UNCUT - Investigations (VOY S2E20) | Star Trek Journey 405
Comments (81)
This one hits differently on a second watch in the reactions of Paris, Janeway, and Tuvok to what Neelix is doing before the secret mission is revealed. For instance Paris's reactions when Neelix is trying to talk him into staying, knowing that he may really not come back from the mission.
I liked the episode a lot, and to include Neelix here was surpisingly a very good decision. BUT, yes, but... The hell? So close to the seasion end, they conclude this storyline instead of keeping Tom Paris 3 Episodes working with them, until they heave the proof? ... okay, maybe because it was a 90s network show... Still liked it a lot
This whole Paris subplot was such weak sauce
It was a serviceable episode. But...I dunno, I just don't care. I don't really care about these characters up to this point. Maybe the Doctor. His last episode kinda showed he could be endearing. But if anything happened to any other character, I feel I'd just shrug and say, "Gee, that was too bad."
you know i always assumed voice passwords had to be used in officer voice as part of security
The gag at the end where Neelix apologizes to the doctor for running out of time is reminiscent of the long running Jimmy Kimmel gag " Apologies to Matt Damon, We Ran Out of Time" it just goes to show some things in pop culture enter the zeitgeist, the voyager gag came first. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsczUFjhFWE
All I think about the Doctor getting bumped is how Jimmy Kimmel always bumps Matt Damon. This episode was actually better than I remember. I actually like Hogan too.
Neelix continues to be a very divisive character. Plenty of people enjoy him, lots of people find him annoying, and there are some people who despise him. Although some of it may come from the character choices in Mr. Phillips’ portrayal, I think most of it is in the writing. Furthermore, I think the divide really comes down to personal experience, especially introvert versus extrovert or neurotypical versus neurodivergent. I don’t hate Neelix; the thing I hate is that the writers don’t seem to understand how obnoxious his baseline behavior is. Fully removing the jealousy arc, he’s still someone who imposes his presence when it’s not wanted and won’t take “no” for an answer. He doesn’t respect boundaries. He wants to please people but isn’t good at taking feedback when he gets it. Instead of just feeding people their comfort foods, he wants to improve on them, which is a point of comedy for the show but huge problem in real life for some people who have limited “safe foods” and have had people do this to them their whole lives. He makes being the Morale Officer into his identity, spreading toxic positivity to people who shouldn’t have to alter their behavior just to please him. He doesn’t seem to acknowledge that it’s ok to be introspective, upset, or withdrawn and makes it his personal mission to change people instead of leaving them alone. Nowadays it’s widely acknowledged that walking up to a woman and telling her to smile will likely infuriate her, but Neelix never got the memo. In short, I think Neelix haters are people who have suffered under this behavior in real life and get a bit triggered when they see it on screen over and over every week. This is the first and only time I will go on a Neelix rant, but I thought it was relevant to the dialogue in the comments section.
Neelix is the least of Voyagers problem
This episode kicks ass and so do the seeds leading up to it. Top tier for a Season 2 episode. We’re totally on the same page here and you know I won’t tell a lie if I don’t agree with you.
100% agree that if this story had played out in DS9 it would be praised as groundbreaking, brilliant and excellent storytelling.
If we had told you Martha Hackett was pregnant in real life, which indeed she was, that would have basically spoiled for you that she was coming back. And not just for 1 episode, but probably multiple episodes.
I hate Neelix But I love -this- Neelix
This was fresh for me I probably never saw it but if i did i don't remember (i never got into voyager during it's air time). Good twist, I liked it. Also I thought Neelix did pretty well investigating all in all. 🤷♂️
props to whichever Crackerjack Transporter chief was on duty that day to get Paris off that shuttle.
A quick Fun Fact for Josh and Alex: Roxanne Dawson directed The Long Con!
Yes, Martha Hackett WAS pregnant this season, with a Disney heir no less. However, when she called to inform them she was pregnant, I think they said, "great, we just wrote that into an episode."
DeathbySnuSnu? Sounds like a "Druckershop24.de" type of deal. (Any German here who knows what i mean?) But off course i know futurama and the reference.
Neelix was the first Tik Toker to kill someone. Star Trek was ahead of its time.
This episode is not awful by itself, but it's such a waste of effort. All those painstakingly crafted Paris B-stories.... aaaand he is captured (and compromised) literally 2 minutes after leaving the ship. I wanted a multi-episode undercover Paris arc.
The science officer Kim is talking to at 02:44/02:46 mark is then-Prince Abdullah bin al-Hussein of Jordan (now King Abdullah II). He was (and still is) a big Star Trek fan. His U.S. advisor arranged it as a surprise while he was visiting the U.S. He wasn't in SAG (Screen Actors Guild), so he couldn't speak on camera. He reportedly loved the experience, threw a party for the cast/crew afterward, and later invited some actors (like Ethan Phillips/Neelix and Robert Picardo/The Doctor) to visit Jordan.
Since this story with Tom began, i think where he was caught gambling and you two criticised it saying that story was pointless, I've been waiting for you to get to this one.
As much as i generally dislike Neelix, this is my favourite Neelix episode, and the first S i've given for Voyager since State Of Flux.
Good payoff for the ongoing B Plot. A Tier.
I'm fairly surprised at the amount of negative reactions to this one. Yeah this is far from peak Voyager, and probably doesn't quite crack A tier for me, but it's a solid B+. I suspected you both might appreciate being bamboozled by the culmination of the Paris/Jonas arcs, and I wasn't disappointed. I think it's a solid payoff to the breadcrumbs dropped in previous eps. Regarding the Jonas arc, I don't think he really intended to wind up where he did, he just got in too deep. Initially he probably thought he could buy safe passage for Voyager by giving the Kazon information, and when he realized Seska was intent on taking Voyager, he just wanted to save his own neck. The guy was an idiot, especially charging Neelix like that with a perfectly placed plasma fire right below. I don't think Hogan was in on it. We never saw any involvement, and I never got any malicious vibes off of him. Yeah he wad that scene in Alliances where he was basically saying they should cut a deal, but I don't think he has it in him to do what Jonas did. As for the discussion about cameras being everywhere on the ship, aside from the fact that cameras would be a trivial expense in the 24th century, it would make more sense for Voyager to have more extensive coverage than the Enterprise D, given the latter has almost 10x the internal volume. However every scene of Jonas communicating with the Kazon was in his quarters IIRC. Obviously there would be serious privacy concerns if the senior staff could look in on what each crewman was doing in their own quarters, so I don't think this is a plot hole or lore breaking in any way. They went out of their way to explain how he kept his messages off the regular channels. Regarding Neelix, is he perhaps getting in the way of a few people and plans here, sure. Is his podcast rather shallow at first, yeah. However he's genuinely trying to help the ship and risks his life to stop a traitor. Plus seeing the 180 turn in his relationship to Tom since his horrible jealousy arc is a great direction for the character. If someone finds Neelix a bad or annoying character in this episode, they're choosing to judge him in a very surface level kind of way while ignoring all the real character growth going on under the surface. And finally I want to say that the reveal that Tom was acting all along isn't just a matter of him not devolving back into the misfit and malcontent we met in Caretaker. This isn't just getting him back to the baseline we knew before Meld. It elevates him significantly beyond that. Yes he's a great pilot, and Janeway offered him a chance to do what he's good at. But this is a mission that could not only easily have gotten him killed, but risked damaging the reputation he built with the Voyager crew. This episode shows that Tom is willing to go far above and beyond not only for Janeway who helped him turn his life around, but for the ship and crew that has become his home and family.
There is a big behind the scenes issue thats been going on this season. And thats the dueling opinion on how episodes should be formatted. And the push and pull on how much serialized material should be used in procedural television, as opposed to shows that are by nature serialized. When Piller left, Trek to work on UPN's Legend. He was faced with the reality that Trek's storytelling had not been keeping up with overall TV. The success of the massive ratings of TNG, and the really solid ratings of season 1 of Voyager (and DS9 success in the syndicated ratings) in relation to what UPN could manage. Shielded the writers to the reality of what TV has started to become. Shorter cut scenes, more drastic commercial breaks, and more heavy use of serialized material in what is a standalone style show. And yes DS9 has pushed the serialization far more, but the rest of the changes happening in TV, concerning the formatting of acts, has not. When Pillar came back, he pushed for those changes to happen on the show, versus Taylor who was feeling that Voyager should stay the same. Its interesting that this episode with Taylor as Teleplay is exceptionally influenced by the changes Piller wanted to heavily implement in Voyager,
I feel like Taylor was like, "nope, gonna wrap this s#!+ up."
Just so you know scheduling is not something anyone connected to the production have a say on. Nor are they provided a schedule in advance from the studio. On exceedingly rare occasions the studio might say we want this on such a date, it's exceptionally rare for TV at this time, let alone. for Trek.
I have to confess, when Tom immediately went to the control panel on the Kazon ship, I was thinking "Could his behavior all have been a ruse to get to this point and find out who the traitor was?". Still, it was a well done episode.
Loved the Doctor's little "I'm a doctor, not a..." with a little nod to Bones (without being so heavy-handed as crediting him by name.) I guess it shows his creators imbued him with more than McCoy's knowledge.
Nice conclusion to the story arc. Neelix can be annoying but he has consistently shown an ability to change his mind when presented with new facts.
OK, why does the Paris arc being a “fakeout” matter to me? A) Alex actually hits on my first point. Because it’s a fakeout, there’s not any real characterization of Paris going on, no insight we’re gaining. It’s not an actual character arc. It’s just a series of scenes Tom is play-acting in. A) I don’t think the running Paris subplots were particularly well executed or interesting as B stories in any of the previous episodes on first viewing. So if you removed them, you could have expanded the A story (like in Meld) or given us a different, better B story that was exploring one of the lesser served characters (Kes, Kim) in a genuine way. C) As a result, the only value I see that the running subplot has is to set up the surprise in Investigations, to work the viewer. But, IMO, this is such a mid episode, both on its own and as a conclusion to a multiepisode arc. So, for me, the entire arc is just ill-conceived, poorly executed, and lands with a thud. I do confess, though, if a similar arc had culminated in something spectacular like Deadlock, I might not have had the same complaints.
"IMO, this is such a mid episode" So your whole basis on why it sucks is a very vague "Episode is mid" This is exactly the type of nonsensical hate people come up with. The Character arc isn't "Tom being a dick" it is a continuation of his Character arc from Threshold, he is becoming closer and more protective of the Voyager and it's crew. He actually cares more and his appearing to not care and push everyone away as an act is actually him doing what he can to protect those he cares about. You are hung up on the fakeout as the Character arc, which it isn't and Investigations proves this in the final shot of Tom Paris on the show apologizing and opening up to the Voyager crew. This shows it is a deepening into his already developing arc. It's subtle story telling which works. As for this episode being mid, maybe just because you don't like Neelix? Which doesn't make sense because he is a brilliantly written character.
Glad you enjoyed this one. I really like it and I'm surprised at the amount of negativity in the takes. The reveal that Tom was faking it all along just makes me enjoy his character more and doesnt undo some of the development he got in Threshold. It also reinforces how much I love the scene at the end of Deadlock when he has that moment of hesitation before leaving Janeway on the bridge to go to the escape pod and he thanks her for all she's done. If Tom really had been so discontent with his life on Voyager, he may not have said anything so that moment seems a bit odd, but now we know that that moment was genuine and he really does appreciate how much she's helped him turn things around it just makes it so much better.
Even though I know the King of Jordan appears in this episode (before he was king) as an extra, it’s still weird seeing it now. It’s kind of like when the NASA astronaut, Dr Mae Jemison, appeared on TNG as a transporter room crew person.
It's so weird that Jake is a main character on DS9, when he gets less screen time than Nog even. I'd actually like to measure total minutes of screen time because I suspect we might even see more of Garak or Dukat than we do of Jake. Wynn even maybe. The writers so rarely seem to know what to do with him.
I remember the conclusion of this arc blowing my teenage mind, so I was curious to see if the work and the reveal would still get me. And they did! I'm impressed how well they drip-fed this for episodic '90s TV. I still don't like Neelix's character, but comparing his role here to the "Let's be creepily possessive of Kes" scenes from S1 is a night-and-day difference. And I love that Janeway and Tuvok were on this the whole time. I love that they're that smart and competent and professional. Leaving Chakotay out was questionable and I'd expect some Maquis justice after Paris's smug comments at the end, but that's a minor thing. My only real gripe is that they let Neelix spend so much time playing journalist and blundering into their carefully planned and controlled investigation. If I were Janeway, I would have shut that shit down after the first broadcast. But then it would be a five-minute episode, so.
RIP Michael Jonas, he died a hero. It was highly upsetting that Neelix didn't die this episode.
Star Trek characters are always shown as extremely competent, but one thing I love about Voyager is that the show often demonstrates the crew's competence by having them be ahead of the viewer - sometimes even ahead of the trope. There are many future examples, but in this case, I love that while the viewer is expecting that the crew would eventually find out about the spy, Janeway and Tuvok were ahead of the game, already knew about the spy, and were already running a plan to stop him.
"3 episode story arc for STV, amazing".. "62 episode story arc in DS9, meh" Ya crack me up. This episode is decent. Solid B. I enjoyed it.
Well, i mean STV is just one big story arc. We all know by the end what is going to happen. Its strictly a point a to point b show. One storyline, spoiled in episode one. Heh. But as you can see, i rate this a solid b. decent grade. My main issue with STV is a personal issue. I really just dont like most the characters. Chakotay is horrible, both in character and acting. Neelix is just not very good overall. Tom Paris is an atrocious actor. Ultra cheese. Kim is just there. Tuvak is ok. Janeway is good. The doctor is great. Just generally, half the cast is subpar. But even so, i still give this episode a B.
Hating Neelix reminds me of the bandwagon hatred of Nickelback, which is actually a decent band. Is he the best character in Trek? No. Does he have plenty of redeeming qualities and moments? Absolutely. This is a strong showing from him as the pioneer of vlogging. Sure, his deductive reasoning skills appear to be... slow at times, lol, but I can forgive that. Just have the Doc on already before he decides to sabotage the ship out of spite.
On the one hand, I think a lot of Neelix bashing is done more as a meme and not meant seriously, so I can laugh at it sometimes. And he is genuinely terrible at the start of S2 with the jealousy arc. OTOH, even though I rate Neelix lower than all but a couple of the Voyager mains, the character is harmless and often quite endearing, and he proves to be a real friend on many occasions. I honestly think he has one of the better character arcs on the show.
I really like this episode. I remember being really annoyed with Tom in the previous episodes because I thought they were just erasing all that previous character growth he'd had in the first season. By the end of this episode you realise how far he has come because Janeway and Tuvok trusted him with this super important mission.
I love this take - you're right. I'll add that going undercover like that was a big ask for Tom because on some level it must have been tough for him to have to pretend to "live down" to old expectations of him. Great to see him willing to do something like that for the ship.
Fun epoxied as I only remember the Paris lore goal when he was kidnapped by the Kayson.
I love how you can just tell when someone used speech to text😄
Great episode with many more to come!
The pride on Josh’s face when he realized that he got got.
So as you all know by now, because I have said it a hundred times, I saw season two first, I wasn’t as bothered by Tom being odd the last few episodes and liked this finale of the arc, but I was at home having pizza when I first watched these not having people watching me expecting me to talk about it. Season 2 is great there are only 3-4 episodes I truly dislike in this season, Resistance, one coming up, Tattoo and honorable mention to another coming up. Voyager is too cozy to truly dislike most episodes and some days I want cozy Trek. But don’t be fooled, because they are in the Delta quadrant there are many small elements of serilization. Sometimes better and sometimes not. Its episodic episodes but serilized characters for the most part.
I like Neelix, generally. I think some are awfully hard on him.
Too bad for Jonas that the Doctor didn’t get to do his segment on the hardness of the Talaxian jaw.
Perhaps in the future they might test it empirically with Tuvok as the one to perform the demonstration for the camera 😉
One of Voyager's best, love this.
Eddington is on DS9 so Colm Meaney can take a week or two off to do a movie
One of the worst episodes of the series. Reasons: Stupid plot, bad comedy, annoying lead character, and the Starfleet Senior Staff disrespecting Chakotay. The Tom and Neelix scene was good.
I agree Beltran was undermined at every level by the writing I can see why he hated this series
Sorry I'm new here and wondering why the posts don't seem to align with the calendar at all
The calendar is when the reactions will be available for Audience Members (the entry tier) They are posted for early access for the higher tiers, one day early or more, whenever I get them edited.
Marathon here this pops up right after i just get done doing the watch along with Dogma now this pops up,
It bodes well for the future of you watching Voyager that you rate this one so highly, it's fine, but nowhere one of the top episodes IMO! BTW guys, could it be too much screen time causing your lack of sleep? If you have the option, turn on night shift mode on your devices where possible to eliminate blue light, which causes havoc on your circadian rhythm. Or just avoid screens altogether for the few hours before bed. Difficult in your line of work, but better than causing issues with your health!
The foggy memory many of us suffer from is no doubt tied to lack of sleep
Oh, I didn't know Alex was aware of the character that's coming eventually. I wanted to see a raw reaction to their name in the opening credits. I guess it's pretty unavoidable when you look up an episode's IMDB score or open certain Trek merch. Promo material makes sure you know this is the show with that character.
If we are talking about the same character, she’s on the box.
So glad you both liked this one! I am probably in the minority, but I love this one. And, yes, Tom Paris IS my favorite on Voyager...so make of that what you will. It's still a GREAT pay off!
Tom rocks.
Payoff! Voyager does this well, having low-key linked B plots that cross the entire season.
Season isn’t over
Planting seeds of things episodes or seasons before is incredibly complex especially to do well
Neelix, four episodes from now: "Captain, I think the spy might have been Michael Jonas."
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hating Neelix is such a decades old boring trope. Yes, there are episodes where he is annoying. But this is not one of them.
I don’t criticize Neelix to be “cool” or whatever I do it because I can’t stand him. It’s genuine! I found him to be unbearable in this one.
And people hate Neelix, yet I actually find him one of the best Characters on Voyager.
Yes, similar to Colm being allowed to take absences to film overseas, Cirroc was allowed to take off for school. I believe the showrunners basically viewed him as a secondary character, but he still got the pay for opening credits in order to guarantee he stays on (since it wouldn't be uncommon for a young actor to completely change career paths and Star Trek does its best to avoid recasts). Basing this off a Trek podcast McNeill, Wang, Shimerman, and Farrell are currently doing.
Hogan was a Maquis, you can identify the Maquis crew members by the small plates in place of pips on their collar.
I’m curious if you think this justifies the first episode of Tom’s antics with the gambling on the Holdeck. It seemed like a waste of time then, so I’m wondering if you think there’s anything you think could’ve been done to where it wouldn’t have given you that impression. However, this is the first time this show has given this type of serialization that’s both subtle and specific at the same time that had the added caveat of keeping the audience in the dark, so I’m not sure how we can avoid how you guys felt in that episode.
For myself I didn't mind that BUT I do think it could have been integrated into the overall episode more smoothly? Like if it was more explicitly tied into the episode theme, maybe some kind of mention from Janeway when discussing punishment for Sudor. "Of course it's not as serious an offence, but Chakotay is concerned about some crew behavior that had been cropping up more lately. Gambling, rumors of a still being built...I should have put more time into considering these issues before now. " Something like that might have made the story feel more intentional.
Finally I can say it was all leading up to something. Now I know you watched it, I'll go watch to see what your reaction is. I loved this episode.
What a fine episode. At work (of course. When am I not?) But I will have more to say later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for all the TA content to catch up on today!
I was going to get a early night here in the UK, but oh boy, I gotta see this reaction.