A Change to Patreon's Fees
You guys will likely receive an email about this from Patreon tomorrow, but they informed us creators today and I wanted to just start a dialogue about it.
Creators on Patreon don't receive the full amount you pledge to us each month. It seems obvious, but you probably don't think too much about it; Patreon gets a cut, and then there are transaction fees (credit card processing, etc) that all comes out of our end.
Typically what we end up with is about 80-88% of your total pledge.
Patreon is changing their system so that the content creators actually receive more of that pledged money going forward; starting in the next couple of weeks, we'll receive 95% of the pledged value.
It seems they're accomplishing this in a couple of ways. First, lowering the transaction processing fees to a flat 5% (from a variable 7-15%).
They're also lowering Patreon's cut from 5% to 2.9%+ $0.35 per pledge, AND it looks like they're moving it outside of the pledge. If I'm reading it correctly, that will no longer come out of my end, but rather be tacked on to your pledge (like tax). So if you pledge $3, I think you'll actually be charged $3.44 ($0.35 plus 2.9% of your pledge).
So what does this mean? Well, it means that more of your support will actually make its way to me, instead of to Patreon or credit card companies.
It ALSO means that, since we have been literally on the cusp of our next milestone for the last couple of months, that the additional pledged amount MIGHT push us over the line and get everyone that extra comic. Seems pretty likely to me, we'll have to wait and see.
However, it does mean (I think), that you'll see your pledges increase a bit. It doesn't seem like its a LOT, but it's not my place to tell people the value and importance of their hard-earned money. So in that regard, I'm interested in hearing from you, my Patrons, how you feel about this change.
Comments (34)
It's not going to break me but depending on how it actually comes out it I may refrain from new pledges (not that I had any planned).
I personally don't mind the increase (yours is the only Patreon I subscribe to) and will continue my subscription unchanged.
On the higher end tiers the difference won't be that noticeable. But on the lower end it will be extremely noticeable. For $1 that's a jump to $1.38, a nearly 40% increase. I understand what Patreon says they want to do but to me it feels like they're trying to kill the lower end tiers. How that ends up impacting Patreons only time will tell.
In a way it makes sense. I'm sure the lower end ($1-2) tiers don't provide much for the creators after processing fees. While this means higher fees for the patrons, it means more of that low tier money actually goes to whom you're supporting. It's a give and take.
Roughly figured that this would add another $0.50 to my $5 pledge (effectively a 10% increase), which isn't a big deal. I'm fine with this, personally.
I appreciate that.
The new fee structure is bullshit. They claim they're passing on the processing fees to patrons, but they only pay $0.35 per month for my entire payment but they want to charge me $0.35 for every individual pledge. So if I'm pledging $1 to 10 creators, they pay $0.29 + $0.35 but charge me $0.29 + $3.50 + $10 and just pocket the extra $3.15.
Yeah, that would be concerning to me if I supported multiple people, but this is the only one I've ever supported on here. I would suggest contacting Patreon and let them know of your dissatisfaction with the new system before the end of the month. Who knows, if enough people contact them they may change it.
As I am already paying 3.63 (0,63 VAT - that is what I get for being from middle Europe) and you are the only one I support, I dont realy care, but I can understand that if someone is supporting more creators, they may reconsider pledge all of them. I like they rised your share, as all of us wants to support the creators, not the big company sheltering it.
It might have an impact on people helping a lot of creators, as in the end, the additional fees we'll will be equal to a standard 3-5$ subscription. Especially if the 0.35 fix fee is for each creator and not on the sum transaction. That said, you'd need a lot of creators at 5$ to actually feel a big difference, otherwise it's not a very big deal. I might be wrong, but I think most of the patrons can be patrons because, well, they can actually afford it. It's not these small fees that'll change a thing. I do find it cool that you'll get more in the end, nice move from Patreon even if it's for their own pockets too, just strange that they didn't inform us (at least, I never saw a mail come about it).
I need to read the email from Patreon. I use Paypal, I hope they won't put Credit Card fees on my 13 pledges. Sounds good for creators. But we live in a capitalist world. They do not do this just to help creators.
No, of course not. That's why they're selling it to US with "You'll earn more!" and then expecting us to sell it to you :/
Need to hurry up and get rid of Visa/MasterCard. Bring on the economy of micro transactions and the streamable money. Luckily I only support two creator's here so, fees will be fine. Cheers for the discussion ;)
I back 14, so this is a concern for me...
I didn’t know creators could charge on a per post basis. That could turn some people off on being supporters but as a monthly fee I don’t mind covering the transaction fees so you get closer to what I pledged.
They can. It can be useful when a creator makes a specific product that maybe they can't put our regularly, or that requires specific investment.
Hmm, Netflix is bumping their prices too. /sadface
Yeah, it seems like a system that now DISSUADES people from pledging to multiple creators, which is kind of one of the big benefits of a site like this. I mean, I could probably cut Patreon out of the whole deal and just set up my own subscription service for extra content via PayPal, but the ease of use here (for you and me) is supposed to be the draw And going forward, the fee-system is all NEW Patrons will know, and so they'll likely be okay with it, but it's basically going to make me work just to build back up to where I already was.
That was supposed to be a reply to a post by John that disappeared for some reason :( "That is unambiguous, and awful. I love that the move gets more money into your pocket even as a percentage of a given fee, but the burden being on the creators to educate us (thank you, by the way!) and the fee now being assessed on every pledge is going to be redistributing my pledging. I'd be dramatically better off taking $12 (or any lump sum) and pledging/cancelling to a different single creator every month rather than splitting it between all the creators I want to support. It's exactly the opposite of how the system 'works' intuitively."
As a $3 tier person, I'm not excited about the change for the reasons others have mentioned, but it's not going to dissuade me from my pledge. You're actually the only person I subscribe to via patreon so it doesn't hit me much, but I can see people who sub to multiple artists having to rethink their expenses.
I think that even if you pay per post, Patreon just keeps track of how many posts you are pledging for and charges you once at the end of the month. I pledge per video for one creator, but even if they released the video on the 7th of the month, I don't get charged until the end of the month along with all my other monthly contributions.
According to the FAQ, you'll get hit for each paid post: <a href="https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005631963" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005631963</a>
@Tim I get charged per month, so I'd hope fees work the same way. If your model is per post then a $5/mo and $1/post (@5 posts) would get hit the same, right?
I do per month for my Patreon. But creators have the option to charge per post (like if someone were creating videos or music or something). For my Patreons, the fees will apply once per month, when you pay your pledge. But for people who subscribe to per-post Creators, they'll pay the fee EACH separately on EACH post.
@Joey if that's true, that's actually a pretty nice change! I was worried about the impact to the $1 tier patreons, but unless they are only subbing to a couple people, the change won't be much. @Tim I suspect it will be per post if the rationale Joey mentions is accurate :/
Sheesh, it seems like for Creators that charge per-post , EACH post gets hit with this new fee :/ I don't do a per-post Patreon, but I'd considered it for chapters of an ongoing Starcaster CYOA novel. Now that seems much less enticing.
Talking with another creator I'd heard that the fees used to decrease as the amount pledged total per month by an individual increased, so the creators I pledged to would see a huge chunk taken out of a $1 pledge but if I made 10 $1 pledges the fee would be a lower % and each creator would get a larger portion. Seeing a flat rate to you is nice, even if it means I eat the difference.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Currency fluctuations already vary the cost to me by much more than this amount, so I probably wouldn't have even noticed.
From what I understood in that email, the creators are going to get more money at the expense of the patrons, not the CC companies or Patreon. Patreon is still taking their 5% cut, and the CC companies haven't lowered their fees, so now they are just now passing the CC fees on to the patrons. So that means if you pledge $1 per month now, your CC is going to be charged $1.38. The creator will receive $0.95 of that dollar, Patreon will receive $0.05, and the credit card companies still rake in their fees.
It does seem to hit the lowest-tier pledges the worst. Unfortunately, they're not giving us any choice to opt-out.
There's a big difference between a dollar and $1.40 though. Anyone who can only afford that dollar, but enjoys being part of supporting their creators, may have to drop a few people off, and I've heard many times how important the $1 patrons are. I'm ok with paying more personally I guess for my favourite creators, but I'll probably reduce the number of people I support. Also it's awkward and maths and ><
Very true.
I'm all for the creators getting more of the pledged money... I'm not particularly happy with Patreons means of doing it - but that's nothing you have control over I know. Essentially they just told all pledgers that they are paying their patrons more wether they wanted to increase their pledge or not =/
If you like the content you’ll pay the increase. Prices go up, it’s a fact of life. It doesn’t sound like it will go up a lot.