UNCUT - Maneuvers (VOY S2E11) | Star Trek Journey 388

Writers Idea: 'Lets have Seska steal technology' The Episode: "Seska steals every scene she is in'

I don't buy the idea that the transporter "altering the balance of power" is really that big a deal? It's not Prime Directive because the Kazon are warp capable. And at the end of the day Voyager is just one ship alone in the Delta Quadrant - Janeway getting her pants in a twist over this is either weird writing or she really is just a fucking crazy person. Also the idea it is changing the balance of power in "the quadrant" is nonsense. Plenty of fucking races have transporter tech and far superior tech than Voyager in the Delta quadrant. The Sikarians had the technology to transport people 30k lightyears in "Prime Factors" ffs.

Season 2 is the worst season of this show, by far. Followed by season 3. After that, hold on tight because things improve dramatically. Until then, I will bide my time. This is still my second favorite ST show. Luckily I have the luxury of skipping these seasons, sadly, you all are taking one for the team.

The opening thing of space the final frontier….that’s reserved only for signature prime Star Trek shows with an Enterprise

I just found out the actor who played Marg Kullah was Blade in the 1987 masters of the universe film.

They had to complete emasculate chakotay by making him seska’s bitch.

As much a Voyager is the formula of the ship in space, I feel the writers know they need to take some risks. They aren't intending to give another TNG product. The ending pretty much guarantees that we are going to see more of Seska and the Kazon. I think the biggest shock here is how frank they are about sex.

voyager for me always was the show that improved the most with later seasons so just dont worry :) but then you love what i oath and you hate what i love, maybe thats a bad sign for you guys :)

Contemplating / Contemplative -- deep in thought. Seska steals the show...and Chakotay

I agree that the Kazon have sh*t hair, I mean I have seen worse at a music festival back in the day. There seems to be a real shortage of water with the Kazon, that one guy had mushrooms growing in his hair.

Oh, no. I go to my Voyager folder, and this episode has my note "Chakotay the idiot the episode" in the file name...

RIP Terry Lester (Haron of the Relora). Gone too soon due to AIDS.

I think I missed the PT for this episode, but I’m very surprised that so many are down on it. It’s a pretty kick ass episode after having a number of mediocre ones. You guys were on the fence if we’d ever even see Seska again. I’ve been waiting for this episode!! Also, Alex with the “Seska could be leading her own small sect”; that’s exactly what she’s doing, bro!! How are you not feeling that?? She’s the most intelligent person on the ship and literally the “Power behind the throne”. This is a common theme in storytelling for centuries. Her having her own sect would be less interesting. She DOES control the Nidstrom…from the shadows.

I was mad I was too late to get my patron take in for this episode. I think this is a great episode. We have awesome character moments from Chakotay, B'Elanna, and Janeway. Great follow up with the Kazon and Seska (you don't have to like the Kazon to appreciate the quality of an episode that centers around the Kazon. I don't particularly like the J'em Hadar, but I can still appreciate a good episode that features them). I thought this was well paced, well acted, well directed, and led to some really wonderful scenes. And what about the Kazon beaming the two opposing Kazon into space??? What a brutal form of execution! Talk about a show of power. Voyager has been in a bit of a slump the last few episodes, and I thought this one was a refreshing return to what makes Voyager so good. As for your fear about Voyager being held back by the producers/bureaucratic concerns (or however the guys described it), unfortunately Voyager was in a position where it was under a considerable amount of scrutiny and control by the network big wigs. As the flagship show for a brand new network, they had pinned a lot of their success on Voyager's success and so were keeping Voyager on a tight leash. All things considered, I think Voyager came out to be a shining success in spite of a lot of factors that could have caused it to crash and burn. That says a lot about the quality of the show.

So wait... viewers complain that Chakotay adjusted to Starfleet life too quickly, but then when he goes and does something impulsively and more what you would expect from a Maquis, those same people complain that it's out of character. I don't know what people want to see. To me it makes sense and I think the episode describes his character and his motivations very well. And he didn't just disregard things like the concerns of technology falling into the hands of the Kazon. He took great pains to make sure that did not happen. So I don't think he was out of character at all. I think this episode helped give greater depth and understanding into his character.

Voyager sex scoreboard Sexka is back and bangin. SCOREBOARD Paris 2 Chakotay 1 Neelix 1 Kes 1 Harry 1 Torres 1 Jayneway 1 GUESTS Seska 2 +1 new DETAILS Sexka did get a score by a Kazon Maj. Side bar, is it wrong we got turned on by the scene where the Kazon telling Seska about things going to happen and she keep saying yes Maaaj in a sexy voice. Seska sort of had sex with Chaktay but it would not count as a score since it would be repeater or a RE-peter Also Sexka now is tied for the lead but is not a regular crew member

Agree with your thoughts on the Kazon, they're just not that interesting.

Thanks for reading my take! I feel honored, given how few takes were chosen. Although your comments didn’t change my mind, I get where you’re coming from. My argument is if Chakotay behaved differently, we’d have a different episode instead of no episode, but since you liked the interrogation scene and the pregnancy reveal, I can see why you thought this portrayal was worthwhile.

It’s not rape, it’s battery. She extracted his DNA without his consent using a needle to the neck. Rape has additional connotations and a psychological impact that this act did not have. The fact that she modified his DNA and impregnated herself is not different from her taking his DNA and making a clone or dissolving it in acid. It was an egregious violation of his body, but it was not rape.

"Chakotay defied orders. Mr. Kim, report to the brig." — Janeway, probably

Janeway really just insulted an Indian by calling him a cowboy

I'm glad you both love Martha Hackett as much as i do. Like you in general i'm not a big fan of the Kazon, so for me having Seska around improves the episode. I obviously love the ending too. This would have been a C from me, but the Seska scenes have made it a B.

Not Tuvok bucking for promotion every five minutes of this episode. 😂

The only good coming from this Episode is Janeway.

"Hey Chakotay, stole your baby gravy, Kthanksbye!"

Chakotay is underutilized which is baffling because 3/4ths of the time he gets an episode, it's usually great. Apparently he got fed up for awhile with not getting enough episodes/scenes, and started trying to get fired . He would do this by asking for an increasingly asinine amount of money for the next season. Each time, they just paid it, and he was like... well, guess I'm doing another season.

Season 2 & 3 are my least favorite of Voyager, but these seasons are stacked heavier at the beginning and end. Appreciate y'all not getting too jaded, while watching stellar DS9 episodes while simultaneously watching mediocre early Voyager. My ranking is S5, S7, S4, S6, S1, S3, S2.

Solid episode, but not amazing. Seska's return is welcome, and the Kazon are a halfway credible threat now thanks to her tactics. But I do have to say, why the hell weren't the command codes changed immediately after her defection? Ditto for Chakotay getting captured? I do agree this is the best material they've given Chakotay, at least since early S1. Gotta love how both he and Seska are just manipulating Culluh for the entire episode. She's stroking his ego so she can continue to be the "power behind the throne", and then Chakotay spends the whole interrogation driving a wedge between them, all while Culluh is getting annoyed and questioning his life choices. Ken Biller wanted to have Janeway throw Chakotay in the brig, but he wasn't allowed to, so we got the mild dressing down at the end instead. I don't think it was particularly effective. Tuvok and Janeway had been close for years, and that friendship was part of his motivation. Her response had impact there. Here it just felt like Janeway has no control of her crew. In regards to Seska impregnating herself with Chakotay's DNA, it seems very random but I think it makes a degree of sense. Putting aside how attracted to Chakotay Seska actually is to want to have his child, I think this was a contingency plan. Had they managed to capture the ship when Voyager came to rescue Chakotay, then it wouldn't be necessary. I think Seska knew it was possible for Voyager to pull off the rescue, and as others have pointed out, Voyager is heading for Earth, and eventually will move beyond Kazon space. I think this was a way to get a hook into Voyager and Chakotay in particular. They could choose to ignore her message which could be a fake as far as they know, but if Chakotay feels any sort of responsibility toward the baby, it becomes a lure she can use to force another confrontation. Would Chakotay have told the crew if he saw Seska's message in private? No I don't think so. I do think he would have told Janeway though.

So I'm not sure. Did Chakotay have sex with Seska?

They finally figured out that the opening monologue isn't technically a Captain's Log... just in time for them to get confused about who this "Khan" character is.

If Seska wanted my DNA she could have extracted it the old fashion way. I hate needles.

I love season 2

I think maybe you guys meant “Captain’s Creed” during the intro

Anyway, I agree with Josh for the most part about this episode. I think it's the best Chakotay stuff we've seen, and better use of the Kazon than in past episodes.

The plan was to transport at warp, but the dampening field meant they couldn't do it, so they dropped out of warp to try to transport. What I don't understand is how they were transporting with the shields (apparently) up.

It’s interesting that Janeway is referring to Paris’ bridge station, conn, when contacting him on the bridge instead of just saying “Janeway to Lt. Paris”. I don’t think she’s done that before this episode.

Don't worry, second season is definitely the worst of them; but at the same time it contains at least two of the absolute fan favorites VOY episodes of them all. You still need to suffer for a few though.

The Chakotay scenes on the Kazon ship and with Captain Janeway, and having Seska return, and elevate this episode to a B in what would otherwise had been another C episode for me. As for the ending, I'm with you both ... WTF!!???

I think the writers just wanted to say "sects" a lot, like a bunch of 12 year old boys.

Jesus S2 of Voyager is fucking rough. Back in the 90s these episodes were released on 4 episode rental tapes in the UK. This episode has brought back a 30 year old memory of being bored shitless. 😂

I like this one specifically for the Seska stuff, but also for Janeway dressing down Chakotay at the end. Not in a schadenfreude way, just that it was nice to see someone fuck up and the problem get handled in a pretty realistic way. People just make bad choices sometimes

I appreciate the discussion about characters acting in or out of character. I would say that this is more of a problem if a character goes against a core aspect of their characterization without enough/proper justification. You were touching on this point, but for me it's definitely a question of does the writing make me believe or buy into the character's actions. And I would say the episodes justified Worf and Chakotay's actions enough for me. Obviously, everyone's personal lines are different. Meanwhile I had a hard time accepting that Beverly would throw away her career and behave so recklessly just to "potentially" solve a murder of a random ferengi scientist we just met. It's not that it is impossible, I just had a hard time sympathizing with Beverly because she's always been a much more disciplined and professional person up til then.

Best part of this episode was Janeway's face when B'Elanna sat on her couch without permission.

Don't worry guys, this season has some great episodes and truly terrible episodes coming up

As usual, maybe not the story I would have told, but I like watching it and for context initially this was the first I saw Seska and all

lol, this is the second time in a row I was startled by them popping to the credits, I never read the credits, it's a distraction from the dialogue. Also I've been of the opinion that Brannon Braga is what Alex feared Ira Steven Behr was. Braga is untalented corpo hack, he only tends to be good when paired with someone of talent (Moore).

The Doodlebops is such a niche Canadian mid-2000's show to randomly bring up lol, I remember it being on every day before Zaboomafoo

Molly was in Rascals, when she doesn't accept young Keiko as her mother.

"CONN," short for "Control." You used to hear Kirk say it all the time, "Scotty, you have the CONN." In the TNG era it refers specifically to the helm. Picard in season 1 frequently said "CONN" referring to Geordi's position as pilot. So, Janeway was calling Tom Paris "CONN."

The whole thing about, "Well, okay, if they don't do that, then no episode," is, if you feel like the character has to act weird or out of character to make the episode work... maybe the episode needs work or needs to be replaced. Easier said than done on their schedules and having to write 20-26 of them, I get that, but just saying. I'm not necessarily agreeing with that complaint about Chakotay here, although I think I do tend to agree with it as a criticism of Meridian and Jadzia.

If you think the pregnancy drop is fun, okay, I guess. I just think it kinda felt like 90s hokey, soapy, almost trashy, tacked-on story to the end of the episode.

"Space the final frontier..." works for the other shows when they are heading out exploring. Janeway would have to use Adama's Galactica narration. "A shining planet, known as Earth..." :)

So, my only thing here- The idea of Chakotay potentially being a father and having a child as a product of non-consensual sex is.... well, Trek has certainly explored some heavy themes but it almost feels like thats a bit much even for star trek, so putting my hat on here where I'm seeing this for the first time, I think I'd have to say... are they really going to follow through with this? Like imagine a femal crew member had a child by means of sexual assault and had to deal with that... I don't know, that's VERY heavy even for trek. Like Voyager is supposed to be the somewhat lighter one vs DS9 and its somewhat... i the kind of thing where you feel like, even they are going to deal with this and they are getting into some very risky territory or they are just kind of going to brush it off.. I guess this could be kind of a spoiler but I think it's worth noting Voyager in particular has not had the best reputation when they attempt to tackle this sort of subject matter, and while I don't mind trek exploring dark themes, I feel like if they're going to introduce a plot line like that... they have to be ready to tacke that and its almost impossible to do something like that in a way that is going to... people are going to have very intense, very mixed feelings about something like this, and I just dont think its an element to introduce purely for the sake of "plot drama." I mean, I wouldnt even consider myself a feminist per ce but even still.. this is obviously an area where they could potentially really, really go wrong with this and.. I just don't love doing that sort of plot unless you really know exactly what you want to do with it... I don't know, treating SA as a point of "drama", even if the man is the victim still just feels like... not a direction I want for this show.

I don’t think any of the complaints about stuff like Kazon space being comically big actually matters if the episodes are good. I think we latch on to this type of stuff when the show is lacking. The Enterprise went all the way to earth in like half an hour in season one and nobody cared because Conspiracy was one of the least boring episodes.

Kazon r ther worst coast Klingons but I prefer their hair to Klingon hair metal do’s

Cullah is a Trek villain I love to hate. He's so pathetic yet egotistical, yet also somewhat aware of how insecure he is. He also occasionally has some actual menace to him, even if its on the level of a high school bully with a rich dad. Seska is full on Mean Girl at this stage. Which I love. The Kazon may be a lame recurring villain faction, but those two? Those two I enjoy a lot.

The biggest problem with this episode imo is the editing. There are things forgotten or slipped, like the warp speed trasnport, the action and negotiation sequences are inconsistent, the timing of the reveals are strange... I'd be interested to see how much the final product differed from the original script.

I bought the Prime Video episodes of Voyager but I am having trouble keeping them synced. I had bought them specificall because I thought they'd line up better with your playback. They are with the Deep Space Nine episodes. Do you use Paramount for Voyager?

I did not remember we got a "Fine Speech" outta one of these guys LOL *rubs GIANT HAIR spot*

Fun fact: the consultant they hired for Kazon culture turned out not to actually be Kazon, which in retrospect explains a lot.

When it rains (Target Audience Trek reaction content), it pours.

Josh “Lighten up - Do you want to have fun with these shows or not?” Also Josh - Little green men? With some episodes coming I hope you remember that. I hope you appreciate the ‘fun’ episodes. Keep up the great work.

On this episode of the soap opera "As the Delta Quadrant Turns" did Chakotay really father Seska's baby? Was he suffering from amnesia when it happened? Will Luke and Laura ever get together...? Do they even use soap in the 24th century? Do we care? D for Daytime Soap Opera level writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_and_Laura

The problem with serialization on Voyager is that it should only take place on board the ship. The in-universe time between Seska leaving Voyager in State of Flux and returning here is between six and seven months. So did Seska and the Kazon-Nistrim spend half a year flying towards Earth or has Voyager spent 200 days flying around in circles?

Let's go!