UNCUT - Flashback (VOY S3E2) | Star Trek Journey 422

It’s wild to think that we are now as far removed from this episode as this episode was from the original series.

I find this episode to be a nonsensical mess. They all know its just in Tuvok's head so why they be acting like that?

This is your opportunity to go back and watch Star Trek VI again. Hell yeah! You will discover they brought back all the bridge crew from Excelsior in the movie for this Voyager episode. I like this episode; it is a great supplement to Star Trek VI, showing how much Sulu tried to help the crew of the Enterprise. It was nice to see where Sulu got his tea that we see crash to the floor in the movie when they are hit by the energy wave and to understand why Tuvok left and came back to Starfleet. I am certain you already know this, but Saavik was supposed to be the character who participated in the plot to kill the chancellor. That would have given the movie a much more powerful emotional impact on fans. She is half Romulan, so it kind of made sense, but Gene and the other studio execs freaked out at the idea, so they brought in the new character Valeris instead.

You guys rewrite of the episode would have been much much better

The producers , back then, unlike today respected TOS. What you said was true today with Nutrek, the producer hate TOS

This was just “okay” to me. I strongly agree with your comments on the episode. I find a lot of Voyager of this time okay, but could have been great.

This episode was a holdover from season 2 production to match the 30th anniversary. I like this episode because it's justice for Janice Rand. She's Sulu's first officer.

They should have had the guest stars in the hook but that being said your not going to have a George takai in the episode without credit

Imagine if we got a recurring Sulu vs Kang series exploring this unexplored era between TOS and TNG

If you (or anyone reading) likes this concept of an "idea" or "memory" that is alive/viral and has defense mechanisms against being detected check out the book "There is No Antimemetics Division" by QNTM, the audiobook is great I think the narrator brings a lot to the story (or read it but make sure it's the new novel not the old SCP Foundation version the novel version is much better.) In that world/novel they'd call this a memetic entity or a memetic virus. It's just the tip of the iceberg in what that sort of idea can bring to a story/world. For anyone who likes horror and outer limits/twilight zone/backrooms vibes you NEED to check this story out. Very highly recommended especially the audiobook, it flies by it's super engaging.

"This is the PENULTIMATE episode of season 3. And also the HONESTLY ABSOLUTELY TRUE FOR REAL THIS TIME GUYS ACTUAL FIRST EPISODE of season 3" - TA in a few months probably

My thought was the memory and meld with Janeway was the way to get her onscreen with Sulu that doesn't retcon or mess with the continuity.

Between Star Trek VI & this episode, George Takei also reprised his role as Captain Sulu of the Excelsior in three full cast audio dramas published by Simon & Schuster. They are all uploaded for free on YouTube (as well as available for purchase on audible & iTunes) if anyone wants to check them out. The radio plays run about 70 minutes each and the titles are: Transformations, Cacophony, and Envoy.

Tuvok probably didn't reach out out to the other vulcans in "Meld" because he would rather not let the other vulcans know about the intense emotions he felt from the Betazoid. Vulcans may "not" have emotions but they do take pride in being vulcan and are private about personal problems

I feel bad that George Takei had to be in this episode. Do better Voyager. Sulu and Kang bring this up to a D.

I wish those nerds would stop saying "Don't read the credits" when talking about a future episode because that's a spoiler that there's going to be a guest star

I was watching a new Netflix show last night and the guest stars were listed in the opening credits. I sighed, shook my head, and whined. Oh wait, i didn't do any of those things.

Star Trek 6 last big trek movie? Generations catching strays!

I am interested to see your reactions to this. Personally i love it, and i know you'll be excited seeing the TOS actors, but i also know how especially Alex feels about my favourite of the films which this links to. Hopefully it will give you a new interest in TUC but i doubt it lol.

"you know it's happening, go save his ass" wtf? how? it's a memory, not a holodeck program

I pretty much enjoyed this. The Doctor was especially eloquent and effective, Janeway's dismissal of Kirk era Starfleet was mildly annoying.

Nonsense! TOS movie uniforms are the best uniforms. As for the episode, it's okay. It's nice to see more of Captain Sulu and that era of Trek. I kind of wish it was a different mission rather than ST6 again.

next time i see alex, i'mma sell him some Quail Eggs as Duck Eggs, and just call em eggs, since he doesn't wanna hear the specifics.

I remember loving this episodes (and still do for the most part) but not liking the ending. It feels too much like a rug pull to me. But this episode is the kind of fan service I like and I can appreciate it for the good time it is.

The few expanded Excelsior scenes were cool; Janeway waxing poetic about Kirk's days was fire; but the rest of the episode is BORING. Felt like they mostly wasted the opportunity to bring back Takei and the Excelsior.

One problem I see with this channel, and it's a necessary evil, is that you guys aren't watching the "Next time on Star Trek: Insert Name Here..." previews. Fans of Voyager knew Sulu was going to be in this episode a week ahead of time. But it does suck that they gave this away in the credits.

i always loved comparing bridge to one from movie and see differences as remade excelsior bridge, beside obvious of tuvok was human in the movie

Michael Piller left Voyager in the middle of Season 1 to create LEGEND for UPN. It costarred Richard Dean Anderson and John de Lancie. After LEGEND was canceled, he returned to Voyager early in Season 2. He crafted the serialized Kazon storyline. He also pushed for more modern story telling with quicker paced scenes. The other writers bristled under his control, after getting used to more freedom during his absence. They also felt the “Jonas calling the Kazon” scenes ruined their otherwise strong episodes. They went to Rick Berman and said they would all leave if Piller came back for Season 3. Piller wrote Basics Part 2 and chose to go, leaving Jeri Taylor as showrunner. Contrary to some other comments left, Piller did not return to DS9. Ira Steven Behr remained the showrunner there.

This is a lot of Trek. You need to think HARD coming up. This one is good. Love Sulu, but it's not my favorite..

I must admit I thought the guys would have had a much more powerful and emotional reaction to Janeways speech about Starfleet officer of that era being a different breed, would love to ride shotgun with them etc etc. that was always such a powerful tribute to TOS for us fans back then

I wasnt here when you were watching TOS, but... 1. They didnt want Kirk to have a single possible love interest 2. They needed to cut minor cast members to save money, and the producers asked them o cut one of the female minor characters, Rand or Nurse Chapel. Given that Chapel was played by Roddenberry's wife, so... yeah. Also she says she was sexually assaulted by a production executive on the show which worsened problems she was already having and lead to depression and substance abused which she recovered from with the support of Nimoy who was a functional alcoholic during his time on the series.

You're partially right. Moore said Braga and the Voyager showrunners were not fans of TOS. DS9 however...

he's acting out the memories because hes not trying to change the past but discover where the suppressed memory came from and he doenst know why he keeps going back there. it would make zero sense to save the guy or change anything because thats not what happened and it wouldnt help him achieve his goal of inestigating where the traumatic memory came from. Of course he is just sort of "replaying" what actually happened. The part where Sulu sees Janeway was because of his memories fracturing, thus the need to prevent that disruption by hiding her so the memory plays out as it actually happened. Only by him accssing the memory did it allow for the Doctor to make the discovery when he fled Tuvok's brain with Thoron radiation

He's acting out the memories because hes not trying to change the past, he

Maybe it was also because of how much older the actors were when they wore those uniforms that it was kind of jarring going from TOS to see these much older versions of the characters? I don't think the older actors would have looked good in the TOS original uniforms.

As i wrote, Takei agreed because he thought it would be a soft pilot for a Sulu based show

so originally this has an appearance by Uhura over coms but she turned it down because the part was too small. You are correct this was because of the 30th anniversary- the studio execs specifically requested an episode that would tie into TOS and fit as an homage. Originally Braga had conceived of the mind virus idea as a way to go back with Tuvok to see Janeway's first commission, but they used the idea for the 30th anniversary request and made it more about Tuvok. The long breakfast intro and the Keethera scene with Kes were added because the deletion of the Uhura scene which they had written into the script made the episode run short. Originally, the episode started with the log entry that comes after the breakfast scene in the finished episode. Tim Russ apparently made some corrections to the script to make it more in line with what was established about Vulcans (another sign the writers didnt really care about conitinuity even at this point) including that originally Tuvok mated with a human after Pon Far which was going to be the reason why he changed his mind about starfleet and humans. Russ also asked Braga to include more about Tuvok's background and these two changes lead to the dialogue between Tuvok and Janeway in the bunk. Originally after "what made you come back to starfleet?" involved his attraction to this human he mated with during Pon Farr but Russ said that didn't make sense in terms of being inconsistent with what was established about Vulcans so there was a longer bit of dialogue explaining his shift. Recall the original concept of the episode made before the 30th anniverary request was more focused on Janeway's first commision with the mind virus as a means to tell what was primarily a Janeway story so when it was switched to focus on Tuvok Braga was more focused on the virus and the Excelsior then exploring Tuvok's character. Takei, Russ, and Whitney were all big fans of the final script. Takei actually learned of his apearrance from a fan he was friends with who had read about before Takei himself was invited to do the episode. Only after Takei agreed was the script written and changed from the original idea Braga had about janeway. Takei's only 2 disappointments were that he only got to act along with Mulgre and Russ. Apparently he really wanted to act alongside Wang (kinda random but apparently Wang was the only actor who he was familiar with beforehand) and the actors had aged so much from Star Trek 6 that they couldnt reuse footage for the bridge scenes and had to recreate them. Russ especially appreciated it since he had been a fan of TOS which was partially why he was so insistent about not contradicting established Vulcan lore. Takei was impressed though by the attention to detail in recreating the scenes from Star Trek 6, movement for movement and finding all the original actors from that scene, even those who were no longer active actors. Whitney also read on the internet about her possible appearance before she was contacted to do it. Jeremey Roberts was especially thrilled to reprise his role as Valtane as he never imagined he would be playing the character again. He did more in this episode then he had done in the movie. Boris Krutonog who plays the Excelsior helmsman came back despite a leg injury he had a cast on for that was hidden on set. They were able to build the Excelsior bridge set in just ten days, whereas usually bridge sets take three months., way less budget and a full 360 set as opposed the "Relics" TOS bridge recreation which had three walls and used bluescreen to finish the look. They did have to simplify a few minor details but they would only be noticeable if you carefully studied the movie scene and at the time no fans reported noticing. They also had a few small elements from the Star Trek 6 set that were still in storage, like the viewscreen the ops and conn consoles, as well as the aft bridge alcove and the consoles on either side of it. there were also elements that had been repurposed for DS9 sets that they got to use (hence how they were able to rebuild in such record time and comparatively cheap. The Excelsior bridge's graphics that were available from storage included virtually all the upper-level graphics and half the mid-level displays. Scenic artists Wendy Drapanas and Jim Magdaleno digitized much of Michael Okuda's art from Star Trek VI, producing it much quicker than it had originally been done. Okuda stated, "Wendy Drapanas and Jim Magdaleno again recreated all the backlits, because – even though the set existed – there was a great deal of work to be done." All the tape loops of sensor images used in Star Trek VI were found, fairly intact, in storage. These loops were then displayed on twenty-five video "computer monitors" on the reconstructed Excelsior bridge set. Monitors were loaned from both DS9 and Star Trek: First Contact, in a concerted effort to help produce this anniversary installment of Voyager. Finally, the positions and exact timings of the loops were intricately matched with footage from Star Trek VI. Video supervisor Denise Okuda recalled, "Michael and I sat in front of our laserdisk ST:VI at home and tried frame by frame to match it. There were inconsistencies in the film due to editing, but we tried to match as much as possible the location and position of the monitors. The only downside is that our taped displays today are around 5-10 minutes long to give the video operators a break, but the tapes from ST:VI are a maximum of 12 minutes." Shortly after he started to become involved with this episode, George Takei found that his captain's costume from Star Trek VI no longer fit him. "It was funny, but they dragged out a costume that, they told me, was the same one I wore as Captain Sulu in the movie," Takei recalled. "I tried to put it on and I was very shocked at the cheap material that they had used. The fabric had somehow shrunk. The pants didn't fit!" Remarking on how his own 23rd century uniform felt, Tim Russ stated, "Like a rug: thick and heavy, all wool. The shirt underneath is Lycra, but they're generally much harder to get in and out of." The visual effects shots that had originally been created for Star Trek VI and were reused in this episode were exterior shots of the Excelsior and the shock wave from the explosion of Praxis. The exterior views that are not taken from Star Trek VI, however, show a slightly different ship; the Excelsior's warp nacelles have the typical blue glow in the new footage but not in the original. The model used for Kang's battle cruiser was the last reuse of the K't'inga-class model, which had been used in Star Trek VI to represent Kronos One. In the Voyager comics by Marvel there was coincidentally, a comic about the Voyager being thrown back in time and to the Alpha Quadrant and running into the Excelsior commanded by Sulu which had to be scrapped because of this episode. Originally, Takei and Whitney were told this might be a "backdoor pilot" for a Sulu based series which Takei had long been lobbying for. However, the idea was canned due to lack of popularity with fans based on their responses. A problem some had with he episode was that Sulu's impromptu rescue plan which was not described in the movie seemed to ill-conceived and reckless to be believable. I personally would side with Tuvok here that this plan was insane... that one ship was going to travel to Kronos through the empire without any shielding from klingon sensors, resuce kirk and McCoy, and escape unharmed. The episode did mess up the time frame from the movie, which sould be explained as a consequence of Tuvok's memory beign scrambled and damged from the virus. However, it would then mean that Sulu's rescue plan had to have occurred over two months from them encountering the wave from the Praxis explosion, as Spock listed in his log the explosion was recorded two months ago BEFORE the Enterprise even rendezvous with the Klingon ship for the negotiations where the Chancellor is assinated. Russ loved the filling in of the backstory for Tuvok and says he used that going forward to inform his portrayal of the character. By coincidence, when Tuvok asks to scan the nebula for the Klingon ships, back in the Beta Quadrant, the Klingons have demanded the withdrawal of the Federation from Archanis, setting the stage for serious hostilities betwene the Klingon and the federation as depicted in the season 4 finale of DS9. The novelization of the episode includes an element deleted from an early version of the script where kes is effected by Tuvok and has hallucinations which lead to her attacking Tom and at one point replacing the girl who fell in the memory. That was a long one, but I thought it was all pretty interestin and better to make it one post then writing a bunch

I appreciate the explanation which i always thought that the explosions on the bridge are due to plasma conduit ruptures ( a much more powerful form of energy transfer) as opposed to electric shock which would mean they dont have circuit breakers

On this one, I totally agree with you about the opening credits. They give away where we're going long before we get there.

"Ah yes, argon, one of the best elements." Fun fact: I'm a physicist who specializes in using argon to detect neutrinos and search for dark matter. I agree, it's one of the best elements.

I watched this while enjoying French Fries topped with Swiss cheese and slices of Canadian Bacon on it. I dip them in Italian Dressing. Of course French Onion soup on the side where I dip my English muffin. I wish I had had a much lighter meal like a Greek salad but then should i have Italian sausage or Polish sausage? I really wish I had used Russian dressing instead. I am joking of course. However, there is one thing that requires a country's name................. Scotch...............Do not give me that sh*t Irish whiskey or worse Canadian whiskey.

They put Tuvok's station in the very front corner which we never see in TUC. Yes Rand, Beltine, the Helmsman etc. are from the movie as well. Too bad your dislike for TUC haha, the return to it doesn't necessarily hit the same lol. Undiscovered Country was the first Trek movie I got to see in theaters all those years ago and I enjoyed it and they hype building up to it so it stands out more to me. The visual upset seeing the name appear in the credits, would have been nice if they had been more of a surprise when appearing. Fan service maybe but just something to help celebrate the Anniversary. For awhile there was a notion of a Sulu series aboard the Excelsior, might have been cool to see go forward. I know we saw another Vulcan on the ship in Caretaker, whether that was one of the crew that made it or not but not that far fetched that there would be another or two.

You need to Youtube the comparison between this re-make and the original footage from star trek 6. There are side by side videos showing the original and the voyager remake with Tuvok and all... I know you guys love reading the guest stars at the beginning ruining surprised... For the record, 99% of us never read the guest star at the beginning... very rarely were they noticed on first watch. maybe on re-run. That being said, the surprise for us was ruined by the episode trailer constantly playing all week showing us SULU but not KANG. I honestly have not noticed KANG until today watching this with you guys. I'm more of a DS9 FAN...

Excited to see how Josh and Alex feel about a rehash of their favorite movie.

Since I separate from the movies from canon, old tradition, this hits as a C or B- but still the directing and acting were good so its enjoyable to watch, watch it again right now, the credits won’t be as bothersome, any clarifications won’t be as annoying, nothing can help if the food is annoying. But a lot of issues watch one go away by watch ten. Your first viewing Balance of Terror wasn’t good and it is a pivotal TOS episode. These things happen. In the last two years I have changed my mind on 10 episodes when I had already seen them many times

this episode was to celebrate the 30th anniversary of Trek (and they'd talked about a Sulu spinoff show for years) and today, is the 60th anniversary of Star Trek (i was 15 when i saw this episode air on TV)

A virus! A virus, they think I am a virus! Never got to use that quote before

Great shirts for this one

P.s. you guys have to watch the opening scene of ST 6 again!

What bothers me more than food references are animal ones. You're as cunning as a Bolean cat. You're as cranky as a Alcanian slug beast...etc.

The fact at first viewing I was more familiar with Enterprise and TNG and Voyage Home than TOS has impact

I saw patron takes complain that the way they got to the past didn’t matter, but there were almost 15 minutes of a lot before they went, I love the orange juice scene and on the bridge, sure the illness doesn’t matter as much but the flashback was couched in an actual episode

So now we wait if DS9 will do anything with the 30th anniversery as well. Do you think they pay similiar respects? Do you think a episode of that kind would be better than Flashback? What do you think theme and location would be? What would you wish for?

"Their ships were half as fast," makes the whole episode. Love that delivery from Mulgrew.

Well I’m apparently a defector on this one, give me big fat slice of fan service! Is the episode perfect? No. But is it fun? Hell yeah! I’d give it an S just for Takei’s performance and voice alone.

So if this was the 30th anniversary episode and could have been set at any point, does that mean episode 3 is ACTUALLY the first regular episode of Voyager season 3?

In spite being a huge Trek fan who was a viewer when 90s Trek first came out, its only been during recent rewatchings that I learned that Kang, Kor, and Koloth were TOS Klingons being reportrayed by the original actors. Usually didn't pay that much attention to guest actor names, other than recent reoccurring guys like Nog, Dukat, Q and Barclay

I appreciate including me on the Patron Takes! I’ve been a fan for a while, and I can’t wait to get to continue the journey.

The French toast thing made me laugh out loud

I am far more cynical about this than most people. I knew it was anniversary celebration back when it aired and it just felt like a half-assed effort that ended on a nostalgic sentiment the episode didn't seemed to earn. Like those behind the scenes didn't want to make it.

Did anyone else notice the Target Audience overlay flipped back and forth from Voyager to Excelsior throughout the episode? I have to wonder if I missed little details like this before.

I always picture myself as the little girl in this episode except I'm screaming "Brannon Braga, make this episode stop! Noooooooooooo!".

If you really want to watch it as "authentic as possible", you need to watch the 'next week' promo that aired directly following each episode, like we all did. Then you wouldn't be all upset at the spoiling credits!

Alex rightly notes Mr. Kyle had a cameo in Star Trek 2. Actor John Winston played Lieutenant Kyle in TOS and was usually seen as a transporter operations officer. In total, he appeared in almost a dozen TOS episodes. He also shows up in The Animated Series with a mustache, voiced by James Doohan.

Rand and Chapel are both in the first movie and the fourth movie. Chapel is in Starfleet Command when the whale probe begins wreaking havoc.

I'm not sure how much you guys realize that Star Trek V is hated by those who are 60-70 years old. They hate it 100x more than you guys hate ST6.

I'm with you on the food thing

I completely forgot Kang was in this one.

So many things people are wanting to comment about here, but can't...

Funny subtle joke with Janeway Sulu doesn't exactly look right. I presume it's their winking acknowledgment that Takei and the others look older.

I agree. Shallow and pedantic.

I love most of this episode but a sleeper hit moment is the smirky way Janeway says, "Their ships were //half// as fast." Makes me snicker every time.

FYI, its' not unusual for a virus to live dormant in your body for decades before surfacing and making you ill.

I was surprised to learn the ST6 stuff is mostly shot for shot remake instead of original footage, to my eyes it was very well done. It's definitely worthwhile to go back and watch the first ten minutes of the movie after seeing this. There are also some good YouTube videos out there comparing them directly. ST6 was hugely successful and Voyager was starting to struggle in the ratings so it makes sense why calling back to that movie was considered a good selling point rather than an original adventure, even if it's less fun creatively.

This episode establishes Tuvok as 109 years old in 2373 (when “Flashback” occurs). He was born in 2264 and was 29 during the events of Star Trek VI in 2293.

Aw... I know we all knew who the guest stars would be, but for your purposes, that credit reveal sucks. I didn't remember how late that scene happened, so I'm disappointed to not see a surprised reaction...

This episode was produced during season two just after “Basics, Part 1”. Two more episodes were produced before they produced “Basics, Part 2”.

You wondered if there was a commercial break between Tuvok’s panic attack in Engineering and the brain scan in sickbay. There wasn’t one, it was a fade out transition, which was pretty cool at the time I thought.

The Praxis explosion scene was a shot for shot remake of the scene from ST 6. All of the same Excelsior crew from the movie were used for the recreated scene. There are some minor differences in the two scenes but other than that they did a pretty good job with it. But there are two glaring continuity errors. There was a considerable amount of time between the Praxis explosion at the beginning of the movie and the next scene when we see Kirk & crew at the briefing at Starfleet Command. This episode states that Sulu mounted a rescue of Kirk & Dr McCoy two days after the explosion. The other major error is Dmitry Valtane dying. In the movie he is seen with the Excelsior crew when Sulu is talking to the Enterprise crew on the viewscreen at the end of the movie.

I am also Team Alex on how annoying it is to make every food come from an alien world. My related pet peeve is the "like a match into gasoline" thing, where they explain some tech thing and then turn it into a kindergarten metaphor to make sure you get it. "Captain, we will be firing phasers at their warp core." "Just like putting a ball of tin foil in the microwave!" Buuuuut this was actually a better episode than I remembered. The Excelsior stuff was largely wasted, and I am Team Josh on wishing the cool mind-virus concept could have gotten its own episode. But there was a lot of Tuvok backstory I'd forgotten and Tim Russ hit all the right notes with it.

I just noticed that they also messed up the timing of the movie. Kirk and Co. went out to escort Gorkon two MONTHS after the shockwave, not two days as Tuvok related. *shrug*

I'm with Alex on the "Bolian blueberries" thing. Either they should just call them blueberries, or even more likely they'd have a unique name. They'd be pakalacks or something. Or maybe those are names other races just give them? Like... "What's a pakalack?" "It's like a Bolian blueberry."

I felt the same as Alex in Generations when Kirk said "these are Katarian eggs." When it came to food, TOS was distinctly HUMAN (Romulan ale not withstanding), so it felt out of place and more TNG than Kirk.

Your behind the scenes guess was right: The studio heads wanted a 30th anniversary episode, and Braga used a sci-fi idea he had already intended to write, just plugging the Excelsior in.

Janice Rand "Who are you?" Janeway "I need your clothes, your boots, and your shuttlecraft." Never been a hater of this one like many seem to be. It has issues for sure, but it's not terrible. C for Contract filler, anniversary edition. I agree a lot of the dialogue is pretty on the nose in terms of "we're celebrating 30 years of Trek, have some nostalgic references". Still cool to see Sulu, Kang and Rand again, even if they're underused. The memory parasite could have been interesting as the catalyst for a story, but arguably even Shades of Grey gave us more to work with concerning the plant that stung Riker. They really did the bare minimum to set up Tuvok's memories here, and there were better ways to explore his time on the Excelsior. Too many elements just never really come together to get this episode into Banger status. Valtane couldn't have actually died there considering we saw him alive at the end of TUC. Then again the parasite was migrating to Janeway while Tuvok was still alive, so it could have jumped hosts when Valtane was merely injured. Presumably the other kids who dropped the girl off the cliff after Tuvok, Janeway and Valtane were previous hosts presumably going back centuries. Oh and Mr Kyle was in 11 episodes of TOS and 7 of TAS(voiced by James Doohan). Doohan probably did half the voice lines in that entire show though.

While this episode is basically fan service, it's fun fan service. I mean, Josh was right about this being an interesting sci-fi idea with a virus hidden in a memory, but it's really just the vehicle for seeing Tuvok together with Captain Sulu (yay!) and Commander Janice Rand (BIG YAY!) which is kind of disappointing. I think some of the rewrite ideas you threw around were great. Still, I was not (and am not now) disappointed by this episode. Fan. Service. It works.

Let's fucking go! Lore drop and cameo