UNCUT - Emanations (VOY S1E9) | Star Trek Journey 353

i love that you guys talk and have banter during the episode. you guys generally do it at the right times, and i don't find it disruptive at all. in fact, it's part of the enjoyment i get from your reactions.

You guys talk too much! I'm watching it for the first time with you and I noticed how you do a lot of random talking during the show. I understand you are reacting to what you're watching and that's fine but think of it as if you're going to a movie, the random talking during the show is disruptive. Everything else before and after is enjoyable.

1:31:40 Josh PREACH!

The one episode I almost never rewatch; seeing it again, maybe I was too harsh! Garrett Wang's acting was pretty on point.

After a solid opening sequence, it becomes a rather bland Braga screed against life after death with no surprises. At least bother to throw in an interesting B plot or something...

How come I am not getting the show.

When you made the comment about that you think the mind can't handle the information if you were to somehow be able to bring it back with you after death I think is a very similar situation to the nth degree with Barclay and once he is reintegrated he doesn't really remember all his knowledge that he had from the experience yes he remembers participating in those events but not the knowledge of how to do those same things anymore.

I feel like this is almost similar to half a life not exactly but a similar Vibe of a culture that is so ingrained in early death to lessen the burden on the Family and to pass over to the afterlife

This is my first time trying syncing up my copy with your video. And it is creepy and hilarious how accurately synchronized I did it. Looking at my TV and hearing the voices and sounds matched perfectly from my computer

Question: Can you believe they killed Harry? I like that Janeway gave him time off to think about his death, not many starfleet captains would do that. It's an A

Do you recall Mark Twain from TNG Season 1? I know you know him from his Mark Twain appearance but he was also in "Where the Bough Breaks" TNG season 1, think he was in charge of the people there that couldn't have kids so they stole the Enterprise's. Wasn't sure if you remembered that or Twain as the first appearance.

yeah a pretty good s1 i would agree with everything and but its a law of dimishing returns IMHO, where as TNG and DS9 get great that doesnt happen on Voyager unfortunately

Okay I have a question for you guys. Do you think Janeway's speech to Harry in this ep is more about youth. Or could it possibly be looked at more as a speech on simply not losing one's sense of wonder?

Something awesome is about early Trek is how there was plenty of latitude to have these completely different personalities as Captains (and Sisko’s)…that they were all SO different, but you dont have to choose a fave because they’re just the best of what they are! The Kirk Kamikaze go in guns blazing axe handling maniac The class with all stats set to Diplomacy that is Picard No Sass, no Nonsense, But still comes off as a laid back and likable leader; smooth acting Benjamin And then just quick On her feet rolling with the punches Janeway They’re all so complete and somehow don’t really have overlapping qualities or step on toes too much…idk- i just felt that they were always the perfect personalities for their environment so no need to have a fave…loving one doesn’t diminish any others

Stuff that pricks my brain in this episode is: 1. How many people do they send off a day? How does it impact their resources if they have perhaps sent generations of "fertiliser/resources" off planet? 2. Any organised religion has a thing about keeping their followers alive as long as possible by preaching about purpose and helping family, and in most cases add a counter to self-harm via a bad and/or painful place you end up separated from your loved ones. My pessimistic and cynical take is that people in power need people below them to stay alive long enough to extract value from them. 3. Since the death shroud bandages stay behind, the transportation is similar to Terminator time travel. Also, Harry didn't "wake up" in the device on top of any such bandages or clothing.

Josh, you used the term agnostic using its modern definition and not its original definition, and you might be interested to know about its original definition, which I actually think is a more useful word overall and is very useful in defining religious beliefs with greater fidelity. Agnostic, when originally coined, meant to acknowledge that something is unknowable, and not that it is unknown. Agnostic, by its original definition, deals with knowledge and not belief. Many combinations of gnosticism and belief is possible, such as to be an gnostic Christian, they believe that it is knowable and they believe Christianity is correct, or an agnostic Atheist, acknowledging that it is unknowable, and believing there is no God (often due to the critical thinking concept of The Burden of Proof, where we treat all claims as false till proven true, and "till proven true" is not possible due to it being unknowable). More accurate language allows us to think about these concepts clearer, so its always nice to spread those tools.

Josh said he wasn't aware of Earth religions that tell you to just off yourself. There are multiple death cults, and even death cults within mainstream religions. The 9/11 bombers went through with their suicide-bombing because they believed they were going to a better place. The Christian Science church withholds medical care to their children because they believe it is a good thing for their children to die young before being able to accrue sin. Jahova's Witnesses deny themselves and their children blood transfusions because Leviticus says that its a sin to consume blood. So they conclude its better to die young and go to heaven than survive due to a blood transfusion and risk going to hell. Does "consume" include transfusions? Why risk it if you get rewarded for dying early? Religious people who believe in an afterlife, and truly think it through, realize that life is just a waiting room for eternity, and nothing here matters except meeting the requirements to pass the test to get into the best afterlife. People like that are incredibly dangerous. They hurt themselves, their families, and others. All for the promise of something unprovable. They do it for deities that are clearly evil if they condone the death and suffering of the innocent.

I thought this episode was okay, but nothing special even though it had a few good moments. I used to consider it a D and skip it but i enjoyed it more today so it's gone up to a C. Still my least favourite episode so far though.

If you like Rick and Morty you will get the nod to this episode from Zick Zack the Floop Floopian in Rick and Morty Season 3, Episode 8 "Morty's Mind Blowers"

I think it was necessary for the episode to have B'terra die on Voyager. That way, her energy releases and goes to the energy field in the rings, and she finds her afterlife. If she had gone back, we would have never known what happened to her, she wouldn't have belonged there, and she would have lived the rest of her life in fear, possibly cut off forever from the rest of her family in the energy field. I think this episode is like Destiny in a way, (to me Destiny is an episode about misunderstanding, not religious prophecies being correct) only the people on the planet never understand that they misunderstood the process. I think these people DO get their afterlife just as they think they do. It just doesn't happen in the WAY that they think it does. The spider web stuff that their bodies produce is a highly complex element, and their consciousness leaves the body to exist with all of the other consciousness as part of the energy field. Who knows what the experience is like in that field. It probably is their heaven. It reminds me of Meridian actually where that entire planet shifts into another dimension of consciousness for a while. So this isn't the first time that Star Trek has established that things like that happen in universe. I'm with Alex in that I would like to see more from this planet and how they handle this. But I don't want to see the planet delve into chaos as much as I frustratingly want this planet to figure out what actually happens to them. Both the fear and the hope, the good and the bad of it. I want them to actually know that their bodies decay on an asteroid, but their energy goes into a community energy field around the planet, and watch the society adapt to this truth. But just like here on Earth, we're never going to know what actually happens to us until we die, so I guess it's fitting that this planet would never know either. It's just unsettling knowing that since this society only got a few bits of the truth here and there, fear and misunderstanding are going to run rampant now and probably have a devastating effect on the society.

…and that concludes our documentary on the Canadian healthcare system. I hate to get too serious on Josh, but when he said at 1:05:30 that “if that happened on earth somewhere, we would not be allowing that”. In 2024 government assisted suicide were 5% people of ALL deaths in Canada. Growing each year by a lot. Many US states are following. Europe is inventing suicide pods that look just like the shit in this episode. It’s evil, disgusting and sad. 😔

Maybe we should have a death count along with the sex count. Don't Tom and Harry both have a point now?

Really decent episode IMO, I really don't understand the people who are saying it's boring

Alex saying that he wants to base his entire personality on Janeway! 😂 wearing her uniform, hair in a bun, drinking coffee, Hepburn voice.

Destiny was a pretty good episode.

Enjoy being 31. Youth is wasted on the young.

I appreciate what Brannon Braga was going for with this episode in terms of its sentiment, but for me it just doesn't really work too well. Partially because of how he describes the beliefs of this particular alien race, and to me it doesn't make too good of a stand in for many religious people's beliefs on Earth, at least not the types I'm familiar with. Furthermore, because of what might be thought of as a 'spiritual journey' that I went on years ago, my current view of reality and what I think quite possibly happens when people 'die' makes this whole episode kind of frustrating to watch. Long story short, I went from being an ex-Christian atheist who sounded a lot like Alex, in terms of my attitude about this stuff, to viewing the world quite differently, even though I never adopted a new religion. I'm very thankful for my current perspective, TBH. But it does make episodes like this rather dull/flat.

RE: Jake, I always assumed that based on his age he was limited in his scope of episodes originally. Also, I think it can be difficult as writers having regular actors who are not "bridge crew" always having things to do. Deanna worked a station on the battle bridge in Encounter at Farpoint that one time. Otherwise, she just had to sit in her chair and look worried during a red alert. Kes is now a nurse and functionally the ship's counsellor. Plus, she's psychic. Neelix is a guide and cook. There is less for him in my opinion; however, he probably should have been a part of the original away team. Just a couple lines and he wouldn't have went unused this episode.

I listen to a lot of near death experiences from places like The Other Side NDE. According to them, you have a absolutely nothing to fear if you die and you're an atheist. In fact, most NDEs I've heard have been either from atheists or former catholics. From them, it sounds like the religion that's closest to being right is Hinduism. But the ultimate message of them is your religion doesn't matter. They are all just man made constructs. If they help you feel closer to God, great! If not, don't worry about it. We're all ultimately here just for the experience of living, and to learn how to love in a world that's constantly trying to pull us away from that. Basically, Earth is supposed to be soul boot camp.

The most unintentionally amusing thing about this episode is that the guy that Harry Kim takes the place of in the wrapping is a scrawny 100-pounds soaking-wet guy while Harry is rather robust and we just pretend not to notice. This is overall another okay but middling episode like the last one. Two of Season One's three best are up next back to back though.

Interesting discussion on this one, particularly about how people blame religion for human shittiness when it's just one one of many outlets. Even people who reject religion can become so invested in politics or social movements that those things take on all the hallmarks of religion minus belief in God, and in some cases end up causing even more harm(like communism killing 150 million people). I always roll my eye when people say war and conflict would stop if we got rid of religion. I think something like 4% of all wars in history were partly or entirely motivated by religion, and maybe 2% of deaths. Most of those are well in the past at this point. I think if someone has beliefs that give them direction in life and some certainty about what comes after, and they're not trying to enforce it on anyone else, that can be very positive. I knew one girl at my first job who was atheist/agnostic but still went to church for the community aspect of it. But obviously there are more cult like or manipulative expressions of it, like those mega churches which was explored somewhat in in that recent X Files episode. Granted they operated out of a tent, but I get that's a budget thing. And to be fair in that case the kid did seem to be able to legit heal people. As someone from Canada, I chuckled a bit when you said you'd be appalled if somewhere in the real world took the whole "you should go kill yourself so you're not a burden" approach, considering how close to the border you are. The MAID policy up here is pretty disgusting IMO. If it were a "by request only" thing that could never be recommended by a medical professional, and reserved for terminal incurable conditions, ok. But the fact is our govt tried to make it available to children as young as 12 with conditions as minor as depression. There was a case of a veteran who suffered an injury in training and just needed a wheelchair lift installed at her house, and instead they offered her assisted suicide. It actually is a horrific policy. That said I don't necessarily get the sense these aliens have any policy as bad as Timicin's people. It seems entirely voluntary, it's just in this case this guy's family was clearly trying to get rid of him because he was a "burden", but I don't think anyone is actually forced into it. I have to say though, the first time we see his wife getting all emotional, I immediately saw through the crocodile tears/performative crying for the manipulation tactic it was. I learned to spot that act from a mile away because I saw it a thousand times from my own mother growing up. The dead giveaways are facial expressions associated with crying but few if any actual tears, that it seems to start and stop on command, and that when it starts and stops it directly in line with getting what you want out of someone. Basically as soon as Hatil confirms he's going through with it, the waterworks stop. Granted, it's possible it was intended to be genuine and just a poor performance, but most indications point to her gaslighting Hatil into killing himself, in which case the actress did an excellent job. Gotta say though, that pod is fairly spacious, and the device that kills the occupant pretty specifically targets the neck. Did Harry skip ab day? Why can't he just hold a sit up for a few seconds so the zap misses him? I'll give this one a B+. Not an amazing episode or anything, but I do like that it ends on a more hopeful note. Also I noticed some of the Dutch angles before, but never really clocked that ALL the camerawork in the other dimension was like that. Cool directorial choice.

Great discussion. Does anyone else fear death too? Or, I think that's the wrong word usage. I'm not afraid of death as I don't think there's some fiery lake awaiting my soul. I think either nothing happens, and I drift off into an eternal slumber, or there is indeed another "stage" that we aren't privy to here in this mortal realm. But I dislike the concept because it's an ending to what I do know as existence now, and I love existing. From the simplest activity, eating a perfect burger with bacon, to the grandest skydiving adventures, it's all... perfect. I hope it never has to end. Come on AI, develop treatments for the primary stages of biological aging... Also, the only thing I disagree in your discussion is not liking the guest actress interacting with Kes? I thought she was great, very convincing emotions.

Just a heads up, this episode was made during the Dr Kevorkian trials and this is a reference to dealing with that.

This one didn't hit with me. C- at best. I just didn't care. There was nothing at risk (ok, maybe Harry, but he's just an ensign - dime a dozen) and Voyager just screws with people's beliefs.

Snooze fest. Long boring episode about characters and culture that are not interesting. TNG did this better with Half a Life.

Really nice Score in this Episode. Elevated a few Scenes. (Also Alex your Side eye at the End was a few Seconds to early. Guess Janeway gotcha. ^^)

Kes. Fire.

There are hours of or lives we regret wasting that we'll never get back and every Harry Kim episode is one of those hours for me. Boring, don't care at all for these aliens or their troubles, exactly what the D grade is made for.

I should clarify my take. I didn't mean writers are "cowards" for including any religion ever. (I love "What Dreams May Come" for example). I meant they were cowards for not trusting the emotional resilience of the audience. The horror in Emanations completely depends on there NOT being an afterlife. The whole point of the episode is being sad (for that girl when she realizes she's never going to see her brother again), and mad at that society for allowing the disposal of unwanted people with (what we know are) lies. Suggesting that "maybe she got to see him again after all", it replaces this horror almost with a sigh of relief that "all is well" and that there was actually nothing wrong with killing the disabled. Either make a "What Dreams May Come", OR a stone cold horror with bodies on an asteroid. Not both at the same time because you think the audience can't handle the latter.

How horrible of those people to let their sick and dying say goodbye to their families while they are still sound of minds, and die believing that what's coming is great. They should do the humane thing, and lock their loved ones in institutions, so they can suffer for as long as possible and die alone and terrified. /s My grandfather begged my family to let him die for 15 years while he was basically on suicide watch in an old people home. The day he died, he was terrified and spent 6 hours being revived and suffering before his body finally gave out. I wish he could have had an euthanasia while he was still lucid and happy, so I could have good memories of him. Now, the only memories I have of my grandfather is just how broken his body was and how much he was suffering. Suffering in a hospital bed for years before dying is my greatest fear. The way we treat our sick and dying is one of the worst things that my culture does imo.

Widow burning.

I enjoy this whole episode and then that ending scene with Kim and Janeway totally brings it home. I wonder if maybe she sees a lot of her younger self in Harry: eager, ambitious, confident, friendly. For myself, I'm both a person of faith and someone who loves science and I've never felt a conflict between those, so I really appreciate that at least as of this point VOY is much less hostile to faith/religion than TNG was. I think "We can't REALLY know, but we can theorize!" is a really sensible place for science-minded people like Janeway to fall when it comes to the afterlife.

During the first act of the reaction all I can think is, "wow, this would be a much better episode if the plot was actually about a giant space spider."

The Star Trek Voyager crew arrive at a planet that has adopted the Canadian Healthcare System.

With regards to the culture seemingly in a hurry to die, remember they have to schedule their passing. Since it seems like they have to be in that pod, and schedule it ahead of time, I dont think they can get to the next emanation if they die in an accident or up in the mountains. I think that has a big effect on their willingness to rush their passing

Prime Directive out of the window… Kim left his phaser and tricorder! Including all the readings of the bodies and asteroids. Was the actress playing the wife of the man who went naked to the mountains the school teacher who Data argued with about the elements when he lost his memory? And was the actor playing the man with the bad leg also Dr Reager off that space station that blew up as Riker beamed out? Having a bad mental health day and can’t remember episode names.

When this episode first aired I thought to myself, “if the series keeps giving us episodes like this it’s going to be in a lot of trouble.” Say what you want about how it explores the theme of the episode, it certainly doesn’t pull it off in a very interesting fashion. It’s dull and dreary. But thankfully even though there are a number of similar clunkers to come the series does have some great stuff to look forward to.

I love how "We ruined a whole religion this week." is a subgenre of Star Trek episodes.

This episode is an absolute snooze-fest to me. I get what they're trying to do, but it just didn't work for me. Halfway through, I was ready for it to be over.

I’ve always felt Voyager had the strongest first seasons. Nice ideas here execution is lacking but it nails the final scene.

It's not in "the" world, Alex, where you can't get two days off after a near-death experience. It's in you world, also called USA. Greetings from "socialist" Europe.

I do enjoy the exploration of themes such as this; death is truly the great unknown. This episode is ok, solid, but as you say, Alex, it could have delved deeper into death and cultural beliefs. That said, we'll all find out what's at the end, eventually.

Alex’s anger is getting to be very off putting

Those Mama Janeway moments are just my favourite.

In my opinion I feel that Picard is the Diplomatic Captian, he goes on the big Starfleet Missions, holds diplomatic talks, and solves any other issues that the Federation needs to show they mean business. Sisko is the Fatherly Commander, he is there to nuture Bajor into the Federation, he is there to make sure things are safe. and Janeway is the Captain Captain, She has a mission, and no one else to answer to except her own moral compass, she can't ask the admirals what to do, she has the final say. It really gives us a way to love all 3 for who they are and not try to pit them against each other as who is best. They all have their ways and it works for who they are as people.

TRUTH: I can take a mental health day or 2 as needed. I teach adults in a classroom environment. My boss and employer care about staff's emotional health. It does happen in this world sometimes. I'm proof. Also I love Voyager and Janeway! And you guys :)

This is definitely the kind of thing that would happen to O’Brien. Kim took the bullet on this one for you, Chief. I think the only way to do the type of story Alex wanted, showing all the cultural repercussions, would be if time moved differently on their home planet/dimension, so that Kim would have spent 5 years trying to get back and thus getting to see the societal changes, while only a day or two passed for Voyager. Really enjoyed the discussion. You hit on most of the same points I would make about the episode. Really the one thing I found missing was more visceral terror/desperation from Kim at the possibility of being doomed to live on this world alone with no way back for the rest of his life.

To each their own I suppose. I like it they kept it open ended. Real world is full of adversity and gloom anyway. So it's okay to have a positive note here and there for average Joe.

I'm with Tinman - it was a cop out to put in that energy thing with the rings. I'm tired of any story that criticizes religion/faith having to tread softly and be careful not to offend the believers.

This episode hits close to home being both from Canada and having a disabled younger sister. That Alien culture is very grim from my POV, I wouldn't want to live there. No one is ever a burden to deserve death.

I haven’t seen this one since it first aired. I remembered the basic premise of it. It’s ok. B-/C+

Season one has surprised me upon rewatching with you - its a lot better then I remembered! Maybe its because I'm older now. I think you're going to love the show as a whole though if you're into it this much already.

Anything that properly explores the nature of death is Aces in my book. The writing ITSELF....I mean it's passable. But the premise and execution is great. I will go ahead and give this an A I will also say, in my opinion, the rest of Voyager season 1 is solid. I gotta admit that. Nothing I would give under a B. :) No spoilers. Just my thoughts. ^_^

Interesting discussion! This is a great episode for posing some difficult questions about life and death. I like the choice of it being the youngest crewmember going through this rather than someone like Chakotay who seems to be the most spiritual member of the crew we've seen so far. Makes you wonder how the other characters would've dealt with the situation.

I think Tim Russ deserves some love for his acting chops. It must be so hard to be an actor but not to be able to emote, and carry it off convincingly.

Jeez, Harry really screwed that guy out of being neural energy.

Give me the big spider!

"All I know is that in the afterlife, you could be headed for the serious strife." This for me was a Star Trek V–esque attempt to answer questions that can't be answered from where we are. Good guest performances from Jerry Hardin and the woman who played Ptera, and a fantastic ending monologue from Janeway, but otherwise there wasn't much here to hold my attention. Not sure why they went for the "culturally mandated death" discussion when they did that better in Half a Life. With that said, hard to disagree with the "best season 1" title. Man did they have this meal fully cooked from the outset.

man this one hits me in the feelers. Harry's reaction to the box thing going to kill him is exactly how some people feel getting ready for major surgery

Wasn't Jerry Hardin in an early episode of TNG before Twain? The one where they want the children from the Enterprise?

It is like reaching a different plane of existence when you finally know the answer to "Kirk or Picard?" is JANEWAY. And that comes from someone who loves James T. Kirk and Jean-Luc Picard.

Don’t forget that Janeway did a whole monologue about deciding to be more personable with the entire crew because of their situation. I think she was very much like Picard before this show began and less mom like.

There are good moments here but not a fave, there are so much better this season. So glad you are enjoying it

Picard pronounced Bajor like you Josh, don’t worry