UNCUT - Alliances (VOY S2E14) | Star Trek Journey 394

This episode has always had a special place in my heart because my Dad was in it as an extra. He won a contest that TV Guide ran. I got to hang out on set as a kid and meet a lot of the cast. Got to hang out with Ethan Phillips more than anyone, and he's an amazing human being. He made sure my mom and I got to eat the good food! Lol. Still have a couple pictures somewhere with both him and my dad in Full Makeup.

I don't want Seska to be a Rita Repulsa crazy over-the-top supervillain queen of the Kazon. The whole thing that makes Seska, and all Cardassians interesting is that they are SMART villians, not crazy villains. And Seska isn't under Cullah's thumb at all. Cullah is under Seska's thumb. She's the power behind the throne. Cullah is just a figurehead, and is too stupid to even know it. Chakotay even called out all of this to him in Maneuvers, but he didn't want to hear it. Again, she's a SMART villain. She knows that the play with the Kazon right now is to play into their whole misogyny thing as a blind spot so she can control everything behind the scenes without ever being suspected. Then when the time is right, she'll seize power, if and only if, that's what's going to put her in the most advantageous position. Even Zek understood this. Back in the Nagus, this is exactly what he criticized his son of not understanding. You don't "seize power." You manipulate behind the scenes. This is also exactly what the Founders do, and that's why the Dominion is such a threat. Smart villains aren't Dr. Evil. They win through subtlety, not loud, obvious, emotional condemnation of stuff they don't like. They win because you don't even realize they were the villian until they've quietly forged an empire right under your nose.

I like the first half of this episode. It actually dives into what a lot of people wanted more out of Voyager; conflict between the Starfleet and Maquis ideologies, and finding a middle ground between idealistic principles and pragmatism for survival. But as Alex said, then the episode just shuts that whole thing down, making this episode disappointing, mid, and forgetable. I think this episode would have been a lot better if the Trabe ended up not being evil, and we ended up actually allying with the Trabe and skipping the whole meeting with the first Maje's thing. That might have added an interesting dynamic to the show for a while being in an alliance. But nope. In typical Voyager fashion, good idea shut down almost immediately in favor of maintaining status quo. Just like what we've already seen so far with the possibilities of Seska, the female caretaker, and the Maquis all being nerfed. Also, this isn't the first time the Trabe were introduced. Kar (Aron Eisenburg) told us the whole history between the Trabe and the Kazon back in Initiations, and Cullah has referenced them several times since.

"Explore, Don't Help" might be my favorite Target Audience Star Trek meme lol

Not the best episode, but I'd give it a high C, bordering on low B. Also this episode is just over one year since Caretaker. Like most I agree the first half was stronger, and I do find Janeway's speech at the end somewhat cringe. Definitely felt the Jeri Taylor bleeding through in that scene. Like a bad version of a TOS "values speech". I expected you guys to like it more given you seemed to be into it early on, but you did touch on how it dulled the mood as you watched. I don't actually have as much of a problem with the assassination attempt. Yeah the guys aim was terrible, but the Trabe planned to be in the same building with Janeway and crew in another room. you wouldn't want to launch a torpedo or plant anything larger than a small bomb. Also always bugged they used 3 of their supposedly irreplaceable torpedoes on that one ship, and set them to fireworks mode so they did nothing. Photons are supposed to be on the level of city killer nukes, in fact more powerful than the largest nuke we ever detonated, and they're very rarely depicted as such(The Die is Cast being an exception). Really though, Janeway should have contacted the kazon, say she's received intelligence that there may be an assassination attempt, and simply suggest having the conference virtually. They can link up all their viewscreens and never be in the same room. I don't get the comments about Janeway "letting misogyny get to her". Yeah Culluh is especially misogynistic, which I think is amusing given how often he finds himself having to rely on one woman and being in a weaker position than another, and he has to swallow his pride every time. Not sure if that's a kazon thing at large. Jabim in Caretaker didn't seem to take any issue with Janeway being a woman. I wouldn't have gone for the crew swap either. Your crew could end up being held hostage while they demand technology in exchange for releasing them, and their crew could be spies and saboteurs on your ship, not to mention Voyager is (theoretically) heading out of the region. Yeah the Trabe ended up being shitheads as well, but with the information she had at the time, allying with them made sense. The Trabe never attacked Voyager, the Kazon have been attacking them for a year. Also, the Trabe had apparently given up on reclaiming their homeworld, and wanted to settle somewhere beyond the reach of the kazon. Even if Mabus wanted to go around gathering up the various Trabe groups, that would mean a larger and more powerful fleet with Voyager lending it's firepower, along with medical aid and perhaps engineers to repair their ships. They could travel together until they find an uninhabited world well beyond the reach of the kazon, and Voyager would have a massive escort up to that point. So yeah, definitely has some major flaws, and they did try to cram too much into 45 minutes, but still one of the better uses of the Kazon IMO. Of course the Kazon suck, so that's not saying much.

I think the thing you might’ve missed with how wrong Janeway’s speech is the fact that nothing she did during the episode violated Star Fleet protocol. Janeway never offered to give technology but just tried to reach a compromise. They wanted to make Janeway right but didn’t really have her sacrifice any ideals. Everything she did would be what any other captain would have done. They strawmaned and moved the goal post and expect you not to notice. It’s bad characterization and bag storytelling.

RIP Crewman Kurt Bendera Somehow I only just now learned (in doing research for this episode after your reaction) that Voyager is actually pretty good about consistency with their named background extras. Lt. Ayala for example has shown up in a ton. As far as our lost crewmember this episode, Kurt Bendera, he had a few notable appearances before his untimely death: - He can be seen in the background multiple times in "Learning Curve" including when the Maquis trainees run through. - He took over for Tuvok at tactical when Tuvok took command in "Twisted". - He was in the background talking in the mess hall when Kim/Tom had their awkward Kes avoidance moment in "Parturition". - He can also be seen at tactical filling in for Tuvok in your favorite episode, the Joel Grey powerhouse that is "Resistance" - Finally, according to Chakotay's eulogy, he and recurring credited extra Hogan are close. (Hogan's the guy who "speaks freely" to the captain) In total imdb lists he had 8 or 9 uncredited appearances until his untimely death in this episode: Caretaker*, Cathexis, Jetrel, Learning Curve, Elogium, Twisted, Parturition, Resistance, Alliances. (*Memory Alpha says it's him in Caretaker, imdb says he's just 'wounded officer' in this ep) RIP Crewman Kurt Bendera, you will be missed and only possibly immediately forgotten. *In the aaaaarms of the angels...*

Glad you guys are interested in Grimm. It's a really good show, that a majority of fans think is consistently good throughout. Also not a huge commitment at only 6 seasons. Hopefully we'll get to see you guys react to it someday

That section of down time during the intro music Alex entertaining us, amused me to no end. That makes it worth becoming a patron. You both should take turn with entertainment during the intro. I actually think it might have been the favorite part of this episode's reaction. Lol

Yeah. great 1st half. goods idea for the end. Never stuck the landing. Ending speech is preachy/ condescending rather than thoughtful.

This episode is great because it finally makes proper use of the setting: We've had plenty of prime directive episodes over the years, but this take on it is one that can ONLY be done on Voyager. Which ought to be the whole point of the show; exploring ideas and episodes you couldn't otherwise do when constrained inside the Federation. But on top of that -- We have: - REAL Maquis/StarFleet tension (finally) - Things not magically working out in the end (finally) - Talking through the long term costs of their decisions (finally) I'll concede I'm likely grading on a curve for Voyager's sake, but even without the curve THIS is what the 'no backup on the frontier' setting ought to be for, and THIS is the episode that finally actually delivers on it. I also have a soft spot for Janeway being an inflexible hard ass crazy person, because in a normal setting that would be without question a bad quality -- but on this ship? with these challenges? facing 70 years of compounding life or death stakes? Maybe you need a tyrant

I would have liked to have seen Seska have that long overdue conversation with her friend B'Elanna. It would be interesting to see if she might be able to convince Seska to return to Voyager

First thing I appreciate Alex entertaining us while Josh was getting a drink, stoic silence is best. I think Voyager should share technology with the Kazon. Lets give them shampoo, conditioner and sonic showers. So far I have seen everything from pieces of carpet to mushrooms growing out of their hair. I have seen hair like that at music festivals back in the day though after they rolled around in the mud high as a kite.

B'Elanna really went from: "Who is she to be making this decision for all of us!" To:"Who are you to be questioning her? You don't know the kind of pressure she's under!"

Alternate lesson: Voyager crew are really bad at reading people and could probably have used at least a half-Betazoid, if not a full Betazoid when meeting with new peeps

The first half is quite enjoyable. Neelix gets to do what he was brought aboard to do. I think this episode suffers from a character overload. New recurring characters Hogan and Jonas. Cullah and Seska. Mabus and more Kazon. Evidently, an early draft of the script had all the Kazon leaders in the room die. But Jeri changed it.

@1:03:29. Looks familiar? Look to your left. The expanded edition is sitting right there.

The first 20 Minutes: Great, A tier. The Battle Scene and the inner conflict and grief of the Crew. *chef's Kiss* The other 25 Minutes? Messy at best. C Tier.

@59:05 "something that would blow up...". You got that right. My eardrums blew immediately after that.

Any episode with Chakotay out front tends to drift into dull territory. I honestly don't know how this guy wasn't fired.

The whole "Janeway is wrong but the episode doesn't know she is wrong." is kind of one of my big issues with the series overall. DS9's writing revels in the flaws of it's characters, regardless of race, gender or creed. Voyager is really throwing it's back in to making Janeway right all the time, even when the script doesn't support it. I think that's an earnest attempt as a positive portrayal of showing a powerful female character in sci fi that is problematic in it's own way with 30 years of hindsight. They had the same issue with the Samantha Carter character over on Stargate for quite a few years before they figured it out.

"The Prime Directive" is idealism run amok. It's Gene Roddenberry's straight-jacket that drives the storytellers nuts. Along with his restraint on "conflict amongst the crew" in early Next Generation, it removes the driving force from many plots. "These people are in danger of dying if we don't act fast!" Ah, but the Prime Directive... Can you imagine sitting in the writers room with these prohibitive chains that force you into this dilemma? We can't have conflict, and we can't get involved... Again, it's pure idealism that makes writing for a television series incredibly difficult. Therefore, every story where we struggle with the Prime Directive is EXACTLY what goes on in the writers' room sessions.

This is an interesting episode that feels almost like it had two different directors. The first half is VERY strong (almost worthy of S-Tier). The second half feels completely different. It's almost a 2-parter shoved into one episode and drops to very mid. In my opinion, it would have been better if this was a multi-episode arc where we build up relations with the Trabe, then were betrayed by them in the end, feeling completely used.

That's so weird, I have read exactly one star trek book. and it was Imzadi

1:02:50 oh awesome, I had that exact encyclopedia when I was a kid! I loved it

This is Janeway’s character, do what she thinks is right in the moment and live with it

This episode is memorable for two things: 1) Tuvok's reference to Star Trek VI (good) 2) The ship blasting up the conference room (really bad) other than that I got nothing

I'm starting to become annoyed with the name-dropping in the recent episodes. Last episode, Torres mentioned Data by name (which you guys pointed out as unnecessary), and this episode Tuvok mentions Spock. I wonder what the ratings were like for the show at this point in its initial run, and if the producers were trying to come up with ways to appease the Star Trek fan-base to tune in by reminding them "Hey guys, this is still Star Trek! You remember Data, right? You remember Spock, right? Yeah, we're a part of that family, too!" I hope it will at least not be nearly as frequent in coming episodes. Oh, and C-rating from me, too. We're back to mediocre.

Sarek is also an excellent book!

Federation is an excellent novel!

I don't think the episode is necessarily dry, but they crammed about 3 episodes into 1 and had no time to develop any of the plot points in the last 2/3. I would like to point out though, all the people saying previously in season 1 "there's no tension between the Maquis and the Federation crews", here we are in mid season 2 with some of the Maquis contemplating or committing mutiny.

Yeahhh... definitely agree how Janeway got blinded by misogyny. Glad others seem to agree and aren't accusing people of people misogyny apologists for saying so.

Voyager's survival in the Delta Quadrant isn't because of sticking true to Federation ideology, it's plot armor, and whatever the writers come up with.

I love Anthony Delongis’ strong leading man jaw! He’s Dukaty in his performance!

One of the few episodes I think should have been a two parter. There's a lot crammed in and nothing is really given time to breath and settle in.

This is one of those episodes that everytime I watch it, I have a different opinion. When watching it this last time, I remember thinking it kinda sucked before starting. I ended up liking it more. I'm sure next time I watch it, I'll think this was a good episode, and be disappointed.

This episode is grittier than most episodes. People complain about VOY not living up to “miles from home” premise. No back up low on resources.. This episode opens with them being hounded by Kazon and battle damaged.

It seems like Voyager does real world allegory a bit too on the nose. Kazon supposedly "la gangs" then "oh theyre violent because they were oppressed in the past"... voyager will have this habit and not for the better. take DS9 where Bajor and Cardassia feels all too familair but also non specific

I do recall in the online fandom at the time that this episode is where some who were on the fence about Voyager started to jump ship. There was something about the show tackling such an interesting idea, whether the Voyager crew was willing to make compromises in order to survive, and then just completely sweeping it aside with a tidy Janeway speech that made some fans go: “I’m done.”

Even if this one missed the mark a bit there’s always next week.

Below Mid. C-. I honestly don't know what to say here. I can't stand the Kazon and Obvious Twist Villian was obvious.

Alex saying 'the Encyclopedia looks familiar,' while the updated edition is literally in camera shot behind Josh's shoulder! Great books anyway!

Am I the only one who thinks it is super odd the Kazon play an applause track when they announce their names for the conference? Unless there was a room full of people off camera watching all this? I've always been so confused by this. It also makes me wish a laugh track was added to the meeting that followed, it would have been more entertaining.

I guess I like this one a bit better than the consensus (and guess what? I also like "Mask"). But I do think that it felt rushed and the execution was weak at times. For instance, the whole conference thing - I like it in principle, but it felt rushed and the direction/editing of the assassination attempt wasn't good. It needed a lot more room to breathe and build up the tension.

A little surprised you and everyone else is this negative. I would give this episode a B+. I like the Kazon history stuff, and how Voyager is put in a tight spot. Some of the dialog in the first half is excellent.

"The encyclopedia looks familiar" – yeah, it's right behind you. It's in the picture.

I do think they tried too much for one episode the beginning was good

W thumbnail, Alex

Also, I read a retrospective once where the author argued that the Prime Directive makes Star Trek really weird politically. It's a "conservative" structure of an unbending rule that everyone must always follow, but it's about the "liberal" idea that we don't interfere with others' cultures. It's a command to take the action of not doing anything, which is profoundly strange. I don't know that I fully agree with the way he framed it, but it does lead to odd dilemmas and strange outcomes on episodes like this one.

It's always nice to see Maquis commander Chakotay. Too bad he's only a guest star.

That's strange when you mentioned the Kazon sects could have WWE style entrance music I remember watching this episode years back and it did broadcast music for each Kazon! found a vid showing it: " Strange fanfare Star Trek Voyager 2.14 "alliances" " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uM2aot_vl8

I don't necessarily wish Seska stayed on the ship, but I do wish they hadn't tied her to the Kazon. Imagine if instead it was her and a few defectors from the crew (with a mix of Maquis AND Starfleet officers who disagree with Janeway's methods, as well as perhaps an accumulating rogues gallery of Delta aliens) and every time they showed up they had a new alien species as their ally helping them out in exchange for Alpha Quadrant tech. The fact that they'd be catching up or sometimes even be ahead of the Voyager crew would be an interesting showcase that interfering with alien cultures *is* getting them home faster, while at the same time bringing chaos to the Delta natives (showing *why* the Prime Directive exists). You could also have episodes where our heroes are being hindered by Seska's crew's negative reputation as well as the reverse (Seska benefitting from the Voyager crew's positive reputation). I also would've had her be more of a once-or-twice-a-season surprise like Q or Kai Winn.

The first half of this was much better than I remembered — I love the tension between the crew. It gets less interesting with the one-dimensional Kazon and the boring Trabe, and then after the stupid strafing-the-room scene, we wind up right back where we started. I wish all the great arguments between the crew had gotten us somewhere.

Audio seemed fine to me. Only distortion i noticed was at the end.

I think Seska is the queen of the Kazon. It's subtle but she really rules through Cullah she makes him think it's his idea

Wish.com Klingons become less interesting by the episode.

OK. This has nothing to do with the quality of this particular episode. It’s something that I admit is not that important. I don’t really care that much. I understand the dramatic reasons for it. It has just always given me a headache when I try to think about it. So, Voyager is heading home. They are presumably traveling mostly in a straight line at the fastest warp speed they are capable of, only stopping to gather resources, do some exploration, or deal with a problem. So, how do they ever run into the same people twice? Shouldn’t they warp away and never see them again? Have they just been leisurely flying around in a circle in Kazon territory for a year now? Are they planning on taking 750 years to get home?

It gets better. It gets worse. It gets better. It gets worse. It gets better. It gets worse