On leaving WWI
Sorry to double up but I keep forgetting to make this point.
I have about a terabyte of historical footage and images all geared towards WWI and firearms from our short list. Basically, since the beginning of this project whenever I go archive digging I haul in anything that I can identify as potentially useful in the future. Easily I have 400 hours + in this.
Whatever I find, wherever I find it, I can use it because it is in the public domain. The hosts usually have all sorts of threats or usage agreements but they are unenforceable before 1923.
In order to do any episode of a weapon post 1923, I will:
A: Have to build a new archive from scratch.
B: Absolutely prove who owns the material I use.
These two points cancel the benefit of easier access to later firearms and ammunition. Especially if I get the ownership wrong and we face a take-down or even lawsuit.
Leaving WWI will be tricky and I've started to amass an image and video collection slowly but basically only US government stuff is safe to use, which means few images of foreign weapons. Working up one hour plus episodes with 0 historical images is a bit tricky. We also will not be able to afford music licensing so all period music will be dropped from those episodes.
This is something I'm going to have to face down eventually and it will likely require a re-tooling of the show's core format to even achieve. So adding it now is actually MORE work by far. I honestly expect to need a month or two to shift the show out of the war and it will likely hit viewership and patron support when it happens.
TL:DR Anything after 1923 means I have to create a new material archive, triple check ownership, and likely redesign the show in fundamental ways. It is best reserved for after we have covered as many WWI firearms as humanly possible.
Comments (50)
I also am joining the "we have to go back" bandwagon. WWI was fascinating, and I'm sure WWII would be as well, but, as you've noted, it's a lot easier for media purposes to go backwards rather than forwards. Plus I'd watch any of the following in a heartbeat: Small Arms of the Middle Ages Primer Small Arms of the Renaissance Primer Small Arms of Colonial America Primer Small Arms of the American Revolutionary War Primer Small Arms of the Napoleonic Wars Primer Small Arms of the American Frontier Primer Small Arms of the American Civil War Primer Small Arms of the Victorian Era Primer
What about wars in other countries? I mean wars didn’t start with WW1.
No, but globe-spanning, multiple-allies wars did. Think how much less interesting WW1 would be if it was solely a Germany-France dustup? Considerably less diversity of weapons for C&Rsenal to cover and reveal for us, no?
I know I have e-mailed you about this before, but I am willing to help out where I can. Particularly in regards to World War II US stuff as I have scanned at the National Archives numerous photographs at the National Archives in College Park.
Thank you!
As far as the music goes, what about using period sheet music & employing some local high school/college/freelance musicians to record your own music? No licensing issues if it's your own performance, right? And as the answer to "What's next?" might I suggest the transition period from front-loaders to cartridge breech-loaders? A fascinating period, and while the difficulty of sourcing the firearms will be high, you can use repros where available to show what shooting those charcoal burners was really like [a la' Cap&Ball channel, but w/ your own unique twist.]
Re: the music. I was wondering the very same thing. Hell, most musicians would do it for beer and ramen noodles. As to the what next I'd also rather go back in time. Let's say 1861-1865. In America...
Maybe one on arms used with the underground railroad.
I agree with Scott Hancock. I've always been interested in how the USA got from the Trapdoor Rifle to the 1903 as a series.
Do you plan to do arms from countries of the WWI time period that we’re neutral during WWI? (Swedish mausers, Schmidt rubins, all those South American / Central American mausers). So many conflicts and wars between carteidge firearms and WWI you could do a few offshoots (Spanish American, boer, colonialism, etc). Seems like this could keep you busy enough for years before needing to move post 1923.
Yes, these are planned to fill the gaps that start to form when we run out of WWI participant guns
How about doing Civil war to WWI? Lots of interesting firearms, no copyright issues and we know Mae has the hat!
Being in Charleston SC, we are at the heart of some excellent Civil War collections, so this will be done.
When it comes to music, why not just use national anthems played by US military bands (and they have played many nations' anthems)? National anthems are public domain as well as anything played by the US military bands. Not period music, but something you can plug in there in most cases.
A useful tip!
If you do get into WW2, perhaps you could put up a running list of photos you're looking for here or on FB? A lot of us might have photos in personal archives which you could use, but without knowing in advance what to look for we can't find them.
As much as I would like you to go into WW2, if you choose not to I would be perfectly fine. The logistics and costs would be horrendous as you said and as others have said, there are other areas of history you can cover. And given your show format I would gobble such stuff up anyway.
I'm going to join the chorus of 'go back' - there are dozens of interesting firearms in the time period between the American Civil War and WW1. Giving Winchester lever actions, Colt revolvers, and early pump and semiauto civilian rifles and shotguns the C&Rsenal treatment would be a good move. I imagine those guns would be relatively easy for you to manage, popular beyond your existing view base, and would compliment your WW1 content nicely.
I'm with the other folks voting for going backwards in time from WWI. WWII seams like the obvious next step but like someone else said, there's already a lot of information out there. I'd vote for old west guns. There's tons of information on Colt and Winchester but much less on the makers of the time. The American Revolution would be fascinating as well, though that comes with it's own difficulties.
I think there are more safe scources than just the US gov. :) For stuff related to Germany, you could try the "Bundesarchiv" (It's the federal archive here). I did a quick google and here is a english language link: <a href="https://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/index.php?switch_lang=en" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/index.php?switch_lang=en</a> I am sure there are many more scources that can be used safely (in a legal sense). Altough i never did this kind of research, so i can't really offer much help in finding them :)
Bundesarchiv reserves rights. This was a sticking point that ultimately saw us walk from the Great War WWII project.
Backward in time might be a good idea, as previously suggested. You've already tempted me with all the older weapons you brought up in your pre-WW1 historical backgrounds for WW1. I realize that going backwards may limit you to many weapons you won't be allowed to fire, but that is simply the way it is. These are antiques, and the owners are going to be very reluctant to take risks with them.
Archive.org is your friend.
Yes but sadly limited. Currently I work from about 5 big archives but only 2 are technically copyright free.
I would keep to what works well so far, i.e. WW1, for the reasons you mention :-) It's a pity our culture/society of trying to monetize everything is such a hindrance to genuine "lay" enthusiasts. Thanks again for all the great work and enormous efforts!
No more original music wil by a little sad but to ave the show continue is ok; I will love You explaining the development of semi-auto rifle in the '30 but we have also Gatling, Gardner, Nordenfeld, all the needle, etc.. Keep the great job!
After working on the Maxim gun, I want nothing more than to film the Nordenfelt, Gardner, Gatling, etc in detail.
I've just perused the comments section. I wonder if we aren't all just a little nuts lol. We are kind of an Echo Chamber because we know what's neat about historical firearms, what's possible to review and what has really great, interesting historical provenance. But this channel needs the other not so hip folks out there to pay attention and "pay" for the channel to grow so that means WW2 sadly.
Well frankly, and I know I'm in the minority here, I'm not much of a post WW2 gun nut. I much prefer my weapons history and all history from about 1919 and back. This is just my stance on all of historical analysis. So if you decide to go BACKWARDS and not forwards I'm perfectly happy with that. But I do know everyone wants you to move on to WWII because of the big WWII project and just because everyone's a war nut, (well I am too so hi bros ). But I'm just saying if you decide to dip into 19th Century stuff I would be all for that and that would alleviate your potential legal dilemmas. As awlays though I'm fine with anything you decide Othias you are the man... you really are.
When we leave WWI, we expect to go in all directions, really randomize
I really love the idea of you guys moving earlier on in the years. While WW2 is my favorite time period overall, there is so much easily accessible information out there for that period of history. Id love to see you guys delve even more deeply into the evolution of black powder firearms
I'm looking forward to stuff like this <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_K_machine_gun" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_K_machine_gun</a> but how you'll get hold of it, which I've never even seen on Forgotten Weapon, I've no idea. A big plus of C&Rsenal, and Ian's show, is the honesty and transparency. When you can't get hold of stuff you explain why which also adds to the historical record. Don't lose that.
Seeing the end of the period music is very sad but thanks a lot for having the care to go out there and source it. I don’t know where you got the obscure stuff from, that might be worth an episode in itself This song I think you used for Mae’s SMLE demonstration <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Little_Bit_of_Cucumber" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Little_Bit_of_Cucumber</a> I’d forgotten my Nana and my grandfather (served in RN in both wars) used to sing this to me in the early 1970s. Thanks for that. The original music you use on the show from The Moon and You is excellent though, I’m sure they can come up with something reminiscent of the roaring 20s
On that note, when you do, I have a gun you may be interested in borrowing, which you certainly can if you want. It's a Geha 12 gauge conversion of a 98 Mauser. I think it sums up that part of history quite nicely; Germany has a bunch of rifles that they should get rid of, but the market is flooded and demand is low. To make the best of that and their out of work gunsmiths, as well as using what they learned about Americans and shotguns, the 12 gauge conversion just makes sense. Definitely could keep a few people from starving in the post-war economy.
I also vote for other pre-WW I stuff, including nations not involved in the Great War (how did Mauser sell all those guns to Central and South America?) and other conflicts (colonial wars, the Balkan Wars, the Russian Revolution, the Russo-Japanese War, the Spanish-American War, the Sino-Japanese War, perhaps even the Franco-Prussian and Austro-Prussian Wars. Or a focus on the development of a weapon over time, without reference to a particular conflict. I recognize that some of this would involve rehashing background material for WW I, but I'd be OK with that. I also think that fair use is worth exploring. I get it that Youtube is super sensitive to intellectual property issues at the moment, but I live in hope that this will ease or that other more accommodating (perhaps more academically oriented) channels will appear.
Of course you could always do the cronicles of Roth. Might not be as long but way more amusing I bet.
What about becoming the Johnny B (John Moses Browning) channel for a bit between the things he made originally or left hanging such as the Hi Power you should be able to stretch that one for a long and productive history segment.
oh I like that approach and there are a lot of gun inventors that can be covered the same way from the 19th century and that means of course no legal issues.
I like the idea and think it makes the most sense. I certainly don't want to loose the shooting or maeversation but adding them when you get the guns makes sense.
I really love what you all do. Could you possibly get extras out mark to keep videos up while you retool for post 1923?
Or you could work in covering other things which are pre 1923 and not caught up in WW1? I'm not certain how large a pool that is, but it would presumably still add to WW1 and maybe give you a bit of breathing room without you having to deal with quite so much retooling (probably still a bit, but what can you do). Possibly giving you some time to look into how you're going to do post 1923 stuff, and stretch out/ alleviate the pressure on the rarer ww1 guns. Food for thought.
So you could not only do WW1 adjacent weapons, but in some cases work on earlier guns that just weren't used even in second or third line duty during the war or were primarily civilian. Maybe that were used in any number of the other/ smaller conflicts in the latter part of the 1800's and early 1900's, or in the American West, though again my knowledge is not comprehensive enough to be able to say how big a pool that is.
I have great confidence in your current and future success.
What about using WWI adjacent weapons to fill things out as WWI gets harder (maybe going to every other episode being WWI). Swiss straight pulls, rifes that competed unsuccessfully with the ones you have done, predecessors or offshoots, etc?
Yes, this is in the plan. Basically, as the WWI stuff gets spotty, we can use neutral powers to fill the gaps
It's also possible that you're ground breaking the landmark for using the internet and video for academic research, a world where you can use anyone else's stuff as long as you give credit in the citations.
I believe we have a path under "education" but do not forget our medium is an incredibly over sensitive, business-favoring, video hosting site. The short answer is it requires hard work and experimentation with some risk. All things I can handle as a small business owner, but by no means "easy." We will get there, I just know a lot of people say "do WWII so that it is easier for you," and sadly nothing ever is.
The archival material is gravy but your excellent historic research is the meal. We'll stick around for seconds.
There has to be a lawyer in the crowd that can advise on "fair use," which I would think would allow you to use exerpt / selections without copyright issues.
It is possible and we have considered it. Just need to find the right person and pay the right price. For now we also face the problem of YouTube over-reacting to even just plain claims. Again, we can and will fight when the time comes but it is better to do so when we are bigger and better oiled.