Who is the TRUE hero?
When I first read The Lord Of The Rings, my dad told me that Sam was the REAL hero. But what does HE know?
I think this is one of the most interesting debates in literature, so let's get into it. Would love to hear people's take on this one.
Comments (27)
It would be cool to see a video on a book that inspired Tolkien - Dealings with Fairies by George MacDonald . There is also some interesting art in the book!
So many great comments and discussions already, but I wanted to point out that the book Sam was in on a secret plan to help Frodo leave The Shire. He wasn't quite as forced as in the movie. Likewise, Merry and Pippen were LOOKING for Frodo and Sam, not just running into him at random. It would have been so easy to do this in the movie, too; just have them suspect something big was up and choose to help their friends succeed. The book (and the movie) are filled with heroes, although Frodo took up a lot more mantles, leading to others heroically joining in to support him.
You know, I had totally forgotten about that early part of the story, which is weird cause I recently re-read it. I think sometimes my memory of the book and the movie interfere with each other lol
Ha! I really enjoyed the tone of this video 😊 I second that Frodo is definitely the hero. But ☝️ Even though I do care for Frodo throughout the story and I'm constantly tense when something get in his way and worried and pitiful when he's hurt and feels desperate, the thing is that I don't really like him. Sam is the one that gets my simpaty... And Smigol too 😬 I must say that I usually tend to be more attached to side characters rather than the protagonist 🤷🏻♀️ probably because I feel like I am one of the side characters of the great adventure that the people I love are living 🤔 The thing is that the hero needs help to accomplish the challenging task he is faced with...
Good point, that last one! Modern western mythmaking tends to concentrate on single heroes; becoming aware of that tendency can affect many different fields, such as "Nobel Prize's three-person rule perpetuates 'lone genius' myth ... iIn 1901, individual scientists working with small assistants were common; today, science relies on massive global networks."
OOF Warner Brothers claimed all the revenue for this video on YouTube. Makes me sick. This video is absolutely protected by fair use, but there is no recourse. Makes me appreciate y'all even more.
What? That's shameful. These videos do nothing but make people want to go watch the movies!
At times like this, I consult the Rankin/Bass animated Return of the King film to see which character’s theme song slaps harder: “Frodo of the Nine Fingers (and the Ring of Doom)” or “Samwise the Brave”?
Glad to see someone with a rigorous intellectual process
If you/we take a point from Sam for being mean to Gollum/Smeagol, we must take a point from Frodo for saying that he wished Bilbo had killed Gollum when he had the chance. Different question: should Author Intent count when evaluating a story from an archetype/mythic POV? Certainly none of the stories that Campbell used to create his understanding came with an author perspective attached, because all of that had been lost to time before Campbell was writing— and even if it *had* been preserved, it would need to encompass the POV of all the storytellers who embroidered more into the stories down through the centuries.
Damn - that's a deep question. Probably beyond the scope of my knowledge to answer. I hadn't considered that "authorship" has that sort of complexity when you're looking at ancient myth, but of course you're absolutely right. I've been meaning to look more into ancient stuff on the channel – thinking Gilgamesh at some point soon. So maybe I'll discuss there.
Well done. Have to ultimately concur, but it's a wonderful debate and closer than many think...
Great analysis. I wonder when that letter is from exactly. I know there was a period of time that Tolkien considered having Sam tackle Gollum into the fire. In that case it would be pretty clear that he would be the primary hero in the story. Frodo carried the ring all the way to the crack of doom, we don’t know that anyone else would have been capable of doing this. I think it’s brilliant that Tolkien ultimately decided that he should fail to destroy it and that an act of fate would cause Gollum to fall. The point is that even the greatest heroes are not beyond corruption. Frodo couldn’t possibly destroy the ring but it didn’t matter because his task really was just to get it to the place it was created. Tolkien was an officer in the Great War and he based Sam on the lower ranking soldiers he served with. Sam is the everyman, the regular person put into an extraordinary circumstance and rising to the occasion. Tolkien said that he considered these men superior to himself. I think this is one of the things that makes Tolkien’s work so brilliant. He did a great job of portraying the complexities of his world view through these characters.
Oh interesting - so Tolkien kinda misremembered some parts of what he wrote? Maybe was recalling alternative versions he had written?
Superheroes and Greek Tragedy: Comparing Cultural Icons (available on archive.org) The Classics Professor author of this academic work, my late life partner Sally MacEwen, would argue that both are heroes in separate aspects of Tokien's spheres of cultural reference. Sam was the classical greek hero founded in loyalty to family. Frodo the modern Englishman hero of stiff upper lip forbearance. Campbell is all well and good, but he really missed the boat in failing to acknowledge that cultural context is essential in defining WHAT traits actually make someone a hero. Neither Sam nor Frodo is heroic in the context of modern western culture, where the hero must be an outsider.
Hmmm, lots to think about. Thanks for sharing this. I'm always interested in hearing more from people who've done more rigorous study on this subject
Hmmm, while this isn't exactly how I initially interpreted Campbell when I read Hero With the Thousand Faces, I always thought that there is a "spiritual" aspect of heroism (as a kind of "extra-natural" force that guides "the hero" (of every story), a bit like the potion Felix Felicis does with Harry Potter. In LOTR, there are a lot of allusions to these forces at work, and as such, I always felt that in this particular story, the hero is really not so much a character but a "spirit" of some kind -- it is that spirit that is, for instance, speaking through Gandalf when he informs Frodo that hobbit (and human) judgment is too shortsighted to pierce fully into the darkness, and that a true hero must thus precisely be willing to follow this spirit into the unknown (the calling). Without this spirit, it's more like "an idiot's journey into hell" (because without that guiding spirit, there is no escape from that place)...
Interesting. So do you see Gandalf as the primary manifestation of that spirit? There are so many other places you could find the presence of spiritualism in the story, hard to pick.
Really fascinating debate and I love how you covered the different theories (even if I'm nerd-confused by your choice of Orthanc as the point marker). There's a whole other perspective if you consider the meta-text of LotR, which is that the bulk of it was "written" by Frodo and the final chapters by Sam, so they are putting themselves and/or each other in a heroic light as they third-person narrate the action. I was pleased you mentioned class as well - this is often difficult to "get" from a different cultural background (and also quite difficult almost a century on in the UK as well). Tolkien wrote about Sam as the typical working-class 'batman' to a middle or upper-class officer in WWI, and thus his "journey" to become one of the greats of the Third Age is more significant than the aristocratic Frodo's. Sam is the only working class member of the Fellowship, so in classic literary terms he is not "expected" to perform noble deeds, and it can be seen as a greater mark of courage and inherent goodness when he does. Final thought, there are some interesting lines in "The Scouring of the Shire" where Sam is disappointed that most hobbits disregard Frodo, instead praising Merry and Pippin as the more visible "heroes" for how they won the Battle of Bywater and go about in their armour on horseback, while Frodo stays quietly at home, suffering. I love these final chapters, for how Frodo almost fades away before he even departs - it's the price of his heroism that his heroism is forgotten. Great video! Would love more deep dives into Middle-earth.
I'll have to re-read Scouring Of The Shire - I sometimes forget about those last few moments in the story but they're actually really interesting when you dig into it. Could be a video
I would love to have you take a look at LORTO aka Lord of the Rings Online. The storytelling is epic, you feel like you are the one helping get Frodo to Mount Doom. I like starting in the Shire, but you can play with very little combat. HMU if you would like to discuss.
Could be interesting but I don't have a PC! Just a little M5 Macbook Air
Fun video! I might be wrong here, but if memory serves, Frodo never has visions of his own power or greatness when wearing the ring. But Sam does experience such a vision. So it seems clear that Sam did not have the ability to get the ring to edge of the Cracks of Doom as Frodo did. So I’ll go with Frodo. Side note: When taking Ep 1-6 into account, I’ve never felt Anakin is the hero. He’s barely the protagonist of the PT, and he’s never really a hero. In 4-6, Luke is clearly the protagonist and hero, and Vader/Anakin’s role really only exists to juxtapose and emphasize Luke’s journey. Just my take.
This is a good point but Sam also took possession of the ring in Mordor where the effects of the ring were stronger. The closer they get to Sauron the heavier the burden becomes. Remember that Bilbo possessed the ring for a very long time with relatively few effects. The reason the power of the ring grows so much on Frodo through the course of the story is that he is getting closer and closer to Mordor.
Well done. Maybe it isn’t one hero or two heroes. Maybe it’s a combined hero. Maybe Tolkien purposely crafted this balance between our heroes to emphasize the necessity of friendship and interdependence and the mutual commitment that’s needed to overcome the biggest, darkest antagonists 🤔
The real hero is the friends we made along the way.
What a rollercoaster! I have always declared Sam the true hero, but your argument about agency won me over.