FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E8 - Matter of Honor
Comments (49)
Riker and worf Friends….hmm
Picard & Worf are ride or die. Riker & Worf are just bros. Idk if Worf even likes the rest of the crew.
They said they were in the phaser training range
This is definitely one of the best episodes of S2. I think you guys have mentioned before that you've seen X-Files so I don't think this is a spoiler, but fun fact is the actor who plays Klag in this episode is the same one who plays the recurring shapeshifting Alien Bounty Hunter in that show. He's a great character actor who's been in a lot of stuff.
Yes!! The great Brian Thompson!
You have been wrestling as Federation. I think it is time you switch sides and embrace your Klingon Warrior side.. That Bird of Prey is the Chef Kiss...
Glad you loved this episode. This episode cemented even more for me the fact that this show had found its footing and was going to be both different (than TOS) and good. Frakes really impresses me with his performance in this episode. One thing I enjoyed about TNG more than TOS was the more ensemble cast where everyone gets more of a chance to shine as opposed to it always being about the big 3 (and occasionally Scotty).
I 'get' how profound TOS was, but I generally don't care for the show. I can admire Gene's vision of a hopeful future for humanity while being appalled at its nagging, childish propensity for fisticuffs (and overacting). TOS wanted to be a soap opera in space without the soap with an ounce of heart and intellectually vapid soapboxing. TNG largely did away with all that, which I really appreciate. Ironically, the most fisticuffs the TNG crew gets into has been when Q is around and sets them up for it.
Could be wrong but I think you guys missed that the bacteria was discovered and brought to Picard's attention only when it was eating into the Enterprise. The scans Picard ordered were scans of the Enterprise's infection. There was a superb shot looking out from the back of the saucer down onto the top of the hull between the nacelles which I think happened when you were looking away.
I've always thought that this was Gene wanting to explore the issues of immigration and our capacity to overcome incompatibilities via cultural assimilation and integration. I know Gene didn't write the script, but the scene with Riker in the klingon mess hall embodied his original Star Trek vision of humanity. It was almost like an ancient Greek fable playing out in front of us, and the bit where he says until now I never knew how to eat Gagh and takes a mouth full is reminiscent of Guinan's interactions with the crew that we've seen up to now. Unfortunately, the Captain embodied the spectacular failures of 20th century immigration and how the smouldering embers of past wars can burst into flames if a handful of men f*** it up.
It's noteworthy: They loved this episode so much, they didn't even notice that Troi wasn't there at all.
Or LaForge! Of course, Troi could have foiled the whole plot by sensing the nearby angry Klingons...
From Memory Alpha: According to prop master Alan Sims, the gagh was actually long brown noodles, while the rokeg blood pie was turnips in pumpkin pies, dyed red. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion (2nd ed., p. 75)) He used chicken feet as pipius claw, animal organs as heart of targ, and other things such as fish, eyes, squid, and octopus. Most of the things Sims bought at the Asian market.
He did an outstanding job! Deserving of the Emmy for Best Alien Gross Cuisine Design!
All I'll say is, it's a looong wait til next episode...
Thats one thing I love with the juxtaposition (great word) of the two ships. The USS Enterprise is an exploration ship capable in war while the IKS Pagh is a war ship capable of exploration.
Did you miss he iconic "One or both?" line or wasn't it that outstanding for you? You didn't mention it whether in the reaction nor the discussion.
Alex, very good point that sometimes it's nice to have opening hooks where nothing's gone wrong and in fact something positive is being looked forward to
The thing about season two is that there are a few mediocre episodes. They’re either phenomenal or clunkers.
This is such a great episode. Without spoilers it really establishes a lot of the Klingon lore.
Love the Bird of Prey out the windows! Please tell me you plan to continue putting something out there related to the episode!
Not every episode, but sometimes
Picard vs. Riker! Picard channels his season 1 self and instantly surrenders.
Because Captain Riker is still Q? (LOL!) [Picard surrendered to Q pretty fast too in S1E1; Q tried making Riker a Q in S1E10]
I like Worf and Riker's friendship too! There are some great episodes showcasing it. Very layered!
Picard and Riker's friendship or camaraderie is on display, too.
Mendon did say he was part of the same… erm… family type unit, so that’s why he looks similar
The original line was supposed to be "Michael Westmore couldn't be bothered trying to put this face on a new actor" but they changed it on the day of filming.
21:05 TNG is not structured that way. Picard is not the lead character. The ship is the lead character. The bridge crew just tags along for the LOLs.
For the series night court Spiner’s family “The Wheeler’s” were supposed to be a one shot but the delivery and characterization Spiner brought to the character caused “night court” to bring the wheelers back several times that season and had plans to include them as regulars but at the last minute he left for TNG
15:55 That is my only real problem with the episode. If the Klingon–Federation alliance were truly that fragile, in jeopardy by one paranoid captain, it wouldn't last a year. Maybe not even a month. It's just not logical to have Kargan behave in that manner. But the rest of it was pretty well done.
I think it's still pretty believable and works because, after all, a Starfleet officer has never served on a klingon ship before. This is a unique, completely out of the norm circumstance. So nothing has popped off yet, but as Josh said the peace is on thin ice. Further, maybe there has been some conflicts between other ships but Starfleet and the klingons have been able to preserve the treaty with some fast talking and/or cover ups
To indulge your enjoyment of Data/Brent spiner This is a clip of Spiner before TNG. This is from night court the year before TNG https://youtu.be/bjWxNiA_ciU?si=eA2UO4HEX3vstrhr
Fun fact: Captain Kargan was played by Christopher Collins (also known as Chris Latta)... the original voice of both Cobra Commander on GI JOE: A Real American Hero and Starscream on The Transformers (both Hasbro/Marvel Productions/Sunbow cartoons of the 1980s).
And the original Mr. Burns, eventually replaced by Harry Shearer. It’s almost impossible to tell the difference I think maybe Shearer was just doing a Latta impression.?
Loving the Bird of Prey in the window. Good touch.
5:25 On this topic, I've always thought it was weird that Riker was wearing a Star Fleet uniform on a Klingon ship, but Mendon was wearing a Star Fleet uniform on the Enterprise.
A missed opportunity to see Riker in a Klingon uniform!
2:25 That is not a holodeck. It's a specialized room for phaser practice and training. Being very dark, it's a cheap set to build.
It does prompt the question of why you need it if you have a holodeck. Best I don't think about it too hard.
2:43 This actually comes from the Phase 2 Writer's Bible. Gene wanted it clear up front we were going to spend more down time with the crew, and I think that idea was one of many translated over from Phase 2 for TNG. The idea being not every story has to be some super dramatic thing, it can be a character piece/slice of life. It's also, in a general sense, what Star Trek is about. Showing us what the life of this future could be. The Holodeck is just one of those "toys" that offers so many opportunities for different kinds of play... Along with things we wont get into because of spoilers, but... Yeah, this is one of my favorite season 2 episodes. Not THE best, but definitely up there.
This episode created optimism that the show would find its feet. Frakes is great once he is given something to really work with. Maybe Riker's talk with the Klingon whose father was disgraced is pushing things along too quickly, but I can't fault the sentiment. Also, Riker's comment to Worf at the end is a fine way to wrap up.
0:16 That isn't what racism is. 1:18 That posture is called cockiness.
Once again, all these episode are "before my time" (only seen on repeats, and THIS one, only once), so I'm really struggling for things to say! Much better than I remember though... or maybe it's the shared experience that I enjoyed more
“This is the first good episode of TNG”.. Just kidding, but seriously a solid episode with a great script, and bearded Riker in full force.
"WOKE GARBAGE!!!"
This episode has me so hyped when I first saw it, and nothing changed my mind since. This was the first GREAT episode in my opinion. More to come.
This is the first episode and one of three this season that are as good as anything in the series. (IMDB has it 44th.) I was 12 when I saw it and I’m jealous you got to watch it for the first time. :)
If there are 43 episodes better than this then it has to be the best show of all time