Radio War Nerd EP #355 — Ottoman Empire's End (Part 1), feat. Ryan Gingeras
Guest: Ryan Gingeras, historian & professor
We've been wanting to dive into Turkish history for awhile now, since so many stories we cover lead back to the Ottomans or Turkey. Historian Ryan Gingeras walks us through the brutal, humiliating & violent last years of the Ottoman Empire. In part 1, we begin in 1908 with the rise of the Committee for Union & Progress (CUP), otherwise known as the Young Turks, through the humiliations of the Italo-Turkic War and Balkan Wars, and end on the eve of World War One.
Maps:
*Ottoman Empire, 1905
*Rumeli (Ottoman Balkans) pre-Balkan Wars
*Balkan map after Balkan Wars, 1913
*Books & articles by Ryan Gingeras cited:
-Fall of the Sultanate: The Great War and the End of the Ottoman Empire 1908–1922
-The Last Days of the Ottoman Empire
-"The History That Happened: Setting the Record Straight on the Armenian Genocide" by Ryan Gingeras, War on the Rocks, Dec 4 2019
*Relevant RWN Episodes:
-The Battle of Lepanto (EP #111)
-Italo-Turkish War of 1911-12, with Annibale (EP #257)
-Turkey in WWI (EP #155)
-Turkish Invasion of Cyprus, Pt 1 (EP #337)
Total time: 1:33:53
Comments (16)
Yeah, funny the Sukhoi shootdown was the first episode I listened to. It came up somehow when i googled “the War Nerd” after vague hints on Twitter that such a fabled individual existed. (It did the trick, safe to say.)
Just starting but what strikes me is that the years of colonialism, either direct or via trade or financial means, are only ancient history to the colonizers. Guaranteed China remembers the century of humiliation more than any of the Europeans, Americans, and others that took part. There's a strong lesson in there
It depends on whether such resentments are politically useful or not. Korea continues to stoke resentments about Japanese atrocities going back centuries because it's a good way to rile people up (and it's also something that the North and South can have in common). Nobody cared about the Jews who died in the Holocaust and the victims only wanted to move on with their lives, until it became a useful talking point for Zionists. Then the loudest and most militant voices shrieking about the Holocaust were people who never lost anyone in the camps, and who immediately aided and abetted the ratlines helping Nazi war criminals flee prosecution, and who have created the world's largest concentration camp for Israel's captive Arab population. But I also don't think that the colonial oppressors have forgotten. Quite the contrary; if you pay attention to racist rhetoric, a lot of it boils down to "We've got to kill them off before they do to us what we did to them." And there's a lot of absurd, illogical personal resentment there, too. Dolan always likes to quote this Irish story, something like: An Englishman and an Irishman are fighting in some battle, and the Englishman skewers the Irishman with his bayonet. As the Irishman dies, he gasps out, "Why do you hate us so much anyway?" and the Englishman leans in and whispers, "We'll never forgive you for what we've done to you." Psychology is weird. I don't know if there's much of a lesson to be learned at all, except that people will exploit whatever's politically useful and ignore the rest.
I have a dumb question about the Ottoman Empire’s dissolution. Were (/are?) there any major population centers of Turks in the far flung reaches of the Empire when it politically dissolved? Or were there just small groups of administrators who ran back to Turkey? (Or perhaps, if as Gingeras says it wasn’t so much a racialized nationalism then, the imperial administrators were locals?) I guess it wasn’t a settler kind of situation, but was there much Turkish intermingling or Turkish ‘colonies’ or (less loaded word) communities in the outer empire?
Welcome to the Turkic worldview, whereby everyone from Slovenians to Xinjiang Muslims are considered Turkish: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples
Looking forward v much to this series
Love chapo grateful for their work, but compared to what RWN provides, yall deserve their number of subscribers. I hope one day everyone at RWN becomes millionaires because you all deserve it. I am forever grateful for your work.
Well, Chapo Trap House are just kids. Ames and Dolan already did tons of projects before RWN. I don't know how wide an audience the eXile ever got, but the global elite paid attention to their journalism (like that time Ames's article about the Ambani brothers was used to sparked massive riots in India), and Putin did ultimately shut them down. Not sure what Ames and Dolan's financial situations are like, but they're already way more accomplished and notorious than the Chapo boys, for whatever that's worth. Like, Chapo just makes fun of wretched journalists, academics, and op-ed writers. Ames (or his associates) threw horse sperm pies into their faces.
War Nerd tonight let's gooo
Dude sounds like bizarro Jordan Peterson
aw be nice. he doesn’t have the essential Kermit the Frog characteristics that make Peterson so goofy
thank you
Oh fuck yes
This is great
Let’s go!!!!!
Hell yeah, dude
