UNCUT - Cathexis (VOY S1E13) | Star Trek Journey 361

DARMOK MENTIONED

Regardless of series I have always been a fan of the creepy/mystery episodes of Trek and this one was one of my favorites the first time I saw it. It's hard to judge it when you see such an episode for the second time because the whole core of a mystery episode is that it doesn't hit the same when you know the resolution.

C because it feels like they just filmed their rehearsal/ first take without trying to act yet. Like running their lines. And the director was like good enough. The story is not bad. I know they usually are great actors so idk what happened here.

B as a B can be.

"Regardless of how we feel about them episode to episode, I just love Star Trek." Yes! That is the attitude! Never lose that, I like you guys because you're not nit-picky whiners, you're good at big picture stuff. There are certainly things to nit-pick and have a whine about at times, but you don't get bogged down in that. Keep the love in there, always! 🖖

When this episode first aired I fell asleep about half way through. Made it all the way this time but would rather have fallen asleep again. And this episode is definitely not the floor.

Braga &Menosky = Weird Ass Shit

Wow, I'm surprised a lot of people don't rate this one that much. Was fourth place on my first viewing top 10 list. Still likely top 10 now.

DOCTOR: Mr Tuvok has a serious concussion but it's nothing i can't handle. Commander Chakotay is brain dead. 1 minute later JOSH: Is Tuvok braindead too? ALEX: I dunno Oy vey i thought Alzheimers didnt kick in until at least 50. I'm kidding i'm kidding jesus

I think with Voyager, "the bar" is set at "solidly good". There are episodes that land well above that. And there are episodes that unfortunately fall terribly short. But the majority of episodes are at that mark or above. Consistency is one of the things that Voyager does best, regularly giving one good episode after another. Loved your reaction to the twist in this episode. I love how this one takes what could be a very predictable, formulaic story, and adds a new dynamic to it. You have to admit, that was a bit of a "wow" moment for you both. Not huge - but it was definitely there. Kinda surprised you guys were so intrigued by Janeway's holodeck program. I thought it was a bit odd. As others have pointed out, it's unusual that you didn't recognize the actress who played the housekeeper. It was fun to see her in a different role!

I'm not a Neelix hater. I actually like the guy, and don't get where all of the hate is coming from. Even his jealousy and other faults makes sense to me because he's like the down to earth foil to our "enlightened" main cast. He doesn't have all of his stuff figured out yet, like jealousy and other insecurities. And that's fine. He's the normal unenlightened dude. That being said though, on this rewatch, I have noticed that Neelix sort of dismisses and gaslights Kes whenever she talks about her telepathic powers. First in "Time and Again," and again here. He keeps treating her like she's crazy for bringing it up, or she's just imagining things. I'm not a big fan of that. Also, while I can totally understand Neelix being jealous of Tom (I don't agree with it, but I understand where that comes from. Normal people act like that all the time if they are insecure over their partner, so it is at least realistic.) Neelix's jealousy in this episode is WAY over the top. Getting jealous because your girl psychicly sensed a presence in the room is beyond ridiculous, even for the most jealous people I can think of. You know? I wonder if Kes's telepathic powers make Neelix feel insecure with her? Neelix seems most comfortable with Kes when he's "in control" so to speak. By that I mean, he seems to want to default back to a teacher/student dynamic with her, or a place where he's the caretaker, and she's being taken care of. Her telepathic powers are beyond Neelix's understanding, so he doesn't know how to help her with them, or support her in exploring them. He just wants to teach her the things he already knows, or keep her safe and protect her from danger. Back to that "higher up" or "in control" position. So whenever she brings up her telepathic powers, he always changes the subject back to something more comfortable for him, and tries to return everything to status quo. This is technically narcissistic behavior, but I wouldn't call Neelix a narcissist at all, just insecure. But narcissism is a psychosis form of insecurity. So it makes sense that some people's insecurity can get expressed as narcissistic traits, like gaslighting and needing to feel like they have a dominant role in a relationship. I also feel like Neelix feels like he has to be "useful" or he's worthless. That's why he set up a mess hall so soon, and constantly plays the role of the knowledgeable Delta Quadrant guide even if he doesn't really know all that much about what the crew needs to know. He's constantly trying to overcompensate and convince the crew that he is of use. Almost as if he's afraid they'll kick him off the ship if they find out he's not. That's also probably why Kes's telepathic powers seem to make Neelix uncomfortable. He doesn't feel like he can be of any use there since he knows nothing about them. So he shuts them down, and immediately tries to "be useful" to Kes by offering her other information he has that is unrelated. Maybe that's why people hate Neelix so much? Maybe they pick up on his immaturity and insecurity? What's funny though is a lot of people also criticize characters like Kes or the entire TNG crew as being "too perfect" because they are meant to be good examples. You want to watch people handle jealousy properly? Go watch Riker handle that dude from The Price. But with Neelix we finally get a character who is not a good example. He's a character that struggles with insecurity. Which according to these people's logic with "too perfect" characters, you think would make Neelix more appealing and more realistic. But instead, people hate the guy because he's insecure and gets jealous. Maybe these people actually DO want characters who are a good example? You know? I think I just realized why I never had a problem with Neelix. If you know anything about attachment theory at all, Neelix's form of insecurity is the Anxious Preoccupied attachment style. That's also the attachment style I used to be. So when I watched this show before over 10 years ago, I saw stuff like Neelix's jealousy and overprotectiveness and constantly trying to prove himself as worthy as normal, because I did those same things. Anxious Preoccupieds do everything from a place of fear of being abandoned. And I also know from experience that the strategies they do to try to get closer to people, and secure those people in their lives so they CAN'T abandon them, REALLY annoy people who are not of that style. Especially people who are one of the avoidant types, either Fearful Avoidant, or Dismissive Avoidant, because they resist feeling like closeness is being forced upon them. But even if you are secure, those strategies rub you the wrong way because they are so obviously insecure. Ironically, Anxious Preoccupieds end up pushing away and annoying the hell out of the very people they are trying to impress, gain the respect of, or keep close. In this case, I guess that was most of Voyager's audience. I didn't mean to turn this into a Neelix essay, but here we are.

I feel so vindicated after watching this reaction! I've only heard of people disliking this episode, but I always liked it quite a bit, especially the suspense during the middle and the reveal that it was Chakotay. YES!

There was one other Robert Hewitt Wolfe solo script that you missed, and IMO it's the best one: THE WIRE! As for Ira, I would agree that his track record with solo scripts is not great, and I think as a co-writer *at this point in time* he's all over the map. I obviously can't tell you anything about the future.

B sure. C at the lowest. I can't fathom D or E. Also did you notice that the housekeeper lady was the Romulan Captain from Face of the Enemy and Contagion?

Don't worry. We love Star Trek too, Josh.

Another apt ancient Earth sports analogy would be "7th inning stretch". Have I mentioned that I can simulate Star Trek: Voyager episodes in my head with nothing but the script?

Also Alex was right about the Q episodes. "True Q" is the episode where the girl discovers she has Q powers. "Q-Less" is the DS9 episode with Vash.

I'm a patron who likes both DS9 and Voyager. I just haven't been leaving any Voyager takes because I've only watched the show through one time, and that was over 10 years ago. So I don't remember much of the early seasons. This episode in particular I completely forgot existed. When I saw the episode title, I thought it was another episode from season 2 or 3.

I love the bickering between Josh and Alex at the start, they have become brothers. If memory serves I also fell asleep during this one back in the day. This episode was all exposition.

I tried to rewatch this one three times this week and I kept falling asleep. It has some kind of anti memory thing going on like some kind of Dr who villain.

I wish I had more to say, but this one is just very, very mid to me. C and pretty forgettable TBH.

We get to see the whole cast, unfortunately Neelix is a bit annoying. 30 years since I last saw this one and I didn't remember the whole gist of it. So just don't watch it for another 30 years.

Better than I remember, still just okay. The holo-novel doesn't really pull me

EMH: "There are someone else's brainwaves imposed on them." Me: "Oh, it's Chakotay's katra." I guess I'll give it points for being laughable rather than depressing.

This episode once it got going I did remember as the Chakotay disembodied story. It's fine, I think it's a C, especially on rewatch. Voyager can do a lot better and worse during its run so I don't think I could say it was any higher or lower.

I am absolutely howling at Alex’s impression of B’Elanna pressing a pillow over Chakotay’s face

D-D-D-Dumb. Bout all i can say.

Oh, guys, this is NOT the floor. There are DASTARDLY episodes coming on Voyager. Treacherous! Abhorrent! Embarrassing! Stay tuned! :)

This one gets a C. Maybe C+.

Doncha know, every sick bay in the fleet has a camera pointed directly at a wall. Also, Chakotay's spirit animal hopefully has access to a spiritual car wash after Chakotay was finally forced into inhabiting Neelix. Ick.

but what was on the fourth floor of the manor???

I enjoyed this one. As far as bottle episodes go, this was one of the better ones.

I’m guessing the holonovel was not a murder mystery but rather a melodrama/romance inspired at least in part by Jane Eyre. So, Captain Janeway was gooning in the holodeck, just like Harry did with Freya in the Beowulf scenario.

not the flute that plays any time something native american is mentioned

Cathexis -- the concentration of mental energy on one particular person, idea, or object. An apt title given that it's Chakotay's mental energy trying to save the ship from going in to the nebula.

Not a favorite

I really enjoy all the character interactions in this episode! It seems like Tom Paris is up to mischief, but he's not. Then B'Elanna. Tom's nostalgic moment which I enjoyed. I like Janeways Holo Novel. And the storyline keeps you guessing. Another solid Voyager episode for me! To be honest I really enjoy most Voyager episodes because I love the main characters!!

I now understand the TA DS9/VOY schism better with Josh's explination of stripping away the veneer of a good episode and still having the comfort aspect on Voyager, but not on DS9. I think you might gain that on a subsequent series rewatch, but I appreciate the context in the here and now.

I think I enjoyed this one more on rewatch. There are a lot of little details and hints that are fun to spot, that you miss the first time.

C+ rating for copying some TOS and TNG episode ideas too much. The + for the twists.

Has anyone done a fanfic with Alex and Josh as Captain and First officer of a Starfleet ship? Their comments sometimes, they make me think of some sort of parody skit. I have fun thinking of what they would do if they were in command. 😅

Shit i think i'm turning into Alex, after giving the previous one E and loving this. God, i hope that doesn't mean i'll hate The Undiscovered Country from now on lol.

Michael Cumpsty, who played Lord Burleigh in the holodeck teaser, more recently played the head of Lumon security in Severance.

Interesting that multiple people in the takes assumed that Chakotay could have just "typed out a message" and erased the whole plot. I definitely interpreted it as he had to learn to interpret what he was "seeing/sensing" in his disembodied state, and it might be a lot harder to do something as complex as language rather than the energy equivalent of flipping switches or what have you. I also like that we're coming back to something that deals with 'neural energy' after Emanations

I understand this is generally an unpopular episode with a lot of Trekkies, but i love it. A!

I keep forgetting about episodes like this. Voyager has so many of them. Another bland and pointless C. It's... fine.. I guess...

I love this episode. No long essay on why. I just do.

I don't think this one is terrible like some people do, but it is fairly forgettable. Probably a low C for me. And Janeway doesn't go to the holodeck to play out a power fantasy. She lives one every day. Instead she opts to put HERSELF back in the kitchen. Gotta maintain balance I guess. Seriously though, that is probably the holoprogram I find most boring in all of Trek. Maybe a couple more contenders like the spa in Cost of Living, and granted there might be some murder mystery later in the program, or perhaps a horny ghost if Crusher had a hand in writing the program, but it just feels like a dull choice to me. Paris' Sandrine's program is fine as a place to kick back and relax, play some pool, flirt with the holocharacters. Dixon Hill isn't really my speed, though I can appreciate the appeal. Just never understood the interest in this program to Janeway. So conversely to some, I found the possession aspect of this episode far more interesting. I like how they played up everyone's suspicions. Neelix asking the Doctor to "dissect" one of the crew always makes me laugh in much the same way as back in The Dauphin when the old woman tells Pulaski to kill a patient for having a flu. Overkill much. As others have pointed out, it makes no sense that Chakotay would be able to carry out complex tasks and never attempted to directly communicate the danger of going back to the nebula, or his current condition in an attempt to help them put him back into his own body. Just a massive plot hole that strains suspension of disbelief. I know I called Time and Again the worst of the season due to being boring(and it was) and Parallax wasn't great apart from some character moments that elevated it, but I will say both were better written than this. Given there are IMO 2 excellent and 1 average episode left, this is arguably the worst episode of the season. Not as boring as T&A, but the writing is worse. As for the Komar cookies recipe, don't ask me to make sense of it. It always puzzled me that non corporeal entities would have a cookie recipe to begin with. I guess Komar cookies had a ring to it and that was excuse enough.

Great seeing Carolyn Seymour in a brief guest appearance.

I either completely missed this episode the first time around or an alien took over my mind because I have no memory of it. All in all, it was a decent mystery episode. B

This one was just okay to me. It might be a little on the lower end in my option, but not bad. Just found myself sitting through it with no feeling..

The discussion at the end showed a lot of Star Trek fatigue from both of you. Maybe two Trek shows at once is a bit too much for you and you should take another break after the season. Going on like this for two years will not benefit you. And us.

The Tuvok being possessed by the alien was cool, but the rest of the episode was rather run-of-the-mill Star Trek, very reminiscent of TOS or some TNG episodes. I give it a C.

This has always been an okay episode for me. I like the whole back and forth element as we try and figure out who's posessed, and the parnoia part is pretty cool too. I was surprised at the amount of hate people have for it. Completely inoffensive episode for me. Then again, a Voyager episode has to be REALLY bad for me to dislike it. Also, I believe the holonovel is suppoed to be loosely based on the book Jane Eyre.

I remember not liking this one at all, but I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Chakotay could have sent them a message instead of changing course early in the episode. Roll credits. Did he forget how to type words? When a character doesn't do the obvious thing just so the rest of the episode can happen I can't suspend my disbelief anymore.

I genuinely didn't remember this one for the plot. The holodeck opening was visually familiar but after that it was like watching for the first time. I think it was pretty obvious that Chakotay was the roaming entity and was trying to prevent Voyager returning to the nebula; taking ideas of the episodes 'Conundrum' and 'Clues' of TNG. What did surprise me was that there was actually an entity from the nebula on the ship. I thought it was pretty much Chakotay just trying to stop Janeway from returning. Other than that I think it's a reasonable episode.

That was an odd moment at the beginning.

I’m not a big fan of this episode - I think I was more intrigued by the holodeck story of Janeway playing the governess 😅

And remember this is 300 years in an alternate future so American Indian traditions could have changed/been different for them thus it doesn’t bother me that its not ours

She is the Captain, she knows about the medicine wheel, (she had been in sick bay three times since then) (I was half joking about the mirror universe, these takes were when we were watching that DS9 was given, and I am not a mirror universe person.)

I can just imagine how funny it would have been watching people moving cameras around like they are toy planes to get those "disembodied" shots.

appreciate you editing it in a way that made it easy to sync with the commercial breaks. i normally watch on paramount but got randomly logged out tonight and since it's a family account i didn't want to nag my sister for the log in code going to her email after midnight. was able to watch along on pluto tv fairly easily.

"Its not shit!" AVGN reference I think? 🤔

The other episode that Ira Steven Behr wrote the teleplay on his own for that Alex and Josh both liked was The Search Part II. (Ira discourse so potent it’s bleeding over into the next reaction.)

Caryolon Semor has made her fourth appearance on a Star Trek. She was the holographic house keeper.

Never fear gents. Never fear!

This is one I remember loving as a kid on first watch, but enjoying less on rewatches.

Voyager has great cold opens, as you've already noted. Even the worst episodes have nuggets of greatness in how the crew lives and interacts, and the little plans they make to keep themselves sane.

Brannon Braga, Jeri Taylor and Michael Piller all were not too fond of this episode, each for their own reasons. Braga thought the show ended up being about nothing due to disagreements with Piller. Piller found the episode didn't make any sense. Taylor found it confusing and better in concept than execution. I find the episode forgettable, and thankfully am sure to forget it again.

Josh, Alex. It was a piece of the action when Kirk ordered them to set the ships phasers to wide dispersal to stun the entire block

Thanks for the shoutout guys as a known “Voyager lover”! I’m happy to wear that title with pride! But don’t worry, I’m not a super simp. There will be episodes of Voyager that I do not like…

Cathexis is the Freudian term for how much emotional weight a person devotes to a relationship, an idea or belief that they cling to etc. So if you have really "invested" in say a political group, a religion, years of relationship with a spouse, or even a mental illness then it will be very hard to change your mind if the politics have gone bad, the religion no longer fits your morals, the marriage is falling apart, or "cure you" of your neurotic belief. So I guess that is a witty pun about trying to gaslight us into making us really commit to who the villain is and then see whether we change our mind when confronted with facts...

I don't think this episode is awful. Not even remotely. The outcome is rather predictable, but they compensate with an up-and-down wild plot and a nifty double twist. I still maintain my stance that Voyager is the least impressive of the 90s Treks, but I can't pretend to say that Season 1 is "horrible." In fact, Season 2 has some really fun episodes as well, but that's when some of the problems start to show, and I personally think Season 3 is when it gets hard to stomach. Is the rest of the show awful? Well, everything I'd posit is subjective, but I won't spell doom for the series, and certainly Alex and Josh can still give me a better opinion about the show than I've carried for all these years. I still *like* Voyager as a whole, just like most of Trek.

Let me try to further explain myself as if anyone gives a shit 1) The repeating of X could be The Alien I found to be really obnoxious 2) I had no memory of this episode and I knew immediately we were going down the same road as Clues 3) The medicine wheel as a map was corny as all heck but the big one to me (as someone else pointed out) 4) If Spirit Chakotay can eject warp core he can probably do other less complicated tasks like write a short warning or whatever on an ipad. And without something besides the plot that I could enjoy that plot hole set off the "Why doesn't he just do this this and this part of my brain to infinity.

My bar for a TNG episode would be "Where Silence Has Lease" Also a wise man once said: "There is no floor."

Interesting how Heart of Stone, which is 4 trillion times better than this episode and caused us to shed actual tears, didn't get Ira Stephen Behr a redemption

I do enjoy a bit of Syntax... Synth-Ass... Cathexis

Janeway’s opinion of the Doctor went from “he’s just a program” to “here are the keys to the ship incase we all go nuts” in just a couple of months.

45 minutes of run time with almost 20 minutes of story? Sign me up! Okay, I'm being harsh, but something felt off with this pacing to me. I kept waiting for the episode to take off and go, and it never quite did. But: Great direction, creepy lighting, and CAROLYN SEYMOUR, who can channel her Romulan badassery even in Victorian England. Plus now I can refer to having a beer as being "taken over by the alien." I wasn't thrilled, but I was still entertained.

Voyager sex scoreboard So much technobabble there was no time for sex. no scores SCOREBOARD Paris – 2 Neelix - 1 Kes – 1 Chakotay 1

I believe the holonovel is a rendition of 'The Turn of The Screw'.. There was a remake recently called 'The Turning'. Victorian gothic fiction is awesome.

An exceptionally subtitties episode indeed! Voyager's floor is quite high.

Thanks for using my take..the hot mess is all the possession stuff to clarify my critique....many people hate the writing for this character paired with the weird consulting advice from the fake Native American expert and also an actor who some people accuse of phoning it in...