UNCUT - Ex Post Facto (VOY S1E8) | Star Trek Journey 351

Galen was a famous physician in Roman Empire. Salk cured polio. Spock was a OB/GYN who wrote a best selling book on child rearing in the 1940s.

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the battle plan was to fake a heavy damage by venting gas trough the deflectors and faking to be badly hurt, so that the ships stop shooting and coming closer to engange their tractor beam and then when they are close to fire a full loadup attack salvo on both ships short range. otherwise they would have stayed furhter away and continued shooting so the own weapons wasnt powerfull enought to disable them in one salvo it was talked about AND shown on screen with us seeing the fake gas coming out of the voyager and it being looking powered down you cant blame the show for missing everything on screen xD

So do you guys think Voyager would be better of they actively avoid war zones, even if it's inconvenient and causes their journey back to earth to take longer? And do you think that this episode at all presents a rather questionable characterization of Tom Paris?!

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No 🍏... I only trust an android with my DATA. 🖖

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Damn, that girls comment about Janeway was rock solid. Excellent take... and for you patrons, if you click the right arrow button it skips ahead 10 seconds, now.. I'm not saying I do that (often) but its handy. Since I'm here... I love the theme. Sweeping, majestic, awe inspired. How do you write for awe inspired? This is how.

What was that odd comment Alex made about the planet in Time and Again blowing up so the crew should never visit any planet ever again. I find this episode somewhat mediocre

We mightve had more information to figure it out myself if we had seen more of the mans work to see it was the memory text, and another person with a memory implant. And I, for one, am not a fan of the Apple corporation.

The first Patron audio question was implicitly assuming you are innocent so who would be the best one to find the evidence you are innocent. Alex assumes he's guilty thus who is least capable. Lol

I really hope they develop Chakotay’s character

Don’t be dog haters…dogs rule !

Spock did a couple of investigation plots back then.

Why do I think if DS9 did that makeup they would have instantly tuned out

Yeah it was way to early in the show to recycle a TNG script. A lot of the dialog was too cringe c-

Josh, I am impressed with your recollection of Star Fleet doctors and their disciplines. I had to look this one up in the computer archives, and all three doctors named are from "ancient Earth": Galen of Pergamon, Jonas Salk, and Benjamin Spock. It is an interesting coincidence that two of these, Galen and Spock, have names that mirror important characters in Star Fleet's history. Perhaps The Doctor's initial reflection on important historical physicians is being influenced or biased by his knowledge of Star Fleet history?

Josh mentioned that there is no security chief in TOS. In "Mirror, Mirror", Sulu was the security chief. So you could consider Mirror Sulu as your detective.

Josh, since Alex was on Picard's pro-genocide side initially in "I, Borg", and since he is a huge fan of space-Hitler Gul Dukat, I agree with you that fascist Odo and Alex would get along well 🤪 Damn Marc Alaimo for making us all like space-Hitler 🤪

Where did this rule come from that to be good, a mystery has to give all the clues to the viewers to solve for themselves? Most mysteries are not like that. Not one Sherlock Holmes mystery could be solved by the reader.

Apple. Though only because resyncing after the credits again would be a pain in the ass. JK, I'm here for the full product. As for the episode, yeah it's not a standout of the season, but I like it. Either a high C or low B. All the melodramatic dialogue is just corny enough to be amusing. Story is slightly confusing, mainly as to what the Benean doctor or Lidell's motives were. I assume he's selling out his people for money, and perhaps she wants to abandon her comatose marriage to do a 24th century Bonnie and Clyde deal. But in that case get the guy who played the gigolo a few eps back to play the doctor. That guy seemed even more boring than her husband. It may not be an amazing showcase for Tuvok, but we still get to see him do his thing competently, and the scene with Tom at the end is solid. Likewise Chakotay's trick is fine if a bit simplistic(though I think he's overlooking the possibility people in the delta quadrant thought that one up on their own), but the scene still gave Chakotay a little something to chew on. Nothing on the level of standing up for the Maquis crew in Parallax, but better than nothing. And nice to see Neelix knowledge of the quadrant wasn't just forgotten about after the pilot. However undoubtedly the best scene in the episode was Janeway saying they weren't leaving orbit until they proved his innocence. Not determine his innocence, PROVE it. Janeway is already 100% sure that even the guy she pulled out of a penal colony isn't capable of what they're accusing him of. That level of faith in and commitment to her crew is one of the first real instances of "mother goose" Janeway, which to me is probably her best character trait.

Just noticed that everyone addresses Tuvok as “lieutenant,” but he is wearing the insignia of a lieutenant commander. They should be addressing him as “commander.”

Dr. Benjamin Spock wrote a child care book that was very popular in the 1950s-1960s. My mom always said “Dr. Spock” when she meant “Mr. Spock.”

Some Tuvok narration/logs would have made this episode a little better for me. And it would have been nice to hear a My Mind to Your Mind... also, Chekhov later became Tactical officer in the TOS movies.

Data's my investigator. It's freaking Sherlock Holmes!

They had to go to these guys because they had a broke door dad or transistor or whatever? And Neelix suggested the less warlike of the two species..

I like that Tom was totally about to bang this guys wife. He’s not a killer but he’s not above that. Maybe not his first time being the other man. Feels almost like a rewrite of a matter of perspective.

I never really was a fan of this one, though there's a lot of moments I enjoy, especially Tuvok.

First time watching. Paris is still kinda a scumbag even though he isn't a murderer. That dog was cute (RIP doggy...always makes me sad watching a old show knowing the dog is dead). I wasn't a big fan of y'all hating on it. Okay episode

Star Trek VI was pretty good

Apple. Not sure I watched this the day it aired. It was my 18th birthday, but I was recovering from surgery at the time. I have mixed feelings on this episode watching it now. Paris and Tuvok were never my favorite characters, but I find myself enjoying them now during this rewatch.

some good moments but easily my least fav voyager ep so far.

We saw that same cityscape painting in several TNG episodes.

This episode was better than I remember. Not bad. B

A Matter of Perspective was already a mediocre rehash of Rashomon, and now Voyager is giving us a mediocre rehash of A Matter of Perspective? Wake me up for the Doctor/Kes scenes.

Apple 🍎

Apple

I was born on a Monday too. The TOS episode “The Tholian Web” aired the week I was born.

Alex: "We never got to see Spock solve a murder" Star Trek 6: "Am I a joke to you?" Alex: "Yes. Shut up."

A.dequate P.aris P.unishment L.aw & Order E.pisode

Apple. Overall Voyager is fine but ranks below DS9 and TNG for me. But no doubt it has the best first season when compared to TNG and DS9.

I didn’t like this episode when it first aired and sadly I still don’t. A murder mystery I didn’t care about with a pretty ridiculous resolution, one of the most over-used matte paintings in Trek, really goofy looking aliens, stilted dialogue from sub-par guest actors and - a dog. Glad this one is over and we can move on. It’s a D for me.

Apple

I give this one a a C. It's far too similar to the TNG episode "A Matter of Perspective" where Riker was falsely accused of fooling around with an alien's wife. That TNG episode was superior. They mentioned Dr. Spock which was a famous doctor in the US.

Rather silly that a legal case comes down to the reaction of a dog, but it's mitigated by the final scene where Paris essentially lampshades it. The Paris/Tuvok "too late you just did" scene about making a new friend is reminiscent of the Guinan/Ro scene in the latter's eponymous TNG episode. Overall one of Voyager's middling episodes of Season One..I'd put it tenth or eleventh among the sixteen. I'll give it a weak C+.

Apple!

Apples for the ugliest dog in the galaxy, and flowers for Tuvok for being the highlight of the episode. While this episode has a bunch of classic mystery tropes (the Agatha Christie-style reveal [she's notorious for false leads and withholding critical information] and the Holmesian dog that doesn't bark), this episode might have renewed relevance as an unintended commentary on the reliability (or lack thereof) of pov or body cam footage. It's a solid resource, but it should never be the sole foundation of a judgement. It seems the Benea have fallen into the temptation of trusting the testimony of murder victims since they should know what happened. The Nameeri and the Banea used to coexist on the same planet, according to Neelix. Looks like the Nameeri are fish people (squashed faces look like fish to me) and the Banea are bird people (they've all got feathers). Chakotay's "trick" is based on both sides using energy dispersal weapons (phasers). The farther away the target is, the less impact will be felt when the weapon hits. Chakotay and B'Elana made Voyager look more damaged than it actually was by venting plasma to draw the Nameeri in closer, so that they had better odds of incapacitating them when Voyager fired as it pulled away. Doctors the Doctor mentioned: Dr. Galen, or Galen of Pergamon (129–c. 216 AD) , was a Roman physician whose research and techniques served as one of the foundations of pre-Renaissance Western medicine. Dr. Salk, Jonas Salk (1914–1995), is most famous for developing the first safe, widely available vaccine for Polio. Dr. Spock, Benjamin Spock (1903–1998), an American pediatrician who wrote " The Common Sense Book of Baby and Child Care" which outlined a compassionate, naturalistic parenting strategy that was influential for decades.

Apples. I love the gritty noir feel of the episode and the Rick and Morty style Bird person / people vibe the aliens gave me. I love the preamble by Josh and Alex about the 90's but in truth you had to live it to understand the profound commitment it took for a Star Trek fan to watch a show like Voyager. A seven year commitment to turn up and watch the show every week, no reaching for a phone if the episode didn't hit and the internet was a phone call away on a dial up modem. There was only the sound of the clock on the wall or banter from whomever you were watching it with at the time The only fomo there was, was cycling through the handful of other TV channels that there were during an advert break. This is before streaming or DVD box sets which only came in around 1999-2000 for some shows and if you missed the episode or didn't record it on your VCR then you just missed it. You got to know these characters over a time period like knowing people from grade school. The only questions you need are were you entertained? And is this show worth watching for 7 seasons. The answer is yes to both.

Apple Waffle

Sierra Nicole’s (sp?) earlier take is spot on. 100%. Very well said. Now what’s all this talk about Apple? I know the Neo just dropped which is exciting.

I don't think the Spock they mentioned was ever meant to be our Spock though a fun drop...always assumed it was Doctor Spock, the real life "Baby Doctor" of those books. Another good Voyager episode though, as I've always said I think Voyager has the stronger start/first season particularly of the Trek shows.

Galen is the most famous physician of antiquity, having lived about one century BC. I thought for sure The Doctor would name-drop McCoy.

It's a fair cop but society is to blame.

Apple, I love your banter, even the wrestling references I know nothing about.

Apple.

C+ Tier. There were others before who did it better. At no Time i am fully invested in the Case, which is a Shame.

My mom told me I was conceived after they went out on a date to see Star Trek: The Voyage Home. I have to live with that for the rest of my life.

Pineapple. That’s right. Right?

Apple!

This feels about as C as C gets to me. It's fine. I like some bits. But it also feels somewhat dull at the same time.

Any time Neelix gets to do his 'local expert' thing I'm glad. :D I'm also glad when we get Star Trek actor alumni as directors! You have to figure that it's so helpful for the cast and crew to have someone in that chair who Gets It. I don't think it's spoilery to point out that despite the great character stuff we've gotten so far, there's still plenty of territory to explore! One of the great things about a big main cast is that there's a lot of different combos. We've had some great moments between Harry and Tom or Harry and B'Elanna, but very few between Tom and B'Elanna or Harry and Chakotay. They've definitely hit the ground running to lay a firm foundation but there is room to not just grow but struggle or regress. Tuvok for example is a 100+ years old and in theory a very stable character, but even he could have a change based on missing his family for years straight.

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Apple!

1:32:00 The last mind meld that was shown was on DS9. Gul Dukat was just able to resist, but it still happened.

I love that Josh and Alex think George Washington was subject to prosecution in 1784. I get that Josh just isn't thinking, but damn man, think about it.

I'd watch a full series of Detective Tuvok.

A middling episode which seems to have lifted its plot from Diagnosis Murder (which is a guilty pleasure of mine). Fun fact, the actress (Robin McKee) who played Lidell Ran also starred in an episode of that show. As you both cited it does have that feel of Matter Of Perspective which is fine, and the generic feel of most TV murder mysteries. I think the main positive is that the episode gives some time to develop Tuvok's character.

I think this episode really bored me when I was 13 years old. Watching now, I appreciate the nuance of Levar Burton's direction, and that bit of character development between Tom and Tuvok at the end.

Rewatching this, it actually starts out kind of intriguing. Good LeVar Burton direction. The noir flavoring is fun. I agree with Josh and Alex, though, that the reason it doesn’t quite work (IMO) is that we aren’t really given enough information to figure out the mystery on our own, and so Tuvok revealing everything at the end is just kind of a flat exposition dump. (Like, I think this kind of story playing fair has to give us the wife and the traitor scientist together in a scene at least once.) Nice final scene, though. I would give this a low C.

There was a chief of security in TOS. In the movies Chekov had this role.

"Ex post facto" is a latin law term. It literally means "after the fact" which is translated to retroactive or retrospective.

I think it's not a spoiler but logic that there will come a point (in space and in time) where Neelix's knowledge of the Delta Quadrant ends.

The episode has an interesting premise, but the execution is not really that convincing. I think the guest actors were a miss (especially that famme fatale was way to melodramatic) and Tuvok as an investigator isn't really engaging to me either. The episode showed Tuvok doing his job, but little of Tuvok as a person. In comparison, Odo is my preferred investigator. His investigation stories are more compelling, imo.

Yeah not a good episode

Actually Dr. Spock is a well known child psychologist who was extremely popular and wrote a big childrearing book popular in the 70’s. So it wasn’t referring to “our” Spock the Doctor was referencing… although I’m sure it was a wink nonetheless. The Maquis trick was venting gas and turning off the station keeping so they look damaged and drifting thus luring the ships to come in for the kill (or likely in the case of the starfleet shuttles lowering shields to board). It’s not super innovative hence Janeway mentioning it was an “old trick”

How do ya like them apples?

Wow, I hate the sound of my own voice 😂 Great discussion! This is a sort of mid episode for me. Not amazing, not terrible, but just nice to see Tuvok taking centre stage for the first time. I forgot about that badass Janeway moment!

The key difference between Odo and Worf is that Odo is a police officer/detective, whereas Worf is a security guard. As the chief of security of a federation starship Tuvok's role is more like Worf's; but Tuvok is much older and wiser and has done a lot of stuff in his life, and has undercover experience - he's clearly a much better investigator than Worf.

Hehe we keep doing these tests. Nobody wants to upset the Apple cart but you dont need to do this. :D

As much as you malign Star Trek VI - we had Spock leading a murder investigation!

I was born between the first two movies so everything from Wtath of Khan on I was alive for.

Banana.... (picking a different fruit coz like you guys neither am I sponsored by an US mobile phone manufacturer) Why would I skip the intro? Either here or on YT.. ? That's nuts! It's part of the whole experience with you guys. Skipping the intro ... and missing you showing that you care for your community and picked a comment on another video and reading it here? Nope... Banana!

good ol' apple Also I like to look at this episode not as a Murder Mystery, that is a Red Herring, the true story is the subterfuge plotline that takes place. Also as for the reason Voyager was at the planet had to do with Voyager needing to fix their navigational arrays (damaged off screen). B+

Good morning! I'm starting the day with a healthy breakfast. An apple a day keeps the doctor away

Hey, Target! My name is Matt Painting and I am here to tell you about Vinean Life Insurance. Wasn't it great in the last episode of the Star Trek, Profit Motif, when Nog visit Ferangi Homeworld? So funny and cry sad, right? I'm relatable and real person. Target, would you like to give free APPLE offer with Vinean Life Insurance for Golddiggers? Reply to me, Matt Painting, and I can offer your Audience an exclusive Apple Free Gift Offer. Please send banking info and Social Security numbers to Matt.Painting.RealMan@mobilegameheadphones.io.ucq 🖖 ****************** [But seriously, LeVar nailed the direction of this. When Tuvok mind melds, LeVar used zoom ins and changed the perspective. This was always one of my favorite rewatches.]

I do like it. Some compare it to a matter of perspective, I see it a bit but I like it much better, it has Tuvok. I would choose Tuvok or Odo but Picard would be high up too

Pear. I mean, Apple.

Apple. When I first saw this it was interesting, but sometimes over the years I had the idea I didn’t like it, then other times I look forward to it. I love Tuvok and Janeway.

I'm with Josh. Those are not dogs. Those are rats with long hair.

I think when the Doc name-dropped "Doctor Spock" he was referring to the famous pediatrician Dr. Benjamin Spock. Our Spock was never referred to as "Doctor." He was "Mister." Sorry to be that guy... :D

"I'll try spinning! That's a good trick!" – Chakotay, probably Otherwise, not my favorite Voyager outing. This seems like the kind of murder mystery you try to concoct as a kid, when you want a great twist ending but you don't really know how to get there, so you end up throwing in a bunch of facts that seem like they should all connect but don't. (Or maybe that was just me?) Either way, the plot feels muddled and flat to me, although the direction has some great flourishes and the score is outstanding. Those low strings and brass make these events seem much more ominous than they ultimately are. And yes, apple.

I don't think that Spock reference is what you think it was. He was listing historical and Federation doctors. "Spock" is most likely a direct reference to Dr. Benjamin Spock (1903-1998), a pediatrician and the author of the best-selling book, "Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care".

Voyager Okay no new balongabas. (sorry I got nothin). Well not really one. I will say there is one climax that must be counted and that is inside ProfMoff’s pants. Good god that vixen (though a lying bitch) was ungodly hot. So ProfMoff pants gets a +1 SEX SCORE BOARD Paris – 2 Neelix - 1 Kes – 1 Prof moff pants (yes gross) +1

That matte painting was used several times before in TNG and also in DS9. I think these aliens might be one of the first bird-people we see in live-action. Well, I can't be sure if they are supposed to be birds, but those are feathers they have on their heads. Also apple. But it doesn't count because I skipped almost entire intro and just ended on Alex saying comment apple.

Apple

You guys are really making me feel old I was born December 12 1957 nine years before The Man Trap and ten years before Josh's dad less one day. Also that city scape has been used before. First appeared on TNG Angel One and a number of episodes after that.

Apple

Apple

You're right Alex, it is weird to cross that THRESHOLD. IYKYK

As Tuvok comes out of the mind meld with Tom, looking for evidence -- "We ain't found shit!"

Apple

Apple

Why would anyone "Skip Ahead" during a creator's reaction video? Isn't the whole reason you're watching to get their take on the material? That's like ordering an appetizer in a restaurant and then choosing not to eat it. FINALLY! Someone else thinks that dog was ugly! I feel seen! And ..... Apple!

Thank you for reminding me that I'm old.

Apple

"gotta have a penis brother" - Josh

Well luckily the discussion at the beginning didn't keep the doctor away.

The apple doesn’t far from the writing tree with this one, plots just get reused sometimes for filler

its G-TV brother!

Apple? (I haven’t watched this reaction yet, but didn’t want to miss out on what I’m assuming is free fruit.)

I now have to sue you for making me feel old. I was born 4 months before “The Man Trap.”

To answer your question, in the 90s when TV shows weren't good people didn't watch them, they got bad ratings and got cancelled. It was also a lot harder to get a show to air in the first place. It's not like now where zoomer media like Netflix will greenlight any garbage and air it.

Happy Apple Pie

This is the midseason finale of Voyager season one:)

Josh is coming...in 6 months. That's a long time to edge.

Really enjoyed this reaction, Mr. Audience. Fun to watch while eating an apple!

Remember when TNG did this with A Matter of Perspective? Already recycling plots.

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Yeah I was watching this at 8:00 that Monday.

Literally TNG's A Matter of Perspective with a slightly different flavor. A blander flavor to boot. I dunno if I should call this a rip-off or homage (can you rip-off your own intellectual property? I dunno), but the plot is SO identical that it's immersion-breaking. C-/D+