UNCUT - Cold Fire (VOY S2E10) | Star Trek Journey 385

People are just as stupid now as they were then. Add multi year gaps between seasons, even though we can binge shows people are going to forget stuff. Recaps can be annoying but most shows would lose audience, money, and get canceled much sooner with them. They can’t afford to make too many shows that only the top 10% smartest humans can understand.

I hate Tuvok. WORST VULCAN EVER. Watch these emotional outbursts? F-you bad Vulcan. The writers and Russ never understood Vulcans. I remember an interview with a producer as Voyager came out . . .they said Spock was half human whereas Tuvok is full Vulcan and therefore less emotional. NO! That is NOT how it was with Spock. It was regularly said that Spock tried to out-vulcan others Vulcans because he was trying to prove himself as full Vulcan. Vulcans suppress their emotions so they are not controlled by them because their passions are so strong. They are not emotionless. They don't hate emotions, they just have strict boundaries. The TNG 90's era never understood that and Tuvok sucks.

well it was better than Tattoo

Guys, we science nerds aren’t upset when stuff happens in sci fi that isn’t explainable with science. Almost everything in Star Trek is not fully scientifically accurate or possible, but pulp science fiction is ok with that. Kes and others having “psychokinetic abilities” is cool, for sure, and worth exploring. What we science nerds hate is when Star Trek takes actual, real, proven science and totally misrepresents it. Like, if you want the story to have X, just make up new technobabble to have X. Don’t use neutrinos or dark matter or evolution or other established concepts from the real world and make them into something totally different. That’s worse than fiction - it’s misinformation.

Yeah, that recap has always been pretty jarring. Doesn't bother me all that much, but it is weird. Wouldn't put this in D tier, but it's a low C for me. There's some moderately Kes/Ocampa lore, Tuvok the tutor is cool, and I do love the horror elements. Kes' scream after microwaving Tuvok was like 60% of the horror of that scene. Torres and Tuvok being suspended over engineering was creepy as well. Also don't know if you clocked it, but Suspiria's creepy voice was done by Majel Barrett. So yeah the body horror and creepy imagery are pretty memorable. Unfortunately so much of the rest of the episode is honestly just pretty boring.

When Tanis asked Kes out on a date when they were all having dinner I fully expected Neelix to reach over and hit him............100% ;)

Another poor season 2 episode. We think back to the great speech and what Janeway said about finding the other Caretaker and THIS is what we get? I think this is the first solid suggestion that may we won't quite be living up the promise her speech had

I put off watching this episode for a while because judging from the comments and thumbnail I thought it was going to suck, but no, it was decent (I've watched the show several times but I don't remember specific episodes). Kind of a standard Voyager episode, but being a Kes focused episode brought it down a bit because I've never cared much for her character.

I don't think I've seen this one fully before. The story could be a bit for snappy but the horror elements at the end were great and the score was amazing!

Also, with syndicated TV in those days it was up to the local broadcasters to air episodes however they could. Most shows (even TNG) would be aired out of order or not at all (preemption). That said, I have no idea why the producers thought all viewers should be on the same page for this particular episode.

So no one on Voyager would have a privacy issue with Tuvok and Kes listening to crew thoughts whenever they like?

Quote of the day, "Whataya doin?!"

Interesting note from Memory Alpha that Cliff Bole knew Gary Graham but thought the was very challenged by role. Cliff also said the episode suffered a problem of pacing and could have used a little more action. More fun facts. The naked guy from Engineering is also Garrett Wang's stand-in and photo double. Memory Alpha also notes that the female Caretaker was originally a get out of jail card that if the show didn't last, they could use her to send the crew home. This episode is alright. There are some interesting moments, and I didn't mind them running into the female Nacene in season 2. Some people hate Kes as a character but I always liked her. I think this episode helps to show that the actress was capable of more.

This one would be a D.

The intro is there because writers think their audience is moronic. Or, it was a studio thing and was added in post because the studio thinks the audience is moronic.

Last time I saw this one was in network tv. I just assumed the clunky recap was a broadcast thing and not part of the actual run time. Wild

I think the opening recap is stupid. I do not mind "Previously on X" as reminders for plot points one might miss from years ago. Also, having worked retail for sometime, I an quite aware that an individual person can be a genius, but people in general are dumb and unobservant as rocks. 4 seperate signs saying Self-Checkout is debit or credit only, but people still get surprised.

“Story by” can mean elements from a submitted story were used but the writing staff reworked it. They might change the story quite a bit. I don’t know the case here but for example the guy who got story by credit (I forget his name) could have submitted a story about a dangerous subspace alien and a telepathic race - then the writing staff could rework it into something like this, tying it to Kes and the caretakers mate.

There is no spoon.

That Tanis guy really drained all Alex's energy. To recharge, next episode needs to be a blast.

1:00 You guys rewrote the episode and made it better! Good job!

Stop constantly fearing that Voyager is suddenly going to turn bad 'cause a few people prior you starting the show didn't like it. Seasons 1-3 are a very mixed bag like TNG and DS9 before it which leads into Seasons 4-7 being consistently great.

Guy's, they have to say the flowers are dead because blind people who are just listening to the show can't see, duh.

Suspiria was originally created in the pilot as a potential game changer for the Voyager series if the format was not working and it was necessary to bring the crew quickly back home to the Alpha quadrant for more traditional storytelling.

I really don't like the intro narration to this episode, and I bet it's 100% (Sorry Josh) due to network execs demanding a bigger recap.

You're nowhere near the floor of this season. I'm not even sure you're on the chair yet.

You guys must have literal memory banks for brains. I appreciate recaps! I can't tell you how many times I watch a new seaosn of a show and five minutes in I'm going, "wait, why don't I remember this?" Regardless, it's actually hilarious to watch you guys get so triggered by it!

I read that Gary Graham wasn't happy with his experience in this episode. He thought the feeling on set was tense, and akin to midterm exams!

The guest actor didn’t bother me as much as you. But he wasn’t great.

lol 4 takes read...

My guess about the opening is they were almost done with the episode and thought the dialog wasn't good enough, so added it at the last minute. Much of the country didn't even have the channel yet when the premiere episode aired, since the network was brand new. So a large portion of the audience probably hadn't seen it. Not an excuse, just think this is why.

The "don't get too goofy" originated with Gene Roddenberry. He wanted everything to be grounded in science - "no fantasy" was his mandate. He rewrote Shore Leave so it would not just be a planet where your imagination comes true but there was really an alien species behind it all, manufacturing the stuff.

Overall, this is another C episode for me,. Gary Graham always seemed like a passable actor to me, but with limited range. You're right - they should have traded roles between him and Norman Large. I did like the Tuvok scenes, and I especially loved the melting Tuvok - very nice surprising visual.

Josh, what I meant was they didn’t stick the landing in the climax with Suspiria. I just thought the way they resolved it with Kes doing the mind thing with Tanis which affected Suspiria and then Janeway showing mercy was a little too easy after all that buildup in the show. There was too much exposition and not enough action.

We dodge a bullet Gary Graham (Tanis) was considered for one of the final choices for the role of "Captain Sisko" on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (1993) and the role of "Captain Janeway" on Star Trek: Voyager (1995); if they couldn't find the right Female. Thank you Kate Mulgrew.

I saw this before Caretaker

Q has been around from the very beginning of this era so i never understand the mindset that fantasy elements were a hokey relic of TOS. Even as one of those people who picks apart Trek's science gaffes or the stupidity of Ocampa reproduction, I'm all for aliens being allowed to have psychic powers. I was excited to see Kes slowly gain powers over the course of this series and basically be like a RPG character leveling up, with this episode serving as a potential preview for how she might be at the end of the series.

It's ironic that the recap at the beginning, which is meant to prep you for the episode, threw you guys off so much! Seems like sometimes you overthink things!

Yes if I am being my tough crowd self I can throw out 62% of Trek episodes for better things and rewrite another 20%, but if I am just here to watch Trek with people, this is Trek.

I don't really care if they introduce fantasy elements, super powers are well established in Star Trek and the Ocampa got a nod to their powers all the way back in Caretaker. What bugs me is when they try to explain something rooted in reality and get that wrong. Like in Elogium, where the writers tried to give us the actual background for the Ocampa reproductive "cycle" but failed at 3rd grade biology so miserably the species should have died off. I know you guys won't stuff like that influence a rating and that's fair. But if the science in scifi is bad enough you can't "fiction" your way out of it, it's worth at least raising an eyebrow.

I love Gary Graham! 🤨 He was the human character in Alien Nation the series. I remember his character being like Riggs, to an Alien “Murtaugh”

Best episode, no, still Trek worth yes

I really like the idea that the 2nd CareTaker is a Act 5 reveal. I gotta now rewrite this episode. Because I like it too, but DS9 was really the only show that held reveals until final acts. This would have been so much better as a "Kes finds Ocompians and is taught new powers as VOY learns its reputation is an unwelcome one." Type thing where you then get the rug pull of OH MY GOD, it's the other Caretaker!

I tell myself however bad an episode is, at least it's not the bonding.

Pretty average episode but that 5 seconds of hard boiled Tuvok is burned into memory.

The main guest actor isn't a bad actor - but this was a bad role for him. Maybe miscast, or bad direction, or a bad script or maybe he was just having a bad day. Because yeah, he wasn't great here. Maybe just a paycheque to him.

There's something off about this episode. It didn't have a coherent theme and all the character moments fell flat. There were some pretty great opportunities for good moments, but they just didn't include them.

Since I was in the reverse camp of liking the beginning I'll explain: I thought the opening half with Tuvok mentoring Kes was equally parts charming and horrifying. But once we had the reveal the lady caretaker was twirling her mustache I was basically like "fuck this." The most uninteresting path you can go down is a mundane action revenge plot. Added to that the horror aspect of her being a little girl didn't work. It felt cliche and it didn't compare favorably with Tuvok's head being boiled. It comes down to my pet peeve being when we meet a one dimensional alien who is hard headed, or bent on revenge being the least entertaining path to go down.

Neil Breen lmao

The only thing I can think of is the Previously On was to also fire up loyal viewers that the Star Trek Voyager was meeting the other Caretaker and going home this episode

Once you said "Neil Breen" it was over for me. I just kept imagining Tanis kneeling with Suspiria next to a Ferrari. "I cannot believe you've done this!" This is a weird episode. It feels like a grab bag of ideas Brannon Braga wanted to try. It's the Shades of Gray of his script notebook. But melting Tuvok's head is right up there with Troi cake as an indelible Star Trek image, so I can't just pass on this episode. It's too delightfully nuts.

I agree the beginning of the episode opening was really clunky. Plus it was borderline insulting. I didnt like the way it assumed you need a recap.

Neil Breen! Hahaha. I've always thought of that actor as Great Value Billy Bob Thornton. But he really does look like Neil Breen!

I think that's overall fair Josh. Sometimes an episode isn't phenomenal, but it's just damn fun. While I prefer Picard-tier acting and inferno pen writing, other times let's just chill and relax with some heartwarming horror.

I do remember Josh really digging the stuff with Odo on the Founders' home planet. I think Changelings qualify as one of the more truly "alien" aliens on Trek.

I forgot this episode had that jarring recap opening. A lot of these I am rewatching with you for the first time in years and so even I thought it was the wrong episode for a second.

Man some stinkers coming up. I can't wait #ninnersupremacy