How to rewrite a mod like LL:E to make sense. A.k.a. An unwinnable scenario
So one thing I've always wanted to do since I took on the mantle of Lustier Lair from Halftilt was a complete top-to-bottom rewrite of the mod. Many parts of the mod were silly, and overpornified to the point of absolute ridiculousness, which isn't really hot for me. What I got most out of Lustiest Lair was the idea of the very world around the heroines being absolutely and overwhelmingly perverted, and slowly falling into corruption as a result.
The writing of Lustiest Lair in its current state is, quite frankly, not up to my standard. I simply do not like it, and a compete re-do has been rattling around in the back of my mind for some time.
Here's the problem, though:
I'm damned no matter what I do.
Hip-hip, hoor-uuggh.
I made a poll some time ago asking what direction to take LL:E's writing in, and the worst possible result came back: A damn-nearly 50/50 split.
Fuck.
I had the deepest hopes that there would be at least be a slight lean in one particular direction so I knew the direction to take the mod which would upset the least amount of people, but a 50/50? That means I'm fucked either way.
Essentially to improve the writing of LL:E there are only two feasible directions it can go:
Lean hard into how silly the mod is, and essentially make it a comedy H-mod. That's the mod's unique strength, and to be fair it'd turn LL:E into something truly unique. After all, have you ever heard of a comedy H-mod? I certainly haven't. I'd be the first, a pioneer.
OR
Rein LL:E's silliness back in and turn it into my original vision for the mod: A story about recruiting a band of heroines to defeat an ancient and lascivious evil that has corrupted the world around them, trying to avoid having your girls enslaved or captured or corrupted themselves along the way. A more down-to-earth tale.
The original LL seemed to be unintentionally doing the first, using hilarious porn logic tropes that would be fit for an 80s comedy porn parody of Darkest Dungeon.
Not that I'd mind making a mod that's the H-mod equivalent of 'Lemon Stealing Whore'
I've had a not insignificant number of people complaining about me 'delewdifying' the game. I've had a not insignificant number of people complaining about the game being too silly and overpornified.
I am now more excruciatingly aware than ever of how much I can't win here, so let's count some major factors in deciding:
No matter what I make, and no matter what LL:E becomes, previous versions will always be available. I don't remove them from Nexus when I add new ones. If the writing goes in a direction you don't like there will always be the previous versions to play.
I have to make what I would personally enjoy playing, otherwise I will lose all passion for the project and LL:E would just die anyway so what's the point of forcing other people's expectations onto myself?
Anyone is welcome to change the writing of LL:E for themselves. I'm actually putting a lot of work into refactoring the localisation files, making everything nice and clean and sorted and labelled with lots of helpful comment lines. This means it'll be easier to do.
With these three factors in mind, I think I've come a simple conclusion, which is:
Fuck it, I'll do what I want.
Yee-fuckin'-haw
No good creative work is designed by committee. A strong vision gets a strong result. If you like what I've been doing with content like The Workshop, I'd like to invite you to trust that what I make in future won't be shit.
So here's what's happening:
LL:E will be delewdified to an extent. Heroine dialogue will be made a bit more sensible, but they will still react to the world lustfully if it makes them horny. Some characters are inherently hornier than others simply because of their unique personalities. The Vestal, for instance, might seem frigid but just like the base game she's harbouring simmering perversion beneath the surface that will be reflected in her dialogue.
Instead of every monster having attacks with sex names that make no sense, monsters will have lewd attacks on top of normal attacks. (For example, Brigand Blood is getting a grab and a bukkake attack, but can still whip and hurt your girls. Brigand Fusilier is going back to shooting bullets at your girls, but can also pull her tits out to flash and arouse them).
The perverseness of trinkets is going nowhere. You can still truss your gals up in bondage equipment.
Cum is being turned back into Food. However, Cum will still be available as a provision item you can take along on your journeys, giving a small amount of healing in trade for a hit to stress (Lust). Your heroines will react to this with disgust or perverse glee, depending on their personalities.
The entire dialogue system is being reworked so that there won't be many generic lines any more - each heroines class will have specific things to say about specific actions to give greater characterisation to each gal. This means Lustiest Lair Expanded will have more writing in it than Darkest Dungeon itself.
Every heroine is getting specific dialogue for each affliction when they hit 100 Lust, and all the afflictions will be different types of horniness:
Sadistic
Masochistic
Insatiable
Submissive
Impulsive
Hedonistic
Depraved
Broody
Hypnotised (only when brought to 100 by specific CoM enemies)
Everything will make just a little more sense than it does now.
I hope this has cleared up some things.
Please be kind, I'm trying my best.
With love,
Your Ancestress
Comments (53)
Im down for simplifying whats going on to make the story darker. Its hard to follow as a new player (10 years late) on what is actually going on mechanic-wise because how over the top it feels at some points. Plus LLE still allows you to add other mods to fix what you as the player feel is lacking. I look forward to seeing what you can do, the workshop was an excellent addition that I honestly thought was already part of the game with it being lewded by LLE, including the dollmaid being perfect.
Glad you liked it all! I was going for a soft-horror vibe with the workshop :>
I know I'm two months late to the party on this post, but I just wanted to express how happy I am this is the direction you've decided to go. While the goofier aspects of LL can be endearing at times, overall I'll always find a more grounded story much more enjoyable and often found myself (in the few weeks between getting into 1.8 and subbing to the Patreon) thinking that my one complaint was how much more I'd enjoy the mod as a story of corruption and struggle rather than just being a comedy fuckfest that's occasionally EXTREMELY dissonant. Another benefit to this, at least in my view, is that it makes it slightly less jarring to use hero mods that haven't had specific conversion patches for LL. Anyway, love what you do, happy to support!
I hope you're enjoying the newer patches! 1.83 has changed a lot of the writing already!
Lemme tell ya something, I bought DD just to play your mod. I love it. Keep up the goodwork and don't listen to others hate. After all, this is your passion project. Love ya mod. (thumbs up emoji)
真实感加入一点色情元素，这就是我想要的
我很高兴你喜欢它！
I support your decision and the direction you want to take the project ✨️ 👌
I completely agree with your vision
If it is possible to tie dialogue to lust level/affliction: going that route will be great. Heroines will start innocent (or at least as innocent as possible) then fall into corruption along the way. Many h-games do that and I often see "corruption mechanic?" question when new one is released into western market. Question is - does engine allow for that?
I'm a user who's been interested in your LLE since Mimic first appeared a long time ago. I'm not familiar with English, so I'm so impressed with your project that I'm always playing with a translator when I'm playing games. Your project direction is going straight, so I hope you can continue your passion and complete your LLE project more completely. And if I can afford it in the future, I'd like to translate your project.
Making something that diverges from your interests is the quickest way for passion to dry up. With longrunning, semiprofessional projects like this that are largely driven by that passion, I will always stand by pursuing what YOU want to make as the correct decision, even if it's not what I want. Luckily in this case, it is what I want.
So, you will just make things to your liking, it will be more cohesive and won't be lewd for the sake of being lewd. I honestly don't mind that, I actually like it. At least if I am understanding right, exemple: You will still need to do the things in the abbey to remove ailments, but how you got those ailments will be more satisfying on how you got them, instead of just being randomly and silly. Also what exactly means delewdified?
I am a fairly recent enjoyer of this mod so I can't really comment on the development history beyond the current and previous versions. That said I like what I'm reading in your rough outline. The Workshop is a great bit of content, if I ignore the Dancer being a dirty slag that makes my chungus life harder than I want it to. If that's the direction you want to move towards, I'd support it wholeheartedly.
Pffffhahaha
Don't think too hard about it, it's a fantasy :)
It is literally my job to think too hard about it! 😂 Thats how we end up with something great!
Hi author, first of all, I hope you have fully recovered from your surgery~ After reading about your dilemma, I just want to say that keeping LL alive is already a massive achievement of yours. I truly think you should just do whatever you want—burning through all your passion and letting the project fall apart again would be the absolute worst outcome. Lastly, here are a few thoughts of my own: making the dialogue for each hero more unique is definitely a fantastic idea. I'm actually working on a translation mod for LL myself, and during the process, I did feel like the current hero lines lack a bit of variety (though the Vestal and Abomination do have some unique dialogue). As for the other fundamental mechanic changes, maybe introducing them gradually in future updates would make them easier for players to accept? You can pave your own path for LL, starting from where it originally began. No matter what you decide in the end, you have my utmost respect.
I have worries, but I'll defer to your plans as they come to fruition. Biggest one? Realism takes priority such that a novel is trying to be written over the challenging, lewd, and fun game it used to be
?? Changing the writing does not affect gameplay
I'd be happy with either, but I prefer your vision
I just recently finished darkest dungeon with lustiest lair expanded installed, and I'll admit. I think I might spend another week playing the game if you add more dialogue variation to the characters. I am a sucker for dialogue, especially dialogues that are varied for each character. I am the kind of person to spend an hour reading character dialogues so this decision to make new/ rewrite dialogue is making me excited for the future of this mod! I wish you good luck with the development of this mod and I would also like to congratulate you on the amazing work that you and your team did so far. Thank you for working hard!
Oh you're gonna love 1.9 cos everyone is getting way more dialogue!
Honestly I think its a great Idea, Ive always felt like making the mod less silly would make it way hotter, One idea that always pops up is that instead of the EXP being called determination it could be labeled "Lewdness" so as they grow stronger also more corrupted, also I dont know if it'd be possible to make their dialogue become more perversed as their levele up but that would be awesome to see as well, either way re writting LL its a monumental task, wishing you all the best luck through it!
Ye ! Do what you want bro is your mod After all. Don't loose pleasure to make it 👍
I have nothing to add to previous commentaries, except further support. You can't write good stuff if you don't like the subject matter and tone : look any recent Star wars movie or series. Go on and unleash your inspiration!
honestly probably the best outcome in general and i can respect the direction you are taking the mod
I want to say thanks for your dedicated work. Your passion breathes new life into one of my favorite games ever made. As someone who likes both sides of the conversation, I want to suggest making a separate mod? Having old files is fine, but if someone new is coming along and wants a porn-tastic experience, they wouldn't know where to go. A "this is the over-the-top smut version" might be easier to clarify. I know it's a lot, but if content like a monster that fits both settings comes out, it could be added to both versions so that that side isn't stagnant or forgotten. I would personally just work on one mod, but I just wanted to throw it out there as a possibility. Thanks again!
I'm not interested in doubling my workload to maintain two different mods. I like to keep things as simple as possible and focus on quality and depth rather and breadth. if I kept two versions of the mod, it would effectively mean I have to write everything twice whenever new content is made. Remembering point 3: If someone wants to make that, they can go ahead!
Well at the end of the day it's your mod and your vision. I'm cool with either direction you take. I also have a feeling a lot of people are similar in thinking that. Make the mod how you want it!😁
The 50/50 split was both the worst and best result out of this. Like the other comments said below, passion above all else. If the mod makers aren’t passionate about the mod, then we’re looking at a gradual death where no one ends up happy. All in all I’m really impressed with the level of quality of this mod and fully on board where you’ll take its future content, especially with the new upcoming additional dialogue. Cheers and wish you and the team the best!
Really love all of what you're saying here. Honestly, the base attacks of base monster going back to normal and then having lewd attacks on top of that is really good. like 80% of them are just silly names regardless with no actual lewd change to the attack. While probably not within the scope of this update, giving most monster a lewd attack alongside their normal attack would be amazing. Only problem I can see happening is a bit of a disconnect happening if you have female monster skins on, like xelswords.
LLE is intended to be an all-in-one experience. Any other mods folks add are at their own risks and with their own setups :)
I am glad to read this because you vocalized one of the reasons I can not play this mod alot. I love a lot of the things in it, yet over-optimized is how I would describe it. Like, why is the crusader hitting with a sword the name it is? It is hard to understand what attack is with the porn name. The food being cum helps you and is needed yet when you get attacked with it it hurts. Why so turning it back into food makes sense to me. The only thing I would like is if the player attacks and descriptions are looked at in the same lense because some of them are too confuseing now
Don't worry, everything will go back to making sense soon :)
When it comes to a 50/50 split I always say the creator always gets the final vote because if you are not making something you enjoy then what's the point. The old saying of "if you try to please everyone then you end up pleasing no one" rings true, I say go in the direction you want and the rest will fallow.
Absolutely divine :3
Oh ok this cleared some worries for me. This sounds more like "Lustiest Lair with more grounded settings", not "Darkest Dungeon with hints of grappling and sex mechanics" I was concerned of. And old versions are not going anywhere. Good to hear, thank you, and sorry for personally being that 50/50 headache for you in the last post. I may have to reread that 1.9 feature lists now... Anyways, I like the kinks you put in LL:E, and I agree that strong visions do give strong results. I trust you on the wheel. Do what you must!
Love it. Weather or not the direction you chose alligns with mine (and others) is less relevant when taking into account that you forcing yourself to take a path you dislike would kill the quality of the work (and your drive to do it) luckily i happen to allign with your choice of direction anyhow, so win win XD
For me personally, this is the only way for me to play DD, the original is too stress inducing for me and the lewdness makes it more manageable for me. While I’m on the side of making it more porn-y, I’m open to it being more grounded and less comedic, and am glad you’re going in you’re own direction for creatives sake. Keep up the good work, looking forward to what comes next!
I have been flowing this project since the beginning before you took over and the amount of passion you poured into it is inspiring and I look like forward to this the future prospects you have for it.
I support all of this! Passion is the #1 source of fuel for projects like this one
I've only started supporting the project very recently, so I've never seen the poll in question. Still, if the results were really an even 50/50 split, it makes perfect sense for you to simply go for the result you prefer. Someone who enjoys what they're doing will always produce better quality that someone who doesn't, and you're pleasing the same number of people either way. Previous versions still being available is also a nice touch.
"I have to make what I would personally enjoy playing, otherwise I will lose all passion for the project and LL:E would just die anyway so what's the point of forcing other people's expectations onto myself?" 200% fair It's right that you enjoy what you do and don't worry about the opinions of others; don't let it cause you anxiety.
That's very kind of you. It's been worrying me lately!
Honestly, it's a good middle ground. Like you said, it's no use doing what others want you to do only for you to get a burn out and lose all passion or LL:E will die just like the original LL. In the end, you were the one who chose to revive the mod and we are the ones profiting from it. We're paying (for those who do), so it is alright to take our liking into account but in the end, you are the one doing the work, so you will always have the last word and those discontent can either do it themselves or cry about it.
I appreciate that consideration ♥ It's my greatest hope that the stuff I like will also be what y'all enjoy.
Second, burnout is real and I want you to enjoy the project. You could find a nice pause point and leave the silly version here as a legacy. Then wright a more "immersive version". I like slow corruption and I think it makes sense in this setting. I go through crazy hoops to mod skyrim so that everyone wears bikini armor or lewd clothes because thar makes more sense to me than just the dragonborn running around like a weirdo. Do what makes you happy.
All previous version of LL:E will remain available. They don't go away. Folks who want to retain the writing as-is can stick with 1.8
Passion over people pleasing, every time (except when starving)
You have been working on this passion project for years now and you have been doing an amazing job. Let's that be the first thought.
I'm honestly happy that you'd do what you want, nothing made out of obligation is going to be as good as something made with passion
That's an excellent way of phrasing it that I wish I'd thought of myself. Thank you!