FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E16 - Q Who

We have arrived at the episode I was most anticipating long long ago back during TOS when it was clear we would proceed to TNG after TOS and TAS. There are other episodes of TNG I was and am stoked for... but this was the most "wait until they get there" moment I was anticipating in TNG. I was not disappointed.

I've always thought it was Q helping the Federation in a way. Sure, he forcibly introduced the two before they would have normally, but it gave the Federation a heads up and time to try to adapt and prepare for the Borg.

Guys. It’s pronounced “Duh-lance-ee”. John de Lancie. Like “Nancy” 🖖

Q Continuum Pips = rank

I think "hive mind" became more of a trope *because* TNG did so well with the borg. I'm having trouble thinking of pre-TNG instances of it except maybe Enders Game, which was around the same time. (One probably inspired the other tbh)

The secret Kryptonite for borgs. Hot chocolate poured on them.

The intro re Gomez does connect with the episode. Think about it.

My prediction was WAY off. I love that you guys can keep me guessing!

In defense of Sonya Gomez- When watching as a kid I always tried to imagine where I would fit on the Enterprise. Everyone seemed to be so competent. It was very refreshing to meet a character that was not cookie cutter perfect Starfleet. She got nervous, talked too much, made silly mistakes, and she STILL belonged in Starfleet. Social anxiety and just plain old social awkwardness resonates with many and I think it was worth a shot in my opinion. Though I agree, I think it's done better with other characters over the years though for sure. 💗

Underrated writing/directing moment when Guinean calls the bridge is when Riker looks to Worf instead of just saying that everything was normal.

The don’t like Sonya. Well so much for post 2009

THE PLOT = Q just wanted to play along with them but they wouldnt let him play Starfleet. So he made them play with him.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but... interesting how Guinan mentions that the borg just ripped her people's cities right out of the ground... sounds familiar to something that happened in the episode 'neutral zone' doesn't it ?

Of course they didn't recognise that she was the triple-breasted woman in Total Recall. They probably didn't look at her face even once in Total Recall.

Just so you know, the rank on their collars are called pips and they work like this: 1gold-Ensign 1gold,1black-Lieutenant Jr. 2gold-Lieutenant Sr. 2gold,1black-Lieutenant Commander 3gold-Commander 4gold-Captain 1,2,3,or4 in a box-different levels of admiral 1black-depending on who you ask either Ensign Jr, Enlisted, or some other non-officer position Both Lieutenant Jr & Sr are often just referred to as just Lieutenant. Lieutenant Commanders are sometimes just referred to as Commander

I have to say, you're really on point with the discussion about all the narrative potential and issues a faction like the Borg can have. Especially interesting that you point to the hive mind as something that has been overdone, because when I watched this for the first time it felt really fresh and fascinating. Of course that was over 30 years ago. Also, every time you speculate about future events in TNG (and Trek overall) you'd like to see, I can't help but think you will be both immensely pleased and occaisonally really disappointed in the years to come. I wish I could experience that again, but modern Trek really isn't worth watching (mostly).

26:08 - You like somber endings? You're gonna looooooove DS9

Enter... the Borg! Awwwww yeah

Guinan being able to put up any kind of fight against Q doesn't really make sense when we consider the fact that her species got decimated by the Borg, and the Borg...as powerful as they are are still reliant on ships and are not on a Q plane of existence. I guess there are a few ways to rationalize Guinan being powerful enough, at least Vis via Q...but that exploration would risk spoiling so I'll just leave it at that.

If you're watching in release order, does that mean you'll be watching Star Trek V after the next two episodes?

Pretty much every one I’ve ever heard has pronounced Delance like Delancey. 🤷‍♂️

In you were to mimic how we originally watched the episodes you would have to see the cheesy next week preview at the end of the previous episode "On next weeks episodes of Staaaaar Trek The Next Generation, Q Returns!". I also wonder how you manage to not see episode titles when you run them off blu ray (or even streaming). You guys have an assistant?

Star Trek the Next, Next Generation, with Captain Wesley Crusher? Oh God!!! Noooo!!!

Missed opportunity for Ensign Gomez to dump a second cup of hot chocolate on the Borg and save the day

I love that your spitballing goes in some directions that mirror the show or other shows. not going to say which ones to avoid spoilers.

I think you guys are overthinking the "who can see Q " thing. The senior staff already knew q was around and their attenton was focused on the borg, so they didnt react much to his appearing and disappearing because it wasnt the immediate threat. I dont think theres supposed to be more to it.

There are still a couple of good episodes left in this season (in my opinion), but honestly think this episode should have been the season finale.

At this point you guys have read dozens of comments telling you that the Borg have far reaching impact on the rest of the series. I feel if this isn't an outright spoiler it at least rubs all up on spoiler territory, depending on what you might have known in advance just through pop culture references. I'd always prefer that you guys go forward "wondering if" rather than being sure a thread will be picked up later. I commented about this concern on the Patron Takes post but ended up deleting it because of the sheer number of posts doing it. It is what it is, I guess. We all get excited by these episodes and sometimes the floodgates just open up.. For what it's worth, no specifics here, but sometimes things seem to be getting telegraphed for a later return, but then don't return. Assuming the first comment doesn't just lay it all out for you, it's good to keep that in mind going forward, which, I think you guys do already. Great episode, great discussion!

"The most memorable camera work I've seen in... a little bit" 😂😂

How did you feel about Dr. Pulaski NOT appearing in this episode??

I feel like this was the start of TNG forging it's own path and breaking away (in a good way) from TOS. The original concept around what the Borg represents was such a big idea back then. It wasn't just their over powered technology, it was that what drove them wasn't negotiable. There would never be a treaty or neutral zone with them and so how does an organization built around exploration and uniting civilizations deal with that??

You guys have no idea how long I've waited for this moment for both of your reactions to the debut of the Borg. I loved your reactions to this episode, from the whole Federation & Romulan outposts in the Neutral Zone reference to finally getting an official look at what these beings are. Well done, guys! And Alex, you, and Picard, are right about one thing about the Borg: you guys haven't seen the last of them! And I will, of course, not disclose any information on when they will return, except this: BE READY.

You guys' talk about going into the episodes with no prior knowledge is very interesting to me, showing just how different TV watching is now compared to what the younger people are used to. Going in completely cold on an episodes is always better, but keep in mind when originally aired, every episode before the ending credits rolled gave us a 15-second "Next time on Star Trek: The Next Generation..." teaser. So, many of us would've known Q would be back, and we'd get a glimpse of the weird new aliens. Also, the fear of "SPOILERS!" wasn't such a big thing. I remember as a kid describing episodes for people who missed it. Why? Because if you missed it, you probably weren't seeing it again until reruns over Christmas or the summer. Sure, by then we had started recording episodes on the VCR, but mostly no one expected people may not have watched the original airing. It was first the spread of the DVR and especially later on with streaming that we entered the "No Spoilers" culture. It existed a little with movies then, I guess. But not like now.

why did u guys skip ahead to pen pals?

I will say for various reasons this does FEEL more like a Season 3 and up episode. Just the look and tone, anyway. There are other spoilery reasons, but I will avoid that. I remember early in the days of reruns, I used to always think "Oh, right, this was in Season 2!"

(Paraphrasing) “It’d be great to get an episode where someone has to deal with people being killed by the Borg because of Picard, blaming him for it.” Damn, that sounds like a good idea. I personally think they should have made a whole show based on that concept.

Remember the Doomsday Machine, several of the books strongly imply that an ancient alien race built a fleet of them to fight the Borg and lost. With that alien race now extinct & only one Doomsday machine left with a damaged targeting computer drifting aimlessly through the galaxy until the events of the TOS episode

I do think not reading the show titles ahead of time is the way to go.

1)Nice touch with the cube in the window in the background. 2)Didn't expect a Kirk acting scene would mine have gotten picked, but it is appreciated. 3)What, no drinking hot chocolate during the discussion? 😉 Edit 4)The fun part about Picard saying Q is akin to chaos (though to be fair, your example with Joker is too far if you've ever read "Emperor Joker" when Joker gets 99% of Mxyzptlk's power), DeLancie would actually go on to voice a Lord of Chaos character by the name of Discord in "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic"

I think the stage is set for Season 3 and beyond. The remainder of Season 2 may never hit the highs here, but future episodes will and frequently surpass!

Ensign Gomez as comic relief was NOT what the actress was promised for the part, but not too long ago the Gomez character was given a redemption! You will just have to keep watching all of Trek to see what! The actress, Lycia Nash, is a very lovely person though, I think she goes to some Star Trek conventions, and I think she's in at least one of the larger star trek facebook meme groups

26:45 Just you wait. Just. You. Wait.

29:50 There are worse things than dying.

25:02 It wasn't an uncomfortable long time... the soon-to-be-iconic "Yeah, there's that sexy ship" theme was playing.

19:57 "Where are these babies coming from?" That's a really good question, and not easy to answer. It will be really fun to be able to talk about this kind of stuff in the future.

17:55 The idea of going to explore the Borg vessel kinda horrified Guinan. But, if you think about it, how many other species which the Borg have met have done the same thing? Probably not many. It very subtly sets up that humans *are* different.

13:58 Don't know if you picked up on it yet, but the Borg "beamed" onto the ship while its shields were UP.

I don't like Sonya Gomez either. Something about her bugs me but it's hard for me to articulate? For me, part of it is her acting and her way of speaking. Not that it's.. bad, it just feels out of place for me I suppose. And her character just makes me want to facepalm, but considering Geordie's reaction, that's probably deliberate, lol.

Wanting individualized borg you miss the point of the Borg.

1) My suspicion about the non reaction to Q appearing was a directing decision because filming a believable and well timed group reaction to the sudden appearance of an actor who is standing there the whole time was giving them difficulty. 2) The second Borg drone didnt take the dead one. He grabbed a few pieces and the rest disintegrated.

Yea this episode was kind of where TNG 'clicked' fully into place and it's very much uphill from here. It has now become the show that we all loved and almost all the, I guess 'experimental' fiddling is over with, the people making the show have a vision of what they want it to be and they get very cohesive for the next five seasons. Buckle up.

I have to wonder why there are food replicators in Engineering anyway...

6:16 He was going to his quarters to change his uniform! I'm kinda dumbfounded that you didn't pick that up in real time.

0:55 For the record, guys, John de Lancie is pronounced "djŏn dŭ LĂN-sē" or "lan-see" with two syllables, rhymes with "Nancy".

Interesting that the series that thought the Ferengi would be a serious adversary managed to create one of Trek’s most iconic and deadly adversaries. You still have to wonder if Kirk would have just talked the Borg into blowing themselves up ha!

So, one thing about the name "Borg" you guys made the connection to Cy- Borg. That's clever, but its actually a Swedish term, meaning "castle" or "fortress." Their ship is a literal invincible/regenerative fortress. As has been said previously, Gene didn't really want to bring back Klingons or Romulans, and Worf was a late addition to the roster. It wasn't until late into S1 that they started bringing in the classical aliens (Klingons and Romulans.). Their first attempt at a new villain for the TNG cast did not land. The problem for the writers going forward, with The Borg, is... I mean its not a spoiler, you saw what happened. The Borg are such a tough villain. It's much harder to do something with that. The Romulans and the Klingons are to varying degrees on equal footing with our crew, so it becomes a game of wits, but with The Borg, they're basically unstoppable. They're like Mr. X from Resident Evil 2, or a horde of Terminators. I know you guys are pretty much aware that Season 2 has a less-than-amazing finale, and I don't think its a spoiler to say, this episode is one of the reasons for that. They spent a lot of money here for all new visual effects, models, and even without that you still have a lot of Q effects, complicated camera work, and score. On the subject of score. I don't know what the budget was like on TNG, but I do know that with TOS they had budget for eight new scores a season. Everything else was stock. Episodes like This Side of Paradise and The Doomsday Machine got original scores, but then that music would get reused in episodes like Shore Leave or Journey to Babel.

This was one of those episodes in Season 2 that laid the ground work for not just the rest of TNG, but two other Star Trek shows you have yet to watch.

Season 2 isn't "bad." It's uneven. It has some of the best episodes of the entire series - this one, Measure of a Man, maybe one more coming up. It also has some of the worst episodes of the series, like Pen Pals, and again, maybe one more coming up. But this was a fantastic episode both in itself, and in introducing a new nemesis to the Star Trek universe.

lol funny how your description of a show following a low level character up to captain describes a show you’ll see eventually maybe lol. Depends on how far you are willing to go.