PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG S2E13
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
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- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
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Comments (66)
I love this episode all it takes is some funny time Shenanigans to get me on board. After that you have to actually ruin it for me to not like it and they don't ruin it here
I rather like this episode it’s weird and interesting which I think is kind of cool. I remember as a kid first watching it partway through and wondering why no one is reacting and being shocked that there are to Picard’s also, I love how at the end chief O’Brien just walks into the shuttle be for no reason with Pulaski.
This is not going to be a great Target Audience week for me.
Pretty existential moment when you have to kill yourself. I'd say Picard handled it pretty well. Fun fact! Patrick Stewart used to have an identical twin. :X
“Time Squared” or “🎶I Learned to stay true to myself/By watching myself die!🎶” Two Captains, no waiting: A really well-done Picard episode that, I always thought showed how hard a starship captain can be on themselves. Picard is literally yelling at himself about the choices that he will make that will doom his ship and crew but seemingly save himself. He takes his station very seriously, and it shows here more than ever.
Funny how episode 13 turns out to be a space ghost story. This was one of those episodes that was way better than I remembered. Very creepy even though I knew the ending.
An extremely messy and uneven episode but I like it simply for the eerie atmosphere. It's part of a series of season 2 eps along with "Where Silence Has Lease" and "the Royale" that provide a level of isolation, fear, and a general perception for how massive and unknown our universe is. These kinds of Twilight Zone esque episodes quickly disappear from star trek after this; as the world of the show gets larger and more familiar to the audience and characters, that aspect of creepiness/mystery is lost. So while I do think all three of these episodes kind of fall apart in the third acts, I still miss the unique atmosphere they were able to capture.
The ending doesn’t make much sense but love the dark foreboding tone to this episode. The distorted shuttle footage chilled me to the bone as a kid - the music, the acting, the camera work on the isolated Riker. A great spin on a time travel episode.
I increasingly realize/remember how scary a lot of TNG was for me when it first aired. Especially the early episodes that are either a bit nonsensical or have characters possesed or acting weird.
Weird. Just weird. Not in an interesting Trek weird way. I guess it was just okay. I did like it a lot the first time I watched in in 88. But it’s not hugely rewatchable. Just okay.
Maurice Hurley wrote this episode with Q as the cause of the events that happen in this episode, but Gene didn’t like it so Hurley had to eliminate the Q portions. So if this episode is a little weird to you it’s cause it’s missing a whole plot line.
I'm glad it's Q-less.
This episode is ok.
I'm still not sure I understand how this time travel is supposed to work. But that's now one weird time travel twist episode per season. I do think I preferred the time shenanigans in "We'll Always Have Paris" a bit more.
The entity behind the vortex was able to send Picard and his shuttle (or copies of them) back in time just enough to, in its view, give the crew something to think about. In doing so, it altered the inherent properties of matter and Picard's mind where things became "negative" or opposite, in some ways similar to antimatter, but more like anti-time-matter. That "anti-time" factor was greatest when the shuttle first appeared in their time, and reduced to zero at the point where the ship would have been destroyed [if the other Picard had left]. I guess this episode could have been over with pretty quickly if Pulaski had let the other Picard die in sickbay when the stimulant acted as a depressant on him. The real question is, as "our" Picard ended up not leaving the ship, where did the thrown-back-in-time Picard and shuttle El Baz come from? This is an example of a classic time travel paradox, and the story wisely does not attempt to answer that question.
Always feels like a season one episode. I don't totally get why Picard seems to so intensely hate "himself". I guess it represents how he is his own worse critic, how he hates that "he" made the wrong choice. And his apparently shooting himself at the kill setting is kinda weird. Why not maximum stun? I guess if ends up being a mote point since that version disappears once the time loop is broken anyhow...still....was that murder or suicide? Lol?
Picard's over-reaction to his other self (to the point of it raising questions about his correct focus while in command) was always a problem for me. This is not the time to react from wounded pride and deflation of his self-image.
Star date: 42679.2. En route to dndicore The scene where the Enterprise is hurdling through the vortex and there is a view from the starboard side the detail on the ship is higher than ever before, and there is some apparent level of wearing and the ship looks more real, to me at the time I thought this was when they abandoned cgi. (Which I have long since learned was never employed in the series in that way.). Prior to this episode the ship looked a little fuzzy and beyond smooth a problem Star Wars episode one had with those yellow ships from Naboo in the. Direct sunlight the sfx guys had to do a lot complex math to rough up the surface to create natural light reflections Does anybody else think the ship looks sharper?
I have recently read that midway through season 2 The Enterprise Shooting model was altered to accommodate 10 forward. This is a story I have read after I lost my sight So, I cannot verify it. But it might explain my observation.
I've always liked the split screens and double work in this episode. Like the scene where Picard 1 enters the shuttle bay, followed by Picard 2. Then they kill the split screen and pan around to the back of Stewart's double walking to the console and Stewart walking towards the double. In HD, the tell tale signs of the double are the sprayed gray side hair.
Teleplay writer Maurice Hurley commented, "We've seen a lot of people do time backs and forths and jumps around. They're always coming back 500 years or 1,000 years. Nobody's ever really come back six hours. Six hours is what fascinated me."
Heinlein's long short story 'By His Bootstraps' has time travel varying from a few hours to several decades.
This episode is one of the best of the second season. It does a good job of making us starting to doubt Picard - Would he really abandon the Enterprise like that? I like everything about it including how they chose to solve it.
"Well, it made sense at the time..."
Despite a slower pace and a somewhat thin premise, I've always enjoyed this one for its mysterious atmosphere and a great performance from Patrick Stewart portraying the Captain in what was clearly a very surreal and personally unnerving experience for him. And while both "The Royale" and this have a very Twilight Zone feel to them, this one gets it across much more effectively, building and sustaining the tension and bizarre nature of the situation our crew (and especially the Captain) find themselves in. A bit of trivia: this episode was originally written to be the first part of a two-parter that would have explained the time vortex, but Roddenberry apparently nixed that idea.
Oh Thrill Oh Joy Josh! A Time Ep....I hope you like this one, at least this one has something for Alex....Colm! I can take or leave this one and I have no clue if you both will like it or just parts of it. That's it! 🤨🖖
I guess in the 23rd century, human beings have forgotten the differences between scrambled eggs and omelets.
Riker's trash eggs in the teaser were all the foreshadowing this episode needed.
Dr. Pulaski had one of the funniest lines in all of Star Trek ... and it wasn't even a word. In the teaser, and after just ONE bite of Owan egg, with a squenched up face she uttered the sound..... "MMMph!"
Fun Fact: some lazy intern at the BBC took a pic of the wormhole from this episode off of Google images to make a promotional poster for "Doctor Who". You can even see the Enterprise if you zoom in on the poster!
That just goes to show how far that show has fallen...
The scene between Troi and Pulaski in sick bay (after Pulaski says she might have to relieve Picard of duty) has always struck me as odd. Maybe it’s just me, but it’s like the actresses are not at all on the same page (Troi is very combative, Pulaski is reserved and seems genuinely worried.) I like debate, but this comes across more like the director didn’t convey how he wanted the scene played. 🤷♂️
It's a weird and tense scene but I feel like it's emphasizing the underlying character dilemma: newcomer Pulaski sees the Picard who is on the verge of snapping; familiar Troi sees the Picard who will do whatever it takes not to become that person.
I enjoy the episode, but the time travel feels not well thought out. Why does the Enterprise get destroyed, but not when they turn around? If it doesn't want Picard to leave, then why does it attack him (them)? Since it's the duplicate Picard in the duplicate shuttle who decides to leave, they have no origin, creating a paradox.
I like that this episode leaves some mystery by not explaining everything, while being just plausible enough.
Picard doing what it takes to save The Enterprise includes shooting and killing his future self if needed! I didn’t see that coming, awesome episode!
So who’s the better captain? Picard or Picard?
The original Picard from several hours in the future. 'Our' Picard (who we follow from the episode's opening) reacts too strongly to that other Picard from wounded pride.
This episode has grown on me to the point that it's one of my favorites from season 2. Really looking forward to seeing your take on how they, um, resolve their problem in this episode.
Riker’s eggs - legendary.
Legendary omelettes consisting of... just eggs... 🤦 🙄
I've never cared much for this episode, its like it should have been longer with more deep substance but ended up just dipping its to in enough to interest you without actually making it fulfilling at the end. Like drinking water with a lemon in it.
I hope you guys are watching the credits. Shoutouts to Al Smutko and Lolita Fatjo. (ROTFL—I can't help it, those names are just hilarious. My sympathies.)
Prediction: You're going to notice and enjoy the score in this one.
I know I did.
Tech Heads-up: We get an interesting view of a tractor beam emitter up close in the shuttle bay.. and we get to see a nice medical gurney. Just one nagging question: How can the shuttle's door open if the shuttle has no power?
Springs. :)
Prediction: You both are going to find this one a wild ride and you're going to love it! Time travel is a tricky thing to write about and this is a very novel approach. The resolution is a bit... weird. Seems really out of left field.
This is a REALLY trippy episode. This is another one I've been looking forward to the guys watching and reacting to. I think it's in my top 10, if only because it's so surreal. My favorite part is when Riker tells Picard, "Captain? You on the Bridge?" "Well, right now, I think you should be in Shuttle Bay 2." Sometimes shuttle-Picard doesn't look quite like Picard, even when they're not in the same shot! (Especially when he's still in the shuttle.)
I've always really liked this one. Love that the time travel shenanigans was only over a few hours rather than the usual....much longer than that. Quite the moment from Picard there too on deciding how to "end the cycle"
I liked this back when it first aired and still do today. One of the better Season 2 episodes in my view and different from the "usual" time travel stuff Star Trek tends to do, which while many of those are good, this is more original.
Love these unrelated intros that show everyday life of the crew. Riker cooking, Data deciding to have a beard, a poker night...
I love the personal moment segments in this season. A holodeck training, a poker game, and here we have Riker cooking for his comrades. Great character development and performances in this episode.
Whenever Star Trek starts messing with time travel, I'm hooked, even if this episode isn't one of the more memorable time travel episodes. What are your thoughts on time travel episodes so far (TNG or all of Trek)?
This is one of my favorites. The tension and suspense throughout this episode are simply DELICIOUS. (Unlike Riker's omelet.) Great score as well - it really enhances the eerieness.
What flavor is tension and suspense?
O'Brien seemed pretty chill walking in and seeing a murdered Picard 😅
So, here's my questions... How does Riker screw up the eggs? Either these eggs came out of an actual chicken, and thus its just his cooking that sucks... Or somehow the replicated eggs got screwed up? This question has haunted me, forever.
They weren't replicated eggs, or at least they weren't replicated on the Enterprise. He picked them up at a starbase.
Enjoyed the opening with the eggs only Worf loves and the rest is an engaging time loop story focusing on Picard's disgust at what his future self might represent.
How do we REALLY know which Picard shot the other and took command? Food for thought!
The dialogue doesn't seem ambiguous to me.
I've long been puzzled by how strongly Picard acts to close the loop. Why do you think he went so far as to actually kill his future self instead of just stunning him or locking him up?
Somebody make Worf another omelette! This one is more or less middle of the road for me. I have it ranked as “Time Filler With Good Moments”, such as when Picard has to kill his other self from the future. That would feel pretty bizarre for anyone, let alone for our Jean-Luc.
I think that is a fair assessment.
P is for pork. As in Wesley wanted to pork that Sasquatch girl.