UNCUT - For the Cause (DS9 S4E22) | Star Trek Journey 414

Great episode and man Alex is a grumpy bastard. That's half the fun though.

I'm a fan of this episode. I like world building, and I like the Maqui. This advances both.

The only thing that doesn't track for me is how angry Sisko is about Eddington. Sure, he'd be angry but not Javert angry. Eddington is just a weasel. With everything else going on, who really cares?

It needs to be said, Jake played with his food but didn't take a bite/sip. Maybe you're looking in the wrong place for the changeling. I think this is a solid B tier. It never blew me away or anything, and is fairly slow paced until the final act, but there's some pretty substantial character arc curveballs thrown here. Before this episode I never thought Eddington was anything but a dedicated Starfleet officer. Sure, not the most interesting character, and he did sabotage the Defiant, but he was following orders from higher up the chain of command, which is what he's supposed to do. Never saw him doing something like this. As for Kasidy, I suppose it's easy enough to buy her being sympathetic enough to the maquis cause to deliver food and medical supplies, but not weapons. Maybe she'll get the Tom Paris treatment given her fairly mild involvement. Still has to suck for Sisko given he just lost Jennifer for a second time. I do find Eddington's speech rather disingenuous though. He's asking "why won't you leave us alone". Well because when it becomes clear the federation is doing nothing about the maquis, it'll be all the excuse the Cardassians need to start another war. Granted they're in no condition to do that after the Klingon invasion, and if they're begging the federation for industrial and humanitarian aid, they're a beaten people, and the maquis are kicking them while they're down. As others have said, that goes way beyond self defense. If 2 of those big industrial replicators were enough to help rebuild Bajor, and 12 were enough to help Cardassia get back on it's feet, then there's a lot of industrial potential in those things. That could potentially make the maquis getting them a lot more worrying than getting a finite number of weapons or ships. They could potentially build a whole economy in the badlands. Either way, Eddington comparing Sisko/Starfleet to the techno zombies that killed his wife was a mistake. Sisko gonna be gunning for him now.

Okay Bridge Crew, it's time to do your job and get Krull on the movie list.

The "Mood" lighting is how the Defiant always looks under cloak. The lights power down and back up when they decloak.

I am glad this show isn't going down the road of making a bunch of character secret changelings. I feel like that would've gotten old really fast. Honestly, in almost any fiction I hate the "villain who can look like anyone" thing.

Let's be honest, folks. Kasidy is kind of a weak character. And the actress is fine, but not sure she sells the passionate revolutionary attitude convincing enough.

Well, after this episode the Maquis can't claim that "they're just defending their homes" anymore. This whole plan was purely on the offensive. They just hate Cardassians now. And if we're to believe Eddington's rant at the end, apparently they hate the Federation now too. "Just leave us alone?" Really bro? YOU were the one who just broke into our house, robbed us blind, and then threatened our lives. We didn't provoke you. You leave US alone. Cardassia is in no position to harass the Maquis right now. Their empire is basically in shambles. They had their Obsidian Order wiped out by the Dominion, an internal political coup that overthrew Central Command, and their entire empire devastated by the Klingons. As Dukat found out, they're too scared to fight, and they are so desperate that they are actually asking the Federation for aid. Those replicators the Maquis stole are desperately needed humanitarian aid. The Maquis don't even need them themselves. Yet they roped Cassidy in by convincing her that the Maquis were the ones in desperate need of humanitarian aid, all just to set her up, use her, and betray an innocent trying to help, just so they could keep the Cardasdians down for another day. At this point, the Maquis aren't victims anymore. They're the aggressors, and they're basically pirates. They're going the way that the aggressive Bajorans did in one of the universes in Parallels. All sympathy for them should die at this episode unless they change their ways. "The Cause" is no longer righteous.

I actually agree with you guys about this one. This episode isn't terrible by any means, but there's nothing special about it. There's nothing in it that gets you emotionally invested. It's an episode that needs to exist in order to further all of the over-arching plots along, but that's it. As an episode on its own, in isolation, it's just fine. People forget that when it comes to the series as a whole, people only remember this one because of the Eddington reveal at the end. Nothing else about it is memorable.

It seemed like quite a detached and/or distracted reaction to me, particularly on Alex's part. He has appeared much more animated in the X-Files reactions lately. Maybe trying to cram in extra episodes before the convention didn't help either? Personally, even after multiple viewings over the years, I still really enjoy this episode. There's so much going on plot-wise, but it never seems rushed. The Sisko/Yates interactions are so well-written and acted too.

Also, in a movie, if a big dinner scene takes at least 8 hours to shoot with make-up, set dressing, lighting, blocking, rehersals, master coverage, close-ups, blown takes, lunch breaks, bathroom breaks, camera issues continuity issues, audio issues, sight-lines and trying to get that right shot... how darn horrible is that food on that dinner table gonna be by the end of the day? How FULL would actors be if they had to commit to eating every take? And with actresses having their weight and figures constantly scrutinized by the press and casting agents, they ain't taking a BITE on camera. Once you start noticing actors not eating, you'll notice it everywhere, and when they do, it's a big exception. Otherwise it's all hidden with editing or sneaky not-bites. Or they're spitting that out after cut.

The thing with "bigger picture stories" and RDM is that, not every episode is gonna be an all-timer when its main purpose is to act as a bridge between the big beat episodes. And until you see the whole big picture, you won't know when something is an episode that goes nowhere, or one that's a stepping stone episode, or in BSG's case, the significance of a mid-tier stepping stone episode to the overall narrative.

You know Alex... just because ODO can't eat, doesn't mean other Changelings can't. Odo's young and inexperienced. Other Changlings are far more practiced. You maaaay have let the realities of TV production lead you down the garden path. Or maybe not.

Sal - Oh - May.

Since Benjamin met Cassidy through his son Jake, it is clear she was selected to get close to Jake and exploit his desire for a replacement mother figure, he being too young and naive to vet her properly he vouched for her to his father. Clearly the Marquis wanted her close to the stations commanding officer. Cassidy is a pathological liar, a traitor and a terrorist. The absolute gall she shows at the end gaslighting Benjamin telling him she loves him and will be back is Benjamin's failing if he falls for that!

I disagree with you about this episode, I love this one & and no great performances? Avery Brooks, Cirroc & Eddington all excellent performances - especially Avery - his performances especially season 3 onwards are always great. Maybe am slightly biased as he is hands down my favourite captain, with probably Kirk & Picard tied second

I think Alex was so miffed that his Cassidy is a changeling was wrong that he disliked the ep. He certainly couldn’t let it go saying he’ll be proved right. Both parts of this episode was well written, well acted and vested in the characters

The actress that plays Kassidy isn't the strongest actress. I don't know if she was taught everything most be hyper realistic at all times, but frequently she recites her lines with all the style and energy one uses while ordering Chinese take out.

This one should have been titled 'For The Because'

If you guys haven't seen it yet, you should watch the movie "KRULL." The Eddington actor was a leading man when he was younger.

To call this episode "formulaic" is utterly ridiculous. It has big reveals for two significant recurring characters and shakes things up for Sisko in a personal manner while continuing to evolve the Maquis storyline. To this day I sometimes am at a loss with these guys. This is a great episode with a lot of tension, personal stakes, and a few twists/surprises. Always been on my "excited to see" list.

It just occurred to me that that Sisko losing Casidy (to prison) hurt him in the same way as losing his wife. He just got over her, moved on, opened up, and Eddington threw her under the bus for some replicators. And then to bring up the Borg? That was the worst possible thing for Eddington to do in that moment. Sisko isn't in a logical state of mind. That wasn't an officer he spoke to at the end, but a man. An angry man. With a Defiant. - Borg killed Jennifer - Eddington killed* Cassidy - The Federation is the Borg? Nah - Eddington is the Borg? Yea

I obviously already knew the Cassidy and Eddington betrayal was coming, but I thought they were two separate episodes so I thought for sure this was the Cassidy episode and the Eddington would come later.

I just assume everyone who shoots Kira is a Maquis now.

Sisko struggles with his second love betraying him, having to be the one who arrests her, worrying about how to protect Jake from what is coming (he introduced them!!), and you felt no emotional connection?? Yet 'Lessons' had you in tears? Oh I get it. I see what's different here. Just because Cassidy (allegedly) sleeps in a bucket you can't connect? Specist.

"forgettable".... Won't age well

EmOtionAl DaMaGe! Sisko's relationships with women, from the loss of his wife, the appearance of her alternative version, and Cassidy Yates all play into his emotional makeup.

DS9 is constantly building it's lore. It's got the strongest supporting elements, the most developed & fleshed out characters...and it's thanks to episodes just like this. What most people find is that by the end of the series, they feel like the characters are real people, with all the faults and quirks real people have, and that the viewers genuinely miss.

I really enjoyed this episode. Solid A for me.

i always felt Sisko was willing to hear Eddington out right until he has audacity to compare the federation to borg, to say that to a survivor of Battle of Sector 001

Does anyone else feel that Alex genuinely doesn't enjoy DS9? He seems way harder on it than TNG or VOY.

It was okay. Was I blown away? No. But it's my own damn fault. When I binged the series, I watched season 4 first because I wanted to get to the Worf stuff. So I didn't really know Eddington much at all. So it didn't hit me hard. As far as Kassedy is concerned. I mean, she's not exactly my favorite character. (I don't believe the actress is lighting the world on fire.) Her acting sounds....stilted? I can't explain it but it sounds off to me. I admit I was surprised she was a smuggler, yes, and I did enjoy that the show actually went there. It's absolutely above average, as a whole. Don't get me wrong. B-

I don't really understand the "Cassidy doesn't eat or drink on screen" argument. During season 3 Odo says that eating for him was "messy", but there is no indication that a changeling couldn't take in food, pretend to swollow to blend in and later release it. Just like how they can store blood and release it to pass a screening.

My previous comment about Watching B5 because it would be a great companion to DS9 because of the similarities was deleted. I made sure there was no spoilers, why was it deleted? what did i spoil??? *Warning Spoilers* Maybe???

I'm with Alex. I was sad to see Yates get caught and face prison. That's a big twist that hit the first time I watched. But overall, plot beats that I enjoyed but not riveting.

I had to reload my DS9 Stream cause it started buffering during the intro, the intro really does go on forever. I logged into Paramount+ and on a different browser and still had like a minute until the intro was over.

I feel like this is what DS9 excels at - the less spicy episodes do really well at progressing the overall story, even if they don't evoke much from an emotional standpoint. It's sort of a 'contract filler' episode in terms of excitement, but it actually gives us a lot to think about going forward. I really liked Eddington's speech (up until the Borg part - not sure where he was going there), he had a great point about the Federation and I still can't understand why everyone shits on the Maquis for defending themselves against a well-established villain faction. I do wish though they'd spent more time on Sisko and Cassidy, they were almost there with the emotional stuff and if we had some more time with it (ie, we got rid of the Garak and Ziyal story), it could have really hit.

I'm a little surprised at how little discussion there was about Sisko and his relationship. I always felt pretty bad for him here, even her to some extent, and it was just such a shame to see things fall apart like that.

Acting credits have very little to do with unions. This is more of an agent issue. Agents and the actors that are represented by them have their own agenda. Actors it can be ego, agents it’s normally about making sure the person they represent get extra focus. And there are two schools of thought Special Credit at the beginning often as the most eye balls on them, while others feel that at the end brings more attention. Knowing the viewing pattern of each program helps but generally not made available especially during this time let alone for syndicated programming. It doesn’t mean they are guaranteed more money but they often do. But you get better placement and normally get better perks while filming.

I remember when Eddington was introduced in the S3 premiere thinking I didn’t trust him and was definitely not surprised when this episode landed. Very predictable. C

I always remember this Kira and Garak moment

If every Ziyal going to get a different pronunciation of her name?

For at least once (maybe twice) I 100% agree with Josh's take on this entire episode. Verbatim. But, I also don't disagree with Alex. The twist with Eddington--while effective for me the first time--wasn't executed in a very exciting or thrilling energy. Fair points all around.

When I first watched this I thought Jake was going to be Maquis, and Eddington would be a Starfleet Stooge through and through who arrests him and ends up serving as a Lawful Neutral antagonist. I couldn't imagine Eddington ever breaking the law so the Maquis twist took me by surprise, even though in hindsight "episode focusing on the Maquis after so long is also focusing on Eddington" makes that rather obvious.

This reminds me of why Jake Sisko is the alpha of all Trek kid characters. He's not written or played as a "son of Sisko", nor is it focused on as him being a child. He's Ben's friend. And that's how they talk to each other. And I'm here for it.

Kira gets shot twice by surprise Maquis members. Poor girl.

Colwyn is a Maquis!!! Wait until he breaks out the Glaive

I've been waiting for this Episode since Eddington was introduced in Season 3, and this was a disappointing reaction. Anyway, I can see now how constantly trying to GUESS things has ruined the surprise for you here with cassidy yates/Eddington and in other places. Another big issue for you is that allot of these Story Bits are much more enjoyable in a BINGE WATCH. I enjoyed watching this episode and allot of other ones including the Mirror Universe way more when i watched them together. For Example: watch the Mirror Universe and/or the Dominion War Episodes together. After you finish DS9, go back and just watch the mirror universe episodes together. It's really enjoyable. Anyway a Modern Audience is way smarter and can guess some of these surprises way better than a 1995 Audience. Which ruins some of these episodes. However , a modern audience also enjoys these classics differently than a 1995 audience. I really recommend you take note of the different story arcs and the associated episodes and go back and watch the ARCS as 1 piece. Like the riker episode , the secret cardasian ships he found in those episodes were the same ships used to attack the dominion in the "DIE IS CAST" . On a binge watch you catch these Threads/Arcs and much more . DS9 has soo many amazing story arcs that are enjoyable on re-watch. On a 2nd/3rd/4th watch you will continually catch more and more story threads that lead into future stories. If they havent been removed, There are youtube channels that takes these threads and puts them together so you can watch certain story arcs in 1 shot. (It's mostly the dominion war but it needs to be done for other story arcs)

In Civil Defense it was clear Garak was involved with the fall of Dukat’s father just not as brutal about it

I like this episode more than you guys, however, I liked Eddington from the start, so I never suspected him to be Maquis or an op at all. So, the reveal got me good. The episode in many ways was about that punch, and if it didn't land, it'd definitely pull it down.

For my part, I think Eddington reappearing in a cape for his evil reveal would have been magical.

1 balding hair is fine, 2 I get not being emotional about this one, I don’t care for Kassidy or Eddington, however it did feel like a twist my first viewing so when binging sometimes I will be interested in this one and sometimes not. 3. Dark intro Josh “we have likely survived our flights….” 4 it is odd that Dax is there for three scenes then vanishes and really after the Defiant we barely see Chief. The Garak and Ziyal was the best part.

Quickly checks how many sick days I have left Just as quickly decides ..... I don't give a shit I have my priorities Let's go! 🤩

And I thought I might get to bed early tonight. HA! Been looking forward to this one.

Actors are usually told to avoid actually eating or drinking when filming a scene. It prevents them having a full mouth when it is their line and it helps maintain continuity between shots as the prop food isn't actually consumed.

At least Alex admits here why he really hates Eddington. He is his hairline prophecy. LOL

Anyone else feel like the real reason Alex didn't care for this is that he was waiting for a Kassidy changeling reveal and he didn't get it?

Now we know why Dukat hates Garak so much. He tortured and killed Dukat‘s father! This quite important reveal unfortunately is dropped very casually. Should have been part of a direct confrontation between Garak and Dukat.

Cardassians? Only Americans walk into a hot sauna fully clothed and think this is normal and good for sweating.

The story forgot Dax. Literally. I wonder if Terry Ferrel wasn't available much the last few weeks. She wasn't on the Defiant, but she also would have to be neutralized for Eddington to take command of the station. Maybe a scene was cut I dunno. Also, Eddington became redundant once they brought Worf on. Worf basically does the same job just with more authority.

This one was better than I remember. Just wish it had more time to cook throughout the season. I agree I don't think I felt what the show wanted me to.

I guess I don't need to stay awake at work tomorrow. Welcome back and great reaction! I love Reddit Eddington's (Reddington's?) takedown of the Federation — not least because it feels like a broader takedown of the way governments play their own power games that seem completely disconnected from the needs of their citizens. I picture Ron Moore and Ira grinning maniacally as they tear down the bedrock assumption that the Federation has to be good. I gotta say, I'm here for it.

Bajor has a 26 hour day and the station keeps Bajor time.

BOOM!

Yeah I gotta stay up for this one.

Brother brothers…. I was attempting to go to bed early tonight…