UNCUT - The Cloud (VOY S1E6) | Star Trek Journey 347

I feel like TA knowing about the fake Native consultant is a huge spoiler for experiencing everything in order. I had no clue when Voyager was running and did not hear about it until years later. To be fair, his outing as a fraud had already occurred in the 80s and his involvement in Voyager was sparse and in pre-production. But Chakotay feels very different in rewatch.

The Chief Engineering Officer, B'Elanna Torres, her name is pronounced this way "Buh-LAH-nuh" or "Buh-LAWN-nuh".

Holodeck power works differently iirc - in one of the first episodes they talked about trying to take power from the holodeck system to power the ship but they were incompatible. But it would still need to draw energy from SOMEWHERE... they do have holodeck rations similar to their rationing of replicator credits.

Hey first time here! Just wanted to say hi- dig your trek takes+wrestling terminology in your reviews- y’all just speak my lingo..

waffles

There’s a comment, almost a throw away line when Janeway’s getting briefed on Voyager’s power issues and they make a point of saying the holodecks have an independent power source and when they tried to tie it into the main grid it caused all kinds of problems. I’m sure this was done in the pilot episode specifically to future proof vs the criticism of using power on them instead of food and medical supplies.

I boycott all of the evil empire's beverages and products...

Even when a Voyager episode is weaker, which i feel this one is, I still really enjoy it because I love all the main characters

They had a Native American "expert" on the show to do the Chakotay stuff. Well, it turned out he wasn't an expert or a Native American.

Waffles

To explain inconsistencies in Chakotay's traditions, I like the in-universe explanation that as this is several hundred years in our future, maybe it's cultural drift, just like how Christmas as it's celebrated now is very far from its origins in Saturnalia or even Feast of St. Nicholas or Sinterklaas. It would have been better if it had been more consistent and sourced from a specific Native American tribe or background, but maybe Star Trek gets better about that in the future (fingers crossed). Certainly Scotty and Chekhov were kind of caricatures of Scottish and Russian ancestry.

I think the addition of the "nebula" in the middle of a character-driven episode actually served a really specific purpose. It was pretty low stakes but it gave the audience an inventory of Voyager's actual situation. Like we know they're far from home. But now we also know that they only have 38 photon torpedoes, and they only had a crew complement necessary for their singular "find the Maqui ship" mission, and that their energy isn't unlimited and scavenging for those resources was going to be an important part of this series. That's what I've always understood the purpose of this b-plot to be.

There's Coffee In That Nebula is one of the more iconic lines in the show, which I think underlines how poor I think this show is. It's not quite Risk Is Our Business.

Shoutout to Vaughn Armstrong for being the lead guest actor in both Josh’s first TNG and VOY S episodes.

Lego my Eggo!

Watched this days ago and only now had time to read the comments and write my own. For me personally, this is probably the weakest episode of the season after Time and Again, and maybe a bit stronger than Parallax. By no means bad, and it gave us 2 great Janeway memes in "coffee in that nebula" and "that's a starfleet expression for 'get out'". Low C for me. As another comment pointed out, the creature was almost as large as Jupiter's orbit around the sun, so the comparatively tiny hole Voyager poked in it would likely be comparable to a single skin cell being punctured. Also anything that size will have a significant gravitational pull, so if every random asteroid that crashes into it could kill it, it wouldn't last very long. Still, Janeway has a good showing here. Even though it meant leaving them worse off energy wise, she took responsibility for the damage they caused and did everything she could to correct it. On top of that, I love when she laid down the law to Neelix. Nobody forced him to come along, and if he wants to stay, he needs to know these situations are going to happen from time to time. To be fair to Neelix though, while he is being a bit of a bitch, it's hard to blame him after what happened in Phage. Finally, I appreciate how open Janeway was to learning about and taking part in Chakotay's customs, and even incorporating them into the closing log. I get a lot of it is bullshit on account of the NA "expert" they hired, but it was still a nice moment.

Waffles. Not sure if anyone has said this, I can't scroll down without losing episode sync. ;) And I'm also not sure of the custom here concerning PAST episodes, I'm a new patron, so if this is out of line, sorry about it. In the second episode, they make reference to the Holodeck power systems being incompatible with the rest of the ship and on their own matrix. This was essentially the "excuse" regarding why they would ever use the Holodeck while struggling with power problems.

Waffles!

As a Richmond Native, I’m hoping to run into you at Galaxycon.

By the way — Ohio connection — when Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagen was nominated for governor of Ohio in the 2002 election, his wife at the time was … Kate Mulgrew (yes, the same Kate Mulgrew). So, had history worked out slightly differently, Capt. Janeway could have been the First Lady of Ohio.

“Fin” is 1940s slang for a $5 bill

Waffles I always watch the intro before the episode starts. 😊

I'm catching up on the releases here, but I wanted to say that I'm quite surprised that you two didn't cry when the cloud creature was hurt. Y'all just been so emotional lately, which you know, is a sign of aging 😜

Waffles

I am not fully Native American, but I have visited my animal guide and received advice with the help of a shaman and then on my own. Doing this is a real practice, which people from all over the Earth have done for millennia. The way they did it is in this episode is different than the way I learned to do it in some ways, but i’m sure there are many different ways to do it. In the tradition that I was taught, you only need a steady beat drumming to go into the altered state to visit your animal guide which we call a power animal. It is the first animal you see, and that animal has many similar characteristics to you. Everyone has a power animal. When I first discovered mine, it was with the help of a shaman who did the drumming for me. I saw my power animal, which is a salamander, and without speaking to me the shaman also knew that my power animal was the salamander after we finished. Since then I have visited it several times in groups and alone. You basically can ask for guidance in anything you would like even in relationships. If you do this activity with another person, you can ask for advice about them. When doing this in a group of people, I often get partnered with someone I’ve never met before, and yet receive advice that is very accurate to their situation and that there’s no way that I would’ve known what that advice would be without the power animal, as I had not spoken to them before. Sometimes, it has been very specific knowledge also. Most people who practice shamanism can introduce you to your power animal, and there are people that can do this in most populated areas. You can Google: “discover your power animal” and the name of your city to find someone near you.

This is a first watch for me. When it originally aired the reception was so bad from storms that I couldn’t see anything trying to watch it so I gave up and never got back to it until now.

I love the t-shirts!

A few weeks ago, I remember you guys asking if there were any in-depth analyses of Star Trek we thought you'd like, and I believe you guys would LOVE the Lorerunner's Star Trek ruminations. He talks a lot about the in-universe implications of episodes and the real-life production of them. He's also the one who coined the term "Cloud Effect" (and other phrases like the "Worf Effect", where the series regular tough guy keeps getting clobbered by the enemy of the week to show how strong the enemy is) Unfortunately, the Lorerunner is very inconsistent about avoiding spoilers so you might want to avoid his stuff until you're finishing Enterprise.

waffles

Already left a comment on the YouTube but I just felt compelled to rush back and say I really could have done without that Kes/Neelix kiss. We all would be better off without it, I suspect.

Attending the Con in Vegas will change things significantly. You WILL get spoilers. BIG ones. It will be unavoidable.

They offered an explanation for why they can keep running the holodeck. Supposedly it uses an isolated power system that they have a hard time interfacing with the ship's main grid. The writers were trying to justify having holodeck scenes/episodes while also having the ship operate under scarce resources. Seems a bit weak that the ship would be built that way and, even if so, that they would be unable to interface with it's power system when their survival depends on it. That said, replication probably is much more energy intensive than a holodeck system would be. Its not implausible that they have enough room in the energy budget for holodeck usage but have to ration replicator usage.

I didn't remember much about this one before rewatching it today, but I have to say I found it very charming. And pretty funny, actually.

Mmm, waffles... Great ep too 🤣

I'm happy for you guys getting to go to these conventions, but it feels almost inevitable you'll learn future stuff you'd rather not know....

Anyone for chicken and waffles?

What I learned from this is that I really do not understand wrestling and the enthusiasm some have for it. All just weird waffles talk to me.

WAFFLE PARTICLES!

Now I want Waffle House.

On this re=watch I was surprised by how funny this episode was. I definitely remembered several of the funny scenes but they were all jumbled in my memory, I didn't remember they were all in this one episode.

She said the thing!

As far as exploring the Nebula goes ..there was the idea in the beginning that it would have some energy particles they could gather. So it wasn't just to explore.

It so doesn't make sense to be running a holodeck when they are low on energy. But... whatever.

There's coffee and waffles in that nebula. This is a great example of Star Trek not taking itself too seriously by making fun of the nebula meme itself. Yes they use the nebula as a plot device all too often but even if this episode was a little technobabble heavy it was still a good watch. Fun fact Garrett Wang (Harry Kim) does a good impression of Janeway saying "There's Coffee in that nebular" in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXNQ1lMETyY

And in the morning I'm making waffles!

I literally asked the Holodeck question hoping to hear you guys say it would be a wrestling ring. Got exactly was i was hoping for 😄

Voyager episode is a great way to end the day. Might be better if I had some waffles

Thank you for doing reactions of Star Trek. You have allowed me to enjoy all of it as if I was watching it for the first time again. You are a missing part I never knew I needed. It's been a great few years with you, and it will be a great few more years continuing all of the rest.

The other week, Mulgrew commented to an obvious troll commenting on the Starfleet Academy show. She said her piece and then ended with a obvious "Dismissed!" She is awesome. Just like Shatner and Kirk, Mulgrew is Janeway.

Holodeck energy was explained away in the first regular episode of the season, Parallax. Something about the grids not being compatible because Tek Tek boom. Braga wrote that to have card blanche to run the Holodeck. Best to just roll with it.

Waffles & white boy reactions! lol Diet Dr. Pepper >>>>> any other diet soda (A&W Root beer is the only real contender). As far as the Native American lore, it may be fraudulent, but I treat it as fiction and just roll with it from that angle, and I still enjoy those scenes as a result. Modern shows tend to be very meta, self-aware, self-depreciating, which I only like in small doses. Here, because Star Trek rarely "jabs" at itself, it was hilariously delivered through Neelix.

Waffles. Do the road trip vid!

The pool hall guy you recognized from being in an episode of 'Barry' also played the "fake Kramer" on 'Seinfeld' when Jerry and George were trying to pitch a TV show based on Jerry's life.

It sucks. D. (watching these again after a couple years is reminding me how much I hated this show lol. I doubt I'll be here much for it, and ima stick to Deep Space 9)

So, who on the Team gets the Waffle Party? To the Episode: Watching Tom Paris, i think of TNG and how another Person in the Crew with his Job would have felt like. And the Episodes that come with this "Job".

More archive footage of you two twits wrestling please. Cheers.

A new low for the season. Really, really embarrassing.

I looked at the comments before watching and was trying to remember Janeway talking about waffles. I thought... wait, have I not seen this episode?

B'El-AAAAH-na! B'El-AAAAH-na!!! Not B'El-LAAAY-na! Sweet Christmas, even a low-level fan like me knows that!

“Waffles” and yes I use Pluto to watch lmao you guys are great. Solid episode for character development but also yea kinda boring plot. I’d say C level episode for me.

Alex walks onto the holodeck on Voyager with a drink and says "Show me the Enterprise - not bloody A, B, C or D"

They mentioned prior that the Holodeck uses it's own power grid, that's not compatible with the other power reserves. Gives them some leeway on continuing to use it in "raising spirits", mentioned in Parallax I believe it was.

Waiting to clean my stove and make some waffles but someone won't start the episode 😝

Waffles!

Waffles, drowned with syrup of coarse

Harry Kim said the cloud/nebula/creature was 7 AU in diameter, that's bigger than Jupiter's orbit around the sun. Is that the largest creature in any fiction? When they rode the current inside of it, Paris said they were going all of 200kph (125mph), how long would it take to go anywhere at that speed in something so large? Also at that scale, Voyager would be way smaller than a mosquito needle is to us, so how much damage could they really have done? Even with those glaring holes, I still love the plot of this episode, I'm a sucker for living space creatures and this one is fun to think about.

I hope you have the chance to have a really good talk to Terry Farrell. I've met her at a few conventions, and she's always been great fun to talk to, twice i had a photo taken with her too.

I'm glad you both enjoyed this, it's actually my favourite you've watched so far, i give it A. It hasso much great dialogue and character scenes.

"Thanks for spending your hard earned money on two doofuses like us." 😅

The ship takes diesel, the holodeck takes gasoline, the replicators need propane to make your Waffles. You can't mix and match the energy sources.

I think at some point it's very possible you two are going to end up on the other side of the table at cons. Keep it growing!

I like this episode, even though it is kind of light and fluffy like... waffles! Lol. But seriously, aside from the nice character moments, I also noticed some thematic connections this time. I like the parallel of Janeway trying to take care of her crew and Janeway trying to care of the cloud creature, both of whom need that support due to a decision Janeway herself made. Also, the use of a probe as a distraction to heal the creature relates to the use of the holodeck as a distraction to help bring Janeway and the crew closer together. It's like if that cloud can regenerate and survive on its own, then maybe Voyager and its crew can too. Perhaps I am reading too much into the episode, but that's what stood out to me on this rewatch. I really like Janeway following a different path from Picard here, even though Sandrine's is kind of goofy.

If you’re bar for Voyager is essentially TNG season 7 quality with a bit TOS flair, you will be happy for the whole run. It makes for a great contrast to DS9.

I like the focus on finding sources to power the ship, but doesn’t it feel like that should be something they’re planning for when it becomes a problem a year or two down the line? Instead, you kind of get the impression watching this episode that starships need to be plugged in once a week or their battery dies.

B'Elanna animal was most likely a tribble :P

Photon Torpedos left: 37/38

The 10 minute Youtube limit with TV episodes split into parts, what a blast from the past

the Halodeck was a crutch for the writers it should have never been done on this show, Holodeck slop within 5 shows of the pilot really pissed me off, still does

Time for the White Boy reactions! Haha!

Everyone knows these days that the culture consultant for Chakotay was a scam artist, and it results in a portrayal that definitely is a let-down as far as Native American rep, but I talked to a fan once who had a really interesting interpretation: she was neo-pagan and theorized that Chakotay's colony was more like that rather than settled by specifically a group of Cherokee or Nez Perce people. Aka, its not a single unbroken line of tradition, but a more diverse group of more modern people sort of assembling or reconstructing a set of practices and cultural elements from a bunch of varied ancestry. I always thought that was an interesting idea. Despite the wobbles in execution I really appreciate that Chakotay's spirituality is important to him... watching TNG all the way through for the first time as an adult I was a little surprised at how hostile it tended to be towards any kind of religion or spirituality.

I have a question about spoilers (NOT connected with this episode). Is it a spoiler if I state what actors thought about a writing development? This would be something already introduced. My statement wouldn't include anything about how long this would occur in a show.

We must have waffles, forth with!

I think the combination of DS9 and Voyager will be a good balance for viewing. It will help when the disappointing or just plain average episodes occur in either, since the styles will be distinct. I have my own suggestions for how Voyager should have 'felt', but it's probable that would have led to lower ratings and possibly a shorter overall run. I never once had the slightest issue with the main cast's ability or appeal.

Do you think Janeway would want waffles with that Coffee?

Janeway should try waffles with her coffee.

Picardo famously ad-libbed the line "I'm a doctor, not a nightlight!" during his audition, and was initially afraid it might have ruined his chances since ad-libbing was something one just "did not do" in an audition.

Firstly, how much aura did Kim lose in this episode?! “I remember being in my mother’s womb…” er… ok Kim, not sure what to do with that… Secondly, Josh casually dropping all those past wrestling clips - we need more of this! Always enjoy the ‘waffling’ (see what I did there?)

Came for the WAFFLES 🧇 Stayed for the White Boy Reactions.

"Its as thick as a Toarian ice storm out there" is just how I like my energy currents

I sometimes *just* watch the pre-watch and post-watch discussions - so definitely waffles.

Glad you guys are enjoying Voyager, I always felt like out of the three shows I'd love to work on the Enterprise, Serve on DS9 and Live on Voyager. It always felt like the grandest adventure with the most personal stakes, where you as a crewman would feel like you're really taking part and contributing in the struggle to get home, not dealing with some romulan or dominion plot with galactic consequences but just people somewhere far from home working towards one goal.

‘There’s coffee in that Nebula’ is basically Janeway’s most famous quote.

Why is everyone typing waffles???

There’s a pretty good VOY novel called Mosaic it’s all about Janeways life and backstory. You guys may want to read it? But one thing I remember that was kinda a joke was that in Janeways youth growing up tea house’s were a big thing like how in the 90’s coffee houses were big! You know like in friends they spend most their time in a coffee house. So Janeway was kinda an outlier because she preferred coffee.

late to the party, waffles!

Janeway and her coffee. I wonder what other lengths she will go to over the run of the show to ensure she has a constant supply ;) Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Can't wait until the moment where their pronounciation gets fixed like Marc Alaimo in DS9. Great reaction though!

Waffles, you intro discussions are always great.

Waffles

I think a lot of what Alex and Josh are enjoying is Jeri Taylor's influence.

You guys should make a pilgrimage to Ticonderoga, NY and see the TOS Enterprise set recreation. Best way to walk the decks of an Enterprise.

Waffles! Who would dare to skip your witty intros?

1000% waffles. A good chunk of my enjoyment of your videos is the commentary. Its why I'm here. I prolly wouldn't care too much about your road trip vid but its great

It does hurt my enjoyment of the Chakotay scenes knowing that the Native American consultant was a fraud, but I do appreciate the earnest attempt to explore different cultures

My favorite scene is Janeway doing the pool hustle.

Waffles. 🧇

Waffles. Always waffles.

I've watched this so many times already, but this was the first time I noticed Janeway's comedic acting in the background when Tom and Harry are talking. She's trying to pour herself a coffee, but there isn't any left in any of the pots she tries, and she gets more and more frustrated. Just made it a tiny bit better, and it was good to begin with.

Go for waffles 🧇

Don’t forget that in one of the first episodes they said the holodeck power is not compatible with the other ship systems. So in-universe that means they aren’t wasting useful energy when using the holodeck. Out of universe, it frees up the writers to write holodeck stories if they want to.

I was totally going to open with a comment about Janeway’s 'leave Neelix on the side of the road' energy, but you guys beat me to it in the reaction! You’re spot on—these are the building blocks, and VOY is doing a great job establishing the chemistry (and the friction) between the crew. A few other standouts for me: 🚀 The absurdity of NEELIX BROWN-NOSING Janeway by complimenting her lipstick in the glow of the galley heat lamps. 🚀 JANEWAY’S STUDENT-LIKE OPENNESS during the spirit guide ritual—she’s so ready to learn, even if the "science" behind the scenes was a total fraud. 🚀 THE DOCTOR BEING A CLASS ACT for the first time by giving B’Elanna props for the save in front of the whole bridge crew. This is good shit. Loving this journey with you guys!

There is Coffee in this Nebula :) i love it =)

Probably one of Janeway’s most famous lines…”there’s coffee in that nebula!”

Your guys’ talking about Steel Cage matches reminded me of CM Punk “ending” Jeff Hardy’s WWE career during a Steel Cage match on SmackDown in 2009.

Waffles! I'm with you guys. The plot is irrelevant to me, I just like this for the character moments. There are some Voyager episodes where I love the plot, but mostly, I'm just here for the characters. Especially Janeway. She takes no nonsense from anyone and I love it.

This seems like a perfect episode for you guys! They only barely have a plot and even that was as reluctant as possible. "Yeah, space thing, whatever." They just want to get back to French Pool with Harry and Tom and I can't say I blame them. B for brillante. Also, waffles.

Waffles ;)

Waffles... also it has been mentioned somewhere that holographic energy systems are separate and not compatible with the ships other systems. (mileage may vary)

Beh-lana. Like beh-lahn-nah. Not Beyleyna

"Remember when YouTube videos were only 10 minutes long" I remember in the early days of the internet when VOY came out there was a website where a guy retold every new episode in the fashion of a short story. Because there were no videos at all! And guess what? This guy, who also was a stand-up comic and a quite talented writer had a big fanbase - especially in the US Navy. Because the sailors couldn't get television or VHS on their ships to watch the episodes. So they read them online. Different times.

Voyager Well it is time. There is enough proof that Star Trek Jarjar and Village of the Damned chick are banging. That means they enter the scoreboard. Also, by our past judgement, holo-hotties count. We are sure that Paris did some holo-dicking with the one holo-woman. So Paris scores again!! The scoreboard was watching real close for any other possible holo-hookups but it didn’t look like anyone else pulled the Barkley. SEX SCORE BOARD Paris – 2 new +1 Neelix – 1 new +1 Kes – 1 new +1 As always, if you disagree feel free to state your case as a reply.

"B'Elaiiiinna" It's like Marc Alamo in reverse. Hilarious.

In every series, you’ll see the actors’ obvious stand-ins and stunt doubles as extras…but it always seems like it’s extra noticeable in Voyager. Feels like everyone had their doubles in that last holodeck scene. Didn’t detract from the episode…just something you notice when you watch these things like 15 times.

Waffles =)

Maybe by 2360 and away from earth different American Indian traditions merged technically there was grief, everyone is grieving not being near home

I wonder how many takes it took for Mulgrew to sink that no look side pocket shot!

Geez guys, don't you remember Episode 3 Parallax? It was established the holodeck has a different energy matrix, not compatible with any other systems. I like waffles, but I also like pancakes and french toast. It is kind of like TNG, DS9, and VOY. They all have their own appeal.

I said it on the YouTube early viewing and I'll say it here-- WAFFLES!

Hey! I’m not skipping the intro. It’s part of this adventure.

For these I watch you guys on ipad and the show on tv

You're too good to us ;)

Waffles. (But only because that happened to be the part of the video I skipped to. 😅)

Love this episode

🧇🧇🧇🧇🧇🧇🧇🧇