UNCUT - Crossfire (DS9 S4E13) | Star Trek Journey 395
Apologies for the audio distortion. We are using new microphones and still figuring out the settings. Should be fixed next week.
Comments (101)
Major Kira has a type
what a BRUTAL episode!
Star Trek Imzadi is a great story and audiobook. Totally cannon telling of Riker and Troi's early relationship for me. Some of the other things are a little eh, but it does feature the Guardian from TOS, gotta love that. Gotta agree on the title on this episode. I couldn't even remember which one it was when I first saw it crop up in your feed. And I love this episode.
One of the worst feelings in my life was when a guy I had a secret crush on spent a weekend with a mutual friend, and then he came and said "oh, I have to tell you first, I have the most wonderful news..."
I was in highschool when I first saw this episode, I was actively living out the same scenario...it was rough
I think I might have the most uncomfortable high school date story ever. This episode reminds me of that feeling. 🤪
5:00 - adjutant is the word Alex was trying to word out.
Poor Odo https://youtu.be/iQeYLTEd2Ig
It's interesting how they sub out Eddington here and put Worf in his place, not just because it gives Dorn his pay check, but because they know the audience is more familiar with Worf as a top level 'Security guy' so him being competent and finding the assassin makes a better contrast with Odo's distraction than it would be if the Starfleet security was just the regular schmoe that the casual audience barely knows.
Generally in those days what was billed as 'mid season finales' weren't actually the exact middle of the season but the point at which shows took a break - usually for a holiday of some sort. Far more important was 'sweeps week', the big showcase week for advertisers. That's where to look out for the real big guns in these things. So don't always expect fireworks at the midpoint!
I wonder why Worf wasn’t included when the senior staff greeted Shakaar when he arrived on the station.
Everyone's already done a great job breaking down Odo's feelings and why he had his crash out after Worf made him feel useless, as well as Odo and Quark's frenemy dynamic at play, so I won't offer a lengthy and redundant analysis. I gotta say though, the perpetual "dies from cringe" expressions from you guys, especially Alex, really made this reaction. You truly expressed what we all feel watching this one. I said this on the discord but I'm leaving it here for posterity. This is the episode where Odo learns that you can't shapeshift your way out of the friend zone.
You probably already figured it out by now, but the word Shakaar uses is "adjutant", a type of military administrative assistant.
René is so good! It's really impressive the level of pathos he can get across with pretty much just his eyes and posture. His entire face is smoothed out with his prosthetics, which limits his expressiveness. Yes, tone and delivery help, but his physical acting is so subtle and powerful. 💐👏
Ashes of Eden is a favourite of mine.
strangly i cant wait for you to get to the next star trek show xD over the years its became my favorite xD
Based. I Still like Ds9 and TNG more, but Enterprise is close behind them
Odo made one mistake: He believed anyone could ever love him. Trust me, that's a rookie move.
Oh and in case you guys didn't know. Blue ray players are backwards compatible with both DVD and CD's so you can pop the CD into the Blu ray drive and listen to it, even if you listen to it on the TV not your computer
My interpretation of the Worf-Odo interaction before the quarters tantrum is that Odo is confronted with one of the worst feelings he could experience: irrelevance. Odo’s life has been built around perfecting his duties and being the most responsible of the responsible. Catching the bad guy is his thing. But in this episode, he fails to do that, and it is Worf, a newcomer to the station, who accomplishes Odo’s job with Odo’s own crew. For Odo, that creates a feeling of failure and a sense of losing himself. His identity is tied so deeply to his work that being absent from it, distracted from it, and ultimately replaced within it cuts directly into who he believes himself to be. It is not just that Worf catches the assassin; it is that Worf does it while Odo is elsewhere, pulled away by feelings he does not know how to handle. That is where Kira’s quarters matter. Odo goes there already emotionally wounded, almost as if he is trying to end the suffering by finding some kind of relief through Kira. Instead, he ends up in another sparring match with humanoid feelings, something he has always claimed to detest and something he clearly does not know how to win against. Kira’s feelings for Shakaar force him to suffer even more, and Odo is left failing emotionally in the same episode where he has already failed professionally. The sense of failure cuts even deeper when Worf compliments Odo’s crew, because it demonstrates that they can get the job done without him. Worf does not mean it cruelly, but for Odo, it confirms the fear underneath everything: that he is becoming unnecessary, both professionally and personally. Because of all this, Odo feels that he has lost his identity. Falling in love with Kira has caused him to lose his sense of control, and failing at his job has taken away the one place where he usually knows who he is. So when we get to the end, what we are left with is an Odo who is play-acting the person he used to be. He puts on a performance for himself just so he can carry on.
Very well said
Odo getting friend-zoned by Kira and Quark in this episode lol
I am Shakaar and this is my adjective, don't bother asking their pronouns they only speak verbs. Enunciate!
One more late comment. I think the guys dont quite get Odo's shaepshifting. When he becomes a thing, hes not goo that looks like the thing. Its supposed to be the goo is like, some quantum sturcture thata actually can become something else, s when he changes into metal for example, its actual metal but with a "changeling" quantuim substructure, not just external appearance. yes this is more clarified later but i dont think details like that on technical bits count as spoilers. The changeligs really are one of the mopst geuninely "alien" species weve thus enecountered that is not quite a "GLB" though somewhere almost in between that and normal aliens.
TOS really had the best titles of any show I've seen. Even the bad episodes had great titles.
Indeed, some personal favorite bad TOS episodes with good titles were: "City on the Edge of a pretty good Waffle House" "What are Stuart Littles made of?", "Requiem for Methadone" and "For the Bars are closed, and the Taco Bell looks quite tempting"
One thing I'd change is having that strand of Odo's hair ending in a SFX of Odo's goop dripping fown onto the floor or into his leg, just to show how he's barely holding things together.
Weird take from Alex on Shakaar as a ‘dry politician’. The guy’s basically the George Washington of Bajor - rebel and freedom fighter who gets elected cause everyone fucking loves him.
Eh, I think he is pretty dry in this episode, but it makes sense why. This episode is largely Odo pov, Kira finds him interesting, but Odo just finds him normal and decent. Making Shakaar dynamic or compelling in this episode would be distracting for the plot going on, and not in keeping with Odo's pov anyway.
The episode title talk made me think of a meme I've seen around, basically "TOS episodes are called something like Lo, What Soul Doth Come Hence - A Brother? and it's about a giant space frog that controls your mind, and TNG episodes are called Explosion and it's about a big explosion"
Odo got caught in the crossfire of Kira and Shakaar's relationship.
... Love you... ... uew ouou ouuuuu... Will always love you.
... And... I .... E I E I.... Will always ...
Very enjoyable reaction. This episode tends to slip through the cracks when thinking about DS9’s best episodes for some reason and it shouldn’t. It’s brilliant on every level.
Ohh. The Kobiyashi Maru book is good.
Yeah there's the Odo/Kira/Shakaar thing, and that's all great, but I want to focus on Odo and Quark. After this episode it should be obvious that these two are a *pair* that really *care* for each other, but they absolutely *cannot* say it, lest they ruin that relationship. It's an amazing obvious antagonistic relationship when seen at face value, but you have to read almost all their interactions looking for the subtext. They can't admit it to anyone, not even to each-other or sometimes even to themselves. Like the listening device that Quark had in the food. Sure you can think that Quark is scheming and got caught, but he put that there and let himself get caught just to draw Odo out of his funk and give him a win. He plays Odo in that moment, who needs that win. Or when Odo has his quarters above Quark just to annoy him in the middle of the night. He doesn't have to do that, but he stomps around as a way to maintain a personal relationship, if that makes any sense. And the obvious soundproofing later which lampshades it all a bit more. Quark will scheme to get ahead, that's totally true, but he's not out to hurt Odo. And Odo knows he has to chase Quark all the time, and ruin those schemes, but he doesn't really want Quark to fail. Tom doesn't want to actually catch Jerry. But they have to do all this, including keeping up the pretense of being enemies, even though they really do respect each other. There's no betting pool that Quark is upset about. He goes to see Odo because he hears him having a bad time and he knows exactly why. But he has to put on the act "Oh, you turn into an animal and you'll start acting like one" to approach the real situation sideways. In subtext. It's all subtext with those two. And it's amazing.
When you watch episodes like Crossfire you can really see the difference between this and Voyager in the writing. Voyager has good characters but not as good of writing. You really feel for Odo here, and you get better appreciation for the Quark/Odo friendship.
When Worf congratulates Odo on how well he trained his deputies, it must at least briefly cross his mind that if he hadn’t trained them quite so well, the assassin might have succeeded… and then Odo’s thoughts may take him to some darker places he doesn’t want to think about.
There’s been a ton of little instances that show odo still loves Kira, including this episode
I took the arrest scene as him feeling like he was loosing control of "everything", his job being something he is so invested in and now he's not only losing Kira but that as well...his world coming apart. Then the Quark scene where he needs to either tell her or move on vs self destructing.
This is what happens when you don't care about the 'Plot'....people may get killed.....admittedly fictional characters may get killed. How many fictional characters have suffered and died because both of you often de-prioritise the plot?!!! How can you be so cold blooded?!!! How can you both live with yourselves?!!!
As an adult looking at Kira's face at the end I now see this was ALSO a story for young girls about being careful with you guy-friendships and how easy it is to hurt others. It wasn't just about dealing with heart break and unrequited love. Nana did great with that scene and I wonder if any girl-fans saw it that way on their first watch.
I certainly didn't, and still don't. Understanding that other people may be hurt because of how they feel about you, and that people might have feelings that you don't return, isn't specific to women. I would be very confused if anyone had told me as a girl that this story was supposed to teach me to be more careful - in what way? Kira didn't do anything wrong and she isn't responsible for managing the feelings of someone who hasn't even indicated he has feelings for her.
Target Audience and Patreons. Their Heart broken. Odo on the Ocean.
I agree Alex, Kira / Nana Visitor is one of the cutest humans to ever exist. Especially her smile, it's luminous & brimming with pure joy. I've also been the third-wheel victim or odd one out in a love triangle. But never in a situation where I'm compelled to exist in the same space as her day in-day out, as coworkers. That would substantially amplify the unusual and accidental cruelty of it. Poor, poor Odo. And even worse, existing for decades with the sincere belief that love and relationships are foreign incomprehensible forces taking humanoids on irrational hormonal trips. And then he's afflicted by that force and so overwhelmed, confused... in pain he has no context for. Given all that, Odo handled it remarkably well. I absolutely adore that Quark is there for him, even if he wouldn't admit it.
Well said regarding Odo’s understanding of emotions as an incomprehensible foreign force, but I gotta echo the thought on Nana Visitor’s smile. It’s amazing how much her smile affected me as a teenager. Not in a crude way. Not at all. Somehow her smile always seemed to convey a spirit of acceptance, openness and joy I didn’t get in my younger years.
I get the distinct impression both of you have spent some time in the "friend-zone". Meh... we're all be there =(
It's an inevitability for everyone, even attractive people. You may like someone who's already taken or in the starting stages of it, like in this episode.
My heart bleeds for Odo in this episode. Been there, been that, glad I've never had to endure it again. I give this one an A+.
So much subtle emotional pain in Rene’s acting.
I think by this episode it's clear that Worf is replacing Michael Eddington. Eddington never really popped off as a character. From his introduction in Season 3 Episode 1 until now he's been mostly an afterthought. In this episode they clearly say it... Eddington (head of Starfleet Security) is not here, worf used to do security, he can do his job... Worf can do everything Eddington does but adds being a Klingon Warrior and Worf's History to it... No need to waste time getting to know him . Not that we ever got to know much about Eddington. Anyway... I hated this episode when i saw it in Middle School... Needless to say it Hits Different as an ADULT!!! FYI: No one ever talks about how slutty people in Star Trek must be. They don't really have religion to guilt them into not having sex. They don't really have STD to worry about or unwanted pregnancy. It's safer than ever and DS9 will occasionally hint at the X rated side of Star Trek. On top of all that, they have RISA and HOLODECKS!!!! Which ironically have lots of Vulcan Love Goddesses... I find it funny how they fantasize about the shrewdest species in the federation.
Eddington is so boring I’m surprised Kira hasn’t fallen for him.
I get why Kira would go for Shakaar. Duncan Regehr played one of the best Draculas ever put to screen, he was a staple of 80 television and played Zorro.
Too bad he had to play a Bajoran male politician (what is it with Bajoran males? Have we had any interesting ones since Jaro?(another Dracula btw)
This well respected irl hero president of Bajor who once was a Ghost Fabio is such a loser why would Kira be interested in him?????????
DS9 sex scoreboard After a long drought of notta-a-lotta lovin’ Kira scores!!! The sex score board Jadzia 5 Quark 5 Bashir 4 Sisko 3 Kira 3 +1 new Worf 2 Jake 2 Chief 1 Odo 1 GUEST: Shakaar +1 new DETAILS: Shakaar slippin her the ole salami. So Dr Beverly and now Kira this dude has got the “IT”. Oh wait that is not the same ghost guy……….. OR IS IT?
Wait, wtf, Jake has had sex? When? Is he even 18?
I like to think the Chief and Bashier went back to the holosuites to fly WW2 planes after the opening scene.
Marc Alaimo?
In the beginning when you thought Worf was leaving they actually said Eddington wa away so Worf would be handling starfleet security
Yeah, the exact line is "Commander Eddington is on leave, I'll ask Mr. Worf to head up starfleet security while he's gone." Like, "oh no! however will we get by!"
we get some good DS9 episode names
I feel like they did a good job in this episode of making Kira look extra... something. Like she's shown very much in a way you can see how she looks through Odo's eyes. A lot of that is probably acting by Visitor
If they have Q-Squared there that's good as well
I read The Devil's Heart. That one is good.
its also the fact that worf, not odo, caught the assasin and didnt even involve Odo that lead to his freakout
Odo's album cover with his streaky hair and the Ferengi in the Pajamas among the rubble. That image is burned into my mind since the day I saw it.
The hair streak was something Rene came up with and the director liked it
watching the boys want to die (positive) watching this episode is kino
Alex doesn’t know how close he is about the climax being a big moment where Odo has to decide whether to save Shakaar. The original ending in the script was Odo having to choose between saving Shakaar or Kira from an explosion, and he chooses Shakaar, and Kira almost dies. The writing staff knew that wasn’t working (Odo was kind of a dick in that version), so they rebroke the story and made massive changes to make it a “gentler” episode.
Your conversation at the end got me thinking about what it might have been like for Rene or Nana to have gotten the chance to play a Walter White / Breaking Bad type of main character. I bet either of them could have done great, and it would have been awesome to witness.
Maybe they should have called it... The Crossfire. Two words, can't go wrong! ;)
Glad you guys enjoyed this episode!
I, for one, don't find it strange that Kira would be attracted to superficially "bland" men. Opposites often attract one another. Kira's past has been anything but bland and quiet. It makes perfect sense for her to find attraction in stability.
What is "bland" about a leader of a resistance cell who elevates to the leader of a whole planet?
I've got to admit, on this rewatch, I appreciated it more. I still think Shakaar is really bland in it, and overall I'm just not a fan of Odo's feelings for Kira, but the writing is definitely very good, and Auberjonois's acting is excellent.
You know what's funny, for DECADES, I too called it "Who Mourns for Adonis." Then I got the Roddenberry Vault DVDs, and DC Fontana was talking about the episode and called it "Who Mourns for Adonais." I went back and looked, and it is (of course she was right) A-DON-A-IS. I was floored. I had no idea I'd been saying it wrong for so many years. (I looked it up, and it's a reference to a fairly obscure poem. )
It was an elegy for John Keats written by Percy Shelley
The one thing Odo is good at is his job. He takes the majority of his personal identity from it. So when he suddenly realizes that he not only doesn't get the girl, but that Worf is now doing his job better (coupled with the turboshaft incident), I think that's what sends him over the edge. His life is suddenly chaotic and disorderly. The ultimate insult to himself. Also, a broken heart of course.
And Odo hates chaos and disorder in his life so it is even more of a self betrayal.
Heads up I think the return has spoilers for 1st contact
Yeah, I hope they look at the production dates of all those and not assume they are all "safe".
Many of the early s4 scripts and ideas were greenlit before Worf transferred aboard. That’s why it’s taken some time for him to settle into the show.
Ah yes, the episode that, for some, is just eh, but for those who've 'been there', do they ever feel that. /has been there
I interpreted his freakout of how much he's let the Kira thing turn his life upside-down and him realizing it when Worf basically does his job, something very personal to him. He cares order deeply and his infatuation with Kira has put that one constant in choas, so he has nothing left. That's why his correction is to take Kira out of the equation so at least he has his order, and his job which he's mentioned several times gives him great satisfaction. It's a form of denial but it's not because he feels he has no friends. Heart of Stone solidifies he thinks he has close friends now, he named Sisko, Dax, Obrien specifically as his friends. And by the end of the episode even Quark is a friend, and he knows it. Also "the way" terrorist group behind the assassination attempt is not new, they were also mentioned as the group behind the shuttle blowing up in Our Man Bashir.
René perfected the comedy staight-man role before he ever came to Star Trek (Benson, which was also a spinoff show). By this time he can even be a straight-man in a drama series if that's even a thing.
My personal choice for best performance in all of Trek would either be one of those actors who appear in multiple different guest roles or Marc Alaimo as Dukat because from what I've heard his portrayal of the character is basically his own doing and not what the writers/producers envisioned.
Agreed my favorite characters are the "other cast" Dukat, Garak, Nog, and more we've yet to be introduced to.....
I've got both Amzodi and Relics on audio book. Johnathan Frakes I think had way too much fun doing that. Relics was done by James Doohan wih an intro by Lavar Burton my only critique on that is Doohan dose a poor impersonation of Data.
I do appreciate Doohan's delivery of Data's classic line: AAYE, I'M JUST A WEE ANDROID, I GOT NO BLOODY FEELINS CAPIN!
They never mention the Majors sick baby blue dress uniform
I always thought Odo's freakout was because being the security guy is his thing and he knew that he messed up with the turbolift and being distracted in general, but was still getting credit for it through the actions of his men even though he himself didn't deserve it. Kind of like Li Nalis a little, feeling like a fraud/imposter syndrome.
You say about Shakaar being a dry politician but Kira heard about his legendary candle
Just a warning, some of those books are going to reference things and events you haven't seen yet.
I wouldn’t listen/read it if we haven’t passed the publishing date
Odo gets caught up in the crossfire. I forgot how relentlessly brutal this episode is. If you've ever been a third wheel — so, if you're a human — this just beats the hell out of you for 45 minutes. Tons of credit to Rene Auberjonois for being able to portray empty hopelessness so perfectly on his face. I have trouble taking Shakaar seriously because that actor gives me Will Forte vibes, but everything else about this was quietly heartbreaking. I wanted Odo to get some closure too, but what a power move to end the episode without it. You've got to have some confidence in your show and your audience to do something like that.
My boyfriend cheated on me with my friend in my own room as I was sleeping, and long story short, they ended up dating when I broke it off. This episode hurts. Or it did hurt. I am so numb to my emotions now, I can watch it fine lol. But there was a time not too long ago that this may have been the most painful episode of Trek for me. Not that Odo's situation mirrored mine exactly but it was at least close enough with the emotions that...yeah. Pure torture.
I think Avery Brooks, without question, has the widest variability in performances of any of the actors playing captains in Star Trek. I think he's capable of delivering a performance as emotionally powerful as anything we see from Patrick Stewart, but also something that can rival Shatner (at his most memeable) for hamminess. It just depends on the day. A true wild card in every episode (though I think he's been much more consistent in season 4).
These guys hate any negative critiques of the Shat. But I agree.
Well without even watching yet, I sense an S or A+ from the both of you. 👍
oh yeah, agreed. They will love it :D