UNCUT - The Sword of Kahless (DS9 S4E9) | Star Trek Journey 387

I don't believe the sword is mystical or magical at all. It's just SO revered in the Klingon history, religion, and the belief of society that Worf said it best. "We are not ready." They're literally not mature enough to use the sword to better Klingon society because everyone would want it for themselves and the empire would be so fractured it would destroy itself. This is kind of an age old story. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Even good people. Because nobody's perfect. Nobody can resist it. It just means too much and the promise and hope of all your hopes and dreams being fulfilled is simply too much to ignore. Notice I said hopes and dreams. Not even selfish desires for glory or wealth. It's not out of character at all for Worf to believe in his hopes and dreams which seem impossible to achieve. But then to find the Sword of Kahless, the most important artifact in Klingon history, would seem even MORE impossible to find and yet they found it. Of course he would start believe his hopes and dreams could be fulfilled too. It corrupts you and you don't even realize it's happening. And it sets you against your people when it should bring you together. It's basically the Holy Grail. Or the movie/novel Sphere. If you haven't watched that, watch it. I also don't think it's terrible that Jadzia had to phaser the both of them to get them to stop fighting. That's what it took. They were never going to work this out on their own and realize it. Which just proves how dangerous the Sword is to Klingons. I do think a little more instead of a hard cut would have been better at the end, but I like that they didn't just "come to their senses". If anything it should have played more into Dax being needed to stop the feuding instead of playing it off as comic relief. That was her role in the story as a non-Klingon. It was all great. But I'd give it a B+ Banger. It's not S and it's not quite an A because while it had a very solid core, it still felt a little clunky and like a couple extra things could have made it better.

A major theme of this episode is "guys bullshitting about their accomplishments" and I am HERE for it. The Klingons are my favorite frat bros.

So you live in the federation and have a job (Just over broke) all your needs are met with UBI (replicator rations) you'll own nothing and will be happy (lol) and then along comes something (The Sword of Kahless) that is legendary loot. How much is the sword worth? well it has the power to move the civilization of a whole world so trillions at least. Even if you were not raised in capitalism as the good folk in the federation were not you get the "Greed is Good" part of capitalism pretty quick. They should have brought Quark along to explain that part. Most people tested with that much power or wealth would be instantly corrupted. I did like the Damascus steel look of the sword though a very nice pattern welded steel predating the modern duranium alloys used in modern star trek.

So, now the ambiguity here of Worf 'maybe' wanting to kill Kor is seen as a positive, but the same ambiguity in "The Most Toys" where Data 'maybe' wanted to kill Fajo (for much better reasons) is seen as a negative. Curious.

The only problem with the Duras kid being enraged with his loss of honor, is that the family of Duras has no honor.

Had a feeling you guys would like this one, though I didn't expect you to rank it quite as highly as you did. But in the end it's a small, character-focused story, where the plot and stakes exist just to push Kor and Worf to an extreme - right up your alley. I agree that it wraps up a bit more quickly than I'd like, but I think it still works well as is. If we got both a conversation between Kor, Worf and Dax where they come to agree that they need to leave the sword behind, AND the conversation that ends the episode, the latter would be a bit redundant. One of the two needs to be there, but both don't, and of the two the actual scene of them leaving it behind is the more important IMO.

Yeah, so I had no idea this episode had any haters until I read the patron takes. At the same time, I'm not putting it on the level of The Visitor or WOTW. It's an enjoyable, solid episode though. Teetering between B and A for me. If there is something I would criticize it's the pacing. I don't know if a 2 parter would have worked, maybe if they followed the Birthright format of part 1 being a different story with a bit of groundwork laid for part 2, like get the stuff on the station out of the way as a B plot in 1 episode, and have part 2 as JUST the quest for the sword. Either way, it needed more time. I think they made efficient use of time on the station setting everything up, but there just wasn't enough time left to do what was needed at the planet. Dax wasn't even expecting a forcefield, but with just a few seconds and some equipment she had on the runabout, and the ever reliable "reverse the polarity", she deals with it. Then in the room, a few seconds of casual observation and basic deduction gets them into the hidden compartment. The vulcans seriously couldn't have done that?? Both the escape from Duras and the setup of Worf and Kor's rivalry needed more time, and I agree a scene of them coming to their senses was needed. The stuff between those 2 points moved at the right pace IMO. We just needed about 15 more minutes on the planet. I think the comparison to the One Ring is apt, though I don't think the sword has any mystical power. I think it's entirely a matter of how revered a place it has in klingon society and what the means to the one who wields it. Kor is old and as Worf said, his best days are behind him, and Worf no doubt is consumed with the idea of using the sword to restore his family name. I don't think either are acting entirely out of character, which is to say where a cultural icon like the sword is concerned, I don't think there are many klingons that could resist the lure of what it represents. Kor, Worf and Toral all thought they could unite the entire klingon empire behind them with the sword, and they all tried to kill each other in the attempt. Worf no doubt realized the same thing would happen writ large if they took it back. Regarding recasting Toral, I always thought the new guy looked and especially sounded too old compared to the original actor, and assumed they got some guy who was like 10 years older, only to find out both actors were born within a few weeks of each other. Anyway, good episode

I'm just imagining the Indiana Jones 3 scene Alex talked about playing out here Dax "Commander! Worf.......let it go." Worf (drops sword) Kor falling into the abyss "What the fuuuccckkkk!!!!!"

It's a great episode. An A for me. I agree with Alex, we needed 1 scene where Worf & Kor realize they have been corrupted by the sword. I don't understand the fandom being mad about Worf. I think a lot of fans grew up idolizing TNG. I think they have a memory of Worf, a love of Worf, that mythologizes him rather than recognizes who he is. This is Worf. Now Worf usually does what we consider "right" in the end, but he has the angry Klingon impulses. Passionate. Intense. I love this one and I think Worf is spot on. However we were denied seeing his recognition that the sword is messing with him.

1 HUGE continuity Error is DS9/TNG/Voyager/Enterprise doesn't really show Klingon blood as PINK like the movies does. in way of the warrior when Martok cuts himself and shows his blood to show the others that he is not a changeling... its red ...Although it was kinda hard to see. It wasn't bright Pink like the movies. I don't remember seeing pink blood in any of the shows any time Worf or another Klingon is bleeding/injured.

They needed the duras kid... Not killing him is the reason KOR starts to turn on Worf saying how he is'nt Klingon because of denying himself the Right of Vengeance . They couldn't use the Duras sisters because they died in Generations. Duras kid is why Kor does'nt trust WORF. As for how they acted... I think the sword or the cave was affecting them because even Jadzia seemed to be under the influence. On the Other hand Kor was drunk and Worf was delerious from his injury/infection/loss of blood. They should've cut the Sisqo part or maybe shorten some of the other parts to fit in them waking up and realizing how foolish they were acting. I'm glad they kept the change in their behavior ambiguous in a way. That they did'nt say the sword in emitting some sort of radiation ...

I need to go re-watch the episode but i believe the Clone Khaless tried to trick worf into thinking he was the real thing by telling him how he was the same as the spirit that visited him as a kid. At least that is how i remember it... I was too lazy to go re-watch the episode. I think on Re-Watch this is an S- Tier Episode. Worf has a destiny with or without a sword. He is the chosen one who choose Gowron to lead the empire, saving it from duras and romulans in the klingon civil war. He found and made the Khaless Clone Emperor. He find the sword of Khaless and soo much more i want to spoil. 3rd i always find it cool that the could never find the sword in the past because the Hurq were from the gamma quadrant. I wonder if the worm hole was there and useable 1400 years ago. Finally, He still hasn't killed the Duras Kid.... FYI: they couldn't bring back the Duras Boob Sister because they died in generation ... too bad they didnt mention it. I would've loved Worf saying something about killing Duras, the Sisters, but not the kid. Worf's bad choice coming back to haunt him. If he would've haunted down the sisters and killed them... he would still be on the enterprise. Also i loved how KOR tore him a new one for letting him live.

Filthy hobbitses.... I must has it! Oh wrong franchise.

We *have* been getting a lot more episodes taking place off-station, it seems. Does help in making this Star Trek show feel larger than just the one location its premise is built upon. /shame this episode had to spend so much time in The Cave Sets again...

Thanks for um... reading... my take?

I believe the Sword of Kahless was made from his hair, not bone.

I like this one a lot. Regarding Worf's life goals/hopes/motivations etc, I feel like he's currently trying to figure it out. He's recently had a big, unexpected change of career/ship/location/friend group. That's the sort of life event where people tend to flail around for a while asking themselves wtf happens from here and what should they be trying to work toward.

I enjoyed this one. It reminds me of the movie "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" but instead of wealth it is power. Worf I know people complain about, but to me, Worf still does not know what is really next for him, and he does feel there is something bigger because of his childhood vision of Kahless. So it fits fine with me.

I enjoyed this episode way more just watching you guys enjoy it. I still think its a C for me cause the second half I just get kinda bored with all the cave sets and infighting. Like the Duras villian is so under utilized and them just off screen deciding because we can't handle the sword no one can doesn't sit right with me. Take some of the cave wandering bickering scenes out and add in other stuff with the great acting and I'd enjoy this one way more.

"One ring.....er sword to rule them all." I remembered the Duras connection but had forgotten it was the "kid" he spared back then.

Glad you guys enjoyed this, not my favorite episode or anything but I actually like this darker side of Worf we see here. Worf IS an extremely honorable person but he's also someone who has exacting standards, has been disappointed a lot by Klingon culture and has a strong sense of destiny. I like that we see that Worf isn't perfect and succumb to his own rationalizations. To me it makes him a stronger character cause we know how the vast majority of the time he takes the high road even though he is flawed like anyone else. I'm also glad it wasn't mystical as I think that would've been a cop out. I know it isn't emphasized in the story but we shouldn't ignore the fact that they are going without sleep, water and barely have any food, are getting on each others nerves, Worf has lost blood, Kor is drunk and they have an object that could sway BILLIONS of people to follow them. I don't find it unreasonable that two ordinarily likable and honorable people could turn on each other in that sort of situation and most importantly once they are out of it they both realize what they were doing was wrong and are even willing to give up not only personal glory and power but also something incredibly culturally and spiritually important for their people because they realize how dangerous it is. That's a very mature and difficult decision.

To be honest, been 10 years since I have seen this, and I like it much more than I did then,… don’t know if y’all’s attitude is infectious or if I had a bad day 10 years ago. Good reaction yall.

After directing this episode, LeVar Burton still calls Terry Farrell "Action Barbie".

Ds9’s take on the treasure of the treasure of sierra madre

Jadzia kept interrupting Kor in the opening because he told her this news was supposed to be a secret. She was trying to protect him from divulging too much information about his quest. Kor's storytelling and boasting was what got Toral involved in the first place. Jadzia wasn't being nagging or annoying here.

This is a riff off of the movie, The Treasure of Sierra Madre, where three people go to Mexico to find treasure and turn on each other due to their greed.

"We just watched season four episode NINE of deep space nine"

I do like Jadzia stunning some sense into them

This is a solid episode, one that I would label as "fun" without needing to be a comedy.

Richard Danus got the writing credit as a thank you from Ira. Richard was very welcoming to Ira on TNG even though he knew he was getting fired to make room for Ron Moore. He was visiting the set while they were working on the episode so Ira gave him credit instead of Ira taking it. This was the first episode written during season 4 when they knew Worf was on the show. All of the other episodes since the premiere they added scenes for Worf after the story was written.

This episode would benefit from a director's cut or sure. I imagine they shot the scene of them deciding to space it but it had to be cut for time.

NINE

Upon further reflection I think the bickering could have worked if it were really really funny like if Kor and Worf were roasting the shit out of each other rather than acting like two year olds. IDK something is missing at the back end.

"how did they both come to this understanding instantly?" because as I said in the comments about the trailor, both of these men who are steeped in Klingong mythology, religion, and history, expereinced a kind of "religious mania" where when finding the literal holy grail in those circumstances they both are, in that mind state, tempted by the idea of being the "new" klingon messiah, and once they are out of that immediate situation (akin to jerusalem syndrome) ad back on a runabout, they are in a different state of mind and see that if that mania could have taken over them what it would practically do to the Klingong Empire. As oppossed to something that originally united the Klingong homeworld it would tear the empire apart. By the way, some stuff about the Hurq that is established in non-show sources- The Hurg are a species that spends hundreds of years underground in kind of an interconnected fungus like form where they share information. They come out as humanoids every few centuries. They are from the Gamma Quadrant and have been around longer then the Dominion. They conquered Kronos and genetically enginnered som klingons to be their servants AFTER Kahless united the planet. Eventually they had to go back to hibernation form bu the Klingon myth is they were thrown off the planet in a rebellion. The Klingons took parts of their tech that was left over and went conquering pther worlds (before that they didnt have warp capability) and the plantes theyu conquered, their tech was a mishmas of various races they conquered which is why through trel various federation people say it seems like its all stuff that works on different prinsiples jury rigged together, because it is. After the Klingons became an empire, they became more beucratic, but there was a revival of the old religion sometime early on or before their encounters with the federation where they went back to a sort of feudal imperial system. This is a combination of lines from the show and non-canon stuff including STO which does a great job on following up on pretty much every planet from the show and giving it more backstiry (imo, the plot there is better then the actual game) There is even a plot in that game where apparently the Hurq destroyed the Tzenkethi (from the Adversary) and used their planets to hibernate and the Tzenkethi had to rebuild from ruined worlds. In the game, it is claimed that the Founders actually first tried to engineer the Hurq to be their warriors, but that failed which lead to them creating their own warrior species from scratch, the Jem'hadar. In the game, the Dominion is worried the Hurq will be waking up soon and sends a special fleet of Dominion ships to stop them, but because those planets are now Tzenkethio territory, its one of the only campaigns you can play as the Domion because the Dominion are actuall trying to stop the hurq from destroying the Tzenkethi and coming after them since after the founders attempt at controlling them failed they went through the wormhole which at the time the founders didnt know about to take over the klingons, but centuries later the Dominion is conceredn about what will happen when they come out of hibernation and take over the tzenkethi worlds and have a base to attack the dominion from in the alpha quadrant. None of this is spoilers for DS9 as this is purely a plot from STO, but generally the trek masters have said anything in STO that doesnt contradict other canon IS canon, which became problematic after the new treks which largely (but not entirely) ignored STO, so much of STO had to be recast as one timeline/dimensions out of many, and the various "universes" in trek post enterprise like the book universe or the STO timeline or others are all treated as slightly different dimensions in a multiverse like DC or maybe Marvel (which I dont know much about) Anyway, this is the first introduction of thw Hurq, and later stuff plus off canon sources do tell a consistent history of the Klingons thought its not always spelled out in the shows because they dont need to get into the weeds of all the stuff not in the show that is "soft canon." This probably isnt the kind of thing TA cares about, but some other trek fans may find it interesting. I am one who in many ways finds the fictionalized universe as interesting as the show, and I take it from that perpsective where I like to see older styuff through the lens of later established retcons and how it all works- "fanwanking" explanations vs the endless pastime of nitpickers who seem to enjoy pointing out every possible "hole" in the show where you can just use you imagination and actual spoken dialogue to cover all the nitpickers concersn would make the show unwatchable. For me, the best example of this comes from "The Adversary." Nitpickers say "wouldn't the changeling admiral have needed security codes and sent verifications ahead of time>?" Well, of course they would have and did. but since we've never bothered showing that before, showing it this time to satisy the nitpickers would have just tipped the shows hand. In general to cover any possible nitpick the show would have to be 90 percent exposition when for most things you can just use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Now, yes, it would have been helpful if in Voyager there were lines explaming "this ship was meant for long terkm deep space missions so we have industrial replicators to make new shuttles, nanited to repair hull damage, ways to easily incorporate new tech" instead of the "cant make new torpedos thing" where you have to assume they then eventually figured out how to do it and didnt mention it onscreen, but at least those kinds of things would have made Voyager being able to travel for years with very little maintenance and such would have been a bit more explainable (the whole matter that was part of our guys criticism which i will show seasons from now where the whole premise of a ship put there without Starfleet's rsources gets thrown away to make it into TNG 2.0) is a different matter. For me though, even "bad" episodes of DS9 I enjoy because I'm bought into the world and the fact I felt like this was the exact time to do serialization in trek, whereas TA specifically liked that early trek wasnt serialized because they have seen too much serialization mpre recently- I just love the world and its chsaracters in such a way where even the early season of voyager which showed "promise" I guess, since I am just not into the characters or find the world of that show especially believable, its hard to "buy in." I've always said that yes, Voyager does have a few good standalone episodes, but if you're not bought into the characters it just feels like, "ok, these could be fine standalone plots of any sci fi show" but they're just good individual stories in a world I wasnt bought into.

My Precious.

I’m sorta meh on the episode, but Kor’s story telling and conversation with Worf in the hook are great.

Rewatching this one with the gents, I feel like there’s about 10-12 minutes just… missing in this episode, even beyond a couple-minute scene where Worf and Kor sort of realize, “What the fuck are we doing?” And it’s the space in between when they escape the chamber with the Sword of Kahless to Kor and then Worf growing homicidally ambitious. They just seem to go instantly from 0 to 100, but with missing progressions in between to make their extreme actions feel credible (to me anyway).

I've always liked this one a lot. I love the sort of story where our heroes track down clues and pursue some ancient/historical mystery (even "The Chase", except for the very last bit about DNA) How did Kor and Worf both come to an understanding about the sword at the end? I assume you have time to reflect while recovering from a phaser blast lol

This is the first episode written for the season where the writer’s knew Worf was going to be a cast member of the series. The other episodes before were already written before Michael Dorm joined the cast.

I definitely thought about Indiana Jones when they got to that part!

I can't say I don't like this one, but the final part which is all bickering wears real thin real quick. It needs more. Having said that all y'all's reasons for liking this are great points. I'm glad you liked it so throughly because it made for much more fun than just watching it on a dvd. That said Blood Oath is an S, this is a B-.

We have many of the same writers of prime TNG. I would hope these guys can remember their own fucking episodes and get the continuity right! New Power Rankings: 1) Blue Lightning 2) When the Defiant blows stuff up 3) When the Defiant does not blow stuff up 4) Pulsar 5) Nebula

You know, once DS9 has been done and dusted... I recommend you watch a video by Lazerpig about the Defiant and why he hates it. He's funny, its clear he's not being completely serious... but he does raise some good points. After going on a massive tangent about something completely different, as is his way.

Better rewatch Rightful Heir. They did talk about Worf’s childhood vision of Kahless.

When this aired a large part of the audience, or at least the fan audience, weren't that familiar with TOS (all my friends loved DS9, none of them had seen any TOS), as that was twenty years ago, long before most of us were born. So Kor seemed like just another random Klingon and nothing that would have been a big reveal. A lot of us were just tired of Klingon mythology episodes at this point, which is why it has a bit of a rap as being a bit dull.

I was initially dreading this watch, but I'm super glad you both were legit hype for it. Definitely enjoyed this on a re-watch. Thanks, Trekbros.

Overall, I agree better than Blood Oath; good but not great. A little too predictable, but John Colicos as Kor was better in this episode. Nice callback to Redemption in TNG. I did like that Worf was shown to be flawed in his perception of himself and the sword. The sword was like a stand-in for gold-fever. I'd go B+ but probably not higher.

Nice "9" dub there, Josh.

Only two episodes to go on, but I think there's a strong argument to make that LeVar Burton's work as a director, strictly speaking of DS9, is superior to Frakes so far. His work just feels more dynamic and suits the show better, IMO. A lot of strong performances in his two episodes as well.

Loved this. As Klingon episodes go, it had it all: mysticism, backstory and lore, and some good old fashioned Klingon bone crunching. I actually got quite emotional listening to Kor reminisce about Kang and Koloth, and the look Dax gave him as he recounted his dream was a lovely, tender moment.

All I can say is that this is one of the Star Trek episodes I've been eagerly waiting to see you guys react to.

I don’t have an issue with the episode itself, its just in the midst of so many different things, some binges I want a different episode

Let's fucking go!!!!

Civilisations will sometimes adopt a term or name and give it another meaning by association. The Hurq were outsiders who plundered the Klingon home world all those centuries ago. That act left such a deep impression on the Klingon people that the species name eventually became the term for "outsider" in their language. There are examples for this in real life too. The term vandal, as in vandalism, is derived from the Vandals. A Germanic tribe that sacked Rome in 455 CE. Because of their deeds and reputation their name was adopted into many languages to mean "destructive behavior" over time.

"Yeah, but who cares, he tells it well!" - Chief O'Brien summarizing Josh's feelings on 'Genesis'

So I was starting the episode not realizing I was on season 2, another reactor will be watching blood oathh next week, I saw Kor and just pressed play and had to go back.

LoL! I legit was opening the app to check on this very episode when the notification dropped. :)