UNCUT - Persistence of Vision (VOY S2E8) | Star Trek Journey 381
Comments (52)
"Because I can" ... the real motivation behind any bully. Completely believable.
Just wait until you get to stressed Janeway missing out on coffee for weeks... And you didn't catch the simplest explanation: The aliens told them right before everything started that they will be tested (for why they want to go though their space). Seems like they just passed the exam. I always found season 2 to be the weakest season of Voyager (except for one episode which is my favorite VOY episode of them all), with the first season coming in second. But since I rewatch all those episodes now with you, I really find them way better than I did twenty years ago.
This one is a C for me. Nothing particularly wrong with it, but I just felt bored. Season 2 is my least favourite because so much of it is either outright bad, or just very forgettable and dull. At least 1 of those bad eps is entertaining. Of course, there is definitely some top tier stuff, but they're the exception to the rule. But hey, at least Kira was glad when this episode released and she was no longer the only Trek character to have sexual fantasies about a cardboard cutout. As for the alien and whether he was ever there, it's hard to say for sure. Did he turn off the monitor, or did he merely make Kes think he did? Was he really not there at the end, and were the ships just an illusion, or did he simply make them and himself disappear and skedaddle before they could see through the illusion. Presumably internal and external sensors would tell the true story once the crew was no longer affected by the illusions, but it's not explained either way. Also, of all the recurring holoprograms in Trek, Janeway's might be the least interesting IMHO. Anyway, it's mid.
Im so ready for season 2 to be over, its really mid... cant wait for the later seasons. I dont think the alien was ever there, he is more of a presence, like Negilum, who manifests as avatars, ships etc...
These voyager episodes remind me now how I felt back in the day jumping between DS9 and then Voyager . Depressed
Oh great Janeway in a holonovel…. Oy vey
Something that just crossed my mind is since Vulcans live like 200+ years even if the trip takes the full 70 years to get back Tuvok should probably still have a good little bit of life left to live
One note, I'd just say, never feel bad about glazing an episode you enjoyed. It's part of the fun, though I get it, dissecting flaws can feel more intellectually stimulating. I'd say Voyager is my favorite sci-fi comfort show (this isn't to say there aren't staggeringly intense episodes - speaking holistically). For that, its sitcom counterpart has to be Friends. TNG is the golden classic, for that, it has to be Seinfeld. DS9 is the odd duck out, but stunningly executed. For that, hmm... actually, Arrested Development could fit quite well. Such sharp wit both shows have, and intense continuity. Bojack Horseman might fit better, can't say, never seen it.
So at the beginning, you were enjoying Neelix and Paris having... a bonding?
Coffee is my favorite ice cream flavor also!
I liked this episode much more than the hook lead me to believe. I don't really care for the "because I can" villain reason but yeah that wasn't important in this ep. I feel like writers usually just use that because they are too lazy and not good enough to come up with a real reason for the villain to do their evil stuff besides I need them to do this for my story.
It's rare that a mustache-twirling "because I'm evil muwhahaha" reason works, but I think in this episode it does.
Comparing Spock to Tuvok because they are both Vulcans and expecting the same abilities is like comparing Picard to Broccoli and expecting the same.
Scott McDonald, it's not him lol. Hold pictures of both up, "It's the same picture" lol.
The Score elevates it to a A- for me.
In 'Skin of Evil' we have a malicious being who does it 'because he can' and that motivation is foundational to the story. In 'Persistence of Vision' it's a throwaway line to justify everything you just watched. The writers wanted to do hallucinations (which is cool) but without bothering to figure out a justification for it. It's so lazy. "It was an alien, don't think about it" Which is why this episode makes no sense. Motivations and goals matter. Internal consistency matters. Mystery episodes only work if they are solvable or retrospectively understandable - there has to be a logical reasoning driving the decisions you just watched (even if it was unknowable at the time). You guys thought this was a 'ship in the bottle' episode, and loved the misdirect. But if you get enough episodes like this where the foundation is just a shoulder shrug it stops being a mystery to solve, and you stop looking for a foundational reasoning because the writers no longer need to include one. In the 'take a penny, leave a penny' of star trek episodes, this one grabs a fistful, and leaves nothing behind. It banks on you thinking there's a logical underpinning to the mystery since Trek is great at that, but nope. And that's why I hate it. What do we suspend disbelief for? Did these hallucinations reveal some interesting philosophical take, or advance any character arcs? Not really. Tom tells off his father and Torres bangs Chakotay. That's really weak. You didn't need any of this for that.
I head cannon that the villain did have a deeper reason but didn't monologue it out to his potential victims.
A fun episode, i have no complaints. I give it B.
Definitely didn’t remember anything about this episode. Not bad. B
Great Voyager episode, great reaction. One hundred percent. But I don't think B'Elanna had real sex like Beverly. It was all in her head. Remember, they all froze in place the moment the alien got to them. B'Elanna was still in engineering all this time. Just like Chakotay & Janeway froze in the turbolift. Although, if the alien wasn't really on Voyager, how exactly did fake-'Neelix' manage to turn off the screen with the Doctor?
I love how TA are enjoying so many Voyager episodes, not least because of how much it must infuriate that 'DS9 is great, Voyager is crap' group...
one hundred percent.
Michael Cumpsty (Lord Burleigh) more recently played head of Lumon security on Severance.
I like the element that actively resisting the illusions allowed them to get you as much as giving in to them did. Tom told off his 'dad' while not believing he was real, B'Elanna had a tumble with 'Chakotay' while almost believing that he was: both those interactions hooked them deeper into the alien fucker's control. Lots of great details and fun moments in this episode.
Didn't remember this episode at all. Quite enjoyed it, for me the story takes ideas from old legends and myths, such as the psirens from old sailor tales. Good to see Josh noticed that Voyager didn't seem that damaged from a combat encounter. Sure that'll never be an issue again going forward...
The weird alien from Persistence of Vision... what's *his* story? I appreciated the RLM reference, Alex.
but WHATS going on on the fourth floor!!??
I’m getting Jane Eyre vibes, especially with the piano playing
this episode finally made me care about kes!! i love her now
I love this episode but also laughed and reminisced about your reaction to 'The Game'. I almost wish KES and The Doctor had the exact same lines as Wesley and Ashley Judd in that scene
Mmmm....Ashley Judd.... 🤤
Josh, it is not polite to ogle a lady's pips.
I think the pips just seem large because Kate Mulgrew is smaller than the other captains.
I’ve done more research and I think (if they are the same size which I still think they may not be) they look larger than TNG pips because of the difference of how much space they take up and the more bright color on the turtleneck undershirt, vs the black jacket collar in TNG
So glad you guys are enjoying Voyager. :) Cant wait for mooorree!
It's funny how the writing gave you guys Misdirects, like Ship in a Bottle. This is literally the set up to THE BIG GOODBYE (stressed Capt., holodeck, meeting new aliens) and when I think about this episode I always like how great a Kes episode it is... but really it's probably the strongest ensemble episode of VOY so far. ... oh wait, I forgot about Twisted. Sorry, this is 2nd best.
Voyager sex scoreboard Janeway and her beautiful large PiPs score but it is a bit weak score. SCOREBOARD Paris 2 Chakotay 1 Neelix 1 Kes 1 Harry 1 Torres 1 +1 new Jayneway 1 +1 new GUESTS Telepathic Botha +2 new at least (or +0 new if he wasn’t there) DETAILS Complicated calls on this ep. We count real characters wop-a-lottas even with imaginary or holo-partners. So we know the Captain had a vision vwaa-boom-boom AND Torres takin’ some facial tattoos way down in the Klingon Ridges. Now real Chakotay and Mark do not score as it was not in world real them, also Lord Burleigh and Janeway does not seem to have done the Rom-Com Jane Austin Victorian (and boring) bit engaging in amorous congress. Now, if you saw and could assume some other scores state it and justify it in the replies.
Great reaction! I've always enjoyed this one. I particularly like the deeper look we get at Janeway and how she's missing Mark and feeling guilty for being 'unfaithful'. I always like it when we see the characters thinking about life back home.
I also hate the Vulcan bowl cuts. T’Pring had long lustrous hair. But maybe it’s more practical logical zer0 hair products?
I guess it doesn’t make that much sense like at first he’s just messing with Janeway but maybe because she’s the leader and maybe her mind intrigues him? I don’t know. I think he’s just really powerful so he likes to fuck with people and Kes is actually his equal? Mentally speaking.. I was joking recently that she’s Kes Skywalker! Tuvok is her Obi wan Neelix is jar jar. 😆 Tom is Han..
What’s up with the Kes body horror? This and elogium? It’s hard to watch especially on pretty little Kes’ face. 🤢
This reminded me of the TOS episode And the Children Shall Lead when the crew each different illusions due to children's powers from the Gorgon. And this episode is almost as bad as that one. C- rating for me. The Botha were more interesting than the Gorgon, but not a lot more.
Fuck, yeah. Let's Get Wierd! 🖖
You touch the sandwich, you take it, Janeway!! What are you teaching the crew here? Otherwise, fun episode. I like the "is it the ship or is it me" genre of Star Trek episodes, and we get some good character moments out of this one. And I have great respect for the "How do we end this? I dunno, I guess they all disappear" moment. I'm assuming the Bothans had to go steal Death Star plans.
Yeah the way she put it back on the plate was kinda gross, I noticed that.
Another interesting reminder of how episodes and premises 'hit different' depending on the viewer. You guys and others really like this one a lot, one Patron giving it an A+, and I'm over here like "Yeah, I liked it, it was solid, but it just didn't do much for me." This is a B episode for me, but I'm not sure there's anything that really 'bothers me' about it. I suppose it might have been more interesting for me if they'd narrowed the scope and just let the hallucinations go further and deeper for one or a few characters, perhaps letting us get deeper into their characters/backstories, but on the other hand the variety of seeing a lot of them was mildly interesting as well. I'm not sure why this one doesn't 'hook me'.
B is a good grade :P
The hallucinations here reminded me a little bit of the ones in TNG when the Traveler sends the Enterprise an absurd distance away from their galaxy and the crew is seeing stuff like Tasha's cat, Worf's targ, Picard sees his mom, etc.
Apparently the Lord character is played by Michael Cumpsty. The resemblance is striking, though.
(posted mid-episode, you looked it up yourself too)
Great episode chilling
Lol voyager