UNCUT - False Profits (VOY S3E5) | Star Trek Journey 426
Comments (109)
it gets better guys. i promise.
You are seeing VOY try to find itself again. After getting rid of Michael Pillar you'll see they got rid of all the other recurring threads up till that point so they now have to come up with a new "villain" and new recurring elements.
False Profits is a solid episode. It's so much fun in a trivial yet silly way.
This was so bad. The stuff on the ground was almost a high school play. That farce against such high stakes plot elements (a wormhole home), made it even worse.
Showing these two good idea, too bad they couldn’t write a good story around it
I could only make it 30 Min this ep was crap
Yeah not a great episode ferengi or otherwise
I am an odd fan who likes references to this being a joint universe so I like referring back to the Price and Picard
Whaaaa? Janeway screwing her crew out of going home? Golly! I hope it doesn't happen again. And again. And again....
I guess I'm in the minority (as I often am) but I like this one. It's not a favorite or anything, but I enjoy it and find it entertaining. As a general rule, I do not like the Ferengi episodes. They're too ridiculous and I feel like the writers use them as an excuse to be totally silly and I'm just not impressed. So I always roll my eyes when a Ferengi episode comes around. That being said, as far as Ferengi episodes go, I consider this to be one of the better ones. I think it's more fun than it is cringey and over the top. Yes, I like what DS9 does with our main Ferengi characters like Quark and Rom and Nog, but I don't like the stories they fabricate for those characters. Just doesn't work for me.
Yeah, can't even argue with you on this one. It really is ferengi slop. Worse than I remember, but probably not as offensive to me as to you guys. D tier. One thing I think that's really lazy in Trek is writing technologically primitive people as just being stupid. I was watching a video today talking about why human development was essentially at a standstill for most of the 300k years we've been around, and then really took off 10,000 years ago and exploded in the last few centuries. Humans 100k years ago possessed essentially the same base intelligence as we do today, they just didn't have the conditions to preserve skills and knowledge. The bow and arrow was invented and lost at various points because humans lived in small nomadic groups. If the person who knew how to make them died before training a successor, the knowledge was lost. With the end of the ice age and discovery of agriculture, permanent settlements could form. Workshops and tools too heavy to carry could be employed at last, and with settlements of thousands of people, multiple craftsmen ensured skills and knowledge didn't die out. Obviously writing was pivotal in preserving knowledge. Point is being at a lower tech level doesn't mean you're stupid in general, and often Trek writers seem to forget this. I remember Josh once saying that "the only thing that could hold Janeway back from being the best captain..." only to be cut off by Alex saying "is that she's a woman", and in laughing at that I forget what Josh was originally saying, but it's eps like this that hold Janeway back. Here's the issue. She HAD THEM, and she LET THEM GO!! I get her reasoning for saying the federation is somewhat responsible, and yes she shouldn't place the convenience of 140 people over saving a whole planet from exploitation, but letting them go was stupid. The planet was apparently doing fine before they showed up. When Aridor gave his whole speech about the despair and hopelessness that their "sages" disappearing would cause, Janeway should have delivered a super deadpan "how tragic......they'll get over it", followed by "Mr. Tuvok, confine them to quarters. If they resist, shoot them". DONE!! Beam their shuttle and other tech aboard, let the people on the planet figure out whatever explanation works for them, and don't let anything distract from getting through that wormhole. There are ways they could have made this work without making Janeway look like an idiot. Kim's plan could have just not worked, Aridor and Kol could have broken out of their quarters and damaged Voyager's systems in the process of escaping, and in the brief time it takes the crew to get propulsion back up, the ferengi get through the wormhole but it's too late for Voyager. As is it's just a bad look for her. If I could offer a small defense of this episode, it was produced at the tail end of S2. Basics II, Flashback, this ep and 1 more were always meant for S3 but produced at the end of S2. Possibly because the 4 eps from S1 that got pushed forward to S2 freed up production time and they figured it would be better to get a head start on S3. You can tell which eps were made after they came back from the summer break because Roxann Biggs-Dawson simply becomes Roxann Dawson in the title sequence, and because Michael Piller is dropped from the producer credits at the end of the episode, leaving just Taylor and Berman. This is only a defense because IIRC the whole staff was utterly exhausted at the end of S2, so I can see why the holdover eps feel so low effort. I do like The Chute the most so far, and the Doctor's story in The Swarm is quite good. That ep would be solid if not for producer brained demands to insert a forgettable alien foe into a much more interesting character story.
If I was a Paramount executive back then I would have immediately cancelled Voyager after watching this episode.
Don't give up yet! The best Voyager episodes have yet to come! That being said, well, welcome to Voyager.
I enjoy this episode
I always thought that acting wasn't that difficult. However, I never considered having to act when the script is bad. There are some bad movies and TV shows where an actor does his job, and I know I would never be able to do that.
So dumb...these two Ferengi had already shown they were willing to commit violence when they attacked Neelix. Also even though Ferengi fighting skills have been constantly down graded since their introduction in TNG its still cannon that they can be strong and scrappy. So...Janeway decides to have two of them, unsecured, get gingerly escorted through the ship by one B team security officer. Good job Kathy.
You also liked the Ferengi from TNG: Rascals. At least the main guy who took over the Enterprise. Also, some genuine funny moments in that one from a couple Ferengi. On another note, the snobby jabs at Christians are getting a bit tiresome on this channel. How about mixing it up a bit and making fun of Muslims and Jews for a change?
To be fair, those almost exclusively come from Alex, but I agree, it's getting old, and more often than not is quite ignorant of history.
Bronze age is the point where people used metal but it was Bronze. Hadn't yet figused out how to forge iron.
Based Target Audience lowkey hatemaxxing Voyager Ferengi-slop while being DS9 glazebros.
YOU JUST KEEP HITTIN 'EM OUTTA THE PARK, VOYAGER!!!
Yeah we weren't just trying to be DS9 fans hating on Voyager. There is some great Voyager, but too much is this. Mid. One dimensional characters. Underdeveloped lead cast. I love Janeway. But what is she doing? Beam those Ferengi up, throw them in the brig. Go through the damn wormhole. Yes they interfered in that society horribly . . you don't have to fix it. Just remove them. The first time. And Im sorry. I hate that too many of the writers of Voyager don't understand Star Trek lore. There is no Prime Directive issue here (and by the way sometimes Picard didn't understand it). Tuvok was an idiot. There was no Prime Directive issue. The Prime Directive has to do with not interfering in pre -warp societies THAT HAVE NOT BEEN INTERFERED WITH. Once a warp species-- THE FERENGI-- crash land and declare themselves God, the Prime Directive does not apply. This species has already been interfered with and it is their responsibility to minimize the damage. Remove the Ferengi. Go through the damn wormhole. For F-- sake Janeway. I love you but damn. And Tuvok? Demoted.
My biggest annoyance is these Feregni already showed they were willing to commit violence. Yet when Janeway finally gets them to the ship she has them get escorted through the ship to some quarter with one B team security guy to deal with two. Lol
It's not that bad; there are significantly worse episodes from earlier on. I'd give this one a C.
if every ferengi character is an atypical ferengi character then there are no typical ferengi characters.
Fair. It's kinda like being upset that 99% of Klingons are violent or 99.99% of Vulcans are logical.
Voyager since Season 1 ended ... i don't feel so good Mr. Stark.
3:50 american education moment
I am American and knew the Bronze age in grade school, while I have opinions on schools in this case its not the failure of schools
Damn, I actually didn't realize everyone hated this episode so much. I always thought it was pretty good
yeah, it's just a fun little Ferengi episode.
RIP Leslie Jordan. He made a good Ferengi. I do like seeing Ethan having more to do as well but this is not his first time playing a Ferengi either. I don't hate this episode. It was an idea they obviously had when they put Voyager in the Delta Quadrant. This was an episode intended for the second season that was held until the 3rd season.
I hate Ferengi episodes. Episode to episode Voyager is a very hit & miss show. When it's bad like this one...it's really bad!
Janeway should have Ducated the Ferengi's ship and headed for the wormhole.
Season 3 is frequently ranked as the 2nd worst seasons of Voyager (just above Season 2). That being said, there are some good episodes coming, but this one isn't one of them. The ONLY thing that makes me *think* I like it is it's tie to Next Generation. But then I watch it again and I remember... no, it isn't very good. 6 months from now, I will think I like it again.
Josh nailed it: "just a novelty." The entire episode is a goofy novelty. Aside from the connection to "The Price" (i.e. world building and continuity) and a few early mild laughs, an awful episode. Good news: as someone who isn't a big Voyager fan -- I think the show is the epitome of "mid" -- even I can safely say that the best of the show is still to come. I don't think it ever gets consistently good-to-great, but it definitely gets better than this! S3 is probably the show's low point.
As bit of a Voyager hater, I feel vindicated, but it doesn’t feel good. Voyager just misses the shots a lot on an open net.
Wow extra disappointed in this episode no one’s fault but my own. I remember it being like S tier for some reason. I was actually eagerly waiting for this one.
Cute episode, but it's one-joke that goes on for 45 minutes. C rating.
Josh and Alex = False Profits! LOL
Yeah... this episode hurts to watch. I had honestly forgotten how rough of patch the 2nd half of season 2 into season 3 was. Better times (IMO) are on the way though!
Second half of S2 was great. Way better than what we've seen of S3 thus far. First half of S2 was dog shit.
well, at least it doesn't take itself seriously
Having seen The Odyssey this summer, I'd say this planet didn't look even remotely Bronze Age. :)
Neither does The Odyssey but hey. The thing is. Homer was actually from the Iron age but the story he tells is set i the bronze age. However, it's well known the militaries reflect military things of Homer's time (as well as just him lacking some knowledge of the subject) so depicting them as actual Bronze age is not what Homer did. So the complaints about the costumes being historically inaccurate- yeah, they look like iron age Greeks which is what they were in the original even though the story takes place in the Bronze Age. Homer seems anicent to us, but his story was set in what for him and the greeks then were thought of as ancient times and the "heroic period" though the greeks as we think of them in their golden age didnt exist back then and it was actually a dark age for the greeks where major city states were competing with city states and the empires to the west to survive and it was a much less developed time then the ancient greece of philosphy and poetry and drama people think of today.
It’s Funny you guys said Kes as a Ferengi! I think Jennifer lien would kill it as a Ferengi in drag! Of course they wouldn’t respect a lady Ferengi..
Its not just the Ferengi from the price, its also the wormhole from the price which we already knew was junk. But once again, janeway will prioritize whatever doesnt get the crew home that particular episode, because she has to be written that way
Basically everything in the episode including the people were supposed to be part of the general silly "shenanigans" tone
Thats actually how they fought back then. Muskets werent all that accurate and not always lethal. The first line would shoot as the line behind them loaded and fired with the people who just fired running to the back. This was all a prelude as you advanced to the bayonet thrust which was the bloodiest part of the battle where very quickly one side would gain an advantage and the other side would fall back and retreat with back lines firing as they tried to get away from the charging bayonets. This was just what was considered most effective at the time. Notoriusly for example, it was how Washington fought the British (who were very good at this sort of thing) and lost over and over because it was the serious professional way to do war rather then the borderers hit and run style or the much more effective but hoplelessly vain Benedict Arnold who lead cavalry charges to encircle the enemy very effectively. So you may take an issue with it, but being in the front firing wasn't the most dangerous, and in the back you woould eventually get to the front. It was whoever happened to be in the first few rows when the armies got physically close. The muskets back then were basically spears that could shoot weak inaccurate bullets. Rifling (where the bullet is shaped like today and maintains a tight spiral) wasn't really emploed till the 19th century and even during the Civil war, it was a minority of Union troops later on who were issued weapons that could fire more then once without being reloaded. You may think its dumb but this is how wars were actually fought. of course there is a long tradition of a country preparing based on the last war and the people that inovate based on new technology and tactics have an initial edge (that was how the Axis conquered almost all of Europe in a few months for example as opposed to the long grind on the western front in world war 1.) Or how the Ukrainain use of drones has rehaped modern battlefieds such that Russia was forced to adapt besides using the same old conservative "bury them in bodies" strategy with its massive population (sixth in the world last I checked)
"Or how the Ukrainain use of drones has rehaped modern battlefieds such that Russia was forced to adapt besides using the same old conservative "bury them in bodies" strategy with its massive population (sixth in the world last I checked)" 9th now, and the Ukraine war has either killed or forced so many of the Russian youth to flee the country that the demographic ripples from WW2 will only be worsened. Russia is going to become one of the most geriatric societies in the coming decades and suffer a population implosion.
yeah, you guys found it cringe but it ws supposed to be part of the joke that they were very impressionable and had been corrupted by the ferengi, like how dumb there prophetic song was (it ain't Homer) and how easily they had succumb to Ferengi values. If we re going to get Nth version of identical humanoids seeded by the preservers, at least they were a little different.
See that doesn't bother me at all. i did find this episode funny and I do like when starfleet crews cant just rely on their technological superiority to solve problems (which is overdone on Voyager) In gene's original pitch which Moore agrees applies to Voyager, Kirk and Spock and folks almost always had to use their wits to solve problems. They were alwaays dealing with humanoids either less or more advanced then them (and the few times we see them deal with humanoids who are on a rougly equal level, the federation considers them a big deal threat, like the Romulans which was a great TOS episode)
To answer your question, apparently this was another Menansky script from season 2 then he finished up while vacationing in France. The network pushed to have the ferengi featured on Voyager because the ferengi hijinx episode were generally some of the most popular with non fans, and keep in mind this was the flagship show of a new network and they wanted to bring in new, non- trek fan new viewers
I thought this one actually decently amusing by Voyager standards
Tuvok, thats not the way the prime directive works. If a spacefaring society interferes with another it no longer applies. Iyts been established, like in the episode where the Romulans are aiding the Duras faction, if another planet or group is meddling internally its fair game.
One of the two actors from the price was recast. The other was a non-speaking extra so he was recast
Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh. Okay I hate Ferengi crap. I wanted to kill myself early on and then....................... it got worse. Neelix as a ferengi. OH FOR F SAKE!!! kill me now.
“Hope we’re getting a good one.” Sorry, boys…
I don't like this episode, but I will say I understand Janeway prioritizing the planet and its people because to me I think that's exactly what a Starfleet Captain like her (or Picard or Sisko) would do. They often put others ahead of themselves, and it's 'stupid' if you just want to do what's best for you, but I find it kind of endearing, honestly. It's part of what makes them special.
yeah, that's always been part of the starfleet ethos
Jeffrey Combs / Brunt is more than a generic Ferengi. The last time you saw him shows that.
Fans who prefer Deep Space Nine to Voyager, "IS THIS YOUR KING?!"
This was a first time watch (since I didn't see half of Voyager in the 90s) and... well - what the heck? How did the writers room came up with that? Maybe they wanted to advertise the syndicated DS9 show by showing one of their features on UPN network? However, regardless of the idea, the execution itself was bad, really bad. This would easily be the worst episode of the season if it would have been aired in season 1. Why didn't they skip the full planet/ferengie plot and just focus a whole episode on catching the wormehole while spending time with the emotional reaction of the crew of having a real chance to get home?
Eyepatch guy is the snooty hotel manager from Ghostbusters
Oh damn!
Luckily the alien poem rhymes in English!
Don’t mind that you have no idea what the Bronze Age is. The whole world understands by enjoying the fruits of US education every day.
They don't like goofy episodes unless it's a horror movie reference
Yep, horror schlock (e.g. "Threshold") always gets a pass from them. For me, both types are awful.
Even though the Delta Quadrant is a quarter of the galaxy, you just knew Voyager would run into those two Ferengi.
One more season 2 holdover to go…
So if we continue the TNG/DS9/VOY as TA's children metaphor, the eldest child is the successful one who moved to Hollywood, the middle child became a moody artist, and the youngest child has become an underachiever.
They have to shape up or they’re gonna get their phone taken away
I thought the Ferengi didn't let women wear clothing.
These guys are freaks
It's not a great episode, but I do like the call back to The Price and Ethan Philips makes a great Ferengi.
Same, that's what I take from this episode. They remembered!
The reason they're so lame is because they're TNG Ferengi.
Yup, a couple of TNG Ferengi acting exactly like TNG Ferengi and serving up a great big block of stinky cheese. For me, this was a fun watch.
They gotta at least get points for remembering these two Ferengi exist.
I remember that episode and those Ferengi almost entirely just because of how Riker delivered that one line to DaiMon Goss of "THEN SEND IN YOUR OWN PROBE, GOSS." Something about the sass/venom of that delivery has stuck with me.
It's fine if you don' t like Jeffery Comb's Brunt, but to say he's your typical Ferengi is objectively wrong, in his last appearance his wasn't profit motivated he was ideological in wanting Quark dead, he didn't give a crap about bribes or a buy off, he just wanted Quark dead or broke.
He is very much NOT the typical Ferengi, I agree. He allows his personal vendettas consume him. He thrives on revenge and hatred at the risk of his own wallet. I find a character like that very interesting.
It's not that there aren't any good episodes to come but it made me chuckle during the intro to hear you acknowledge what many fans of Star Trek have said about Voyager as a show. It's a bone of contention in our household. My wife is a big fan of Voyager, not so much with DS9 and I'm the other way round. At least we both love TNG and the original crew.
I picture there being massive arguements on old chattooms and those newsgroup dealies back then. What I HAVE heard is during this exact period in Trek history, there was a pretty heated debate back and forth. But you know what I heard? Go back earlier than that, and there were people who bashed TNG for being a nu-Trek (not that they used that phrase) for not being true to the original series. 🤷♂️
Honestly Neelix to me is more believable as a Ferengi. The other Talaxians we've met so far are not nearly as Ferengi as Neelix.
It's the eyes. To play a believable Ferengi it's all about the eyes. I was a Ferengi for halloween a few years ago, and I mean professional appliances I found online, and clothes I bought at a thrift store and I swear to you it did not look like a fan costume. It was show quality lol. And I am a control freak and kinda OCD and I made sure I spent hours on the makeup, made sure the color was perfect and even pale blue nail polish etc. I gotta dig thru my room and try to find some photos of myself at the party I went to, and if I can, I'll post it to General Chat.
There isn't anything on Memory Alpha about when they came up with this story, but the Ferengi from The Price were one of the first things fans started speculating about when VOY was announced, so they probably always had the idea in their back pocket. Memory Alpha: "This was the first episode that returning Star Trek staff writer Joe Menosky was involved in writing after a four-year stint of working and living in France, he having previously served as a staff writer on Star Trek: The Next Generation. In fact, this Star Trek episode was one of several that Menosky wrote while still in Europe, prior to him joining the writing staff of Voyager for its third season." Well, there's your problem. Menosky didn't even have the courtesy to write this script in ‘Murica!
As I had wrote, Memory Alpha says the networks pushed for a ferengi episode on Voyager because they were generally popular with non-fans and with Voyager being THE flagshow of the new UPN network they really wanted to bring in new fans so they used this story Menosky had written. Other articles on Memory Alpha explained Menonsky wrote scripts for the first and second season before his involvement trailed off in season 3 but they would use those scripts for later episodes. Could be a reason Season 3 went "downhill." the ratings were intially strong but started dropping in the second half of the second season so there was more network interference and reusing script idea that hadnt been picked up for the early season and the gradual "executivicazation" of the showrunners who had never been fans of TOS and wanted to keep the gravy train rolling so things they didnt care about like characterization or continuity came second to keeping the gravy train rolling and "playing ti safe." At this point, Braga had been around for so long, there isa sense he felt entitled to the perks of being a show manager and became more interested in the bottom line and thinking more like a tv executive then someone who was passionate about what they
Ah False Profits - another s2 hold over, always thought this was dumb and not in a good way.
Voyager is weird in that its first season is so much better then what comes after up to this point. I mean I don't hate this episode. Its bad, but at least I'm entertained with how silly it is.
I said from the beginning that for me personally Voyager was a show that got worse as I binged thru the seasons. I actually unironically loved how it started, and most of season 1 and then....yeah. And this may be a hot take but I just never got into the characters. I never really liked them aside from the Doctor, Janeway, and Tom Paris and Tom can be hit or miss with me.
At least with Justice I could think of Wesley dying
Apparently the Ferengi Alliance had a contract on appearances for all Star Trek shows in the 90's. What scum. I also feel like the cast had fun filming this clearly not good episode
Not saying its great but I am feeling the draw of watching the episode alone
I actually give this a B. NOT because I think it's good! But because it's so bad, it's entertaining. I didn't find it boring, I found this episode to be fun to make fun of. I wouldn't give it an A or S like Sub Rosa, or Masks or even Wishes Were Horses or Move Along Home, it's not that entertaining. However, it keeps me interested and what I call a "drinking episode." Its horrible TV. Don't get me wrong. But my love-hate relationship with Voyager gets mended briefly with episodes like this, where it's so entertainingly stupid (like so much of Voyager.) My issues with Voyager are the many BORING bad episodes (genuine D's and E's for me). This isn't one of them. Episodes like this remind me how fun it is to make fun of much of this show. As I always say, if my grading seems weird sometimes it's because all I care about is my personal enjoyment to something and that's how I grade. B (also, I wish I could tell you what they were thinking with this dumpster fire. My only conclusion is; they were not thinking at all. I find it impossible to believe they actually thought they were making a high quality, smart episode. NO way. But as I said, this was so rediculously stupid, how could I not love it for that? It's something to point at, laugh at, and mock for existing. If I rated media objectively, it's an obvious E, true, but that's not how I personally grade episodes or movies.)
"My issues with Voyager are the many BORING bad episodes (genuine D's and E's for me). This isn't one of them. Episodes like this remind me how fun it is to make fun of much of this show." Literally basically a "wink wink" trying to be cute moment
Re - Ethan Phillips as a Ferengi He has been one before. He was Dr. Ferek in TNG season 3's "Ménage à Troi", when Riker, Deanna and Lwaxana were kidnapped by a bunch of Ferengi And Josh... breathe! I think you went about 90 to 100 seconds without oxygen during the post-reaction. Your face went a crazy shade of purple there during your laughing fit 🤣
Man, those Ferengi control spheres on their ships are so cool. The way they just move their hands around that little dome to fly the ship? Great stuff. That's the only thing I liked about this episode, so it's the comment I'm posting. HOWEVER, even as a rabid DS9 fan, I will say there are better days ahead for Voyager. This just isn't one of them.
"The way they just move their hands around that little dome to fly the ship?" Vibe piloting
I saw the chuckle at "must be some sort of fetish" which *is* pretty funny phrasing. Here it just means an object that's believed to have magical/spiritual power
"Some sort of...."
Yeah that was as bad as I remembered it.
Starting it now, I’m almost feeling sorry for them after hearing the intro 😂 but hey, at least it makes Nog, Rom and Quark look soooo good. Don’t worry, there’s plenty of awesome still out there!
I know its awful- that's what makes it good. The Bronze Age is 3300BC to 1200BC- basically the time of Ancient Egypt (The Great Pyramids is from 2500BC), Mesopotamia, Hittites, Babylonians. For context, Moses would be in the 1300s BC, so the Bronze Age ENDED right around when the events in the Old Testament of The Bible took place. The Greeks were in the 400s and 300s BC so this civilization would be BEFORE Greece or Rome
yeah, a lot of people really don't understand how "long" ancient history actually was, it's centuries but it often gets wrapped together as "ancient times"
Bronze Age means all their metal tools are built out of bronze, unlike the iron or stone age.
It's a standard way to classify eras because for civilizations to compete they had to be using the same quality metals and know the techniqued because it was what was military on the level at the time.
Talk about a pull amirite?? Can’t wait to see your reaction to this one.