PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG S2E16

This is what they call meeting the end game boss without levelling up ….. welcome to the borg

This is a pivotal episode that has lasting effects through out Star Trek from this episode on to the latest Trek.

You guys are going to like this episode, very much.

As many people have pointed out before this is one of the best episodes of the season, we get lots of lore about Guinan’s people, not to mention a little added background for Q with regards to his dealings with Guinan and of course we get the Borg. Yes this is the answer to who scooped up those out posts in the episode, the neutral zone. Originally they were going to write Q as over the top like how he was in hide and Q with apparently Q responding to when Riker snaps at him, he was supposed to jump up and yell stop or you will surely die in an over-the-top way but apparently John De Lancie and the Director figured that was too much and Had him just sit there and look at them and go “oh please” which improved the character. Also, this episode has a very ominous and creepy vibe to it. It culminates with the action, then unstoppable threat then a breath of fresh air at the very end very well done.

BORG….. sounds Swedish 🤖

One of the best episodes of season 2 as it’s a great callback to s1 the neutral zone… and seeing the enterprise getting chunks cut out of her by someone that is faster and stronger …. Wow

I think one of Picard's biggest strengths is his diplomatic experience. Encountering an overpowered species that doesn't respond to a lick of diplomacy, was a huge kick in the pants for him. He is more afraid and desperate in this episode than we've seen from him before I think. As he implies in the previous episode with his hand gesture, they are neck deep and over their heads once again. Lol

We are here. We've encountered....THE BORG. 🥰

A great episode, the introduction to a staple of Star Trek going forward, wonderful deep dive into Guinan's past, and a unique look into the inner structure of the enterprise.

I think this is a great episode so they will probably hate it 😂😂 But seriously, this is one episode I can watch over and over.

Congrats you have met the most Villainous species to date there's a whole non canon explanation about how they came about i'd go into detail but i was reminded that there is a canon spoiler in the explanation. i think yall are gonna love this one quite a bit.

Q!

An only ok episode that’s only good in retrospect, IMHO.

Almost horror. I love this episode

Well....here we are.

There are at least a few episodes each season where I eagerly await your reactions. This is definitely one of them.

I feel like Guinan is like Cassandra from Greek mythology constantly telling the crew to get the hell out of there and them just ignoring her. I do love that the tease for this was at the end of the first season finally comes back. For everyone who says season 2 sucks they forget this episode (as well as several others) are in season 2.

"Q Who?” or “Maybe I won’t accept the upgrade.” The motherfuckin’ BORG, y’all. As in, of course, CY-Borg. “The Borg is the ultimate user,” Q tells us. While the origins of bringing the Borg to the screen is based on an insect hive, it’s a very real commentary of our increasing dependence on technology on a personal level. (Apple Watch, anyone? Google Glass?) And the Borg, who it’s hinted have already made inroads into Federation (and Romulan) territory, have been given an invitation.

Predictions: -Happy to see Q again. -Intrigued by the interaction with Guinan and the mystery surrounding her. -Dead focused when the Borg show up. -Impressed by the Enterprise opening a can of whoop ass on the cube. -Terrified when it goes all Majin Buu and just heals up because they were just collecting data about the Enterprise's capabilities in a super gangster way. -Shocked by Picard swallowing his pride and begging Q for help. -Thinking Q had a cold but 100% valid point about people dying. -Realizing Q is really just helping in his own way. Question: What do you think the connection is between the colonies being wiped out in the S1 finale "The Neutral Zone" and this episode? If you're like me and need to know more about something interesting like the Borg and immediately hit the Google, don't. Let this one play out. You WILL run into spoilers in just about anything written about them. They are most terrifying because of the unknowns, let that cook for a little while.

what’s up with those cat claws Guinean displays like she can throw lightening

‘Please place your seats in the full upright position, Stowe all gear, And fasten all seat belts Hold ON!! were going in.”

Were you already spoiled to the Borg before this episode? What did you know of them before and how do you view them now? How do you think the Federation should react to such an encounter?

Season one's "Conspiracy" was actually not well received at the time and it's gore got it banned in certain markets so the ideas that were going to be followed up in that story got repurposed and became the Borg.

The "apple core" that the Borg cube slices out of the Enterprise contains one of the only toilets ever seen in Star Trek. Sadly it's too small to really make out on screen.

The plot thickens for Guinans lore. 😉

I think this is the point where TNG found it’s 4th gear. Enjoy it lads, it’s only going to get better from here

Q is absolutely right about Star fleet's arrogance. They create the most powerful ship they could which would respond to the most dangerous circumstances, and they kit it out like a luxury cruise ship and put families on it. Out of the 18 killed, how many were civilians that really shouldn't be there

Goof: When Guinan "has the other ship," she doesn't even actually touch the control panel in front of her.

This is my among my favorite episodes of the season, it had a creepy vibe that then became very threatening and the crew could do nothing to stop the borg, they were completely outclassed.

The original idea for 'Time Squared' was that the space vortex would appear at the start of this episode, followed by Q. Q had created this phenomenon as another test & way to screw around with Picard & crew. So the events in 'Time Squared' would now make sense by leading directly into this episode.

This episode and Measure of a Man are easily the two best episodes of season 2. Edit: deleted my previous edit… so tired I thought I had written in the Measure of a Man thread lol. Thx to ppl for not moking me and my adhd brain 😏😂👍🏻

I predict you will love this episode. It has all the good ingredients, a new threatening adversary, Q, a good touch on Human nature and their curiosity, and last but not least a somewhat heavy ending with the ominous realization looming over the Enterprise's future.

My prediction for you two. You'll like it but not love it. Not because there was anything wrong with the episode, but it just isn't the type of story you're as drawn to. For my part, the silhouette of that towering Borg cube was forever cemented in my brain the first time I saw it.

The Borg get all the focus, but this is an excellent Q episode. After a season and a half, the crew think they've bested Q and earned their right to travel the galaxy. Then Q comes back to show them just how unprepared they are.

I love the tension at the climax of the episode. You have the Borg ship in pursuit, the Enterprise's weapons doing nothing, while Q menacingly narrates how unstoppable the Borg are.

Budget constraints kept the Borg from being depicted as insectoids as Maurice Hurley had originally intended, though the hive concept survived to become the overwhelming group mind known as the Collective.

Characters, conflict, consequences, conundrums. This episode has it all. Revealing a little back story, finally seeing the Enterprise D in a real throw down, and it all being run by that sexy, sexy Q.

This is easily the most important episode of Season Two. Pay attention, lads. This episode was also written by Maurice Hurley... the guy who got Gates McFadden fired.

For me this is in my top 10 of the entire franchise. So many memorable lines and moments. Whoopi Goldberg and John De Lancie with Patrick Stewart are superb together in whatever combination. You get a sense that all involved gave 100% to this episode.

This episode was released on rental VHS in the UK shortly after the US broadcast. Unlike with season 1, Paramount just picked 4 strong episodes for VHS release. The first tape was “A Matter Of Honor” and “The Measure Of A Man” and the second was this episode (with the Borg on the cover) and another superb episode you’ll see in a week or two. This meant my impression of season 2 was rather warped as I hoped all episodes were as good as on those two tapes!

I remember you guys had heard of Q before getting into TNG, but what, if anything, had you heard of the Borg?

IMO, ending the action with a triumphant Q lecturing Picard is the most daring thing Star Trek has done since killing Spock. Question for you guys: Is TNG a better show if this story gets used for the pilot?

You guys are gonna love this one.

The seeds of the Borg were planted last season. The Borg were meant to be a hive of insects (hence Guinan’s line “they swarmed through our system”), and the scorpion like parasites from ‘Conspiracy’ were supposed to be related to them. But, portraying insectoids realistically would have been too expensive, so they became cyborgs instead. That being said, the Borg were teased in season 1’s The Neutral Zone, when Federation and Romulan colonies were scooped up by the unknown force.

Originally, this and Time Squared were going to be a two-parter, with the Picard from the future also being Q’s doing, but the stories were separated, leaving the vortex of the earlier episode a mystery.

This is one of the most consequential episodes for the future of the Star Trek universe, and also an excellent adventure. Q really does it to them this time ...

Prediction: your discussion video will be 90 minutes long.

So, about that Romulan threat... Honestly, I have always disliked the Q but this episode was one of the best uses of the character.

I hope you guys pick up on how this is what was hinted at in The Neutral Zone. Also, since you recently watched Total Recall, you might recognize that Ensign Sonya Gomez was the 3 breasted lady, played by Lacia Naff (probably botched the spelling of her name). I prefer her as Sonya over the three-fer.

You probably won't be Borg to death.

The turning point of the series,forget the romulans the borg are on another level

Whoopi Goldberg and John de Lancie have spent DECADES having to hear fan theories about their little face off. Supposedly the hand gestures were just “a little business they improvised on set”, but the fans let their fan theories run wild.

Let’s just say there’s gonna be more comments here than measure of a man

If season 3 is considered the turning point of the series, this has got to be the light at the end of the tunnel. Whomever came up with the idea of the Borg, I hope got a raise.

Could there be as many comments here as for The Measure of a Man? You want some fundamental/essential lore of the show, you’ll get it here. First “proper” use of Q here too, I feel. Enjoy!

oooh, hoo hoo... (shivers) The Borg.

This episode will change TNG forever!

This episode was probably TNG's biggest contribution to the cultural zeitgeist around Star Trek to this point. I really like resolution wasn't the crew winning on their own merit. but Picard humbling himself to Q. This ranks up there in my favourite Q episode and he was a legitimate threat and less trickster.

If either of you claim you’ve never heard of the Borg before, I won’t believe another word you say!

Q, and Guinan, and The Borg! Quintessential Trek!

You two are really going to dig this episode. It's pretty scary! And excellently written. The Borg are one of the most interesting, compelling adversaries in televised fiction!

Star Trek, usually about the bright potential of technology, but now looking at the dark side of it. And picking up on those threads from the S1 finale and it's missing outposts.

It’s Q! It’s the Borg! What the hell is Whoopi?

Question: So, do you guys recognize Ensign Sonya Gomez...?

Besides Measure of Man, this is probably the most anticipated episode of S2 for you guys to react to for most of us. It's a great introduction to Trek's most famous villains, and a good Q episode to boot. Also, I don't think this is a spoiler cuz it's never brought up again, but the mysterious aliens that destroyed the Federation and Romulan colonies at the end of S1 was meant to be the Borg, but due to behind the scenes issues (scheduling/budget?) Their introduction had to be delayed until later in S2. At least that's my understanding.

I predict you will love this episode and that you may have already heard of the Borg just from pop culture. You might recognize Ensign Sonya Gomez from Total Recall. She had an extra prosthetic in that movie that Gene probably wanted to use in TNG for Troi.

After seeing how the Borg act--excavating civilizations from worlds, slicing up ships for study, barely acknowledging individual humans they come in contact with, allowing Enterprise crew to walk around their cube-ship freely--what do you think their motivations are? What is the primary goal of the Borg?

I'd pay real money to see Guinen and Q throw down

Resistance is futile

Picard's line about "kicking us in our complacency" is clearly intended as a bit of meta dialogue aimed at the audience. A mission statement of sorts for the show itself as it continues to explore what it can be throughout Season 2. We're seeing some new shades of Q here as well. Originally envisioned as a wrote "trouble maker" "devilish" villain, he is evermore showing whispers of depth, and yet, one of his most sinister performances, sitting in the briefing room chair he says "Oh, please..." John de Lancie kills every line he's given. Thoughts on Guinan this episode?

Well here we are, The Borg. Q’s test of humanity continues, putting the Federation up against a mirror image of themselves. While one can take away the lesson that Q is trying to teach in this episode is having Picard ask for assistance when he runs into something the Enterprise can’t win against. The final moments between Picard Guinan where they both note “they will be coming” gives the audience the message The Borg will return, and when they do Q wont be able to snap them away.

Continuity!!! Not only from the pilot and Hide and Q but also finally solving the mystery to those crater-filled outposts in The Neutral Zone episode. As originally written, the Borg were supposed to show up in that episode but with a writer's strike, lack of time and budget, it remained a mystery ... until this episode. P.S. this is my 2nd favorite episode of season 2, right behind Measure of a Man.

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not SAFE out here!" Q gets all the best lines in this episode.

I love how after every mini-battle with the borg ship, in the midst of crazy high stakes brinksmanship… they have a quiet conference in the observation lounge.

"We are the new baddies. You will fear and admire us and acknowledge our iconic status. Resistance is futile."

Here's a question for you guys given your Trek connections: were all things equal for the situation, do you think Kirk would have had the same humility Picard had here asking Q for help at the end of the episode, especially with Kirk not believing in a no win scenario?

So glad you finally met the borg. Get ready for a wild ride boys.

9th highest ranked episode on IMDB. Trivia: Won a couple of Emmys for sound mixing and editing. Prediction: You’ll love the nods to continuity and the Q-Guinan backstory. 5-word review: Slight improvement on the Ferengi.

When I met John De Lancie, shortly after this episode was made, he told the audience it was his and Whoopi Goldberg's idea to make Q and Guinan old foes. With one of them saying something like "The fans will love it." De Lancie was still in a bit of shocked and touched how much love this part got him from fans. An actor who was used to going to show after show for a few years being a guest star without much notoriety. And it seemed that Q was just another one of those.

We've made it to the other Season 2 big episode! It's a Q episode of course, and he's here again to test our crew. We then get our introduction to the Borg. In a way, The Borg are the anti-Federation in what they are and what they represent thematically. Interested to hear Josh and Alex's thoughts on TNGs second attempt at a new alien enemy and how they compare to the Ferengi.

Do you think Q facilitated their first encounter just so they'd ask for his help/feel needed or did he arrange this because he'd developed an attachment to them and wanted to give them a chance to be ready for a future encounter?

The Borg are the perfect enemy for Picard. Up until now he’s usually defeated most his opponents through either negotiation or the Enterprise’s superior technology. Neither approach works on the Borg, so Picard has to change his approach.

This is Star Trek's version of that Fermi Paradox meme: what if the first intelligent signal we receive back from the cosmos says, "Quiet. They'll hear you." Something I noticed on a recent rewatch: Ensign Gomez starts the episode being very polite to an AI, and the rest of the episode is about AI being very impolite back.

Even though this is my first run through TNG, I’ve always knew about The Borg. I just didn’t know that they get introduced this early one. Fantastic episode!

Assuming you had heard of the Borg before, were you surprised that they showed up so early in the series?

He's baaaack...... So now you finally know what destroyed those outposts along the Neutral Zone in Season 1. The Borg are much more menacing than the Ferengi ever thought about being. Plenty of chilling moments in this one, but I always shudder at the Borgified baby. I have this one ranked as “Best of the Best”, number 4 of 5 in that category this season.

Absolutely loved that they took their two most fascinating recurring characters, Q and Guinan, and gave them a history and instant animosity. For a character drama it makes for an even richer set of circumstances and situations.