UNCUT - Star Trek: First Contact (1996) | Star Trek Journey 439
MOVIE NOT INCLUDED. YOU MUST SYNC YOUR OWN COPY OF THE MOVIE.
Comments (243)
And you people... You're both reactors, representing some kind of... Target Audience?
RIP Captain Picard !!! Patrick Stewart has died at the age of 86. This will always be one of his Best Movies!!! I recommend you release your reaction to first contact ASAP!!!!
Cochran did say in Metamorphosis "I don't know how it did it but the companion rejuvenated me young again like I am now." Also "I haven't aged, the companion sees to that". Have we seen much/all of the Delta Quadrant?
Not a Lily fan myself, although I am surprised to see so many in the comments defend her. Good for her I guess
This is my favourite Trek film for a number of reasons. I wish I wasn't so bogged down in various things that I'm only commenting on it now(didn't even get around to leaving a patron take), though I will say I'm glad you did at least enjoy the movie. Being tied for 3rd place is better than I hoped for, even if I rate it higher. I'll leave more in depth comments on the discussion and takes videos which I'm going to watch now.
When the movie was released, DS9 was peaking in popularity, and there was speculation (from fans) that perhaps Sisko would make an appearance. Jonathan Frakes has said he was aware of that, and that's why when the Defiant appears, we just see an African-American hand grab a console before it's revealed as Worf. It was a little good-natured teasing of the fans by Frakes.
"They just happen to be there the day before First Contact". Sigh.
Well, you see, when you talk over something you are supposed to be paying attention to, you tend to miss things like Picard saying, "that's what they came here to do, stop first contact" but what do I know.
What? Alfre Woodard is the best
I really like Lily. Yes, definitely need more Troi and Crusher.
Ben Wyatt bay-bee!!! And the Federation Battleship lookin sexy up there.
Hawk as Lavelle is now my head cannon as well. That would have been amazing in a movie that was so joyful with its continuity inserts. The implication of course being that Nurse Ogawa and Taurix are the last two of the original four. I'd watch that post credit scene in eleven-forward: Ben interrupts the mood and offers a toast, "To the heroes of the hour, lost but never forgotten"
Imagine if the observation lounge was on deck 7, section 11, so in their off hours the crew hangs out at 7-11.
The writer’s commentary with Braga and Moore is worth listening to. This movie is what lead to their separation as writing partners. They are amicable about it now, but this movie was the straw that broke the camel’s back after a decade.
My order of best to worst Star Trek movie to date: 1) Star Trek IV 2) Star Trek II 3) First Contact 4) Star Trek VI 5) Generations 6) Star Trek III 7) Star Trek: The Motion Picture 8) Star Trek V
congrats to the half way mark. For me First contact sits on Place 3 for the Films. (Place 1 Wrath of Khan) Place 2 is coming with the next Movie ST9.
I don't think I have ever heard anyone place ST9 above First Contact. I disagree, I think first contact is better but happy to see there are people out there that like it. ST9 gets a lot of hate for no reason I feel. It was a great movie.
Lily is probably the worst thing about the movie, especially if you imagine the line about Picard's "little broken ships" being delivered by Guinan. Sure, we could have saved Lily, she could have been the frightened girl running about the ship, but Guinan would have been the perfect one to confront Picard on his obsession, and she's not in this film.
Josh: How do you feel about the E? Alex: Don't like it as much as the D Josh: Nothing will ever be as good as the D This is the correct answer. The D has all the curves, she's majestic, glorious and COMFY. The E is a sports car, pretty sleek, fast, cool, but lacking in the rest.
I really love this movie. The only thing that I would actually want changed, is for it to take place on the Enterprise-D. I feel like it would have really helped put the audience on Picard's side, initially, with his refusal to sacrifice the ship and wanting to stay and fight at all costs. We as the audience just would have had so much more attachment to the ship we'd spent 7 seasons of adventures with on TNG instead of a ship we first saw an hour and a half ago. They attempt to transplant those sentiments to the "E" with Picard's line, "actually, I've come to think of this ship as home," but that just isn't the same. It's not really anything that detracts from the movie, but I do think a few of the emotional beats would've landed harder if it had taken place on the Enterprise-D.
I felt tremendous attachment to the E. She's a secy sleek badass ship that crippled both a sphere and cube right off the bat. One of the strongest ships in the entire galaxy. I do prefer the Galaxy bridge but the E is designed for efficiency and wartime operations.
Yeah, I almost brought up in the Patron Takes that Star Trek already did Moby Dick in Wrath of Khan. It's kind of weird that they're doing it again.
>Now imagine that scene with one of our pre-established characters. Yep.
This is my favourite TNG movie but I totally agree on the Lily character, I get what they were going for, having it be this new person, an unknown who doesnt have the respect and loyalty to Picard to call him out.....BUT I dont think there was anywhere near enough development of their dynamic nor of Lily being likeable to justify that resolution. Frakes at this point was much more interested in directing than acting which is why I think hes not as visible a presence in this film which is.a shame but I get it. It would have been great to get a few more scenes with Crusher and Deanna, ideally I would've replaced Lily with Crusher for the breakdown and rage in the ready room.
There are 400 replies here so I have no idea if anyone mentioned this: the reason Borg sounded Swedish is because one of the most famous tennis player of all time was Bjorn Borg from Sweden. He helped put tennis on the map in the 70s and early 80s.
Ah nice
Watching this again I remember why this was goodish but not great: James Cromwell is annoying in everything he's in, and Alfre Woodard isn't far behind. It looks great but that isn't enough. The villain is ok but she doesn't do too much, just talking everyone's ear off. A story is only as good as the villain in it, and this one just didn't have much to do, and was content to just yap away. The walking and fight on the ship scene was the best part, but Stewart is no action hero and this movie shows his limitations. This is a 7.
The scene on the outside of the ship is the part that breaks new ground for Trek (other than the movie being much more violent than before).
"imagine a borg horror film" well...
guys. honestly. maybe you could make the scenes to sync up just a tiny bit longer.
Usually I can sync up pretty well from just the blurred image. Get the source material to around the same time stamp, and watch for any scene change. If you're going from a dark to a bright scene it'll stand out, or like Picard's bald head and grey uniform with flashing red alert lights show up even in the blurred image enough to know what scene it is. Then as you're playing the reaction and source material, whichever one switches scenes first, do a little pause and unpause to sync them up.
by FAR my favorite star trek movie not even a competition makes sense you think its "as good" as wrath of kahn from the classic star trek movies, wrath of khan and first contact are the two highest rated movies, with nearly the same score so they seem to go to the same audience you not liking it as much as other movies then is personal preference, they being the two most liked movies shows some decicions you not liked werent wrong, its just a different taste
as you wont be able to check out the magic the gathering star trek decks because it includes characters from future shows, maybe we should make you two a magic star trek deck each just of characters from episodes and shows you already know xD
I do wonder if it was your (TA) Mek'Leth prop used in this movie. They re-use these props often, just because it's labeled DS9 Prop doesn't mean it wasn't used in TNG, then DS9 , Then First Contact, then back to DS9 where it was labeled that because it was last used by DS9. FYI: According to GOOGLE AI, Mek'Leth was'nt used in TNG. It was created for DS9 , Used in First Contact, then Back to DS9.... So your Mek'Leth has a high chance of being the one in the MOVIE!!!
Usually they have 1 version designed for closeups to looks as good/real as possible, and another rubberized version for stunts/fight scenes. Not sure which they have, but likely both were used in the film.
Enjoyed the reaction, guys. Although I like Generations more than many, this is the Star Trek movie that hits me the most. I don't actually disagree with many of your critiques but it's still my favorite. The music instantly brings me back. Also, this is the first time I've noticed Lily in the background plop down on the Captains chair (I think? the angle is tricky) when they first get back to the bridge. For whatever reason I found that funny.
Same! I had never noticed that before. It's actually some pretty clever foreshadowing, if they planned it that way, that she'll be the one to challenge Picard on his command decisions because she doesn't have the same level of familiarity and respect for him as everyone else on the ship. No one else would dare to lounge in the Captain's chair, but she just doesn't know any better.
I'll be a dissenter here... I HATE THIS MOVIE. Three reasons. 1) It's too predictable. Lt. Hawk is the most obvious redshirt in Trek history, and the most obvious cannon fodder on the bridge since Commander MacDuff. 2) Riker and Geordi basically holding Cochrane's hand through the flight of the Phoenix completely neuters his place in Trek history. It would be like Neil Armstrong walking the Wright Brothers through the first flight at Kitty Hawk. 3) Worst of all... it completely throws out everything we've ever known about the Borg. They're docile like honeybees until provoked. Here, they're treated like zombies in space, the ability to suddenly assimilate through just a touch? Where did that come from? Why didn't they do that to Picard when they first abducted him? These aren't vampires. The writers disregarded their own rules when it comes to the Borg and it ruins the entire film for me.
1. who cares, plus he died rather late in the movie for being so obvious 2. they don't they are just his co-pilots, he still calls the shots, it is his flight. 3. They don't they inject nanoprobes through the tubula. it is established in this movie, because fans wondered about how assimilation actually works, and they don't do it to picard because "i had to give myself freely to the borg" it's literally said out loud.
Lily is obvious Audience perspective character.. not the Star Trek Fan insert, she's the insert for the person who's chose or been dragged to see the 8th Star Trek movie without having seen any other Star Trek media. And therefore to give her character some kind of meaning outside of this, we have to give her to scene with Picard. Otherwise she would literally be the Rich Unfrozen Guy from 'The Neutral Zone' if he never interrupted on the bridge. without that scene she's just the person to ask "What's this star trek stuff all about?" then disappear.
First Contact theme is the most "beautiful" sounding Star Trek theme in my opinion
I want the opening theme played at my funeral - gorgeous piece of music. I was never a fan of Lily. I am one of the many that think it should have been Beverly to be to one to stand up to baldy. She has the acting chops to do it too.
This was the first bit of Star Trek I ever watched, aside from Star Trek 2009, because I was looking up time travel movies and the idea of this sounded cool
I have never been more excited to rewatch my all time favorite movie!
You gotta admit, it was kind weird how EVERYTHING star trek in this short span of time was time travel, from tribbles to 1996 to First Contact...
Jesus Christ... I have never heard anyone hate on Lily before. Maybe you'll have a different opinion on your second watch? Especially the parts you talked over and, you know, all the usual context you miss as a result. For example, you questioned how they were able to "set a course for the 24th century." THEY LITERALLY EXPLAINED IT! A few seconds before that line, Geordi says he reconfigured the warp field to match the chronometric readings of the Borg Sphere, and then Picard tells him to recreate the vortex that brought them there. Anyway, I'm shocked you guys aren't coming out of this movie praising the hell out of it, but whatever. You liked it, and that's a win! I'LL TAKE IT!
They didn't miss the explanation for returning home, they just found it incredibly convenient that they can just do it so easily, that time travel is now as easy as just going to the store for some milk.
I'm pretty ambivalent about this movie. If I look at it just as a movie in its own right, I think it's a pretty darn good sci-fi action movie. I don't really mind the bifurcation of the story line and the tonal difference between the two, though I do agree that it could have used another twenty minutes or so of run time. But there are a lot of little things that just don't quite work for me in the broader context of Star Trek. Picard has dealt with the Borg twice since "The Best of Both Worlds" - in "I, Borg" and "Descent" - and there was no hint of this thirst for revenge there. The Borg queen is a perfect addition for this movie, but seems to fundamentally change the nature of the Borg and take away what I found to be one of their most interesting features - that they were a pure collective without any kind of centralized command or hierarchy. The implication that the Vulcans already had warp undercuts the notion of Zefram Cochrane as THE inventor of warp drive. I kind of feel like it's maybe a great movie, but only a good Star Trek movie.
I wouldn't say there was no hint of a thirst for revenge. Picard in I, Borg clearly still had some very strong lingering feelings about the borg("It's not a person, dammit, it's a borg!!"), and that was over a single, disconnected drone, not with the fate of his shit and all of federation history under threat. As for the vulcans having warp first, that's really not surprising. Romulans left Vulcan about 2000 years ago, and almost certainly had at least basic warp capability to make the jurney. The dominion was also founded around the same time. The klingons got warp tech from the hur'q, and that was 1600 years ago IIRC. Point is, Cochrane was the first HUMAN to invent warp, just as Mirasta Yale was the first Malcorian to invent warp.
Thomas Riker actually calls the Defiant a “Tough Little Ship” in the DS9 episode “Defiant.” Ron Moore wrote both so…
Another little Easter egg that pops up if you pause the film at the right moment are the buttons on the Phoenix labeled “TOS”.
oooh nice! I never noticed that! lol
I don't hate Lily, but am also not a huge fan. She's such a "writer invention" where they think they need an outside character, but she kind of feels at times like an unknown person barging onto the ship and being equal to the crew. When, again, can't you figure out how to make the main cast be the important characters? Unfortunately, I'm not sure any Trek movies ever feel like an ensemble in the way they are on a TV show. In the movie world they always want to know "Who are the two or three lead characters?"
I admit I also think it's awkward to shove Lily into the story instead of focusing on our established characters. Like the "Ahab" scene, would Beverly have really just shrugged it off and followed orders? But on the OTHER hand, would Picard have vented and yelled and gotten that angry at Beverly or Riker or any of them? I think it's the writers' idea of using an outsider to question things. But it does sometimes feel like the TOS movies where the villains or other new characters get more focus then Chekov, Sulu, etc. But in Beverly's case, she got the least to do in the TV show of all the main cast, so why would the movies focus on her MORE?
The distance they travelled on the Phoenix and still seeing Earth actually makes sense tbh. The Phoenix was a warp 1 capable ship, no more. That means 1x the speed of light. That sounds fast, but on space scales, it's actually painfully slow. At the speed of light our sun is about 8 minutes away. Phoenix was in warp for what? a couple of minutes, absoloute max, but probably more like a minute or less. That really doesn't get you far at the speed of light. Now..... warp factors are weird and inconsistent to a degree. In early TOS the warp factor had a linear relationship to speed, doubling warp factor multiplied your speed in c (1c being 1x speed of light, 2c being 2x speed of light etc) by 8, with warp 9 being 729x the speed of light. They later decided though that this was still too slow, and they wanted later ships to be faster than the original Enterprise, but they realised that just continually adding new warp factors would get silly. "Ensign, set a course for Earth, warp 17" sounds a little silly, keeping warp factors in single digits just sounded better. So they retconned the warp scale. Don't recall exactly where it happened, but certainly before the start of TNG they changed it. In the TOS scale, there was no end to the scale, you could in theory just keep adding warp factors to go faster and faster. In the new scale they set warp 1 at the speed of light, warp 10 at infinite speed, and made an exponential scale in between. So warp 9 is now 1516x the speed of light (ish). So yeah, warp 1 is stupid slow, but on either warp scale you pick up speed rapidly as you climb the warp numbers. Most of the time in Trek they aren't travelling at warp 1, they're higher in the warp scale. I seem to recall in TNG warp 5 is pretty common for just cruising around, that's about 213x the speed of light, so if they warped at that sort of speed for the same lenght of time as Phoenix did, yeah, you're right, you wouldn't see Earth, you'd be WELL past the sun and off into the middle distance.
You guys completely missed the Defiant being in this movie. It was designed to fight the BORG and movie starts with the DEFIANT fighting the BORG. But you guys noticed the Meckleth more??? lol. What an excellent way to include DS9 and have Worf join the enterprise crew. This movie's space battle at the start is arguably one of the best star trek space battles ever. One thing i Noticed on 100th time I watched this movie and always wondered about... Why are there soo many KLINGON BORG??? feels like there is an untold story about an old Klingon ship getting assimilated. Cause they are Klingon but they have makeup/face from the TOS Movies. They are Klingons from the Undiscovered Country ... I figured they beamed over from the Sphere but how/when/where were they assimilated. This movie is the best but it does have some plot holes. Picard acts like the Borg are a scourge. that they've been in a prolonged war with the BORG and that the humans are constantly falling back and letting them win. That the line has to stop HERE WITH HIM. it sounded good but in reality, the Borg sent 2 SHIPS to attack the federation. They did'nt invade their space (more like trespass), they did'nt assimilate any federation planets, they killed allot of ships but the federation did'nt back down to them/fall back... it sounded really good, but its complete nonsense. Best part of the movie but complete nonsense. What picard should've said was running into the borg in my part of the galaxy is rare but when they come there is nothing but a trail of death behind them. Hundreds of ships, Thousands of fellow officers dead by my own hands. They took me and made me Locutus of Borg the face of death and assimilation. There isn't a day where i don't see horror in the eyes of the survivors of ships like the Boseman, Columbia, Exalibur, Endevour , and the Saratoga (sisko's ship). Not only officers but family that could not be evacuated in time. Mothers, Sons, Fathers ... all dead by my hand. Worst part is, I had a chance to end the borg. Infect them with a deadly virus and end their scourge but I did'nt and now death and destructions of more federation ships are on my hands. I will not lose any more ships or crew to the BORG... We will save this ship, We will get back to my time, and I will END THE BORG!!! (or i will continue my penance for all the innocent blood on my hand)
Like many reactors I've seen, the TA guys have "ship blindness." They don't recognize various classes, etc, like some of us nerdier viewers, and stuff like the technical details of the ships sound to them like "blah blah blah."
Sovereign Class Enterprise-E is a good looking ship. The bridge of the Ent-E leaves a lot to be desired though. The way the holographic view screen can be turned off an on makes no sense. Why would you ever turn it off and stare at a blank wall when you could see stars instead? I think it's also important we don't compare the D and the E too much. In-universe, the Enterprise-E like the D before it is Starfleet's flagship. It's the cutting edge of starship tech at the time. While the Galaxy Class Ent-D was a floating hotel that was created during a time of peace and was perfect for that era, the Enterprise-E is a flagship for a different time where the Borg and Dominion threat exists, and the alliance with the Klingons is shaky. It's less high-tech family cruise liner, and more sharp war lance. Personally, I like the attention to detail and the thought that went on behind the scenes as to what the next generation (no pun intended) of Starfleet ships would look like and what their roles would be at the time. We first saw this with the Defiant, and this is a continuation of that same ship design process. A lesser series with showrunners who didn't care would have ignored this completely.
I like that point about the peacetime vs wartime design
Also no love for the Enterprise-E? Yes the D is nostalgic but I love the new design & personally love the darker set designs etc, especially it suits the tone of the movie
I think the exterior of the E is gorgeous. The interior a bit less so, but it suits the films very well. That being said, the D remains my favorite Trek ship. There are so many aspects of classic Trek (like the care and detail that goes into the ships) I absolutely love that these guys are oblivious to or simply don't care about. They have very narrow and particular tastes. They are what they are at this point though, frustrating though that can be at times.
IMO You’ve reached peak TNG movie (And peak Star Trek movies for that matter) From what I remember there was some expanded stuff explored in the novelisation tho I haven’t read it in years - so maybe that would be interesting for you to check out
How does that undermine it? …and Americans? Umm ya no America was done by now
@1:56 honestly there has been really very little actual first contacts shown in Star Trek
They are so right thought about how Star Trek movies have to be a bit different than the tv shows, they are their to be a celebration of sorts of the underlying core of Star Trek ….which is something nu trek forgets unfortunately. I never did love how the ratty rough around the edges post apocalyptic war camp in Montana was the setting for either Cochrane inventing warp and launching phoenix or making first contact. Would have preferred something bit more realistic and formal situated around what’s left of NASA or European space agency or whatever. Basically earth should be further along in their recovery and progress from ww3 and the story of Cochrane would be better as part of a team of scientists or engineers using the best of different countries former enemies etc…..rather than some trashy biker mad max gang living in a camp in the bush in Montana and mostly just drinking and listening to a juke box🤷♂️
Surprised they didn’t like Lily and thought she wasn’t likeable. The criticism of her reaction in the ready room to Picards outburst seem to be about her only knowing him for 5 mins…but that makes no sense…most people would have strong reaction and facial expressions to someone loosing their shit just like Picard did, even if you just met him
Patrons waiting for the moment the guys see the Defiant roar onto screen, but they look at each other and talk over it so miss the whole shot. Don't ever change TA!
Yep I was thinking exactly this ! you guys literally missed the Defiant's Big Screen entrance, lol I guess it made Worf popping up from behind the console a nice reveal for you though! :)
Enterprise E haters unite!
Yes, the bridge of the E can't compete against the bridge of the D. But on the outside the E is clearly the prettier ship.
I think the D is the prettier ship, both exterior and interior. However, that doesn't take away from the E, which does have a gorgeous exterior too.
Oof. When you said Lili was written to be unlikable...oh man no. You were definitely supposed to like her. haha. One of my absolute favorite characters in the Star Trek franchise. A great foil for Picard here and a great outsider to give some audience exposition with. Alfre Woodard is one of my favorite actresses. She's so talented. A stand out in absolutely everything she's in. And I think she held her ground against Patrick Stewart's masterful performance in this film. In a way I definitely don't think Marina Sirtis could have done (no shade, I love Deanna). That Ready Room scene...it's just so powerful. I'm actually floored that you guys didn't like her. A little heart broken. I've never heard anyone say they don't like Lili.
I always assumed she was written to be unlikeable/reluctant figure in the story, shes always been the weakest part of the movie for me. Replacing her with Crusher for alot of scenes, or even bringing in a lone ensign new to the ship that Picard feels the need to protect while gradually losing it, could have been improvements for me.
I found a safe short missing scene. These exist but apparently are really scarce as this was was only used for an actors' personal creidit line. Its obvious who that actors is in this clip. But there were multiple deleted scenes that ahd loated around what, mostly short scenes to very short scenes, and one much bigger one that was deleted as a plot choice thing. Or i was going to do except that the site its on refers to deleted scenes from future movies as well. Anyway, they exist but njot easy to find there was some convoluted legal reason about exactly whose intellectual property they were and for some reasons Partamount really worked hard to scrub all the deledted scenes from all the movies, though they still exist or some of them do on very deep dives. But those dives are also where spoilers about the future movies deleted scenes, so this gets really really hard and may be impossible to post in an acceptable way here. This is very unsual in terms of how deleated scenes really work. Had to do with complex rules about who had what freedom and the exact production status and it was legally grey so they tried to just erase all of them from the interent, and this was a case where it actually sort of worked, especially because somany aer very very short scenes where you understand why they cut it to save time or were taking the story in a different direction before some rewrites/changes came in suggesting things that never happened in our version of the movie, and due to a complex legal situation with the rights from the tv shows and the movies being divided between two different companies and the rules about directorial freedom. And since they are things that didn't happen, I can't say whether any of those plot elements are ever reused, like... oh, they use this idea that wasnt incorporated into the fil, to inspire a later idea and this made whose legal proerty they were extremely legally complex as a result. Moslty what these would have done is have sort moments that arent necesary or they feel slow down the pace too much or don;t work with the version of the scene they decided to go with, which means Frakes had an unusual degree of freedom to change signfiicant amounts of the strip and was collaborating with the writers and producers.
So There is a deleated scene, and its sort of maybe a spoiler. How is that possible? It includes something where... hmm. Well it's not a scene you can show for your spolier rule but I also can't explain what I can't explain about it because of the same reason, so maybe watch that one after you're finished with the series, lol. If there are other deleted scenes they may suffer from the same problem, so you can't watch them. I'll see.
First Star Trek movie I ever saw, in the theaters with my dad. Will always be number 1
There is a cannon explanation to the dramatic appearance changes between the Galaxy Class Enterprise D and the Sovereign Class Enterprise E. The reason is ironically the Borg. After Wolf 359, Starfleet re-though the idea of, hey lets have a big exploration ship full of amenities and families, the galaxy is a peaceful place. what could go wrong Then the Borg come along and they think maybe we need some more warship type vessels. No families, designed for combat. The Enterprise E, the Defiant... some of the other ships shown in the opening battle are all products of we need to have advance combat ships, not family cruisers.
I loved the entire 10 seconds we got of the Akira Class <3
So glad you guys enjoyed the movie! I bought the reaction early to watch it again with you guys. On a more personal note, I wanted to let you guys know I had to break up with my first girlfriend of 3.5 years a few days ago. As you have other times in my life, this reaction provided me with a much needed escape from the stuff I'm currently feeling. Thank you guys for your love of Star Trek and helping foster a great community here on this little corner of internet. This might be my favorite Trek film, and I'm so pumped y'all enjoyed it! Looking forward to the in-depth discussion.
Oh, also I hate the look of the E. I think that's a bit of an unpopular opinion, so thought I would toss that in here. ;)
I'm not going to get all bent out of shape about something I like that you guys don't, but I find Lily well-written, extremely well-acted and not even remotely unlikeable. I think she's charming. I can still remember the audience laughter to "My first ray gun," "Sounds Swedish" and recoiling to Worf's "I am a Klingon." I do agree that you could have written something similar for the existing cast members, but thought what they did was very well-executed. (Similarly, I think the Borg Queen is a bad idea that they did very well.)
I've always thought the Borg Queen works fantastic in isolation within the confines of this film, but creates real problems in the lore outside of the film.
I agree that the actual first contact scene with Cochrane shaking hands and sharing drinks with the Vulcans does feel special. It's a moment that had been referenced a lot up to that point so to actually see it was great. In my opinion, the Moby Dick reference in this one is actually better executed. Picard having that line enter his mind and speaking out loud as he calms down and accepts the decision was really great.
Special is also that the Vulcan seems to ignore how strong the drinks are.
Fun Fact: When Sweden joined NATO, during their ascension ceremony in 2024 the band at one point played the First Contact theme as a nod to the similarities between NATO and the United Federation of Planets.
damn thats cool
Love the EMH scene, the Barclay scene, and I think it's great they don't accidentally spoil that the first contact will be with Vulcans right up until the end! Great reaction!
Because this is a fiction universe and multiple ones, the timeline changes constantly so what happened once or is said to have happened doesn’t really matter
Hence the problem with multi verse crap. So sick of that trope of alternative parallel timelines and universes and dimensions that are all just different versions of the main one. It utterly dismantles any jeopardy or investment
Every time you say 3 is your favorite I die a little inside.
They thought it was... solid! That's a win right there. But yes Lily should have been replaced with Crusher.
the borg queen was needed for movie but i feel her existence weakness borg as cosmic horror,
She was absolutely not "needed". The studio wanted a villain with a face. They could have been more esoteric and I don't think anyone would have minded. Nowadays the weirder it is, the more celebrated.
Seeing this in theater was actually my very first full exposure to Star Trek and it is what truly hooked me onto the franchise. It's not my favorite of the films, surprisingly, but I do think it is the best produced of the films and it was what hooked me.
P-Stew loved working with Alfre Woodard he wanted to find a way to bring her back in the next movie!?
Lily is very well written and one of my favourite guest characters in the whole franchise.. She's a great actor as well, and it shows in this movie.
While I may not love the character, I gotta say the actress was phenomenal.
$10 instead of $5? Savage
Supply and demand!
You can hear Kelsey Grammer's vioce in the battle sequence, acknowledging the order that was given. I don't think it's credited but it's there
That's def Sideshow Bob!!
The other part of the movie I liked is that Cochrane is into Steppenwolf and has some kind of futuristic Pono Player built into his spaceship
I heard one person suggest years ago that Lily's role should have been lessened and Sisko should have been on the Defiant with Worf. This way, Sisko was the one who gives Picard the kick in the pants during the Captain Ahab scene. Sisko is able to bury the hatchet with Picard at the end of the DS9 pilot, and Picard is able to do the same with the Borg.
Would have made more sense for the existing fanbase, if not the wider audience. Also, combined on the same mission, Sisko and Picard would have defeated the Borg in half the time lol Imagine Sisko in the Worf role, and he's physically slamming Borg with the rifle in the hallway while Picard is trying to override the door. In Avery Brook's voice: "Picard....they've adapted..." BAM! LOL! That tickles the fanboy in me
It’s interesting that Josh notes that he’s fine with time travel here because it’s still “in the future.” One thing I’ve always felt about the film is that there’s a distinct lack of world-building for 2063. There’s not much in the film that feels like the future, IMO. I know it’s partially because it’s set only 10 years after WWIII, but, other than the warp ship and brief mentions of the political situation, this could very well just be set on a campground in 1996 and not much would change.
I agree it doesn’t really feel like the future but tbh it’s one set/location and it’s barely in the movie so it’s like… whatever lol
Glad you enjoyed it. Shows that you liked it that you thought it was only 90 minutes and wanted it longer. It's 1h45m that is excellently paced. Modern films are far too long and bloated with two third acts. Harsh criticism on Lilly who is generally great in the film and acts completely rationally throughout, not whiny, screamy or a know it all. I buy their bond despite not many scenes together. I think you'll change your minds on the character on further rewatches. We've all been watching the film for 30 years so these characters are etched in our brains.
Best Trek movie music…and that’s tough to do cuz 2 and 6 have great soundtracks.
The companion did make Cochran younger. I guess how I deal with how different he is, is that he was military forWW3, and the companion returnedhi. To that “age” and asa result he had more military behavior (self discipline). But when he invented warp drive he was older and broken from war. He went off to die of old age in space when the companion found him. Rewatching this with you now I can see he could be the same Cochran.
So They wanted Geordi in the visor but he absolutely refused to do it unless they got rid of it
Wait that’s actually hilarious
Note, noneof thuis spoilers I'm just reminding them of already established context thst they might not have thought it in terms of the logical conclusions we can draw with whats been said in the past and whats been shown but you really have to pay attention to implications of individual lines becasue those are used for the basis of future development which gives deeper context to some of the choices made in terms of ship design.
Guinan was the bartender on the D. Why would she follo them onto the E? It makes just as much sense that when the ship was gone, she moved on to another thing, as her species is long lived and she has had many experiences so she doesnt seem like the type who would do the same thing the rest of her life, she would want different experiences. I don't think it would be true to her character if she was on the E, and we didn't actually see any civilains on the E, which suggests maybe this ship did away with the civilians on the ship policy, or for this ship in particular because as the flagship it encounterd too much danger for the types of missions it would be assigned, especially given the looming threats in the Universe right now. If the Dominion invaded, or the Klingons, the Enterrprise would leading fleets into battle, and having civilians there doesn't make sense. This ship is part of the new anti-borg line the defiant was from that werent ready when the first invasion happened. Also, the Federation was being run deliberately poorl;y because of the gillworms so there were a lot of nonsensicla decisions, and you coulg argue the development of the Enterprise was one as it took so much time, was so lengthy to produce, and had so many bugs and things that needed to be replaced throughoput TNG. This ship is different. It's the flasgship, but this ship was also built with combat against the Borg specifically in mind, as were the ships in the fleet mostly that intercepted the Borg Cube in the beginning.
Yeah, the Enterprise is supposed to be part of the Borg Task Force (its what the Sovereign was built for). Makes sense that its a stripped down non-luxury war ship (like the Defiant, though more comfortable). It would be hard to convince civilians to live on it to begin with!
I feel like a very much agree with Josh here. My feelings exactly. Its good, but not quite great. The writers explained this was a good popcorn flick, but with the generations they were trying something they didnt quite execute, here there is no deeper meaning to anything going on other then its psychological effect on picard and the confidence crisis of Cochrane. Its fun, its an adventure, it has great emotional moments. But there isn't some deeper them at play that elevates Trek. I find that consistently in DS9, but I think you can imagine how if someone really liked what DS9 was doing, DS9 is... ambitious. This is a very well made movie, but it doesn't feel ambitious in the way that elevates it from being as you very well put it "Star Trek but its a movie" where the "feeling like a movie" part is jarring because so much of the movies were about it being distinctly not the show but a movie and in a way that can be limiting. There can be callbacks and easter eggs but an audience unfamilia with trek or vageuly familair can understand this without needing to have any previous knowledge. I mean having experienced the history makes it hit harder but it isnt strictly necessary as all the history is explained and even "retconned" to some degree.
I think it's great as an action movie. Depends on the flavor you're looking for. Though there is certainly a theme, of Picard's trauma and overcoming his emotional reactions to it.
I'm another who watched this in the theatre 30 years ago. So it's a real treat to hear a first-time reaction. I'm glad you enjoyed it boys and I look forward with interest to those extended thoughts. LLAP. 🖖
Given the situation Riker and the Earth crew are in, what else can he do? he has to make sure the mission goes as planned and hope his crew dealt with the other problem. He didn't even know the Borg were alive or on the Enterprise, so even unable to establish contact, his priorities are clear. There is no way they can establish contact anyway, the problem is on the Enterprise and I don't think an additional scene of them trying to contact the Enterpirse and failing would have added anything. In fact you could just assume in your headcannon that happened, they didnt make contact, and thus there wasn't anything interesting worth showing. It changes nothing and wouldnt have added anything other then to complete the complaints of nitpickers. Notoriusly you dont care if they cut a scnee to close a minor technical loophole (here that they would try and alternate means to get in contact even though such an attempt would fail) the only benefit of showing it would be to appeasw nitpickers. This is like when someone complained about the DS9 season finale that surely there have to be verfication codes and bio checks and physical coded software, they don't just accept this person is who he claims it is. But showing tha would have added nothing, so you can just assume the foounder had all that stuff. More so, pointing out they were making sure rhe admiral was who he said he was would ruin the twist, because already we would have been on alert for shenainigans if they showed him passing all thoses tests because we nwever see admirals go through those though there clearly would be some kind of security checking mechanism everytime an admiral came aboard. Again, its logical this would happen, but they dont ever show it, so why show it just in this case to appease the concerns of nitpickers? To me if there is an obvious or implied thing that would make it make more sense you can assume its there and not shown because its not interesting. Thats why I don't see that Riker and them are doing anything besides what they should be doing. Even if Riker had known there were borg on the ship, there was nothing he could do about it if they assimilated it and the mission would have failed beyond anything he could have done. So he is dealing with one part of the mission and his team mates are counting on him like he is counting them and he undersytands if either one fails their mission they both fail. Also I'm sure its been pointed out to you, but the TOS Cochrane thing takes place chronologically after this movie in the lifespan of Cochrane. He disappeared because on some test ship he was a passenger on some entity abducted him and made him eternally young and healthy. So The Cochrane on that flight would have been an old man who was turned back to his Healthiest age forever, even though that age was before in his reak kife Cochrane had done anything of significance besides maybe being some sort of pilot in air/ close space craft that could have been deployed by nations fighting. His veteran experience there lead to him having and idea about how to design a warp engine based on his knwoeldge of what was already cutting edge and finidng a missile silo in a part of the country the government had abandoned due to war, and he was able to modify the ship (probably one of the types he had piloted before) to be able to traveling at light speed for a little bit. AS far as still being able to see plent earth, they were traveling at the speed of light for a few minutes, and light takes more then that to reach the outer reacher of our own solar system, so there view of earth based on where they were, before or after mars, the view of Earth is realistic from a space vantage point. They only had to travel at light speed for a few minutes for the vulan to notice them, this doesnt seem like a craft that could sustain it for long or that would be flyable outside the solar system (the radiation alone would kill them pretty quick, but there's also the incredible cold that they dont seem to have heating ssytems to counter combined with a bunch of other issues when you get outside the solar system. We dont know then after contact with the Vulcans how much of thir tech they shared, but presumably a lot to give Earth a huge boost.
*Riker and Geordie return to Earth to witness First Contact* Geordie: "So how's the Enterprise holding up? I guess you had some communications issues, because we couldn't get in touch all day!" Picard: "Oh, its fine. Don't worry. But Engineering could do with a bit of tidying up."
So a rumor I heard that I believe based on the evidence does kind of confirm how limited Troi was. The story goes that apparently Sirtis did some "method acting" here and actually got drunk to play drunk Deanna. The thing is, she had so few scenes, she was only onset for a couple of days. But if you rewatch the scene where she's on the bridge briefly, apparently that was filmed later the same day and Sirtis is still clearly intoxicated. Rewating that scene with that in mind... yeah, it's kind of obvious when you're looking for it. Not her peformance really, its a bit slowed down, but more so here eyes are clearlystill glassy and no fully open. Random trivia, sort of like the Star Wars bit about Leia wasn't sober for a lot her her scenes in Return of the Jedi
I feel like it HAS to be someone who doesn't know Picard. Picard has earned the respect of his crew. He hasn't with this woman sho shes the one to call out the obvious behavior with this man she just met. The fact she hadnt even read Moby Dick was perfect. It wouldt have been the same movie if it was a crewmemeber. Worf already call himed out and he didnt back down, so they follow orders.
There's this hilarious bit from an interview I saw once, where someone is Interviewing Avery Brooks and asking him what he thought of First Contact and he's all annoyed that as far as he knew he'd left the defiant parked right outside the station, and then the next thing you know Worf's gone and taken the ship and trashed it without even asking him.
Now that they've finally appeared; I gotta say these grey uniforms are my favourite of all the trek uniforms. On the other hand, I hate the Enterprise E's bridge set.
Same, I like how the jacket is neutral but the coloured shirts pop in contrast.
I'm so glad you enjoyed it! I think the humour in this film is definitely better written than Generations, Drunk Deanna is my favourite.
I remember when watching it in the theater when Deanna says it’s no time to worry about time the whole theater was belly laughing
This movie really does a lot for Star Trek lore. Borg Queen. Zephram Cochrane. First Contact including the reveal of who we had first contact with. When this came out, I didn't have Internet yet but a friend did and he found rumors about what was going to be in this movie. Most of it was wrong but the one they got right was who First Contact was with. I remember the prediction of a Commodore Picard. I wonder with him taking command of the fleet to fight the Borg if there wasn't some earlier draft where he was meant to be there the whole time with a formal promotion to Commodore. EDIT: https://www.oocities.org/hollywood/7374/st-tng-destinies.html I think this is what my friend showed me. It looks a lot like what I remember. I especially like the rumor that Christopher Walken was going to be the main villain. As far as I can determine, that was never on the table.
As someone who is still new in Cybersecurity, I haven't yet seen someone trying to hack a computer by making it able to enjoy sex.
Something to bring up in the next staff meeting
Justice for Lily! I thought she was great in the movie. She was just bombed and attacked and woke up in a strange place thinking she was fighting for her life. It’s called survival instincts! It didn’t take long to convince her of what was happening and then she was completely game to help the future space people with whatever they needed. No shade, but I wonder if Josh can explain why she is so unlikable? In a meta sense she serves as an audience surrogate so Picard can bounce off exposition to someone because the movie has to work for people who have never seen Star Trek- I know it was helpful to 12 year old me who saw this in the theaters as the first piece of Star Trek media I had ever seen and I was hooked ever since!
Their criticisms of Lily are ridiculous. This is a woman who grew up DURING WORLD WAR III! She wakes up on a futuristic ship with no idea what's going on, with a war-hardened background. She behaves in a completely rational way. Naturally, Picard engenders a lot of trust and whittles away at her fear and aggression. From that point on, she's mostly pleasant and a great audience surrogate. I also think an outsider works better for calling Picard on his hubris and vengeance. While I can agree it would have been nice to have seen more of the cast given something meaty to do, this is a feature film that needs to appeal to a broader audience than only TNG fans, while still be engaging and fulfilling to what TNG fans want from a movie. Otherwise, frankly, the entire franchise could have been hurt. Even the shows could have been impacted and cancelled prematurely if this film had been a huge box office flop. "First Contact" was a huge hit at the general box office, and it fueled the beginning of what is perhaps Trek's golden age as a franchise (DS9 S6; VOY S4).
You had to drop this while I was at work, didn't you?! Such a great way to relax after dealing with the general public.
Me: Audible sigh. Of course yall didn't like Lily with Picard in the most important scene of the movie lol.
The problem with ever showing ‘how it happened’ is there are a million stories you could tell and someone will hate multiple aspects of the story chosen, that is why anything prequel ish can be annoying, disappointing, or infuriating
This is why I have so much respect for Star Trek 6. Its the only part of Classic Trek that is explicitly a prequel and they pulled it off without any cringe “how Han Solo got his name” fan service.
My order for the movies you have seen 1 Voyage Home, 2 Search for Spock, tied are 1, 2, and 6, then Generations and First Contact and then 5. next time the order will change
RN I think I’m at 4,2,3,6,1 5,8 7
We're finally here. Also, you posted this eight hours ago? While I was sleeping? Outrageous. Who do I have to contract about this whole "international time zone" nonsense?
Great reaction as always, glad you enjoyed it, loved the reactions to seeing The Doctor and Reg. As for the fact that Lilly was the one to confront Picard , I think it had to be her. A member of the crew even Beverley who is closer to him than anyone, or Deana wouldn't be able to speak to him in the way Lilly did. Yes they could have argued with him but in the end he is still their Captain and ultimately it would have just ended badly with them relieved of duty maybe, or at best ignored.
Thank you.
Tenth rewatch, Deanna has the best lines in this movie
You're blended alright.
I know I'm very much in the minority with this one because I do not like the Borg. I remember being so excited to see this in the theater and just completely tuned out about 20 minutes in because of how much of the storyline involved the Borg. For me there's nothing in this movie that raises it out of the E-tier.
I wouldn’t go that far, but for me this movie is all the confirmation they’ve squeezed all the juice out of that berry. The Borg’s story was over in Decent. And Decent sucked noodles. The Borg cease being scary when they are easier to defeat with each encounter.
STAR TREK FIRST CONTACT SEX SCOREBOARD We at the Sex Scoreboard have a correction. A BIG ONE. Riker 15 Troi 7 Picard 4 Dr. Bev 4 Worf 3 Data 2 -1 / +1 NEW Geordi 2 GUEST: Zefram Cochrane 1 DETAILS: First the bad news. For YEARS we have given Data a score for Jenna. It looked like they did it. By the very loose rules of the Sex Scoreboard, we assumed they did it. WE WERE WRONG. Data tells the Borg Queen that the last time he had sex was with Tasha Yar. So after an emergency meeting of the Sex Scoreboard Committee: Jenna -1. We apologize to Jenna for falsely accusing her of getting Data processed. BUT fortunately Data fixes the problem by banging the Borg Queen. Ummm yeah? Borg Queen +1 NEW. So Data loses a woman, gains a Borg Queen, and somehow his score stays exactly the same. Apparently even in the 24th century you can upgrade without changing your Data plan. Now Troi. Troi gets absolutely hammered. Given the incredibly low standards of evidence used by the Sex Scoreboard, we naturally assumed somebody was getting a +1. Riker was there. Cochrane was there. RIZZ was there….. NOPE. Somehow drunk Troi bangs NOBODY. Good thing I was not there (I was in my 20’s). Drunk Troi +0. She lost her sobriety. She lost her ability to sense emotions. She nearly lost consciousness. But she did not lose her pants. (We are pretty damn sure Lwaxana did somewhere in the Galaxy.) The Sex Scoreboard is disappointed in everyone involved.
Poor Geordi, he never catches a break.
I’ve been coaching hockey for 17 straight hours. I’m now lighting a cigar at midnight to do this… oh please. I’m so pumped. Let’s go
The first contact between humans and Vulcans in this film just hits in all the right spots. For those of us who read the books prior to TNG's appearance, it was established that Vulcans and Humans were the main architects of the Federation. Their partnership though contentious at first works very well. This was the perfect way to begin that relationship. The music here is one of the best Jerry Goldsmith produced for this franchise. I tend to disgree with Lily being unlikelable because none of the others would have spoken to Picard that way. The only reason I think Worf did was because he became used to Sisko 's style of command. Beverley wouldn't have done it in a million years.
I feel Riker would have spoken to Picard that way but in terms of the story, being that he had to be elsewhere, it would not have worked.
Hating Lily is the most surprising aspect of the reaction imo. I never thought much of her either way, her purpose is to act as a mirror for Picard to find his way back to his humanity. She serves that function very well.
Hating is a bit strong
This is my favorite TNG movie and maybe my top 3 Trek movies. The Vulcans as our first contact, the Borg have never been scarier, Picard having some emotional catharsis about lingering issues about the Borg, and Picard and Data's friendship. James Cromwell was great as Cochrane; people have wonder why he looks so old but he's supposed to be 33 in-universe, and lots of people have speculated the hard post-war life and maybe even some radiation issues wore on him. I disagree with the take about Lily. She came onto the ship terrified and confused, and has an outsider perspective, and I think she was the only one who could have pushed back at Picard as much as was needed to get him to relent and activate the self-destruct, he can't merely pull rank on her. If I could have changed one thing it would be the Vulcan reveal: we see when they come out of the ship very early on it's Vulcans, and that sort of deflates the emotional climax of the music when the lead Vulcan pulls his hood back. If their faces had been kept obscured until that unhooding, it would have been perfect to me: music swells, and OMG it's a Vulcan! I also love the 1701-D more too. The E is a fancy ship, technologically superior in-universe, but it doesn't have the homey feeling the D does.
Agree about the way they did the Vulcan reveal
The TV sets were awesome! It’s Producer/Suit brain at its worst demanding the D be blowed up! I guarantee you they obscured the Defiant interior because they thought it would look too cheap in HD on the big screen. We saw the D in 4K, it looked great!
One thing I never quite got in the Lily-Picard conference room scene is why Picard goes from raving maniac to perfectly calm and reasonable in the space of time it takes Lily to say “You broke your little ships.” It seems unmotivated and I always wonder if they cut something out of that scene that would explain it.
Picard has a very high level of metacognition. He instantly reflected on his outburst, how incoherent and emotional it was, and self-regulated (to an extent).
Yes, your shirt was a spoiler Alex. 😊
No. Thomas Riker said it first in „Defiant“.
I know this movie got roasted pretty good in the Patron Takes, but at least it's better than Warlord
My absolute favorite part was Alex roasting Patrick Stewart for demanding to be an action hero
When the TNG team were first coming up with the idea for the Borg, they were originally going to be an insect race. They realised that they didn't have the budget to pull that off, so they made them cyborgs instead.
I can't believe they hated the entire thing. But in all seriousness great reaction the only thing I found odd was Josh thinking Lilly was written to be unlikable.
I didn’t mean she was written to be unlikable, but that the writing made her unlikable (to me)
I think Crusher could have replaced Lily in the Moby Dick scene. Bones, as the chief medical officer AND as Kirk's friend, was always the one to go to him in private and be like "what the hell you doing, man?" Crusher would have been the one to listen to him cop an attitude with Worf, not say anything, and then follow him into the conference room. That could have been Crusher's greatest scene in Trek. She was there with him during Locutus, and it would have fit her relationship with Jean-Luc.
Cochrane went Warp 1 (1 x the speed of light). Light takes at least (I think) four minutes to get from the Sun to Earth. They went to Warp 1 for, what, one minute? So he should be somewhere a little further than the Moon imo
To appreciate how fast that is, my astronomy professor has a great example. If you were granted light speed for just one second and started in New Jersey and ran to Los Angeles. (running at light speed for a single second only)....you would make the ROUND TRIP back and forth 38 times!!! Thinking along those lines really makes you appreciate how fast that is. My professor is all about using examples like that. Yes, it's often taught that its 670.6 million miles per hour, or 186,000 miles per second, but that doesn't let us really understand how fast that is.
It had just enough Troi for me. Could have used more Crusher. Would have liked some Chief. And something I've always wondered: Is "Ruby" in the Holodeck, the blonde, the same actress/character that played Picard's secretary in those detective stories on TNG? "Glor-ee-ah...from Cleev-land" that woman.
She is not, but they do look very similar
Warp 1 is the speed of light. It takes light from the sun 8 minutes to reach Earth, so after the short amount time the Phoenix travelled at warp 1 they would still be pretty close. It would take 11 hours just to cross the solar system at warp 1. The warp scale increases exponentially, so warp 2 is 10x lightspeed, warp 3 is 39x lightspeed, warp 4 is 102x lightspeed, etc.
Can anyone explain the math of how it goes from 10 to 39 to 102?
Two favorite moments: 1. FINALLY, someone properly reacting to the EMH reveal because they didn't jump to these movies before starting Voyager. ;) So, so good to see. 2. The boys debating during the holodeck scene which episode The Big Goodbye was in, and Picard seemingly scolding them directly: "No, no, no, look at me!" :)
Oh god, I’m cringing imagining a reactor watching this and having no idea who the doctor is 😖
I'll be the first to admit I was mistaken. I enjoyed this movie way more than when I watched it the first time. Maybe mindset is everything. I was probably distracted on PS5 as well, as I have multiple pc screens lol. This time I gave it my undivided attention and you know what? It's solid! I DO have issues with it. Action is one of my least favorite genres (at least hand to hand or guns etc. I do like space battles!) and it's an issue I have with MOST Trek movies...the weird insistence that they are action movies first. Although the horror in this movie, and there WAS horror, brought things back to MY tastes. Also, Lilly was annoying. Not my favorite character at all. Finally, WAY WAY too little of the cast outside of Data and Picard. Like, they shoehorn Worf in and somehow get him over from DS9, which would be fine...but my god, could we use him a little more and make it worth it? That being said, I did have a good time rewatching this and liked it better than I remember. If you asked me earlier today, I would have given it a C. Right now, I'll gladly say it hit B+ for me. I also gotta say before I forget, while I hate the idea of the Borg having a face/The Queen....i did like her far more than I remembered. The Queen's design and even her motivations are pure Cenobite! You could put her in a Hellraiser movie and I would buy it and be sold. I actually wonder if Hellraiser was an inspiration for her! Gotta be! Here's the thing too. I'm not really a major fan of the Trek movies in general. I prefer the series and that format, be it an arc or episodic. But there's something about what they do with the movies that's less appealing to me....maybe it's the action stuff as I said. But that aside, judging this AS A MOVIE, yeah, ima say B+ ps: Yeah, you guys are right. It feels like scenes got cut. Not a major issue for me but when you mention it, I can't help but notice. Especially with Picard and Lily and ya early in the movie there was bizarre tonal shifts and also the first 15 minutes seemed to happen WAY too fast. So either cut scenes or a big pacing problem.
I agree on the preference for the tv shows. The movie thing just makes them want a big action spectacle that is not really core cerebral Star Trek anymore. If they insist on just doing movies I want it more like TMP or Arrival , more gravitas, less quippy marvel style
Yeah, Alfre Woodard's scene with Picard should have been between Crusher and Picard, or Deanna and Picard.
Its has to be Crusher if anyone. Only she could say “Jean-Luc, blow up the damn ship!” No one else is on a first name basis.
I love that Robert picardo got the part in first contact by “casually” mentioning that it didn’t make sense that Voyagers sickbay was more technologically advanced than the enterprise’s to Rick berman, Ron Moore and Jonathan Frakes … there’s a great video of him telling the story on yt but it has some directors spoilers in it for future voyager episodes
Fantastic reaction. Why is it fantastic? Because it's exactly how I feel! There's so much I love about this movie, but. But. I had a friend who got a B on a group project in college, and his professor's comment was, "This was too good not to have been better." Exactly.
Fuck yeah!
The irony of giving Lily flack for not knowing Moby Dick, meanwhile, when I read it last year, imagine my surprise to find out Picard mis-quoted it: "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." Guess he never read it either. 🤣🤣
You'd have to read it to get it wrong, you can't just make that line up. And considering people will misquote a video they'd literally just watched in the comments section, maybe it has been a while...
Alfre Woodard is actually Jonathan Frakes' godmother in real life.
Not really his godmother in the religious sense.. she just said that Jonathan could call her that as a joke and it stuck
I genuinely don’t think Lilly was written to be unlikable. You just don’t like her. (Which is fine, but I don’t believe it was the intention).
I don’t think it was the intention, only the result (for me)
Tom Riker was the first to call the Defiant a "Tough little ship."
Yep; not a spoiler but an easter egg.
"I have a couple of patients here who insist on coming to the bridge..." The Adam Scott cameo was cool, but since they were bringing Worf back to the TNG fold, it would have been the perfect opportunity to bring back the OG TNG to DS9 character, Chief! With Geordi on the planet, he could have handled some of the engineering things on the Enterprise, I'm sure he's such a genius that he'd know his way around a ship he's never been on before. At least I'd prefer that to the Sisko suggestions...
I have sometimes done a thought experiment imagining if Berman told Ron he could bring two DS9 characters with Worf on the Defiant for the movie, who would you bring? Dax and O’Brien would be fun, I think.
Weyoun and brunt lol
Hilarious how Alex called it in the Voyager 2 parter. A time travel first contact on earth situation.
"I'm okay with time travel here, because it's still travelling to our future." "Past Tense" enters the chat.
“Future”
For giving Deanna something to do, Cochrane goes from running away and being shot in the back to the next scene where he's "ready to make history haha" and I think in between there would have been a great scene for her to talk to him since she wasn't on the Enterprise to talk to Picard.
Josh: That's my motto- "Keep her unconscious" :P
If you were any other reaction patreon I would cancel you where you stand! (But in this case, I'll just gleefully watch along.) Glad you enjoyed it.
Good reaction, nothing unreasonable
I just watched it woots! I watched it with the subtitles on and heard in the battle at Earth the Defiant getting commands. Plus I wonder how long it takes for the Enterprise E to get from the Romulian neutral zone to Earth and how long did the defiant need to hold out? Also this does feel a little like a horror movie but that might be because I’ve been watching a ton of horror movies. did the time travel agents from DS9 tribble episode mentioned Enterprise E kind of? I liked Lily she’s an astronaut, but then got to go on the enterprise instead. Neat! My favorite Star Trek movie🩷
Great reaction, I'm glad you liked it about as well as I expected you to, I'm sorry for the beating you're gonna take for not universally loving it.
Par for the course, not our first rodeo, insert other saying etc.
Good thing we had the Bell Riots so that we could have World War 3.
The world is bigger than social issues in the USA, bro.
You know who else they could have written to be there to stand up to Picard in the conference room instead of Lily? Captain Sisko! I wish he was on the Defiant for this.
If two captains occupy the same space at the same time it causes a subspace explosion.
Man, I was up until 2:30 AM finishing the reaction after being up early, working all day, and gaming Friday night. Worth it. Great reaction, guys!
FigURed YoU guYS WoUlD haTE it. UnSUbScriBed. Anyway, great reaction/discussion. I’m always interested in modern reactions to this as my view is always colored by the fact that this movie was seen through my shell-shocked 8-year-old eyes. To me at the time it was so different visually that it was just like the pinnacle of film for a child. If interested in minutiae, you can find the first draft of the script online, which is COMPLETELY different, and finds Picard on Earth with the Phoenix, RIker on the Enterprise, and Zephram Cochrane comatose for the whole film. All changed when Patrick Stewart basically said “hey Ive been working on these biceps for a year and I wanna show them off”. Interesting stuff.
In my opinion, Lily HAD to be the one to call Picard out. It's not just that she's an outsider, but that she's literally a person from the era Picard is so proud of having "more evolved sensabilities" than, and she's the one, also literally calling bullshit with her colorful metaphors on his behaviours. She survived WW3 and even SHE thinks he's being ridiculous. She is the mirror to him - the one to contrast his typical moral, upstanding character who believes humanity has grown, with what his pain, fear and hate has lead him to act like. And Lily, she hears about this oh so wonderful future, humanity makes it, but then sees Picard be this ugly vengeful person and is like, "woah, is this the future?" Especially considering all the horrors and shit she must've seen, again, surviving an actual nuclear apocalypse. So in that way, Picard and her share a bond, both having witnessed and survived awful things, and what Picard will miss is likely the bluntness of her personality compared to the more reserved, respectful, less raw dynamic of the future that kept him honest. Yeah, it sucks the other members of the crew don't have more scenes in favour of that, but storywise I got why it's Lily. The TNG movies are kinda the inverse of the TOS ones. In TOS, the rest of the characters got moments and stuff, but it feels like the movies went out of their way to highlight them, whereas TNG was a great ensemble show and the movies can't quite figure out how to fit them in.
To be fair to Picard, being assimilated into a hive mind that uses your knowledge to kill thousands of your fellow officers and your memories where you realized you might be responsible for the end of the federation would be a pretty traumatic experience. Different from what Lily experienced, but its not like hes complaining his spiced latte was too hot.
A hell of a ride and a fun reaction!! Made my night.
@42:05 They said the thing! 😂
Do you think those guys from Temporal Investigations visited the Enterprise after they got back?
Probably not because from their perspective maybe all this was SUPPOSED to happen. We don't know. :) Wibbly Wobbily Timey Wimey stuff to quote The 10th Doctor.
I love this movie so much. Meeting the Vulcans is literally the birth of Star Trek. Tom Hanks (a Trek fan) was the first thought to play Zefram Cochrane. Some idiot straight out said Frakes directed First Contact in one of Josh's lives. I was hoping he didn't catch it. I was surprised about your reaction to Lily. I always thought she was a lovely character. Alfre Woodard is also Jonathan Frakes godmother. The original script had Picard on Earth and Riker on the Enterprise. Patrick Stewart asked for it to be swapped so he could be an action hero. You guys make so many assumptions and rush to be negative. You were upset about Barclay before you even saw what was happening. You were picking apart the Borg being from the Delta Quadrant. The Delta Quadrant is a quarter of our galaxy. Voyager has seen very little of it so far. Ok, I am done being negative about you being negative. Great reaction. I enjoyed watching along with TA very much. LLAP.
My questions about the delta quadrant thing wasn’t negative at all I was genuinely curious lol
The crew is dressed up as 2060 humans thats why Barclay looks like that, lol you guys sometimes
I can't understand your disdain for the character of Lily. Alfre Woodard's character was totally necessary. An outsiders perspective was needed to convince Picard to blow up the ship. None of the other members of the crew dare to disobey Picard, Worf tried and look how he discarded him. So a third character not under the command of the Captain was totally necessary in order to confront him.
I said that.
I do agree an extra half hour for more character moments wouldn't have hurt
I think even 10-15 minutes more would have sufficed.
so glad to be here ❤️❤️ love all you guys
None of the Star Trek movies ever really felt like they were the same genre as the television show. I haven't watched this in 20 years but I remember being disappointed it was mostly an action movie even at the time.
This is the second Brannon Braga story where you guys guessed it would end in a time loop or an erasure.
LET’S GO. 🚀 (That’s the Phoenix launching.)
Yes, Cochrane said in Metamorphosis that he was an old man and the Companion rejuvenated him.
Ugh that still a continuity problem later on
LET’S FUCKING GO!
I knew you'd do this! And I hoped you'd do this because I've got the day off haha
Guys, this is really annoying. I have work to do. Now you got me distracted. Damn it. Oh well -- here I go. Jumping in with you.
I've been rewatching some of the 13 shows and they really are almost halfway through! Mad respect for the dedication.
Yes that is Adam Scott piloting the Defiant!!
Do you two need a moment alone?
I was so sure it would be up tonight, I planned my evening around it.
I’m really hyped to see what you think of the first action-blockbuster-style Star Trek film :)
Damn I gotta wait till later to watch this, I'm really excited to see what you think of the movie!
Oh damn. I thought this was tomorrow. I’ll still have to wait until then, but looking forward to it.
5th
OH HELL YEAH!!
i always think ur user icon is the skyline logo
My girlfriend used three different YouTube accounts to Like the trailer, and she doesn’t even know what Star Trek is
Cool, now have her do that for all our videos thanks.
First comment!
Some might say, the First Contact with this post...
At work! GAAAHHH. Ima punch out early fuck it