UNCUT - Deadlock (VOY S2E21) | Star Trek Journey 406
Comments (130)
I love this one, but I do have one big major error in the episode, which the writers made a big mistake., unless I am mistaken. It is at the end. Doctor: "Be the way Ensign, this other doctor did he have a name?" Kim: "I really didn't have time to ask" Why would Kim not know if the other doctor have a name? Ensign Kim belonged to that Voyager, so he did have time right? or am I mistaken ?
no you're 100% right. But he wouldn't know the doc's name is Shmullus... 😜
It's reactions like this one that keep me coming back for more. This was such a fun one!
My only criticism is that the doctor is waving an instrument at Neelix’s cheek while the baby is dying. They could have given him something more serious that would genuinely take priority over the baby.
This episode was the start of the reset button. You almost needed this to have never happened because to believe the outcome is so silly
So did they kill the duplicate Harry Kim or the real one
YES
As for leaving Tom in the room with the console, he did bring a gadget and the way she said "It's good to have one's suspicions verified" made me think they were also testing to see if he was legit?
I’m going to be an outlier. The episode was fine. But it didn’t grab me. It was technically good. But though it was similar to TOS, It didn’t have the spark TOS had (from perfect character synergy). I love Janeway and I do love how this showed us more of her personality and underscored why she’s a great captain. And again, I get why this is the favorite episode for so many. For some reason, it just didn’t click for me on an emotional level.
I had no idea this episode was this early on, lets go
Usually Voyager hater here. Love this episode. S tier for Voyager. :) Love the flip that the wounded ship survives. Completely subverts expectations. Love that both ships are equally Voyager. They do a great job of not making one the "main" ship. My only complaint would be what Scarpad's Domain posted right before me . . . I don't mind that Voyager is episodic, but how does this ship repair itself?
Janeway: "Mr. Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job." Kim: "I don't think you understand, I'm severely traumatized and really don't know how to process---" EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS RICK BERMAN MICHAEL PILLER JERI TAYLOR
Underappreciated comment lol
Did anyone catch what the big laugh 7 minutes in was?
Was it when they said Fred Durst? if so I think that's a reference to a singer.
This episode is good, but still drives me crazy in term of established Trek logic. The surviving Voyager was blown to crap, and just.. everything is fine next episode. I know this doesn't bother people who like episodic tv's reset button, but the whole premise of Voyager and the reality of that situation didn't seem to matter to the showrunners.
I never like the solution since it leaves a crippled ship that no way they could fix and look perfect the next week, just dumb
Birthright Citizenship - Hmmmm Did that Jem'Hadar child born on DS9 received birthright citizenship to the Federation? Can he just walk around on Earth doing whatever? What IS the 'utopian' view on this?
Good episodes like this remind me of all my favorite Star Trek episodes. The premise alone is kinda... formulaic, but the best episodes are often made up by getting the details just right, and this one gets the details VERY right. Think of The Wounded. Imagine it without the reveal at the end that Picard understood he was right about the shipments, it would have been significantly worse and overly simple. It wasn't that he was wrong it was that he couldn't get out of war mode. "if he could not find a role for himself in peace, we can pity him, but we shall not dismiss him" In this episode: - We got tons of worldbuilding, like how and why you don't want to transport babies, and it wasn't a throwaway line it became a plot thread in the episode. - Imagine if it was the damaged ship that got invaded by Vidiians, the episode wouldn't have had the rollercoaster... - Imagine how much worse it would be if the two Janeways were 100% cooperative. - Harry Kim fighting like a proper starfleet officer. - Kes' trauma, just because you wake up in the good Voyager doesn't mean you didn't just go through some horrible, stressful stuff. - The chirality between matter and antimatter & how the two voyagers are attached in space by their antimatter supply. - How about: the "good" voyager, we pick up right in the middle of their own episode, their own mystery of the unconscious Kes clone and the damaged conduit. - Ensign Wildman helping Neelix in the beginning to ease you into the episode... - It's not even a convenience why they hit this particular anomaly: They intentionally chose to take a risk, hiding in the plasma drift in order to avoid the Vidiians, which backfired spectacularly. I have 2 real complaints: - You mentioned one: Tuvok losing the fight in the corridor IMMEDIATELY? Meanwhile Kim gets to be an action hero? - The explanation of "Atomic balance" of the two crews thing keeping them from evacuating to the good ship? Hello? Just strap some of those things to some debris or something to balance it out. At least there IS an explanation Another scifi series had a marginally more plausible sounding explanation for this scenario, and that explanation sucked too It might have made more sense is even a single person would have been a problem, and it was say, transporter pattern based or something. So they had to transport dead Harry and baby wildman to the "losing" ship. Harry didn't need to get sucked out into space. Or be bold and just keep multiple copies of some of the crew. Have some fun with it for a few episodes. I know of at least one scifi that did that for something like a whole season. No spoilers in case someone who reads this ends up watching one of those series.
First the Chief died on DS9 and now Harry Kim died on Voyager, R.I.P Harry Kim.
People always do the "That's not the real Kim, and that's not the real chief" but as a reminder there is literally nothing that says it's not: "Everybody but Kim is not the real version" and "Everybody but O'Brien is not the real version". Whispers starts while focusing on not real chief, there's nothing saying this episode doesn't start while focusing on not real voyager. If you are a Kim stan, say prime voyager is the one that blew up in this episode and prime Kim is the only one who's still alive.
Best reaction ending!
With Josh's rant about how their tastes have changed throughout the Trek journey; I picture Josh being a Pokemon who has just evolved into his next phase of Star Trek fan. :)
Alex about O'brien: "How can he be asleep right now". Well, becuase he's a union man. Lol! Really, the way I think about the sci-fi stuff in this episode is exactly like Second Chances. Riker got instantly duplicated by the transporter beam. Pretend that happens, but to the entire ship and crew....also, they're out of phase with each other or whatever. Ya, I easily called this one an S-Tier. I figured you'd like it, but I didn't know you'd LOVE it. Glad you do!
This episode never stuck out to me as a great episode, but after seeing TA’s reaction, I like it more. Thanks TA!
For me, Kes was added to the cast to fulfil the roles of Chapel, Troi and Guinan.
Kes is difficult. She can't really fulfil a Troi role because she's only 3, why the fuck would I take life advice from a 3 year old? I do think they fully get a solid handle on who she is after her big episodes next season though. In the case of Chakotay/Harry (and debatably Tom) I'm not sure we ever get a solid direction.
You're right. Top tier star trek, probably best Voyager episode up to this point. Also, day 1 of me trying to convince you to watch the Orville after Enterprise instead of Discovery. Orville is more star trek than anything that came after Enterprise.
We are going to watch Orville in release order as if it is Star Trek
Okay, but also, Janeway's eyeline with her duplicate is way off, right?
A clarification on what people mean when complaining about "the reset button." It's not that the events of the episode never happened, though that CAN be an example of one, but more that everything returns back to normal and there are no consequences for the events of an episode character-wise or narratively. Do you think Harry will bring up being the only adult survivor from his ship? Will it affect him or give him survivor guilt? With Janeway telling him "Weird is part of the job," the answer is likely: no it won't. So it's an event with no consequences. Or Voyager getting nearly destroyed this episode, to the point they have to choose between life support or other systems. That's a great set up for at least an episode about needing repairs and the hard choices survival might require in a hostile environment, but no, by the end of the episode the ship is more-or-less fixed, with no talk about how they managed to get the resources to fix multiple hull breaches, repair the corridors, patch up systems... in TNG and DS9 that's fine, because those series have access to Starfleet, but the whole premise of the show is that Voyager DOESN'T have Starfleet to save their ass. No nearby friendly space stations or starbases. Voyager has to find those. So because of that premise, for as amazing as this episode is, the ending wrap up scenes hurt it by heavily implying that all that great TV we just spent 42 minutes watching, doesn't matter. The characters dust themselves off and move on, when the potential for a carry over of events into the next episode or two was quite high, but ultimately ignored. That's where frusteration with the reset button comes from - that lack of consequences, and it robs the episodes of significance to the series at large.
I understand the criticism of this not having sufficient impact on the upcoming episode relative to how serious the events are. However, I wouldn’t actually call this a reset. It happened, and it’s the future writers’ obligation to make it have a lingering impact, which they could actually do. At least here we can speculate about how the crew are coping, since everyone went through it and remembered it, even if it’s never explicitly addressed. The true reset episodes are the time travel/parallel universe ones where they somehow revert our ship and crew to a state in which the events don’t actually happen, and there’s nothing for a future writer to even consider.
I wouldn’t exactly call this à fun fact but John DeLance was student at and witnessed the Kent State massacre personally. He actually met with Richard Nixon’s chief of staff after it happened.
Dang. That's why the name kept ringing a bell...
Its so strange that nobody cared the Harry they knew died, and the show just sweeps it under the rug.
Yeah the final scene is a weak point of the episode for me.
The sound problems are back again, fyi.
They never left
Did they have a counselor who was killed?
No. I believe Janeway mentions in one episode the ship never had a counsellor.
First time seeing this episode. For me cause and effect is still better but I'm sure that mostly has to do with nostalgia bias. I was a kid when I saw that and my emotional template for how I felt about it was "new and shiny kids eyes". If I had seen both episodes with the same eyes I may have picked this episode as my favorite.
Not Josh thinking a university in the 90s was experimenting on subspace fields and antimatter T_T
Chakotay: "My father had a saying: 'Home is whereever you happen to be."' Yes Chakotay, obviously your father was a big believer in that, which is why he died defending his home from Cardassians, instead of leaving when the Federation offered him a new home.
Haha my exact thoughts T_T
the thing that interested me always the much is ... do they still have a burial for the baby ? i mean they DO have a dead baby body it should honestly be put on ice for whenever this child is ill, BOY do you have a perfect fitting replacement part
Excellent question! Regarding the organ donation, though, the corpse isn’t undergoing growth, so they can’t use those parts once the baby grows beyond a certain size. Can you imagine a five year old trying to use that kidney?
Imagine if the damaged Voyager had sacrificed itself to save the other Voyager, only for the surviving Voyager to be wiped out by the Vidiians Minutes later. That would've been the ultimate "Bad Ending."
Can you imagine the furor if that had been a finale?
The obvious question is which Voyager survived? The original or the duplicate?
My thought is that the original is the one the Vidiians could detect and latch on to, so the one that survived is the duplicate.
you had to look up whether or not an experiment to duplicate Matter, that failed to duplicate anitmatter was real? seriously?
You know that feeling you get when you're at a great party and then the police show up...
SHOCKS: the Voyager that survives is the one that is almost destroyed, the lingering questions that remain, and then there are the Vidiians (the most horrific of Star Trek enemies, IMO)... totally *WOW* episode that still shocks to this day.
The grisliness of the Vidiians is extra horrific here. Just the Vidiian casually mentioning removing sweet Kes's pelvic ridge, I mean !!!
When I first saw this.... during the show's original run... I loved the reversal of which version of Voyager was going to be annihilated. Until the end... every indication was that the version of the ship on the verge of destruction... would be the one to explode. Guess again.
The Kim is dead. Long live the Kim. O7
I love this episode. Easily a Top 5 Voyager episode for me. Janeway vs. Janeway ALWAYS delivers.
One of my favourite 3 episodes of Voyager, and obviously my favourite of this Season. Also my second S in a row.
Fantastic, fun reaction. Fantastic, fun episode. One of Voyager's bests.
One of my all time favourite Trek episodes. It is my favourite "disaster" style episode. Only small gripe is how glib Harry is at the end about his ordeal. Other gripe of course is the utterly pristine ship next episode and yes that is and will always be an issue to me
Yeah, and Torres says they’re “hemorrhaging antimatter” such that it will all be gone in less than an hour, yet there absolutely no ramifications….
Let's gooo! This is in many ways an ensemble, action episode, but it's also a Janeway episode. you can summarize Janeway's character in just four quotes from the ep: "I've been making a blanket for her." "When I was twelve years old, I walked home in a thunderstorm over seven kilometres because I lost a tennis match." "I'd sacrifice my ship so that yours could survive." "We're Starfleet officers. 'Weird' is part of the job."
First time I've paid for early access to a Voyager episode. Not seen this one in years, but im pretty sure I liked it back in the day
I watched this episode when it first aired. I loved Voyager at that point anyway, but this episode blew me away. Great sci-fi story!
Deadlock is one of my all time favourite Star Trek episodes. Really left a mark on me seeing it back in the 90's and it holds up brilliantly.
Wow, never more pleased to be wrong. I hadn't seen this episode since my very first watch. I remembered it being very cheesy but this rewatch was great!
Deadlock really comes out of no where and just destroys the rhythm of the show (in a good way). Any feeling of being safe is stripped away and then they manage a reset button without it being a reset button
I was on the literal edge of my seat. This could have been a fucking movie.
Its funny how they said they don't expect Torres to have a character arc. They're going to feel pretty stupid after she gets the gender re-assignment surgery and marries Kes.
And then they have a baby that looks like Neelix which causes the soap opera arc in season 11
I guess the crew should have expected Ensign Wildman to be in labour for a long time. She had been pregnant for almost two seasons.
You know what this episode is really missing? B'Elanna seeing a ghost image of Shower Man walking through engineering in a towel. Would have really brought the whole thing together. But seriously, this is such a GOATed episode, and one of the best reactions in months. This one is likely on most people's top 10 lists, if not top 5, and no small number likely name it their #1 of Voyager. Cause and Effect is great, but I think Brannon outdid himself here. And of course, David did a phenomenal job keeping that constant frantic energy throughout. The episode barely even lets you breath. Also I noticed a few shots on the second Voyager shortly after the reveal were at a bit of an angle, which I believe was a trick used in one of the DS9 mirror universe eps, probably Crossover. As for Harry's death not being acknowledged, I get it, they're starfleet and the crisis is ongoing, so they do their jobs. If I were going to include something that would only take a few seconds, then when they're in Engineering and Janeway says "welcome to the new bridge", you could have Paris say "I'm going to find a free console to transfer helm controls to. Harry could you give me a hand.......". Just have Tom instinctively ask him for help and catch himself halfway through, then just show a shot of Janeway and Torres with a pained look that says that they get it. That would have been enough. I gotta say though, I LOVE that they gave Harry a few minutes of being an absolute badass. This isn't a Kim episode, and he hasn't been given a lot, but rolling under that phaser beam was peak. And while I agree it's not great for the chief of security to be taken down so easily, I do love the running phaser fight that followed. How the hell did the vidiians know what a Vulcan is though? Klingons and humans make sense given Faces, and Tuvok was scanned in Phage by the one vidiian, but I see no reason they would volunteer information on federation species to those guys. The Ktarians also seem to have been given the Trill treatment. Here they sound reptilian. Scaled and cranial horns. A far cry from The Game's butthead aliens. Gotta say though, Nancy Hower did an excellent job portraying the sudden pain of her uterus being stabbed from the inside. Not sure what else to say. I love this episode. If the whiteboards were still around it would definitely deserve a "Voyager has huge balls". Also Janeway casually welcoming the Vidiians to the bridge seconds before the ship blew up definitely had shades of "GET OUT OF THERE!!" from Search for Spock.
FYI - Brannon Braga went to Kent State
I always felt this was a fantastic episode. Spent the next good long while wondering if that was really Harry or not. LOL
Enjoyed this reaction a lot. Great discussion!
"Someone get Worf!" Best laugh I have had all week! That poor man.
Even on the other side of the galaxy he can't escape it
The one flaw in this episode for me: having to watch a birth scene! Josh, I think you're spot on in analyzing your reaction to TNG post-"The Bonding". I wonder if episodes like "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds" would have hit harder for you if they'd come before "The Bonding" instead of after it.
I wonder if part of it is also with DS9 delivering a lot of those emotionally impactful eps like The Visitor, Heart of Stone, etc.. and even getting a couple on Voyager, if there's a "have your cake and eat it too" factor at play? They can appreciate the whacky scifi plots because they're not deprived of the emotionally heavy eps like when it was just TNG.
Great reaction! I love this episode a lot. I think it was actually one of the first Voyager episodes I ever watched. I remember not really knowing who the characters were but being completely drawn in by the story.
Great episode, though the most dramatic moment by far is the statement "this is a top 10 episode of Star Trek for me". The last time my face looked that surprised was during my last prostate examination, and that was equally unpleasant. A+
Do you find the Vidians reminding you of the Reavers from Firefly, because they do for me.
The portrayal of the reavers was pure terror, great stuff
It would had been an awkward moment if the Doctor walked in on his girlfriend stealing organs.
Harry Kim, a man who dies for a living.
1) Thanks for the compliment about the hair 💁♂️ 2) So grateful for playing my video. I actually think it’s beautiful that we can both clearly love Star Trek and come to two different places on one episode and then come together to love another. I never understood people who get butthurt about you being honest to your own opinion about an episode. If you’re not willing to be honest about something, I don’t think you REALLY love it. 3) I’m in San Diego. I love going out on beach walks for lunch 🏖️ Anyway, so glad you guys like it, too. Deadlock is just so good.
JANEWAY 2: But there is something else I can do for you. I'm going to send Harry Kim through the rift with Ensign Wildman's baby. Somehow, it seems only fair. JANEWAY : Gee, thanks. I could always use another Tuvok or Torres, but sure, send me the most useless members of your crew. JANEWAY 2: I don't appreciate that kind of ingratitude, even coming from myself. Besides, we both know they're not the MOST useless people I could send(side eyes Chakotay)
Also Garret Wang's "But Captain", flattest delivery ever.
This is one of my most re-watched episodes of Star Trek. Absolutely love it every time. S+
You know, if there was any time to set those hand phasers to disintegrate, it's when flesh-stealing ghouls board your starship...
How many holes in hulls from misses though lol
56:39 Fred D =D
This episode is what Voyager is all about. Looks like it's pretty much universally liked by everyone, which is no easy feat! Appreciated the Fred Durst sound effect in the discussion...
What was that sound? I couldn't place it.
Fun episode, but zero tension because we know Voyager is too scared to do anything that has lasting effects. They kind of shoe horned in the Vidian take over crap , guess they didn't have enough confidence in the primary story being enough. This story is basically a recycle of TNG's clone Riker on a bigger scale, except they didn't have the guts to keep both around. Lol I love that Paris was more concerned Janeway had a minor head bruise than the fact Kim just died. Solid B episode.
Shoe horned the Vidian take over? The beginning of the episode starts with them seeking cover from the Vidians. Also there were 2 significant things in this episode that carry to the very end of the series. Lastly, while I agree, an extra scene with them discussing Harry would be nice... but to be fair, there were hull breaches in multiple places, 30 people in sickbay, and they were looking at escape pods in the next 30 minutes. There isn't a lot of time to grieve.
2 Kes’s one for Tom and one for Neelix. Seems a little ruthless and shortsighted. Kim didn’t bother to save anyone else. They said at least five people could go. He could’ve grabbed other Kes brought a back up copy of the doctor.
They could’ve successfully merged the two ships. I imagine Kim would just be back as well as the baby…?
Occasionally you get an episode that isn't just an S - its truly legendary. Deadlock is one such episode.
Pro tip for judging how bad things are getting aboard Voyager in a situation: when Janeway's hair gets messed up, that means shit just got real.
You know….it’s possible I saw Cause and Effect as a child but it was an episode I didn’t remember if so, so I saw this first, and when I saw Cause and Effect I didn’t see them as similar
One thing you didn't mention that I love about this episode is the misdirect with which Voyager would make it. My first time watching, the first 15 minutes is just total hell. Baby dies, Harry dies, don't have the bridge, Sickbay overflowing. Then it cuts to the pristine Voyager and I thought... Oh this is obviously the ship that makes it. I was so happy to be wrong!
Absolutely, big cojones!
Congratulations on The Doctor becoming a father! Josh, where would this compare to "Remember Me" for you? I fully agree that the direction here elevates it tremendously, David brought in so much energy behind the camera, and how the actors were urged to perform. Life and Death. This episode always makes me ponder on the real nature of self-awareness. The Harry Kim that crosses over and assumes the "original's" place, his atoms are all identical, but is it the same "entity" looking through those eyes? Well, it can't be, can it? That prime "entity" is looking at eternal darkness. It's tricky to even properly verbalize what I mean.
If Deadlock was a TNG episode 1. Lessons 2. Lower Decks 3. The Offspring 4. DEADLOCK 5. Remember Me 6. I, Borg 7. Second Chances
Great discussion. Very joyful, which is the same feeling rewatching this gave me.
Kes just calmly talking to herself
Janeway's command code to initiate self destruct is JANEWAY PI 1-1-0. So not only did you get to have your cake and got to eat it, you earned slice of Janeway pi.
Poor Chakotay. He gets left out of the spy hunt and Janeway doesn't even need him to agree to blow up the ship.
"Ensign Kim, the good news is you survived. The bad news is that you are technically the newest member of the crew and go to the bottom of the pile for promotions."
The show is 7 seasons, we're only in season 2, plenty of time for that promotion to come.
Truly this is the stuff that Voyager does best
Exactly. Although I love DS9 more, VOY is absolutely my go to when I want a fucking cool as hell sci-fi concept executed well. Too many to mention in upcoming seasons.
The Kent State experiments Janeway was referencing talks about subspace, so it would be fictional and probably some time in the recent past to when Voyager takes place. Also, fun facts: "Q actor John de Lancie is an alumnus of Kent State University. Writer and producer Brannon Braga studied Theater Arts and Filmmaking at Kent State University."
From my lay understanding of quantum physics there are some theories that electrons can occupy multiple points in spacetime at the same time (relative to our perception). Not quite the same thing, but I think its alluded to that concept and taken to a sci-fi level.
What a fucking knockout of an episode. Voyager swings and hits. Great sci-fi plot, perfect pacing, everything is easy to follow. Fantastic direction. Two Janeways! The reset button makes sense in context and lets them take absolutely wild risks. Given how you reacted to Five-Hours-in-the-Future O’Brien, I hope you guys had a therapist on hand after this one.
I think I like this slightly more than Cause and Effect, though in general I prefer when the sci-fi threat of the week is more of a mindscrew (like Clues, Schisms, or Night Terrors) rather than a threat to the ship, but I can see why both are so beloved. They're kinda the most standard "Star Trek" you can get (which is compliment because Star Trek is typically good). Only change I'd make is swap the hallway scenes of Tuvok and Tom jobbing to the Vidiians with a brief scene showing some grieving for poor Harry. Like a brief moment of silence and we cut to Tom's reaction.
jobbing to the Vidiians 😂
I really loved this one when it aired and it was a great re-watch with you guys
I know it doesn’t change the feelings about small talk before asking for help, but here Neelix is more trying to come up with reasons to make Samatha move around a bunch to try and induce labor.
I wonder if this episode had the longest intro ever. I have to admit your speculation on a fetal transport before it happened was amusing. I chuckled a little.
(Looks it up.) Seems like, to this point, this is second longest behind The Nth Degree (which was 7:20). Deadlock is 7:02.
There is a lot of people running and disappearing in hallways of voyager.
welp, you guys made a trailer for it, I might as well stay up late to watch this!
So, have you guys given up on DS9?? The last few episodes you've watched are all Voyager. (kidding)
A really dark period I guess for DS9 fans. I don't know how the networks worked back then, or if the two shows were on the same channel? I would assume so. Looking at the air dates, we shoule be back soon!
Serious contender for Voyager’s best episode, period. Also got to be the widest quality gulf between the first and second half of any Trek season. Lots of solid/great episodes in this back half.
Absolutely. When we get to the end of the series and I can re-evaluate my top favorites, this episode could be a contender for my #1. It’s definitely in my Top 5 now.
"If you need my help, don't be nice or polite, just ask." - Alex, basically
Ooooh, this one.