PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG - Season 2 Episode 6
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment.
If you want your take to be read in the video, comment ONE of the following:
- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments (60)
I forgot the Fun Fact: I noticed something about this Ep. that I never recognized before. The actor William Morgan Sheppard is a main Character in a PC Game I used to play from 1994 I think. It was Called Zork Nemesis and was one of the first to use Video Cut Scenes and in other parts of a game. 😀🖖
he voiced the character Ignatius Cheese in Escape From Monkey Island!
Well this one you guys may or may not like depends on how you feel about Dr. Graves! He acts more like he is from this century, also another Vulcan but with a lot more lines! 😀🖖
Another great job by Brent Spiner, again playing... Data who is not Data. A different type of performance from when he did something similar with Lore. Morgan Sheppard was only in a small part of the episode, but he gave Spiner so much to incorporate! I really appreciate that Ira Graves was not inherently evil or violent, just merely a "creep," and eventually saw that he could no longer control himself and voluntarily gave up. No one forced him out of Data. He simply came to realize this was a life he wouldn't really be able to live. That was a nice touch.
Nimoy said that he developed depression from playing Spock and having to contain his emotions so much on set. I wonder if episodes like this were encouraged so that Spiner could get some relief from performing in a similar way as Data?
Absolutely fantastic guest stars! Susie Plackson plays different characters of different races (many guest stars do this!) in her guest appearances on TNG, and she kills it every time.
Spoilery territory. To truly be spoiler free, we need to pretend that no further episodes of the show have aired yet and that none of us know what is going to happen, who is going to appear, or which characters or actors will or will not reappear.
I would say that Mel Torme's son wrote this episode, but you probably don't know who that is.
No disrespect to Mel Torme but I think the only reason I know about him is I watched Night Court as a kid...and I'm about 15 years older than these guys.....
The actress who plays the Vulcan, Dr. Lieutenant is great. I hope we see her again in the show.
Indeed. In a skin tight outfit.
Probably the best episode since “Elementary Dear Data” but this is the third episode in row where the guest star almost immediately starts flirting with a female member of the crew. This season is a lot hornier than I remember.
Truth be told, geniuses are typically very horny people. There's a definite correlation with high IQ and sexual lust/appetite.
The first time we see a Vulcan have a speaking role in this show, creates hope for the future:-)
Technically the Vulcan Starfleet academy candidate in Coming of Age had a few lines, but admittedly it wasn't much.
I never really liked this episode before and so I haven't watched it in a very long time. Since it was on H&I just a couple of nights ago, I thought what the heck, I'll watch it again. It's not nearly as bad as I remembered. Actually it's a lot better than I remembered.
It's funny you mention that, I see H&I is just a bit ahead of the guys here. That tickled me the other day.
I think you'll like this one. The show is still not up to it's future offerings but you can see that things were starting to come together.
Not many planets visited by the Enterprise that have a distinctive ring system.
This episode is cool in that it features W. Morgan Sheppard as Ira Graves who is a prolific sci-fi actor (Seaquest DSV, Babylon 5, Quantum Leap, & Doctor Who) as well as a bunch of non sci-fi stuff. It also features Suzie Plakson as Dr. Selar showing that the Enterprise has more than one doctor. Overall having Graves transfer his mind to Data was a fun concept, but it’s not one of my favorite episodes.
Hindsight: Kinda shocking none of the bridge crew has slept with or had a prior romantic relationship with anyone on the planet this time.
Data: NOT the best beard of the 24th century! LOL!
"I would not come up here, if I were you, captain. You might not like it!" Always makes me laugh.
I think he actually says "I might not like it" :)
I didn't enjoy this one. It was too cliché and predictable for me to enjoy. I think I've only seen it twice—this will be the third time. Props to Spiner's acting, I guess, but I don't find Graves-Data to be enthralling, entertaining, or exciting. He's just an even-more spoiled form of Lore! One of the more boring and uninteresting stories of the entire series that I can think of. And the reaction of Data's shipmates to his changed behavior is pathetic and not in the least plausible.
OMG: Jovet, you just hit on something I never thought of: your comment that Graves is "just an even-more-spoiled form of Lore" ..... could it be that Graves, as one of Soong's [contemporaries], had enough influence over how Soong crafted Lore that it was what led to Lore's deactivation when he went off the deep end, as it were? Hmm...........
Susie Plakson is always a welcome guest star. I'd love to see more of Dr. Selar. Also, always fun to take the reigns off Spiner!
This episode is otherwise not that notable, but we do get some Suzie Plakson. Love me some Suzie Plakson
She's my fave guest actor on the show by far!
W. Morgan Shepard is one of my favorite ST guest actors. He’s a little over the top here, but he pours a lot of personality into a small part. Brent Spiner has another chance to play “not-Data.” He’s fantastic at portraying different characters with the same face, but it’s a little obvious that he’s possessed from the start. Note the subtle visual effect at the beginning, where Pulaski gets on the turbolift in the corridor and exits onto the bridge.
like Leonard Nimoy he's also the narrater in the Civilization pc games
Dr. Selar...what did you guys think of her? Would you like to see more of her in the future? If so doing what?
Someone already gave a spoiler on that one. The cretin.
Probably a 22 year gap between when I saw this episode as a kid and then again as an adult, but I never forgot the "to know him is to love him is to know him" part because it's just weird, man...
Ahh, Dr. Selar, how intriguing a character. But a weird episode. Least it lets Spiner out of his Data shell a bit.
The teaser features a scene of Dr. Pulaski taking the turbolift on a corridor and arriving to the bridge in the same shot. This was achieved by the creative use of bluescreen, projecting the ship's corridor, then the bridge into the background when the turbolift doors close and open.
That kind of film trick was used in TOS's second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" when Gary Mitchell, in the FIRST scene after the opening theme song, runs into the turbo lift to join Kirk and Spock who are already inside the car. The scene shows a crane shot [above the ceiling grating] camera angle as Gary runs in the opened door, then cuts to a different angle inside the Lift. As the camera angle changes at that point, to show him joining Kirk and Spock, we see the bulkhead of a CORRIDOR WALL just as the door closes. Their conversation is about the 3-D chess game, then as the lift slows (the lights showing fast movement of the car), the door opens and -- WITHOUT A CUT -- they step out onto the bridge [set]. It would later be realized they just filmed the entire scene from the bridge set, but when Gary first enters, a false backdrop is just outside the door to hide it's on the bridge, and is removed as they carry on the conversation in the Lift. The backdrop is simply pulled away during their conversation inside the Lift so when it opens, we're "on the bridge" when before we were Below Decks. COOL, HUH?? And, cheap, too: it would have cost Desilu only the regular day-pay for a stage-hand.
Schizoid factoid: The Sixties sci-fi series “The Prisoner” also had an episode called “The Schizoid Man” that had nothing to do with this episode whatsoever.
From memory, Patrick McGoohan was the first choice to play Graves, which is probably why the episode titles match. McGoohan would have been great, but the actor they did cast does a fine job.
This one has it's moments, but was one of those "meh" episodes to me. The only true defining part of this one is Suzy Plakson playing the Vulcan doctor. She is hot hot hot.
A man of exceptional taste.
To know this episode, is to love this episode. Perhaps its only flaw is that it is too selfless. Truly, an episode for all seasons. Vulcan babe.
Haha! xD
Data turns into Riker and later turns into an arrogant horny old scientist
This is one I don't recall a lot about. I have it ranked as "Time Filler With Good Moments". I was never sure if they left Graves in the computer system or what they did with his intelligence.
W. Morgan Sheppard, who played Dr. Ira Graves, has a HUGE filmography of memorable characters across a 50 year career spanning every genre. It's always a pleasure when he pops up in a guest starring role in whatever show you're watching. (edit) If you watch enough TNG-era Trek, you'll notice they often re-use certain actors from time to time to play different guest characters, usually aliens. Not every actor has what it takes to sit still in the makeup chair for 3 hours while they are transformed into another species. If you find yourself asking "Hey! Didn't the guy playing this Romulan also play a Klingon back in season 1?", the answer to your question is probably "Yes".
Sheppard is the first actor the Target Audience have seen in Star Trek who also appeared in Doctor Who (although John de Lancie appeared on the Doctor Who spinoff Torchwood).
Data’s eulogy for Graves is one of the funniest scenes in TNG. To know it is to love it.
Yes! 😄
I find it interesting how differently Dr. Graves and Dr. Soong, both cyberneticists, thought and went about their work. In one of the episode’s last scenes with Graves/Data and Picard in Engineering Graves reveals his mindset about an android like Data: “Before me, he was nothing. Just a walking tin can with circuits for intestines. Pathetic.” I find it astounding to hear a cyberneticist talk like that. If anything it shows the stark contrast to how Dr. Soong viewed his work. Not only did he actually build an android that is capable of emotions but through Lore he also understood that building an android that can feel is not the immediate goal. For him an android was valuable even without emotions and he trusted in his creation's ability to learn and adapt. Seeing how Grave's personality is portrayed in the episode I think there's a lot of bitterness and envy regarding Soong's work. Dr. Pulaski said in her medical log in the beginning that Dr. Graves is arguably the greatest human mind in the universe. I have to disagree there and I would say that in cybernetics Dr. Soong achieved way more.
[SPOILER REDACTED]
Data’s Grandpa?
I love Brent Spiner in this, he's so destined for these kind of roles. I'm glad they give him so many opportunities to show off his acting skills.
Wow, the tension between Picard and Data was very well played out! Picard sensed something was off from the start.. and he was able to convince Graves into giving back his friend.. well after he was knocked out! Good episode!
I have a little recollection of this episode. Overaall, I think it was okay, but certainly not great. Seeing a Vulcan character play a more active role in an episode was refreshing - I liked Dr. Selar.
Doctor Selar is awesome
Prediction: You’re disappointed Data didn’t keep the beard for the rest of the episode.
Series*
MOAR DOCTOR SELAR NAO.
Third hottest Vulcan behind Spock and the one I cannot name because spoilers lol.