UNCUT - Time and Again (VOY S1E4) | Star Trek Journey 343

It seems like there's some differences in the episodes on prime vidéo where im Watching vs whatever platform you guys are using - I think there's a different length of gap after the intro sequence. Any chance you can make it easier to visually resync more often?

I assume because of copyright, but any way to run these both playing at the same time? I'm on my phone.

Also, I'm guessing you guys know this already but the actors for Kim and Paris did a podcast called The Delta Flyers (videos on patreon, audio on spotify etc) where they watch the whole show (they are now watching DS9 with Jadzia's and Quark's actors). Really great behind the scenes stuff for each episode, plus Robert Duncan McNeill (Paris) is a director and has really great insights into how it was shot.

Phew, good thing they looked exactly like humans

Actually this episode shows the prime directive should not be followed. If Janeway never revealed themselves, she wouldn't have been in the exact spot to stop the destruction of the planet. It was her interfering and telling them the truth that caused them to give her the phaser and let her closed the rift.

To me, that planet's clothing style looked like a Dig Dug level.

I'm glad that Josh likes the away missions so much, because Voyager has some of the craziest away missions in the Delta Quadrant. On the topic of the Prime Directive, it's still a vital part of the philosophy of Trek. It's based on the idea that there are almost never good results when we interfere with primitive cultures. The franchise is also very secular humanist and rarely acknowledges any higher power at work, but the rule is erring on the side of caution that just in case species have a fate to not change it. They address consequences on series like Lower Decks.

Heads up. Janeway DOUBLES as the ships Chief Science Officer. She's essentially the Captain AND Spock // Picard AND Data // Sisko AND Jadzia ...

Now I remember why I hate this episode. NO BALLS If they had committed to killing off that planet as a result of the rescue it could have been great. But to hit that reset button and then pad your time at the end with nonsense repeat scenes that serve no purpose?? What a waste.

i liked this episode

If the little blonde boy looked familiar he was the little blind boy in Dumb and Dumber that bought their dead parakeet

My take for this episode was: >I love how Tuvok stops the episode right before the finale just to throw shade at Kes's purported psychic powers. He doesn't have anything to add or a different suggestion to make, he just wants everyone to know that believing Kes is illogical. Glad you two caught it too.

Regarding the absence of tension in an episode where they have a chance of getting home, you can still have tension in this context by the prospect of shortening their journey. You're not going to keep a show running for 70 years. This isn't Doctor Who.

Planet Burger King. 😆

I'm not going to comment on this episode since it never happened.

I do like this episode. I especially liked it my first time watching the show. However, once Janeway and Paris start getting grilled by the rebel faction who refuses to believe them no matter what they say for 20 mins straight, I get super bored of the banter. Once Janeway reveals who she really is, the episode feels like it comes to a hault, just padding it's time until it's revealed that they were the ones who caused the explosion. Sure, Paris sacrificing himself was good, but I wish they would have done something more interesting during those 20 mins on the planet than just being interrogated and used by people we don't like and don't care about. Maybe they should have made those characters sympathetic instead? Spend those 20 mins getting us to care about these people and their cause? All in all, a B from me.

I never really understood the dislike for Voyager. It was one of my favorite Star Trek series. It’s premise is basically like TOS and TNG but as they are finding their way home. I really like how one of the goals was to keep Gene Roddenberry‘s original premise in the series. But still add some additional things that Roddenberry wouldn’t have done.

Ugh I've hated this episode. A boring C at best.

candy corn outfits! LOL, - Hmmm that's interesting, people saying they're not utilizing the premise of being so far from home? Voyager is not my favorite Star Trek series, but i felt like they utilized that premise in a great way throughout the entire show.

An S???? Lol. Okay trying to be open minded but some of the acting in this is so cringe. It's fun hearing how excited your guys are about this ep even though I'm not there.

As I have said elsewhere I did see a lot of TNG the series and TOS movies as a kid, and though I saw Enterprise when I was in my early twenties, it was Voyager that brought me back to Trek in my mid twenties, and started in season 2 so I saw these after some of those, I still love early Voyager

By not using the premise, I think people wanted the show to be more like the Battlestar Gallactica remake where the show is focused more on survival. Things like, how are they going to survive out here without a star base ? Or how bad is the tension going to be between the Maquis and Starfleet crews regarding decisions affecting their survival? They didn't just want TNG or TOS all over again with a new backdrop.

gotta love the low effort on aliens species just being a colored t-shirt

Someone please make cuts of these guys comments ... for future reference.

It bodes well that you guys like these early episodes. There's many early episodes that I'd put in the category of DUET. One episode I didn't originally like for some reason, but now I love it... looking forward to that reaction.

Well this episode is boring, doesn't develop the overarching narrative, and doesn't have any character development, but at least it doesn't make any sense

Just thinking of this episode, not comparing it to anything, nothing meta, nothing big picture, its a B

The ending is the featherweight equivalent of "Yesterday's Enterprise", as in the whole episode never happened and Guinan/Kes ask the Captain for some re-assurance everything is ok now... "Yesterday's Enterprise" had heft though. This does not.

I get annoyed by the “not utilizing the premise” line as well. In some ways, it comes across like a line someone used in a critique that tons of people just latched onto and ran with. Janeway said they’d be stopping along the way to explore, making any detour along the journey a part of the show’s premise.

Just for fun: Origin and history of flash-point flash-point(n.), "temperature at which vapor will ignite momentarily," 1869, from flash (v.) + point (n.). Figurative use by 1955. Slightly earlier as flashing-point (1867).

A couple of things that got me thinking: 1. The "button". 2. Guess they felt we needed another Troi on board. I wonder if we'll be hearing more "Captain, I sense happiness & joy from the cheering, hugging people on the viewscreen."

Safe to say, you're going to love Voyager. Congrats Alex on going full-time too! You seem much more chipper.

I rank this episode as "okay". But I can't blame anyone for ranking it an E. After all, the episode literally erased *itself* from canon.

This is an alright sci-fi episode for me. Could have happened in any series in the franchise. Probably exists more to delve into Kes's abilities that anything else. The next episode is much more engaging.

The 2268 date was Tuvok giving an example of a known to OUR characters Polaric energy disaster that outlawed its use, as part of their investigation into the Polaric energy disaster that they JUST THEN felt the shockwave from. TA: Boo, this is needless exposition, we're checking out! Also TA: wait, what's going on? I dunno, I was only half paying attention to the exposition. I think it's: *wrong interpretation ensues.* TA audience: 🤨🫤🙄 😅😂

Where was the 100 years coming from? I only ever remember them being sent back the day before because of the explosion shockwave expanding backwards vs forwards but only one day. If talking about the ban on expementing with it in the 2260's that wasn't related to the time period of this incedent...only thing I can think of. They weren't detected there at the end because they were scanning for the combadges alert signal....they no longer had the combadges. I wondered if that would be mentioned, the two off the bat time shenanigan episodes but I liked them. I think the basis for the Prime Directive makes sense even if not all episodes/situations show or explore it in the best way. I'm thinking of a line later in Voyager so won't mention it here yet haha. Also an episode of the Orville in that they have a similar directive they had an episode that I more directly addressed it well....also a good show! Kes's feeling is reminiscent of Guinan in "Yesterday's Enterprise" or those kinds of instances....in the end she know's even if the others don't.

For detractors of the execution of the premise, what we wanted and expected was what we eventually got in Battlestar Galactica. (I will say I like Voyager season 1, though. It's 2 and 3 where it lost me.)

My feelings on the episode are that it's a C episode. Might be a B just for the old school kitsch, but the "it was all a dream" resolution (contrary to almost all other time travel resolutions in Star Trek) really rankled me.

Janeway isn't married. Mark is her fiance

It sounds like the show will be pretty much what you want it to be, it's just not what people were expecting when it launched.

This is a fine example of a mediocre TNG premise that feels more egregious in the context of Voyager's main conceit. I might care more about the ethics of saving Planet Shopping Mall if our characters weren't trying to get back home. But as it stands, it's not our problem. Stop wasting time on these pointless pit stops.

Ah the First voyager Reset button ending a historic occasion

It's nice that Voyager doesn't spend two seasons finding its legs. It's unfortunate that it never gets better than the first season. (Don't get me wrong, there are some [admittedly not many] REALLY GOOD episodes throughout, but it never achieves the sustained high quality of TNG or DS9.)

Why do I feel if this was a DS9 episode they would hate it

Neelix is in the files

All I remembered from this episode was the annoying kid and the dreadful costumes. Not a favourite of mine by any means.

"S as in exactly what I want from this show" Voyager bros, I think we're gonna be alright

Watching you fail to grasp that the shockwave at the beginning was from the explosion that destroyed the planet was bizarre lmao. 2268 😂😂😂😂 Also Janeway's application of the prime directive stunk here as much as Picard's in "Homeward".

Yeah, time travel in general makes no sense. Janeway even laughed off the idea of trying to understand it last episode. Which is valid. Makes for fun TV, though. And at least 2 fun Terminator movies that also made no sense.

Congratulations to the both of you in making this channel a full time career!

I like seeing Janeway and Paris together, It's cute knowing that Kate Mulgrew and Robbie McNeill quickly bonded over being the only cast members with young children at the time and became close friends. She called into his podcast a year or two ago and they talked about how their trailers on set were parked next to each other and how they would often just talk or listen to each others phone calls because neither of them would ever close their door and the doors faced each other, they were pretty much part of each others lifes during Voyager's run They still hang out, when they said goodbye on the podcast it was something like "Love you, see you on Sunday!"

My episode 3 Grades Where No Man Has Gone Before B(?) Code of Honor (The TNG E of Es) A Man Alone (C) Time and Again (C) -Peak Performance is the most disappointing episode of TNG. How could they not have Riker use his secret one second warp jump to do the Picard Maneuver!!?! Fuck that Ferengi copout shit!! -Janeway was called "Nicole" initially. Her name was changed when Kate Mulgrew took over the role. -It makes sense Sisko has to grow into the role, he's a commander. He has much less experience than Picard. Janeway. and Kirk. He was an absolute badass in Paradise, but imo he arrives as being Captain material in Past Tense 2. -ALLOW ME TO SCREAM INTO THE VOID ****No time travel complaints hold up in Star Trek. As much as I hate Parallels, establishing infinite universe means establishing infinite timelines. Any change or paradox in the timeline is nothing more than a Worf Jump.**** -Enjoying how you guys are predicting what you patron takes you will find the most obnoxious.

In terms of not using the premise, when most people watched the pilot, they expected it to be a serialized show in the style of DS9. They expected Voyager to be what the Battlestar Galactica remake was. Most people didn't realize the whole premise is just to get back to the TOS roots with episodic "on the frontier" Trek.

If Josh likes episodes that planet hop, VOY does its fair share, and ENT had quite a bit of that. Two of ENT's most well known and controversial episodes were that type.

Bell Anna. The name Anna is already pretty popular female name in the US, just add bell in front of it. The explosion on the planet happened at the start of the episode when they got hit by the shockwave and Kes woke up in panic, not 100 years in the past. Their guns looked like projectile weapons to me, not phaser. It probably sounded weird because they didn't use gunpower (look up "Gyrojet" for a real-life space-age gun). Everything went back to normal at the end because Janeway prevented the rescue attempt destroying the planet, so since the planet isn't destroyed, they didn't go there and didn't get stuck, completely closing the time-loop paradox. I love these science heavy episodes that add a touch of fantasy (time travel, Kes's dreams) in a very smart way that makes sense within the universe and respect the actual science behind it. The writers respected the audience's intelligence here.

The prime directive is a narrative tool used to explore colonialism. Just building a military base near a primitive culture, like the indigenous people of Melanesia, and otherwise ignoring them, it caused the Melanesians to form a whole religion and cult, the cargo cults, which caused their entire people to become terrorists. Who Watches the Watchers is directly inspired by the Melanesian cargo cults. And beneficial interfering, like introducing antibiotics to primitive cultures, completely destroys them as their populations explode, and mass starvation, crime, etc. ensues. When more advanced cultures come into contact with less advanced cultures, every single time in human history the less advanced culture comes off worse from the interaction. This is what Roddenberry introduced the Prime Directive / General Order Number One to explore.

This is what is meant by ignoring the premise—they’re not just cut off from annoying admirals in Starfleet. They are cut off from their entire civilization. They don’t know when or if they will have enough fuel or food to last more than X weeks or months. It’s a MINIMUM of 75 years until they can get home (unless something unexpected is discovered, which they can’t count on). They should be preparing for a 75-year voyage, which means they should be considering making this not just a Starfleet starship on a mission. They should be considering making this their ENTIRE LIVES. So that means what? A dictatorship by a captain and command structure decided by Starfleet in circumstances that no longer apply to them? They should be considering how to handle ideas of governing and individual freedom and how to balance that with practical survival. What might that mean? Maybe some kind of democratic representation in major decision-making? It might be hard to come up with such a system, but they need to start TALKING about it. And most of all—we need to start pairing up and having babies! We need to have people who can take over from us if and when we get too old and frail in the next 75 years. We need to consider whether to take on new crew members to replenish personnel who might become infirm or die. We need to consider what happens if we come upon a planet where at least some people decide to just live the rest of their lives there. Are you just going to assume that the captain can say “no, you can’t do that”? How would members of the crew—as individuals, in groups, and as a whole—feel about that? THAT’S the series of questions that the premise throws in your faces AS SOON AS you figure out “it might take us 75 or more years to get back to civilization.” The fact that Harry Kim can say “I’m not going on a double-date because I have a girlfriend back home and I am counting on the hope that’s she will just decide to wait for me for SEVENTY-FIVE YEARS” means that Harry Kim has given ZERO serious thought to the situation he is in. Okay, so that’s only one person on the ship. But, like, EVERYBODY ELSE on the ship is exactly like him and living in complete denial? This is supposed to be a crew of highly intelligent and highly trained people and they’re all just wearing impenetrable blinders? Okay, so maybe it hasn’t been that long yet. A few days? Weeks? Months? Maybe it hasn’t sunk in with everybody yet. But NOBODY? Not one of these highly intelligent people has even started to think through the implications of the situation they are in and started suggesting that they need to start considering fundamentally changing the way they are thinking about what this “mission” is now?

One little detail I enjoy about this episode that you guys missed is, when Janeway and Paris get their Burger King uniform clothing, you can see behind them that they traded their Starfleet uniforms in for them. Janeway's uniform is in the display window of the store on a mannequin or whatever. Nice job production crew for adding that little detail in.

As much as I've come to dislike time travel paradox BS, I still enjoyed this episode.

I admit, I think I’d have been more into the episode if the clothes weren’t so…hmm otherwise, it’s still a good episode and nice to confirm that we aren’t stuck on a ship for seasons on end and can explore planets.

Just wondering if the guys are in that exited phase when they start a ST show and get carried away a bit on that wave of feeling. I don't think this episode is in any way bad, but it also isn't convincing. I didn't expect early episodes to hit their stride, but the overal vibe of the early episodes did worry me.

I have to say, as someone who is not a big Voyager fan due to common reasons that I’m sure will get litigated into infinity during the watch of the series, im very glad the guys are enjoying it so much and have reasonable expectations rather than being a little sour on Voyager like me! It will be fun to see a genuine charitable take on the show from folks who also seem to be appreciating DS9. It would be a sad day that the guys are stuck watching a show that they’re bummed on week after week.

Okay guys the disaster happened only a day earlier, when Tuvok mentioned an incident 100 years ago he was talking about a similar disaster on a Romulan planet. I like this one, yet again i give B.

I disagree with putting aside the prime directive. Save the dinosaurs, doom the humans. Not every species will make it.

I don't agree that this episode makes an argument one way or the other for the Prime Directive. I don’t think it’s actually involved at all. They only go to the planet because it’s already dead. It’s not like they made a choice to intervene in a pre-warp civilization and that led to the planet’s destruction. The choice they made was to investigate a catastrophe and only through time weirdness did they end up being the cause. Don’t think the Prime Directive can be applied to dead civilizations. At that point, you're doing archaeology.

Wasn't expecting such a high rating from this reaction, thought you were going mid tier but glad you enjoyed it. Really happy you're enjoying Voyager so far. After TOS, Voyager is the show I rewatch the most. Glad you didn't let the negativity from some of these comments influence you.

So nice to see you guys enjoyed both Parallax and Time and Again as you did! I was really excited about Voyager when it first came out and these first two standalone episodes really left a great impression on me. I love the sci-fi problems and the character moments. And a great use of Kes's apparent latent telepathic abilities.

From last reaction's Belina to... Belayna (@55:38). Almost got it! Definitely improving!

I would generally have rated this one a D for Don't Care, mostly because I find it particularly boring. Not like Imaginary Friend boring where it's flat out painful to watch. It's got just enough interesting elements to counter balance it to the point where I basically feel nothing watching it. Definitely one of the more uninspired alien designs. I will concede one of the comments did have a good point that they looked human so that Tom and Janeway could blend in, but I still can't fully give it a pass. There are however some good moments with Tom and the kid, and I like that Janeway pivoted so quickly when she realized it was their fault. Also compared to Code of Honor, there's nothing egregious here, though I still think A Man Alone was a bit better. C-. Once again though, this is my least favourite S1 episode, and it's just "meh", so if you're liking even this one as much as you do, it bodes well for the season.

I think you guys talked over the line. The federation banned the use of Polaric weapons 100 years ago after an accident with the Romulans. Paris and Janeway are transported 1 day back --- I.E the accident happens (in the original timeline) the day before.

I'm sure we'll get into it later in the series but I'm pretty much happy with how much they use the "premise". Classic Trek is always a hopeful look at the future - I don't really want bleak survivalist Trek where they're limping from planet to planet looking for deuterium, counting every last torpedo, all the while the Marquis and Starfleet crews are having phaser fights around the warp core. That would get old _fast_. It's not really suited to Trek for me - much better in a completely separate series.

Tuvok and B'Elanna simultaneously whipping out their tricorders when it becomes clear Something Is Fishy is one of my favorite little moments 😆

Congratulations on going full time.

Was a day ago not 100 years. Tuvok was referencing a test disaster that the romulans had 100 years ago.

I don't think that the lack of alien make-up was a budgetary issue. It was obviously so that the Captain and Paris could pass as natives.

Congratulations guys on being full time YouTubers! Awesome I hope it’s awesome. This other guy I follow he mostly does Star Trek/ comics and political commentary I heard he makes like 77k a year? 🤷‍♂️ But it’s great if you’re successful. You guys somehow got hung up on 100 years? 😂 Janeway and Tom have only travelled back in time a single day this civilization died a day ago..

I'm glad you guys are now living the dream - living doing a job you enjoy! If Josh already has experience as a D&D DM, you should totally do a TTRPG on Patreon at some point. Apparently there is a Star Trek version called 'Star Trek Adventures'. I'm glad you enjoyed this one, this to me is a standard mid-grade Voyager episode.

Look, fellas, if you scale back to one Trek episode a month, DS9, VOY, and ENT can basically get you to retirement.

I am so very glad that you both are now "full time" with this channel. That's great news and it makes me happy. I certainly am one of the "Voyager defectors," and while I maintain my lukewarm-esque opinion about Voyager as a whole, I'm not hatewatching your journey. I *want* y'all to enjoy yourselves, and maybe you'll teach me a thing or two about this series that I haven't considered seriously before.

Glad you enjoyed! I always liked this one, or at least, the time travel stuff in it and I love the pairing of Janeway and Paris. It's great how positive you guys are about Voyager so far. This show gets so much criticism and negativity it's refeshing to see people enjoying it the way I do. Hope that continues!

A little heavy on the technobabble but the cumulative effect of all the elements of this episode I find to be quite haunting and effective.

Kes is very Guinan-y

I love that they introduce this alien species by gaslighting the kid. "There are no demons, kid! It's all those damned comic books you read!" Otherwise, decent time travel episode. It is basically an All Good Things mini-redux, but I'm always up for a good "we caused the paradox we're solving" dilemma.

i like to think that starfleet academy offers improv classes for when u need to quickly go undercover 😅

And that wasn't a very good episode by Yoyager standards :)) It's fair to say that Yoyager had its best first season up until its release.

There was a Captains Log in the last episode, Parallax. Obviously not going to be every episode but looks like they're not abandoning it altogether

I probably would have enjoyed this episode more if we hadn't just seen the exact same premise in "All Good Things" over at TNG

One thing...It was just one day in the past. I'm unclear how you thought it was 100 years but it was def supposed to just be a day in the past.

And at the end the Doctor still doesn't know that there are new crewmembers

What do some fans mean when they say VOY has not 'utilised its premise'? They mean it wasn't like Moore's BSG. You know - the Not-Star Trek show from TEN years later.

You know, beyond the outfits/costumes, I have very little memory of this episode. Based on that fact alone, I have to say I enjoyed that! I enjoy good paradox/timey-whimey stories (when done well) and this certainly does the job, although it seems it's lifted the ending (reset) of Cause and Effect, to a degree. Except no-one remembers anything. Ah, Janeway and the Prime Directive. Start keeping count ;)

I'm sure nobody else cares, but this made me look up the origin of "flashpoint". flash-point(n.) also flashpoint, "temperature at which vapor will ignite momentarily," 1869, from flash (v.) + point (n.). Figurative use by 1955. Slightly earlier as flashing-point (1867).

The 1970s are calling and the Houston Astros want their uniforms back....

The "using the premise" take was about the Starfleet-Maquis relations, not the 75 years from home premise.

I've never agreed with the complaints of "not utilizing the premise" because I don't think a Star Trek show where the focus is surviving and struggling would be good for 7 26 episode seasons. They touch on it every now and again with trading or sending teams to get resources from planets and that's enough really. As for the Maquis/Starfleet conflict, people seem to think that the Maquis are completely ideologically opposite from Starfleet and that's just not the case. Most Maquis are just civilians who got fucked over by a bad political situation and some Starfleet people joined them because they too believed in the cause of reclaiming those colonies from the Cardassians. These people are now in the Delta quadrant and that cause is 70,000 lightyears away, they are going to work together with their fellow Federation people because that gives them the best chance of getting home.

I agree Chakotay is great

Voyager SEX SCORE BOARD Another tough one to call. BUT, we have decided to “conditionally” give Paris a score with one of the sisters. This might be controversial but Paris got Kim to do the double date. We have NO faith in Kim scoring but we think with a wing man Paris could throw a bit of rizz (I hope that is used correctly). Paris seems closer to Riker than Dr. Bashir. We do give a lot to assuming it did happen on the scoreboard. That is why we are counting it. Now this could change if we hear next episode that Kim clock-blocked OR we could add to it if we hear Paris really pulled and did-da-double. Still no way to score the Star Trek Jar Jar and the Village of the Damned chick. Board Paris – 1 new At least one DeLaney sister – 1 new

Not sure how you got it stuck in your brains that this happened 100 years ago, it was 1 day ago. But I guess it doesn't really matter for the plot.

Janeway can really take a bump to the cranium 💥

Annoying kid actor aside I like this one. Voyager has the strongest first season for me.

My expectations when it comes to them being stranded is less with finding a way home and more me wanting to feel that they are stranded on resources and surviving their way through space. Also the Maquis Starfleet divide would be there, that's utilising the premise for me not finding the way back home. But once again we are just three episodes in so I will see what you will think of them utilising their premise. throughout the series.

That scene with the Doctor seems like it belonged in the last episode, since he already met Kes.

Time and Again. Cause and Effect. Brannon Braga clearly given the job of naming Voyager episodes.

Excellent time to post. (as a clarification, Belanna detected a substance that was banned in the Federation 100 years ago, the explosion here in the Delta Quadrant was the day before.) production probably put these two episodes together glad you enjoyed it. You guys have interesting ideas, you should write.

It's a well made episode, but I can't stand Prime Directive episodes and I don't agree with it 80% of the time, soooo...there's just nothing for ME PERSONALLY in this episode. Soooo.... C (subjectively! I recognize it's decent, but...not my type of fiction)

What a nice way to begin my morning :-)

Good morning Josh! Thanks man. Watching momentarily :)

Thank you guys for uploading two hours earlier now, its very convenient for me