Fireside Chat for WWW ep39 “Into the Woods”
Ame. Ame, baby. Ame bubby. Phone rings, door chimes, in pods companyyyy. Yes that’s right, in lieu (Lou) of a fireside chat, this week, the gang welcomes a theatre veteran to stage a full hour Sondheim review. All singing! All Dancing! All skipping the second act of Sunday in the Park with George! (Don’t @ me).
Comments (99)
NO, YOU'RE CRYING AT YOUR DESK AT WORK LISTENING TO AME TALK TO THE HORSES!
Eursulon’s new spell should be called “Soil Thine Self” I love the production you guys have and the story telling is S+ tier! I enjoy every moment of catching up since I just found you all like a month ago.
Well fuck, I didn't even pick up on Worth's creepiness. Then again I don't think I was psying close sttention at the time, cuz I was driving at the tome and that took priority, but damn.
I was an infantryman in the army in like 2010 and truly Brennans depiction of dumbass infantryman is so true to life it’s funny. Met some of the best people in the army but also met some of the worst.
Catching up on the fireside, and I have to say I really appreciated Lou's (sorry, Gary's) articulation of Eursulons glamour. I'm part of an ethnic minority that is often the target of slurs and violence and it super hit home for me as I hide this part of my identity a lot due to the danger. It sucks but it's pragmatic - it's like, yeah in order to achieve my other objectives in life sometimes you have to be stealth.
Idk why it didn't stick out to ne until this episode but now that it has I am reeling with how good of a metaphor the glamour is for being closeted. Maybe it was the way he regretfully had to reassume it in this arc but DAMN.
Have you watched ACOFAF? If you haven't, I don't want to spoil anything, but that exact metaphor is present in the narrative as well. Highly recommend watching <3 There are several scenes that made me fully cry (mostly tears of happiness tho :) )
I do not know if this is the right episode (I'm way behind), but as someone in a helping profession these days, Souvi's speech just killed me: We'll continue forward, in the hopes that our actions save lives, now or later. Because all of us, we put one foot in front of the other on the belief that what we are fighting for - what we are protecting, what we are bringing forth to the future - will flourish because of our care, and effort, and blood. Thank you for what you have given, and thank you for what you are giving. *me sobbing in the background*
Gary Mozzarella, Gary Mozzarella, Gary Mozzarella that's the guy who knew me when
I’m so glad you tried to hunt before considering eating the horses. I was out here wondering why that didn’t cross y’all’s minds hahaha
It hurt my feelings when Brennan said "we're dumb as hell" in a stereotypical southern accent. I understand being salty with us for a lot of things. I'm salty with us, too. But there's a percentage of us that have to live somewhere that doesn't like us very much, and it hurts when it seems like other people don't like us very much, either.
Hey, neighbor. 🫡😅 TL;dr: it hurts cause it’s true, in the best way. I’m from the south, it’s weird here, stories are cool As someone from the panhandle, putting themselves through therapy, finding resources (and learning to navigate this big, complicated world in a way that isn’t constantly emotionally exhausting): Notice why it hurts! This is what stories do for ussss as humans, socio- neuro- biologically etc!! Stories help us navigate our feelings and values, cognitively and emotionally, (Kristin Neff, Johnathan Haidt, Emily Wilson’s “Odyssey” translation), etc Maybe cause it’s holding up a mirror, and we see something we don’t like? But where do those things come from? What circumstances created them? If it feels true and it hurts, accepting the way some things are is the only way to move them forward and make it something we DO like to see. What a privilege it is, someone giving us the opportunity to notice something about ourselves, with tact! Showing the best things about us alongside the unsavory— with honesty! Cause fam, down here we really be dumb as hell 🫡😮💨😂 I love it here. Our culture, the unique natural landscapes, the food, the diversity— and the spectrum of experience people have had here, even the most horrifying ones— are all part of a whole. (Full Disclosure: I been listening to Jesse Welles a LOT lately) It sure can feel like harm; but if I can’t blame the table leg, I can’t much expect others to not hurt me. 🤎 Shit takes more effort. And, there’s so much understanding and action and connection to be had!! Let’s have those hard conversations and address them through the medium of live action storytelling!! 🥰🥹
I find it interesting that Ame could feel comradery with these wizards because home was also taken from her. The difference is she framed Ren as a kindly grandma who nutured her gifts and not someone who exploited her for the sake of some machine. But what is the coven if not a machine that needs to be fed young apprentices in the same way The Imperium is fed children that could be talented wizards.
And if it is a machine, how do we want to build the ones that work the way we want them to? To automate in the ways that are efficient is reducing harm— but how to reduce it when we don’t see what it is? Yesssssssss.
You can smell it in Brennen’s last words, he has been waiting for the bit to faulter.
I need a geologic time scale for Umora. I need it. I want to know the impact of spiritual events in the fossil record. What happens to the remains of spirits like Ursalon who clearly have a physical form and may not be entirely immortal? What does it mean to evoke the spirit of an extinct organism?
The witch of what once was
You skip act 2??? You skip putting it together??? You skip children and art?!? You skip MOVE ON?!?!??
Just want to say I am in the process of indoctrinating my sister into this podcast. I downloaded all of WWW onto my iPad from the youtube playlist and we listened for 10 hours straight on a car ride to our parents house. (It’s a long ass ride) She’s playing it cool but I think she’s hooked.
Yo this whole arc is giving Doechii
Song called “bullfrog” and lines like “wanna take a ride on my ego trip?” Wake up people Suvi is about to get a crocodile leather bound spellbook and then everybody’s making death saves
Hook-ups & Heists. 👌
Love how Brennan tried to catch Gary slipping at the end and Erika and Aabria immediately backed him up this bit WILL live forever
Love y'all so much 🙏🤌
One might consider Gary Mozzarella the Sultan of Swing
How the hell do you guys got THE Gary Motzzarella?? His Tiktoks are a true art form
Ame talking to the soldiers in this ep reminded me of something from my Navy officer training. My Officer Development School company had something like 10 newly minted psychologists in it - who definitely thought they were allowed to have opinions. It’s such a different social structure.
🎵 Ame we've been trying to call youuuu 🎵
Ok but they do kinda eat people
40:40 “‘I don’t remember what Gali tastes like because I was taken when I was 5,’” WHAT? MORE THAN THAT? Is the citadel pursuing the conquest of knowledge? What use would they have with small portside towns besides to take their brightest and put them in luxury in exchange for research?? just a crack theory from that one line, thank you for listening
Ame thought she was in her fairy tail but really she was in Suvi’s trauma drama
I was really expecting more Sondheim, in both the ep and the Fireside.
On the topic of distrusting good things in TTRPGs, I think one of my core philosophies when GMing is that there are more kind people in the world than cruel. Because if I didn’t spend a dozen sessions with my party first establishing that not everyone is going to be hostile, it sets an expectation that placing trust in NPCs is more likely to be punished than not and undermines any emotional effect I could get when that trust in an NPC actually IS betrayed. And in my case I think it set the foundation for me being able to make the party legitimately doubt the long-established villainy of the campaign’s current main villain (to summarise, a very high charisma noble with sinister plans) over the course of one IC conversation (although alas that confrontation did not end in everyone becoming friends)
Thank you all so much for doing these.
Big Time Story Clean Up was much appreciated! During the horse moment, I was mostly disappointed that they accepted their gruesome/noble sacrifice so immediately. Wouldn’t animals threatened with death panic and take lengths to survive? But the justification that distant horse spirits—ones with a wiser understanding, maybe an ethos of ‘horse-ness’, and eternal life in the world of the spirit—would decide that these ephemeral mortal projections of themselves should offer their bodies for the good of human soldiers is so fun to picture. Wonders never cease!
Has Brennan ever shown up in ur guys’ dreams?
I feel this episode was Brennan showing such a deep understanding of the human experience and it's complexities. Also, my God, what a joy to hear the players react so amazingly and authenticly to the character they created. This entire podcast has been such a treat.
Went to law school, and lemme tell ya: the description about Citadel relationships was 100% dead on
I wondered too about Silver's name and whether Suvi knows it
Does it mean anything that she revealed ‘Suvi’ but he said ‘Suverin’???? DOES THAT MEAN HE HAS PRIVILEGED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HER SHE DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT? Or does it mean nothing, it was just tenderness?
Always appreciate this cast's thoughtfulness and nuance with characters and narrative. ❤️😊 This podcast and fireside is a delight to listen to.
I really can't stress enough how much joy the intro and outro songs in the firesides bring me! They have such a perfect cozy and sweet sound (especially that great bear theme- when's the WWW soundtrack album drop!?) that on top of the gorgeous story and silly people genuinely makes me feel so calm, happy and at home whenever I listen to y'all. Thank you for creating this lovely space 💜
OK. Is crying easily on planes a universal experience? Cuz this is 100% me but I’ve never had someone empathize with it
I knew a guy who would only cry watching movies on airplanes.
Shoutout to Ame's conversation with Silver laying a very witchy piece of "advice" with consequences attached. I wish the crew could've discussed it more, because it was the highlight of the whole episode for me. It feels like Ame is coming into her own on weaving Wtich's spells over her domain. And was a cool contrast between the Citadel's authority over this come-together domain and Ame's occupation of that same space. I loved everything about it!
Yeah this was a super interesting convo (and Taylor’s music??? Chef’s kiss). I loved how it took a joke about a low roll and made it a great character moment. I’m curious about the idea of consequences and witch spells you bring up though I hadn’t even thought of that!
!Numero Uno Gary!
Hayyyy, amicco mio!
Gary Mozzarella!!!!
I think I am terrible to GM for because, even though I know it's impractical, illogical, and even impossible to avoid, I don't care, if an animal is hurt or mistreated, in game, I *will* have a mini meltdown and interrupt play. I was already fully sobbing before the squirrels showed up. And then I thought they were gonna eat the talking squirrels and started crying again. I don't know how I would have recovered if Erika had rolled badly on that luck check.
"No graphic violence against animals" is actually a super common thing at the table. Frequently given as one of the very first examples in systems like X Card or Lines and Veils that are about establishing content boundaries, up there with stuff like body horror or whatever. It's why so many D&D enemies are some version of "epistemically evil, corrupted lifeform -- which can maybe assume a human guise and talk, purely so we can have some social rp stuff -- but it's still basically okay to murder". lol.
"We're so friendly, and we're dumb (ignorant) as hell!" Man, I do NOT miss living in the South. (Or working in NASCAR!) Not that there's a shortage of ignorance anywhere, but where the norm falls really does matter. And that's as a white guy with the opportunities to leave. Ame's not wrong that othering them does more harm than good, but more than a little naive that finding common ground is going to turn any but the easiest cases.
Interesting question (and I don't mean to be hard on Ame, much less Erika): what connection has Ame maintained to her original home? Obviously that was them rejecting her instead of the other way around, but that should be a clear connection with how fraught one's connection with "home" and family could be. Has she forgiven her parents, and could she have empathy for these farm and infantry people if she saw how alike they are to her parents?
kid eating alone at camp story really important. sometimes being alone is a consequence and its sinks in or it doesn’t
Curious what skillful way he would find to respond to that kid now, assuming he was too stunned at the time! Not easy to get traction with somebody already that aggressively messed up about it. At some point you just have to let them be alone to protect the rest of the kids there.
Gary Mozzarella could be sung to the tune of Gary Indiana from the Music Man. Which I know because I have been humming it to myself for like an hour.
I CAME HERE TO COMMENT THIS, THANK YOU
Question: Does Suvi know Silver’s name? Dk if I missed it or if there’s a bit of a power dynamic now that the knowledge is one sided…? And he didn’t say I love you back!! All said I’m still team Silver bc I’m team Suvi, but in a semi-mistrustful-don’t-you-dare-hurt-her-or-I’ll-kill-you type way 🔪☺️
I believe they confirmed that Silver did say it back, but they kept it out because of the privacy of the moment. Aabria said something along the lines of how Suvi wouldn't have gone through all of that just for someone who didn't say it back. Unsure about his name cloak though!
Looks like the version uploaded to the podcatcher rss feed got corrupted somehow- can't wait to listen~
Ideologies are made of reason, and reasons are based on conclusions drawn from what an agent can perceive and remember. I love to see a perspective displaced, and how quickly matters of conflicting interests transform into matters of conflicting tastes, and it becomes necessary to consider the inconceivable. (Shoutout Hannibal) The place between reason and unreason is where the magic happens, and where our heroes live. Watch them close the gap!
There is a moment in never after where shibon casts speak with animals on a horse and at one point brennen goes "we have left where my horse brain can go" Feels very relevant to the horse sintience discussion
This fireside made me realize I need to go back and listen to the episode again, because I apparently hadn't retained anything that happened except for the conversation about butchering the horses and the yelling of "If you're a spirit why aren't you bound?!" 💔 Oof. Going back in.
God, the horrified gasps to Brennan's camp story made me cackle so hard.
They were so honestly horrified at the same time my mouth fell open irl it was perfect🤣
I was very much hoping Gary was gonna say his name was Stephan Sondheim (no relation)
Brennan's talk about "smooching and heists" makes me wanna see a T-shirt that says, "Get Kisses, Get Riches"
The lore drop of spirit consciousness vs material animal consciousness is wild. is this a thing where it's like, we are hearing the horse talk but realistically it's not words, just like feelings? Having so many feelings about family separations and citadel vs towns/cities, but also, is there an analogue to squibs in the citadel? Wizard punnet squares for recessive non-wizard genes? I gotta submit this in the question doc
I think they specifically said that anyone can learn wizarding style magic. Only for Sorcerers is there a genetic component which would require the punnet squares. And I'm sure we'll get into the horrors of cast off heirs once we properly arrive in Gauth
11:10 is so relatable as a queer experience 💜
Oof, yes. Also as a neurodivergent person.
the shows of romance between suvi and silver made my ace heart very happy ty both
Release The Foxhunt Cut
I had to read this *multiple* times because the voice in my head mixed up the syllables and I was like "I know *for a fact* that's not what that says try again" 🤣🤣
Airy Perry guest star when?
Okay but i really wanna know about Suvi's terrible no good time hunting with The Fox
Yeah, same. Almost makes me want to petition for Taylor to do even more work and release 'deleted scenes' for us by the fireside once in a while.
I know that’s it’ not bc of the title, but please know I gasped in excitement while reading the description and if y’all ever did want to do some Sondheim chatting bone cone, well I would like that very much
I love Aabria's point that Shelter and Suvi have the same wound regarding family. "It's the same wound. Everything that you are connected to before you are a part of the Citadel is a wound, not a point of connection. And I thought it was really cool that Ame gets to see it again and again. And that says nothing about Ame except for her opportunity to have that as a baseline of, 'oh, that's what you're dealing with when you deal with these wizards. Their sense of home was bodily grabbed and displaced to the Citadel.'" It's such a damning light cast upon the Citadel's practices. I'm forcibly reminded of Anishinaabe folks in my community who had the harrowing experience of being taken from their homes and dropped into American efforts at intrinsically violent homogenization.
Yes yes yes yes! Both amazing points. When I heard Aabria say that, I thought: oh, Ame can't see that the call is coming from inside the house a little bit. It's so fun to see a wise character be naive and Erika does a brilliant job. We are given to understand Ame doesn't know where her parents come from. At the end of the Children's Adventure, we see the circumstances that led her to Grandmother Wren. After that, in the beginning of arc two coma flashbacks, she asks other kids in town if they know anything about her parents- so we are given to understand Ame still does not know where she came from or whatever became of her many siblings. It felt like a heavy grey cloud about to burst above the whole conversation for me, Ame wondering how anyone could *know* their home and not want to stay connected to it while not being able to recognize that they share a similar wound.
It breaks my heart that NPCs approach Ame in order to force their worldviews at her, but somehow there are folks who still end up at, "Ame, stop talking!" There's a flavor of sexism in there that unsettles me.
Hi from 2026. I struggle with this. I'm a dyed in the wool feminist and I've reflected on this for years now, here on my 3rd relisten to WWW. I just don't see sexism here. Of course Aabriya says it perfectly. Ame claims expertise in relationships and emotions but thru ineptitude that approaches negligence she just distresses people, demonstrating no insight or good judgement, and in harmful ways (Poor Mr. Callum!). I try to see the misogyny and I just can't. I see a problematic, self-centered pattern of behavior and it seems fair to call it out. She may have moral superiority to the militarism of the Citadel, but with Shelter, Silver and Sworn as individuals she was just arrogant and literally endangering starving, exhausted people. Invalidating Sworn's recovery from addiction was just mean--thats his journey. Silver was right about chain of command and safety. Shelter was starving. There's zero compassion there and that's supposedly Ame's bag. Sometimes you just say "That sounds hard" and don't tell people they live incorrectly. The pushback in each case was NPCs saying, "This is how I live" and not trying to change Ame herself, just sharing their own personal experiences, and she kept saying 'You do life wrong." Brilliantly played, of course. Sorry this got long, I appreciate any counter.
Brennan's sheer glee at getting to commit to the bit of committing to the bit right at the end got to me. What do you mean there's a 4th wall?! Gary?? GARY!!
When's Gary gonna release a full album of songs from Wicked?
the kid eating alone at camp story gave me such whiplash i sat there in my cubicle with my mouth agape lol
With your WHAT?
Whew, bigotry can set in early 😅
Kids learn fast sadly
I want merch that says "I like fights, I like heists, and I like smooching"
It really is insidious how much I was taught to believe all loners were just waiting for a best friend to come along and be nice to them and were unfairly maligned. Nah. Every time these kids/people were just awful brats for the most part. Hollywood must be Stopppppped.
Gary asking 'why bro' should be a whole damn episode
Brennan's points on playing out prejudice were extremely well put. I've depicted similar themes in stories I've run, and doing so never fails to make me feel slimy and want to apologize to my players afterward, lol.
A really good bad guy makes a wonderful story. It sucks to do it and you are so appreciated for doing it.
Ahoo hoo
Now see, based on Gary's previous roles, I would argue he's closer to a Baritone. A very fitting voice part for Sweeny Todd, another Sondheim show. Semantics aside, his vocal control is unparalleled, and honestly, Josh Groban could never
Ahoo hoo, I've been waiting for one whole Sondheim reference for a week
Erika and I had the same reaction to saying this episode title lol
Crackle crackle!
whoot just in time for my run, so excited! ahoo hoo