowledge) that the Buddhism of the Irrawaddy and Tibetian regions are or have been quite warlike, so Central Asian Buddhism can't be entirely of it's own kind. TBH, this would make a great show -- historical warlike Buddhism, where it existed, and its philosophical, theological, and historical roots.

i support a part 2 and probably the required part 3 as well.

Absolutely fascinating. Can't wait for a part 2.

It is interesting history. I am down for a part 2.

In ISIS, the Chinese Uighur are the lowest of the lowest, a few rungs below black people. More often than not they are just given a knife and ordered to run at the enemy, or at best they will be left behind to blow themselves up to cover a retreat. Also these past few years, Uighurs who didn't cut the mustard in ISIS keep turning up at the door of the Legion Etrangere. Apparently nobody told them that the Legion checks every candidate with Interpol and the country of origin...

I'd very much enjoy a part 2. I'd also love an episode on the Chinese Civil War, Dr. Dolan, I remember a War Nerd article from years ago that I read online comparing Hezbollah in 2006 to the PLA in the 1930's and why what worked in 2006 didn't work in the 30's. It really sparked my interest in the Chinese civil war.

I have loved the two episodes with Carl and would love any more that RWN could make. If this was a multi part series I would listen to all of them and relisten to them after the series was done for.

Just finished a first listen of the discussion with Carl Zha; so much great information! I'll need to hear it again just to catch some of the things I didn't catch the first time. I am definitely looking forward to return visits to RWN by Carl. Thank you for doing this!!

The fellow who invented pinyin, Zhou Youguan, died this past January at age 111. Here is a thoughtful column from Johnson, in the Economist, including some interesting background on the politics: <a href="http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21714970-coexistence-pinyin-and-chinese-characters-highlights-role-emotion" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21714970-coexistence-pinyin-and-chinese-characters-highlights-role-emotion</a>

Amazing episode! Please do part 2.

The "x" and "q" aren't spelled "sh" and "ch" because these aren't really the correct pronunciations, "x" for example is more like a Norwegian "kj", that's why you will see "sh" and "ch" being used together with x,q (as in Chongqing for example). I just guess x and q were chosen because they are the least used letters in English, and "c" ("ts" in pinyin) is sort of a dispensable double of "k".

a note on the CH as Q. Its rendered as such in pinyin, the official romanization system of the prc, developed by zhou youguang shortly after the revolution. in addition to helping esl teachers order beer, it's used to teach chinese kids how to pronounce characters. maybe that explains the weird transliteration? zhou died this year at age 111, having written 10 books in the years since he turned 100.

Cool thing to note about how the Chinese fought off steppe cavalry was by bringing armoured wagons to use as a mobile defensive platform to shoot crossbows from and protect against enemy cavalry charges, which is not too different from the wagon forts used by the Hussites in the Hussite Wars. By the Ming period, the Chinese attached rudimentary gunpowder weapons onto wagons to fight off the Mongols.

I would love to hear more about china and the surrounding history of that area. As you guys said its hard to find a clear history of that region, so having Carl be able to walk through it as he does is amazing.

Yay! Carl is back!