UNCUT - The Muse (DS9 S4E21) | Star Trek Journey 412

I always figured the Jake storyline was about cocaine, but just unclear on its message

I don't get the hate for this episode. Sure the Jake plot isn't the best, but it isn't offensive either. And the Odo/Lwaxanna plot is great. In fact, the scene where Odo is giving his wedding vows was actually a Heart of Stone moment for my husband. He NEVER cries, but that scene made him cry because he felt the same way that Odo did about not being seen, and being afraid that people would recoil from his true self until he met me who wanted to see more. Odo's wedding vows were basically his own.

The nurse was played by Patricia Tallman, Nana Visitor's and Gates McFadden's stunt double.

Lwaxana is Odo's muse. She inspired him to admit his deep, genuine feelings in front of his friends. Poor Odo. He now realizes how much he needs someone that looks at him like Lwaxana looks at him.

I think Josh was spot on about people remembering the art succubus story being the bulk of the episode and forgetting how much of it was the Odo & Lwaxana story or even forgetting that story was in this one at all. Still wouldn't rate this one very high, but the Lwaxana story being B+/A- material and taking up so much runtime helps, but the Jake/Onaya stuff is D tier, so C overall. In regards to Odo's speech at the wedding, I never got the impression that he was talking about Kira. I maintain since The Forsaken that despite or perhaps because they're at the opposite ends of the introvert/extrovert spectrum, while also both being extremely lonely people, Lwaxana was the first person who was able to break Odo out of his shell. The first person he felt comfortable being himself around and having fun with like in the hide and seek scene. Obviously Odo has fun thwarting Quark, but that's not the same thing. I think his initially stilted speech was just a matter of him being nervous opening up like that in front of everyone else, and when he saw it was putting Lwaxana at risk of losing her son, he pushed through and overcame his anxiety. The Onaya story is......bizarre, and it's no wonder it turns people off this episode. I think Sic Coyote had the best defense of it drawing a comparison to artists who abuse substances to spark creativity. Still, given how it's presented here, I can also see why people would view this as the sort of self important, high on their own supply kind of story only a writer would think up about themselves. The one good thing to come out of it is Jake at least getting a good start on the novel we saw in The Visitor. Sure, he didn't finish(pretty sure Onaya did though😏), but even without that influence, he now has a blueprint showing what he can do when he's working at 150%. I've had projects I started years before, and when I go back to them, it's like starting from scratch. But then I look at what I had done so far, try to decipher what steps I would have taken, and bit by bit I start to see my own thought process in the work. At that point I can almost just pick up where I left off. Even if he's not going to be writing half a novel in a night or 2, he could still use what's there to get himself back in the zone creatively and maybe write a page or 2 a night. I still maintain that Ben never told Jake what he saw in The Visitor, but it's another reason for him to believe that the creativity was Jake's and Onaya just got it out of him. Onaya was never mentioned in The Visitor, and without Ben around, she likely would have killed Jake. Obviously he never had time to read more than a page or 2 of the novel, and would have been more focused on spending every second with Jake, but he definitely recognized the title. I'm sure there would have been differences in wording, variations in the story, but presumably the core idea for Anslem is one Jake had for a while. And now that part of the timeline from The Visitor exists without Jake losing his father, which again, probably alters the nature of the story somewhat, but still. So it's a step forward for Jake, which is what saves that story from E tier for me.

The lwaxana and odo episodes are always dear to my heart. My mom loved Odo and Lwaxana together. We watched these episodes when she was in hospice, so its special to me. And let's face it, their chemistry is genuinely very sweet.

I vaguely remember Mr Homm saying something like "Thank you" after chugging that entire bottle of alcohol Picard brought as a gift.

Yeah see this is the problem - the Jake / cougar lady stuff left such a bad taste in my mouth that I forgot about all the Odo Lwaxanna storyline, which although I remember and really like, assumed was in a completely different episode. Cirroc Lofton was 17 when this was filmed. Not cool. They should have taken that part of the script, put it in the bin then set fire to it.

I must admit that I appreciate Lwaxana Troi episodes in ST a lot more as an older adult than when I first saw them as a teenager. The DS9 ones in particular. That stuff is good. The B plot with Jake is trash and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

Being self-aware and having an inner monologue (if that's what you guys meant) are not the same thing. Not everyone has an inner monologue, but that doesn't mean they're not thinking or not self-aware. Not even all writers have an inner monologue.

Mr. Homn said "Thank you for the drinks" at the end of his first appearance.

I don't get the people who really don't like the "muse" alien part, it's a decent plot acting as an analogy of creative people using drugs to pull their best work out of them, which has been a common thing throughout the years. Leading to significantly shortening their life. This just turns it into a literal lifeform that does the same thing. Certainly felt a little more like a TNG episode but I think it goes well with the Odo plot. A healthy relationship vs an unhealthy relationship.

Using Jake as a self insert for the writing staff is normally just obvious. But this episode elevates it to weird and creepy.

"then he writes the entire communist manifesto"😆🤣

SAG only covers acting/on-camera work. Majel pitched an idea Ira and Echevarria began work on the story. I like that we've had a run of Jake appearing in episodes.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head, it had been a bit since I had seen this one and I SWEAR the Jake stuff was the majority of the episode. Upon a rewatch, I don't hate this as much as I originally did. We should always rewatch episodes, even if we remember hating them, before we leave a take. I've learned my lesson. ...Lessons?

I think this is a good representation of the quality of filler episodes in season 4.

The ODO /Laxwanna stuff is the strongest and the Jake story was ok and it was a good callback to the visitor. But when you complain the minor characters don’t get any screen time it’s hard to complain when they try to get them in. And Tarbold mention by Meg Foster was the port that Gary Mitchell quoted in Where no man has gone before, and Micheal Ansara Kang gets more screen time

Season One Ranking 1. The Original Series (TOS) 2. Voyager 3. Deep Space Nine (DS9) 4. The Next Generation (TNG)

I liked this episode. The Jake storyline was good enough—I bought into the premise, and I thought the "special" guest star fit the role well and gave a solid performance. The real highlight, though, was the Odo and Lwaxana story. It was full of subtle, heartfelt moments, like Odo morphing to comfort her and his reason for the marriage. Those quiet scenes really worked for me. Overall, I'd give this one a solid B.

The reason this episode is soo hated is because the Title reminds you of the god awful Jake Muse Story Line and not the Odo Stuff. Also, I've always despised luxwanna Troy. They painted her as annoying in both shows and that is how I feel about her. You guys know that she is the voice of the computer ... I wonder how often she was there just for Computer Voice Work. So it will never be her last episode because she will forever be the voice of the computer.

You mentioned that you are glad she didn't mention that she did this before (like to Van Gogh) but they kinda did. Amongst all the future alien artists she mentioned Keates. That would be John Keates, a English poet and writer who died very young.

So this is about the writer's coke addiction, right?

Season 1 TNG is probably worse than Season 1 DS9, but I think a lot of the reaction to early DS9 was surprise that it didn't just hit the ground running. That coupled with it being so different to both the audience and even the showrunners.. lead to most of s1 being somewhat... Inert. I remember friends just rejecting the actual premise, and the the fact they didn't come out swinging made them completely stop watching (Some never came back). TNG s1 was just so batshit bad that it's mildly entertaining, at least in retrospect.

I skip this episode on rewatches so this is my first time seeing it in close to 10 years. Not bad but it mostly felt like a season 1-3 episode. Also, the subplot with Odo and Lwaxana felt more like the main plot here.

I love the analysis you guy do. I think it really separates you from other reaction content too. Hell if there’s an episode I can’t bear to rewatch I’ll still watch the full analysis. Your original take that Season 1 on TNG is not as bad as you remember is actually completely fair for the time. An 11 year old me loved it because I never knew how good it could be. It’s only after seeing how great the show and the franchise would become that season 1 gets judged harshly. DS9 OTOH was built up pretty hard so your expectations were much higher than they were when you watched so I think it’s reasonable to say, especially having seeing what DS9 has become, that’s it’s be far the worst season. I’ll say this though in DS9 season 1’s defense, unlike TNG you already started loving the characters because at least the writers did continue the TNG S3+ tradition of focusing on characters so an episode like Necessary Evil hits so hard. As to this episode I think most fans don’t love Lwaxana band the Jake stuff did suck but the Odo/Lwaxana dynamic was genuinely touching as was the Ben/Jake final scene so even in an episode not beloved you get some genuinely great stuff

early tng was worse then the worst ds9

the worst episode of the whole season

Most of this episode was fine, tho I did enjoy the character moments between Odo & luwana as well as Jane & Sisko

It's a bookend to "The Visitor" from earlier in the season. I actually like the Jake stuff and don't care about Troi; I'm so over her. I thought the ending "Abslom" made the sequence work for me.

Milfhunter Jake is at it again. and look what it got him.

Not my type of episode despite having 3 great guest stars. This is my first D for a DS9 since Sanctuary in Season 2.

Got excited and thought it was "Muse" then realized that made no sense... Yep it's this bilge instead

I agree with the consensus, this is the weakest episode since season 2. Lwaxana did pitch the idea of her being pregnant by Odo and the writers originally had four stories that all involved couples but it wsnt working. They added the Jake story by they felt his epiosde didnt work. One neat bit, when the "muse" metions the names of three writers she helped, one of them was the fictional poet tha Gary quoted in Where No Man Has Gone Before from TOS.

Mr. Homm did indeed talk in “Haven”, he said “Thank you for the drinks” I believe.

Total mismatch of an A and B story. The Lwaxana/Odo story totally saves it from a D-. I’ll give it a C+.

Good thing you didn’t take that bet Alex.

The title of the episode is actually a double entendre. Yes, Onaya is Jake's muse, but Lwaxana is also Odo's muse. Aside from Kira and (begrudgingly, on Odo's part) Quark, no other single person (yes, the entire crew of DS9 together, but not singularly) has gotten Odo to engage honestly with his emotions and "humanity" more than Lwaxana. With any other person, he generally remains stoic, gruff, highly reluctant to even acknowledge his emotional state and vulnerability, let alone express it. Yes, with Garak, he finally breaks down under extreme torture. With Changeling Kira, he breaks down when he was almost certain she was going to die in a cave. With Dr. Mora Pol, he breaks down when he's sick, under severe pressure, and thinks he's turning into a monster and losing his autonomy. Here, Lwaxana gets him to deliver an impassioned (and MOSTLY honest and accurate, in actual sentiment, if not to the exact extreme degree he's claiming) emotional speech about how much she means to him, in a situation where the stakes are fairly low for him, all things considered. She inspires him to be more open, expressive, softer, and overall BETTER, and she does it WITHOUT approaching ruining his life in his eyes. So, yeah . . . "The Muse" IS kinda the A plot. The B plot is a slightly more subtle misdirect. Very clever. I will also note, I am usually mostly lukewarm to meh on Lwaxana episodes. Not hate, not love-to-hate, a little eye-roll, but fine. However, I've always felt this one is easily her best.

You know if you cut the Odo story to like 15 minutes and lose everything else I think we'd have something here.... the show has peaked, but it also hasn't. You can make a case for any season from here on out

Oh my god there's still ten minutes left

Roulette is 48 - 48 - 2 never forget 0 and 00 which are neither red or black.

The nurse was played by Patricia Tallman. She was both actor and stunt performer. Whenever you see her on ST, expect her to get tossed around. (examples--TNG Power Play, security officer, shot in Ten Forward; DS9 Way of the Warrior, console blew up in her face)

It's funny, Lwaxana and Odo always end up sitting on the floor.

Episode was way better than I remembered. I think I mentally checked out when Momma Troi showed up on DS9 because most of her TNG episodes were pretty cringeworthy. But this is a solid performance between her and Odo. It honestly saves what could have been a token subplot (like really? I know Startrek is famous for the 'Planet of Hats' approach where the aliens get defined by a single trait, but like....space misogynists were already a thing with the Ferengi, and more interested than these guys). But as paper thin a means to an end as it clearly was it got us to the character stuff with Odo and Lawaxanna and those moments are all golden. The Jake plot was forgettable and as noted takes a weird back seat to the wedding despite the title. But it isn't nearly as bad as I recalled. I think if anything it does what it wants to do a little too well. There is a clear predatory undertone to what's happening between Jake and the thought vampire. The 'muse' herself is a fairly one note villain, but she plays that one note fairly well (doesn't save the overall plot but it raises it up from being completely lackluster, just like the Odo/Troi performances). But Jake's age has some uncomfortable implications especially here in the post-Epstein age so I understand being put off by it. Beyond that my biggest gripe is the writers getting a little too Gary Stew with Jake when it comes to talking about their own pastime through him.

The Odo/Lwaxana story has some nice character scenes, but plot-wise it feels kind of hacky and sitcomy to me. I mean, "We have to pretend we're really in love and getting married" is a very corny and silly idea.

"You feel where my thumbs are?" is my new favorite Star Trek line. It should be in every episode from now on. I remember just hating this episode, so I was really surprised on this rewatch. The Odo-Lwaxana stuff is kind of magnificent. She breaks down his walls despite his best attempts to keep them up — which is what their scenes together did to me. I think that was supposed to be the B plot, but I agree that it had the weight of the A plot, especially compared to the silliness-that-became-creepiness of the Jake/Onaya stuff — though I will say that Jake's penmanship becoming progressively more shitty as Onaya sucked his brain energy out was low-key terrifying. Bonus point for that, I guess. I still would rather have seen Lwaxana and Odo all episode.

Early DS9 was never as bad as early TNG, sorry guys. I think you guys need to go back and watch TNG season 1 again.

I'd honestly forgotten both of these plots were in the same episode. I remembered an excellent Lwaxana/Odo episode and a shithouse Jake gets preyed upon by an older woman episode and I'd completely forgotten they were the same one

DS9 sex scoreboard A tough call for Jake. The sex score board Jadzia 5 Quark 5 Bashir 4 Sisko 3 Kira 3 Morn 3 Worf 2 Jake 2 Chief 1 Odo 1 Keiko 1 GUEST: Lwaxana 5 +1 new DETAILS: First Lwaxana got a score. ( she is pregnant). Now the really tough call. First does Jake get a “Sub Rosa” plus 1. We decide no but feel free to change our mind. Just give reason in the replies. Next though does Jake lose one. The Muse asked him had he ever been alone in a woman’s quarters. IF he had said that he hadn’t we would have to take one away BUT he did not say it. So we decide Jake gets no +1 NOR does he get a -1.

Mr Holmm said thank you for the drinks in the first TNG episode he appeared in. He never spoke again. He did in the novel Imzadi, but I dont think that counts.

I don't think I can put myself through the pain of watching you two put yourselves through the pain of watching this episode.

You know, this episode isn't nearly as bad as I remembered it being. The Lwaxana/Odo plot is gold and really hits at the odd but touching (and strong) relationship the two characters have. The Jake plot is okay. I feel like Meg Foster was kind of wasted in a one-of here, but it had its creepy moments and had a bit of a TOS feel. I'd give the episode as a whole a low B, but it's really an A for the Lwaxana/Odo plot and a C+ for the Jake plot.

Not complaining per se, but was that the shortest TA intro ever….

So I don’t hate this as much as I could, the Luaxana Odo stuff is good, but the fact I always forget where it is in the series is a sign….

Some people really hate this one, but I still stand by Accession being the worst of the season. This one is one half of a great episode with a creepy story about Jake being molested by a predator grafted on to it

Glad there are more Lwaxana/Odo appreciators than I had realized.

Love your reactions, don't like this episode. Love luxwana though. Also completely agree with your discussion at the end.

I'm going to skip the episode and just watch the reaction review on this one.

I like the Odo/Lwaxana content. I rather think they make a good match for each other even if only as friends. The Jake/Muse story is a massive waste of time. It seemed like they wanted to build off of Mirror Jennifer's death in the previous episode when he talked about the loss of his mother as an inspiration and then it just never went anywhere. One of the things I like about DS9 is that even in the worst episodes, you can usually find at least one good scene or character moment.

„The notion of this exotic, beautiful, older woman who comes to you and gets excited by watching you write is like the most ridiculous idea! Only a writer would come up with that. Think of it. You're sitting there writing and she's just entranced. We watched that scene in dailies and we thought, are we insane? What are we doing? How did we get here?" - Ronald D. Moore

I hate this one. My least favorite of DS9. I usually skip it.

I hate this episode. On the plus side, its one of only three episodes total in all of Trek I do hate (Code of Honor and another that is upcoming in future). Will rewatch anyway. Because if you end up not hating it I need to understand why. It might make me not hate it so much. Won't hold my breath though.

I think the father of Troi's child may have played the Klingon who "lost the key" to Garek's chains in the mirror universe's last episode. (Didn't look at names or verify)

Was the writing credit the first time Majel Barrett was credited with the “-Roddenberry” full name?

Being sandwiched between two S-teir episodes of Voyager does this episode no favors. And it needs all the favors it can get.

Josh burner account exposed! As a young teenager watching TNG, I could not stand Lwaxana. I dreaded her TNG episodes. But over the years, I’ve come to appreciate her.

I stand by the shopping cart test. If someone doesn't put it back, take those 20 extra steps to make their local world just a little better, I cannot believe they have innate capacity to empathize with others. Solipsism. Bringing it back doesn't automatically mean you're a saint, but at least you pass the first basic hurdle.

I feel like Josh put this up to get the incoming episode negativity out of the way? Maybe? 🤔

Stop, stop! I'm drowning in new content! :)

In my opinion, this is one of the lowest points of the entire series as far as I'm concerned. So I adore DS9, but even I must say that this episode is ABSOLUTE garbage and it's absolutely in my bottom 5 of the entire franchise. The Muse character in Dogma was more interesting than....this. As for Mrs Troi? No. Just no. This is her worst appearance up to this point, and her appearances on here OR TNG were never my favorite. (aside from Dark Page) And there's no "so bad it's good" here. It's all just boring trash. I know I sound angry, lol, but DS9 is SO much better than this. *I* expect better than this from this show. E- 🔥 🗑️ 🔥 Edit: Voyager just did it with Innocence, so I will repeat myself: When something completely and UTTETLY bores me in such a way where I care nothing about what is going on with ANY character, there is no redeeming quality at all. I cannot give it anything other than an E. And this gets an E- because while I would expect this shit over on Voyager, it's a fucking sin on DS9 which I hold to a much higher standard of quality and entertainment.

Odo: I need you to cater my wedding tonight. Qaurk: wait a minute is this your way of inviting me? Odo: absolutely not.

Thank you, next.