UNCUT - The Swarm (VOY S3E4) | Star Trek Journey 424
Comments (63)
My understanding is that they got rid of Michael Pillar. The other writers didn't like the direction he was taking the show.
No offense taken from this cool doctor. (⌐ ͡■ ͜ʖ ͡■)
"I don't understand???" "Jim...you're name is Jim" "Ah" This was perfect lol
There is a lot I like about this episode. Having there be no connection between the A and B story (whichever is which) is nice because it lets the Doctor's story function on its own, and it's a nice story IMO. There's no "OH NO THE PLOT" ruining that plotline. I also like that we still don't know a thing about the swarm. Call it lazy, but it feels a lot like the Botha from Persistence of Vision, whose only motivation is "because I can." Some things should be left a mystery. It may have all been a little undercooked, both plotlines could have used a dedicated episode. But I like it.
Good focus on Bob Picardo and his talents. Nice interactions between Doctor and B'Elanna. Kes is the one who saves the Doctor. It's a nice moment for her. Memory Alpha notes one early title for the episode was "The Patient" but network pressure caused them to add more action. Also, don't you know Janeway doesn't like bullies.
funny janeway calls a race that doesnt want strangers cross their space "bullies" and then illegaly enters their space and killing a bunch of them xD who is the bully here xD
did i hear them correctly them saying the hologram sounded "russian" ? xD thats the most italian accent i have ever heared in my life xD i dont speak italian or russian but come on thats not even close to russian thats was a perfect italian accent xD
First time watching. Doctor having computer dementia was good. The rest not so much. Also Janeway deciding she will just ignore Star Fleet protocols of not encroaching into territories of other species was a bit hard to buy after two seasons worth of speeches about how "bluh bluh bluh we must hold onto our Star Fleet values now more than ever". Eh... 🤷♂️
I think this one suffers from the same problem as The Muse. The title derives from the less interesting story that takes up less screen time and that's what people remember it for. The swarm aliens are frankly extremely boring. There's really nothing to know about them beyond the fact they operate in swarms of smaller ships. The Doctor's story is quite good though, and at least Kes got a fair bit to do for a change. I do feel she's somewhat naive in just how much she anthropomorphizes the Doctor, especially when another hologram built on the same program and Janeway and the Doctor himself have all told her his responses and personality are essentially just lines of code. Now will at some point his program grow so large that his feelings and motivations become genuinely his own and not just a preset program? Perhaps. I would assume Data could also be programmed to display such personality traits, but arguably he would be "faking it", which seems to be how the diagnostic program categorizes the Doctor's various personality traits. I would have been nice if they included a line about doing periodic defragmentation, or adding new memory circuits as his program expands to avoid this happening again. Gotta agree with the consensus on this one. Would have been better if they just focused on the Doctor's story and left the alien of the week out of it. C+
LIke Kahn, you guys suffer from two-dimensional thinking. Weeks or months of time could pass between episodes. The stories don't all magically take place 7 days apart.
The guys are in a slump of having three ratings: 1) awesome, best of the best, top level Trek, 2) average, but since it's not blowing them away no matter how much they acknowledge is good, it's still disappointing and boring, and 3) hate it. I think this does Trek in general a disservice. No matter what TV show you're watching, generally speaking, the majority of episodes will be mid-level, alright episodes. 10% will be amazing, 10% will be awful, and the rest are going to fall in the middle. I wish the guys would stop bashing on mid-level episodes just because it didn't succeed in delivering something exceptional. The episodes we've gotten in season 3 have all been good Star Trek episodes. No, they're not the best. But they're still succeeding in building characters and telling entertaining stories. Just because an episode was, in their opinion, average, doesn't mean it was contract-filler and that those writing it/producing it/directing it/or otherwise involved in its creation didn't care about it and just rushed through it. They tried to make every episode a success. I believe there are really only very few true "contract filler" episodes (Shades of Gray comes to mind).
I really disagree with you to be honest. I *binge* watched Voyager nearly 20 years ago now on a DVD boxset and I remember in season 3 the fatigue was *real*. I specifically remember thinking "is this really the best story they have to tell!?". I think their reaction to Voyager at the moment is getting slightly impatient at its directionlessness which is very real.
I haven't watched the reaction yet, but before I do, let me just say I have no memory of this episode whatsoever. Even when I read the synopsis to try and jog my memory on what this one was about, nothing. Judging from the comments here, I'm assuming there's a reason why I don't remember this. Update: Yep. Just watched the entire reaction and I don't remember this episode at all. I agree with pretty much everything you guys said. The Doctor stuff is good, but it should have been its own thing and developed more. The Swarm is a good idea, but the way it's just thrown into this episode and not developed at all basically wastes that entire premise. This could have been two really good individual episodes, but instead, we have two half-finished ones thrown together in a way that apparently isn't memorable at all.
The best part about this episode is in one week, they have put 15 months between themselves and the Kazon.
Unless the Kazon also go through the Swarm space. I wish they would. They'd get wrecked.
Once again you nailed another reaction their insistence of A-B story when they could have just padded out the doctors story
Captain we can save The Doctor if we merge his memories with Tuvix. Janeway: Erase him immediately, in fact don't bother, I'll do it.
Never take a shuttle anywhere, you will always be attacked or kidnapped.
I wonder what the word count for the technobabble is for this episode? There was a LOT! To me that's a clear sign of thin writing.
Interferometric particles
After this turkey episode, you guys need a palette cleanser....a Kolchak episode comes to mind, lol.
When you can’t recognize Italian I weep for our educational system
From "we're not ship guys" to "We're not language guys"
When you start watching NUtrek you’ll be begging for the “90’s people”
They might very well like it. They seem to be much more interested in the quality of the production than in the quality of the sci-fi stories.
Hey they managed to teach Uhura everything she ever learned again in a week, I think they can do it for the Doctor too
headcannon- they used neurostimulators and most of it was still there not needed to be unlocked
Another good episode with a technology that’s kind of accidentally prescient. I’ve had similar problems with LLMs that started to lose their memories and personalities. As for the swarm plot, I like that they don’t give us much information about them. It makes them much more mysterious and leaves a lot to the imagination. Did they call the woman at the beginning Russian? Yes, opera is famously Russian… They also use the stereotypical pinched-fingers gesture 🤌, roll their Rs, and use words that end in “a” and “i.” I swear, some of their comments are baffling. I can understand their confusion about most of the scientific concepts, but this is basic trivia that should be common knowledge.
See my above comment about weeping for our educational system
One of the better episodes of the show up to this point. The Doctor stuff is all great and takes up the majority of the episode and Kes get's some good stuff here to. The swarm was a fine secondary story point.
Good Start into Season 3! (For the Doctor Part) The B Plot is D as a D can be.
Why would a holographic doctor need to scrub before a procedure? 🤔
Because he doesn't want flip the switch that allows matter to pass through him
Torres is half-Klingon, not a quarter.
I am surprised you guys did not like this one that much, but I can't disagree with any of the criticism.
There are generalities, but I feel like a lot of their assesment depends on their mood in the particular day. I think the end of TNG biased (and not understanding some things) to being unnecessarily harsh towards "The Jem'Hadar" for example
Janeway, dealing with foreign diplomacy, THE MAQUIS WAY! A good doctor episode, the ending of the B plot where the aliens are attacking is fine, it works for what its purpose is, adding tension to the Doctor's situation where no one is available to help Kes. As everyone says, Robert Picardo just chews every scene he is in so well, you almost forget about the B plot entirely as it just sort of is there. Depsite being a Doctor story it is told mostly from Kes POV which probably makes stuff like what is going on with the Swarm feel more disconnected because she isn't a bridge officer. I think it is a good B/B+ episode. Technically not the first episode of season 3, its a "Doctor" episode.
Before I watch, just from the intro... I suggest The Joel Grey Award for a Star Trek Episode per season. Given to a truly bad/boring episode with the elements/potential to have been great. Then we play the winner off to Ellemerain from Move Along Home.
Like Summer, I tend to like this episode, mainly due to the Doctor. He's actually my favorite character so far in this series. Overall, i'd rate this episode a solid B.
"You guys, we need a techy name for a pulse that interferes with things. What can we call it?..." Wasted, underbaked B-plot, and some nice character stuff in the A-plot that's hampered by a disaster that resolves somehow because reasons. So, you know, worth watching for Robert Picardo. And it's worth noting that on my imaginary crossover series, Battlestar Voyager, they would absolutely have nuked the swarm.
Parts of this episode are a little rough to watch if you've had experience with family members with dementia.
🫂🖖
crossing a hostile region of space with as "swarm" civilization is a great idea. But somehow has been wasted here for the B-Plot. Btw I saw this episode the first time now and it was quite okay. Not great but also far from bad :)
This also is the latest Trek episode that I realize wants me to see Data and the Doctor as 'alive', but in truth I still don't beyond "getting into the spirit of the show" to pretend that I do in order to enjoy the show and characters more. I think anyone who has any background in computer programming, even just website programming, might understand partially where I'm coming from. If you program a computer to say "I'm alive, help me!" when someone interacts with it, and nothing else, probably no one thinks "OMG, it's alive, and I have to help!" But for some reason, if you do the exact same thing thousands of different ways, suddenly fools gold and gold are the same metaphorical 'thing' in people's eyes, and that's the thing I keep bumping up against: The A in AI stands for artificial, and it will always be artificial, and I think 'looking under the hood' of how AI operates really exposes that IMO.
Until we understand more about the origin of human consciousness I have a hard time deciding something isn’t “alive” simply because it’s artificial. Because the basis of their consciousness is programming rather than whatever causes human consciousness therefore it isn’t “alive”? I can agree it’s not the same process but what if the functional result in experience is indistinguishable?
Michael Piller was barely involved with Star Trek at this point. He had left to work on a different show he had created. (I believe it was called "Legend" starring Richard Dean Anderson.) All Piller was doing for DS9 and VOY at this point was reading the scripts and writing notes for them, but he no longer had any power to enforce them. So Behr and Taylor could just ignore them if they wanted.
RDA and John DeLancie
Taylor rewrote the swarm parts because the network wanted more action to counter falling ratings. (Also, the union is Directors Guild of America.)
Michael Piller was "Unavailable" Take that as you will. (Google AI) But beside that this was one of my favorite Robert Picardo episodes. I actually like the swarm. I'm sorry you didn't.
Also, couldn't they just use the holodeck to make a substitute for the Doctor? Give it a personality, give it the databases, let it go to work?
The way the show describes it makes it seem as if The Doctor is a more complex model than something the holodeck can produce. How? I don’t know, but I’ll buy it for the premise of the character
Classic bully behavior! *checks notes* ..... Having borders, and telling people not to cross that border without your permission! Classic bullies!
Oh dear, yeah Janeway kind of committed some pretty serious crimes here - not only did she violate their space (despite advisement from Tuvok), but also blew up quite a few of their ships. Janeway "sometimes, you just have to punch your way through!"
Do you think we will see Dr. Lewis Zimmerman again? Do you want to?
If they have a good story for him, sure
This would have been much better if they'd ditched the swarm stuff and just focused on the Doctor. I feel like DS9 would have had the confidence to just do a small character story like that without having an action side plot to bulk it out. The Swarm stuff was at most the beginning of an episode idea.
You don‘t have to speak it, but I thought even Americans with their Mafia movie obsession recognize the difference between Italian and Russian.
Yes I thought she was supposed to be Italian
The main takeaway from this episode, for me, is that you both need to brush up on your knowledge and origins of opera ;) Yeah, completely agree with your appraisal. Not much more to say.
I may be alone but I like this one, it is one of my favorite Doctor episodes
I am with you. The Doctor is actually my favorite character.
An "OK" attempt to address Measure of a Man themes. TUVIX was great for a human angle so interesting to see how they approach an EMH vs Data
I like to think this episode shows more a continued evolution of the Doctor, technically I don't really consider him an "EMH" anymore after this episode.