The next step for ORS
Hi guys!
The development cycle for Chapter 9 is finally over (all that remains is the Android port we're making some optimization adjustments and hopefully it's out early next week). As you know development of this last chapter has been complicated, both for technical and personal reasons, but I didn't want to make any excuses until the work was done. I've been thinking about talking a bit more in depth about that, but I doubt you want to hear about my personal issues, and what's important is that the game finally released.
Now, moving forward, I have several plans I wanted to discuss with you. I've already started figuring out Chapter 10, but there are a few things that need to be done before that:
First of all, the Steam release. I've been talking about it for a while now, but I still haven't managed to get it done. I feel this step is crucial to grow the player base and the business and take ORS to the next level, however my priority is always to create more content for you guys, so I've been postponing the Steam version. Furthermore, I want ORS to release on Steam at it's best, and that means I need to polish some things before that.
As you can see in the picture above, I'm enhancing some old illustrations. Not only that, but I'm also re-drawing a few of them that I wasn't happy with (there are some infamous drawings, like that Ian+Alison one) ((can't show it here due to Patreon's censorship))
I'm not stopping there, though. I feel there are some scenes with untapped potential, so I want to make a few re-writes and re-drawings for those. Some are minor, and some others will overhaul the entire scene. Also, add some more flavour to some character interactions and conversations, now that I (and you too) know who those characters are like.
But most importantly, and the reason I've decided to do all this, it's one character: Stan. There was a reason he was missing from the cards I published this Summer, and it's this:
I know many of you really like the character and are hoping to see more scenes with him, since his role in the game has been really minor. The truth is, I don't like him. And I don't really know what to do with him in the narrative. When I created him, I thought it would be interesting to add this character trope into the game, since GGGB didn't have anyone like him, and I wanted to try to explore new character dynamics. But the truth is Stan ended up being just that: a trope of a character, and I felt all his interactions with Lena were shallow and didn't fit the rest of the game. And it's time to fix that.
I've decided I want to re-write and overhaul Stan's role in the entire game. I want to make him into a more nuanced and relatable character, and make the scenes he's had so far more exciting and interesting. Many of you have pointed out that Lena's available romance options where lacking good guys other than Ian, and Stan is the man to fill that role. But he can't in his current state.
We're already at chapter 9 and I need to fix this before continuing to move forward. I know this might be inconvenient to some of you, who want the story to keep unfolding as fast as possible. Also, this overhaul of the game will render old saves problematic, and to re-start again might be a pain in the ass. Hopefully the changes I'll make will make it worth it, but in any case, my priority is to make the best game I can and I'm willing to take a backwards step if needed. I'm sorry if this isn't what you guys were looking forward right now, but I know ORS will become a much better product after this. Oh, and I'm also taking this time to train someone to help me with the line-work, we've already started working on it and I'll show you some of that soon.
So, that's basically it. I will talk in more detail about all of these points during the following weeks. Feel free to let me know any doubts or questions you have, and tell me which topic do you want me to elaborate on. As always, thanks for your support and for following the development of this game, I hope you keep enjoying what I create :)
Comments (43)
I'm really happy for your decision to make Stan a bigger part of the story. My personal favourite couple is Ian with Lena but I also like Ian with Holly and felt quite sad that there isn't any "good guy" character for Lena. I don't say that it has to be Stan but it'd be fine if there was someone like that However I really like how much depth there is in the story and can't wait for next chapter. Thank you for your grear work.
Hi Eva, usually I'm 100% behind your choices but here I'm a little worried. As you progress in the story, you've got a lot of new paths, choices and decisions that basically multiply each time the number of branches that you have to think of & put in place. Keeping something consistent with that is really hard and (of course) time consuming. We can see that with the time needed to deliver your last releases. Here... I'll be honest, I haven't followed Stan's road... he's a side character that I'm not really into... re-writing it will have lots of impact on your current version of the game, on the path written, etc... Would it be possible to imagine of some "game changer" decision for Stan that could bring him now (and for the future) in some arc that would fit the role that you think for him ? That would allow you to move forward as-is and not take a big amount of your time to re-write your story. Because doing, destroying and re-do is doing 3 times the job :) Will still continue to support you anyway as I'm very fan of your work ! I can't wait for you to push the game on steam and I do hope that your long time Patreon will have dedicated keys for them :)
Good point, but I assume, because Stan did not interact with many paths as of now, there woun't be so much to change. He only interacts with Lena and Louise (except a little cameo ;) on the concert). Having read Eva's post for the fourth time and getting over the initial shock ;) when I read "overhaul Stan", I really wonder how much Eva will change. She sometimes sounds like she would like to change a lot, sometimes only a litte. But right now, I am a little thrilled about her polishing her work and beeing able to add some more spice in the few slow spots and flattening the few bumps in story-telling.
It will be interest story that Stan saw the porn which our bimbo/porn star Ashly act it,and get catch by lena. Any chance bring her back?(the bimbo version of course)
I am a reader of a visual novel and I want the game to move steadily forward and the appearance of the characters to change only in the following chapters ! I 'm sorry for Stan ! Stan is not a slacker and can pay Lena for photo shoots ! He 's a complex guy right now ! Intimacy with a good active girl will be an incentive for Stan 's inner growth ! That's when you can change the external image of Stan! But the decision is made only by the author! Axel has never smiled yet , but that 's no reason to redo the whole game ! Hehe!!??
Stan as a good guy?! To me, he comes across pretty creepy in many interactions. If the end goal is to make him a viable good guy option, that's your call. It's your game. But, that sure seems like alot of additional work when you're already so far into this project. I hope this doesn't spiral into minor issues to slow down development of another amazingly enjoyable game. GGGB was truly enjoyable and ORS has been too so far. I look forward to seeing where you go in the next chapter.
Nope. I saw "last chapter" in the post above and misread it.
I'unno what the fuss is. I'mma assume it's from folk that don't get how borked and unpredictable programming can get. GGGB was fantastic, if you think taking the time to polish stuff up will better the game then go for it. I'm supporting in the off chance this does impact supporters. Beware being overanalytical, I think it's the bane of any artist. But threatening a developer because they want to perfect the thing they're dumping countless hours into is just childish. Doubly so when any progress can be re-acquired by holding the CTRL key. Triply so when the intention is to improve previously established content further incentivizing additional runs. You've already proven yourself as a developer that can actually finish their project which I think has been taken for granted.
I support what you write, but was there any reason for it? I have not read of anybody "threatening a developer". Some have said they don't really like the idea, but thats not threatening, is it? As a developer, you also have to hear some constructive criticism in order to get better. If and how you react on it is up to you. Only getting positiv feedback quickly creates a bubble around you. But most of the replies were positivly, anyhow.
I have to say that I was really shocked by this post, and somewhat disappointed.
The replay value of ORS is higher than GGGB. I'd love to see some re-draws with a few of the older scenes. I hope there's a list on which ones get upgraded, but I'm okay with finding them on my own. The one re-draw that caught me off guard was Lena and Mike's first scene. I'll be looking forward to these new re-draws as soon as they're out. I just hope it doesn't slow down Ch.10 too much.
Fantastic news. I was hoping to see more of Stan as time progressed and always felt a little let-down when Lena's interactions with him were considerably tame. If that means we don't see Chapter 10 until next year, so be it. I'll gladly play the chapter 9 re-release in the mean time. Is Chapter 10 supposed to be the final chapter? I would happily play 20 chapters or more!
There is going to be around 20 or so chapters.
Eva, you know that you are crazy, right?! You have a top-notch novel, a deeper character-development and depth than any other visual novel on the market and you say "oh, not perfect, let's go over it one more time!" :D . But that craziness is what makes your game stand out, what makes it a real novel and not just some dime novel. I only whish you could clone yourself and also live a hundred years ;) . So it's good to hear you are training someone - like Leonardo with his students for the lesser-art pieces in the Sistine Chapel ;) ) . About Stan and other "rework"-topics: I do like a "vanilla-esque" part, but the creepy things are my favourite. Stan always felt like a "stupid", "poor" and unskilled Seymore - they both push Lena to do more than she feels like - but Seymore planned, Stan in his pathetic way (getting to a sleazy photoshoot, spying, ...). I really liked the both parts of the same medal. Please don't make him into a good looking, well hung, charming stud. But bo, nervermind, don't listen to me - you will make him great again, I am certain of this. But Ian never sparked my interest as much as Lena did. It seems he only has one way of having "sex". He is a typical male, all little more active (with Emma), a little more passive (Lena/Alison). But he is "never" blackmailed, "never" spied on, there are no really dark forces pulling him. Only Minerva is a little path in this way. But I really have no creative idea to make his path equally interesting as Lenas. Having him work as a gigolo for more mature ladies (Minerva?) might be a stupid idea, but you might get what I mean. Maybe make him lick Cindys (or Emmas) feet in order not to have them reveal his cheating on Lena... not that good either, but maybe you come up with something a little bit more spice there for his path. Would love to see Ed evolve a little bit more - he is activly pursuing Lena, but also a little bit unconciousnessly, if you know what I mean. He seems to think it is his right to see Lena half-naked. This is an interesting approach. One last suggestion: Maybe you make a "revamp"-Release for Ch9-V2. So you have something to release in a shorter time - nothing new at the end, but in-between. I fear it would take a lot of time if you try to partially rewrite the game *and* release a new chapter. So, good luck and kudos for having the balls refine this already good piece of art. Loving to hear your thoughts about it!
i agree with spicing Ian's path's up a bit, throw a little femdom, or some other more kinky sex in the mix. not that he NEEDS it, but it would be a really nice change of pace since he is very vanilla 9/10 times. that being said the story so far is excellent and i have few complaints on that end
Stan hits the Gym hard…Wins the MMA tournament and then teams up with Ian to save Lena from Seymour’s Bond Villian Island.
I'm all for the Stan rework, but please make sure he still has his own quirks and personality and isn't just turned into Ian 2.0.
Just my 2 cents, here. I LOVE the game, by the way, and I have many different saves to cover a lot of different paths (there are so many great possibilities!). My opinion on Stan is that he is kind of stuck right now, but he could move in a couple of directions. He could stay the inexperienced nerd that Lena has fun with on occasion, but I think he could also evolve without a massive revamp. He has to know Lena is hooking up with others, and maybe he wants her bad enough that he hits the gym (where he might interact with Ian...) and works to improve his image to be worthy of Lena's attentions. Or, maybe he's evil and decides to blackmail Lena. Or, maybe Lena decides that she's done hooking up with pretentious, cheating guys and decides to go for someone completely different, like...well, Stan. Stan could also maybe be a love interest for Holly? The possibilities seem endless. I don't know where you are in terms of ending the story, so maybe there isn't time for Stan to evolve from where he is now. Whether you revamp the entire game to refit Stan or let him evolve from where he is now, I'll support whatever you do. If it means I need to replay all my games from before...so be it! RenPy's skip text feature saves a lot of time. If you do completely refit Stan, I'm excited to see what you come up with!
I always assumed Stan was going to be a guy Lena could build up into a better version of himself and help him get a girlfriend of his own... but this works as well.
Stan . . . THE MAN!
You hit it right on the head.. in a world of Mikes, Axels, Roberts, and Jeremys, I have always looked for my guy Stan, the one whose narrative is completely unlike the others. Of all the characters you could flesh out I'm pleased it's Stan.
I get your point. Stan feels more human than super-hero, right? Even though I would say that Robert is somewhere in between, better looking, strong willing, but not Mr. Perfect.
Having to start over wouldn't be worth it. That's HOURS worth of play being thrown away and over an hour playing over again even with skipping to get back per save.
Seems I have too much time available ;) . I don't really mind, there are still so many options I have not reached and so many details I have overlooked.
Wow! I am really excited about this overhaul with Stan. He might not be showing up often in the story, but I agree, he needs to be more than a one-sided character or a trope. With that being said, I am looking forward to the improvement that you are about to do him. Crossing my fingers that he will have some interesting encounters with Lena after the overhaul.
I love Stan so, yay ! \o/
Really looking forward to seeing your plans coming to fruition ;) I like this Stan-Lena interaction already and would love to see more of it (the voyeurism/exhibitionism thing is what clicks my buttons here - I am almost certain that Lena won't sleep with him).
I'm not a fan of Stan and I really don't care about him. If this overhaul ends up turning him into an interesting character, I'm all for it. You mentioned that he only ended up being a trope of a character, but isn't it true about Jeremy as well? I mean, he has some funny interactions with Ian, but, outside that, he is the walking BBC trope, imo. As for Lena's lack of good guys romance options, I always thought you were going with a kind of character like you did Jack in GGGB, but with Mike or even Axel being the one. Anyway, amazing work on chapter 9. On Ian's side, probably my second favorite chapter overall. Still hoping Ian'll have a shot at Ivy down the line, haha.
I love your work. Take your time and do what you think is the best. That is art. Reruns are normal for something in the making. If you like to share your technical and personal reasons for the complicated development it sounds nice to hear.
I fully support the plan to lay better foundations before pressing on with the story. I know your intention is to make the best game possible so I trust your judgement on how to achieve that.
I think it's a great decision. Stan has always felt like a one-note character to me, which can be OK for someone less important to the story, like Molly or Billy, but a roommate of one of the protagonists deserves better. Don't feel pressured to make him the Dave of ORS, although I am guilty of saying ORS needed a "clean" non-Ian option for Lena, if Stan works better as someone else, just do what feels right. I love discussing the personalities, motivations, hopes and dreams of your characters as if they were real people, so I can't wait until the moment when Stan joins that roster.
Ah, that's the reason why Stan the man didn't have his card shown. I can't wait to see what you have planned for him. That art above is looking gorgeous. I can't speak for others but I have no problems with re-runs.
About re-runs: I myself only like them if they are worth it and well done. With Eva, I see this potential. But it still leaves me with a small portion of regret - I will always wonder how the "traditional" would have behaved in their story. In a perfect world, both story-lines would coexist simultaniously ;) .
Eva first of all I want to say thank you for your work of art. I love your games and if we are talking about ORS i love it so much and how history develops and ALL characters here amazing, interesting and crucial. I'm always waiting for new chapters hope that you'll do all what you want and will pleasure us. Wish you the all the best in your personal life and with your work. With love and awaiting for new adventures.
This sounds really good. Stan is such an underused character, and fleshing him out more will only be a good thing. I do hope you keep the scenes of him being Lena's photographer, and him spying on Lena, but if you want him to be more of a "good guy" I guess you may have to change the spying. Either way, he will be a good romance option for Lena. No problem on having to replay the game, it's only gotten better over time and this will make it more so! One small request on the gallery though, can you add an option for hints or clues on how to unlock scenes?
" I do hope you keep the scenes of him being Lena's photographer, and him spying on Lena," I totally agree with you. I like the creepy Stan. Maybe, Eva does not have tu turn him around completely. Maybe let Stan and Eva have a creepy relationship (extremest form: cuckolding) or let them have one path of romance and another the "unchanged" creepy path.
Unlikely romances are a neat addition, Ian + Minera is a classic example, so I for one, support the option to have Stan as someone romanceable, even if it is a bit niche option.
Ian + Minera came out of nowhere, and was surprised at how much I wanted it after it happened!
I think it's smart of you to revise Stan rather than try to force yourself to keep working on a concept you don't find engaging at all. I look forward to seeing what you come up with for him.
Looking forward to the new and improved Stan. I would also argue that Ed could use a revamp as well.
Maybe not a complete revamp, but more room and a more straighter direction (depending on Lena's Behavior). Would you agree?
I'll be waiting for the steam version. Hope there will be achievements.
#JusticeForStan