Top 10 Episodes - TNG Season 7

Alright, took me a week to get around to this one, but here's the summary. Alex Josh Audience 1 - Inheritance 1 - Lower Decks 1 - Lower Decks 2 - Lower Decks 2 - Genesis 2 - All Good Things... 3 - The Pegasus 3 - Inheritance 3 - The Pegasus 4 - Parallels 4 - All Good Things... 4 - Parallels 5 - Genesis 5 - Parallels 5 - Preemptive Strike 6 - All Good Things... 6 - Attached 6 - Inheritance 7 - Attached 7 - The Pegasus 7 - Genesis 8 - Dark Page 8 - Preemptive Strike 8 - Attached 9 - Sub Rosa 9 - Eye of the Beholder 9 - Dark Page 10 - Eye of the Beholder 10 - Dark Page 10 - Gambit Honorable mentions Preemptive Strike Sub Rosa Eye of the Beholder Journey's End Phantasms Sub Rosa Thine Own Self Only 12 episodes between all 3 lists, so positioning on the lists aside, we're all pretty well lined up this season. For some reason I wasn't expecting Pegasus to be on Josh or Alex's list, or at least not that high. A little surprised Gambit made the patrons list. I always really appreciated Inheritance, but I suspect the reactions may have played a role in convincing the patrons to put that and Dark Page on the list. Perhaps also Genesis, but I suspect for every hater there's someone else who finds it to be a fun episode.

We need a Tear List: episodes that managed to pry a tear out of your stone hearts.

Getting rid of Ron Jones (composer) was one of Star Trek's worst own-goals. A lot of the great early TNG episodes stick out because the music does so much to create the atmosphere. Something like "Q Who" would have been nowhere near as creepy or distinctive with a season 5 or 6 soundtrack.

A spinoff with Data, Worf and Troi? Lmao. You guys be wilding as usual. Also Genesis on the Patreon list lmfao. You guys are way too easy to influence.

YOU'RE NOT NANA, NANAS DEAD

My Bold prediction is that Josh and Alex will both like Star Trek Generations more than The Voyage Home.

"What do you want?" I want end-on-the-scene Josh! You ended *after* the scene and it wasn't even a shot of an empty room!

I hate Sub Rosa not because it is something experimental and out there but because of how misogynistic it is and how insulting it is to Beverly Crusher's character. This candle ghosts, lets call it what it is, seduces and rapes generations of women and the end scene is Beverly going "you know what, despite it all, he made Grandma very happy" after an entire episode where she behaves out of her control with some laughable acting because shes under the control of this candle. But its also really funny as it is morally repugnant I just laugh at it and not with it.

I actually like the poker scene episode idea. It can be called "In The Cards."

I think the direction in Genesis is legit good outside of any Gates McFadden bias. I never knew who directed this episode, and I don't care who directed what. Direction is not normally something I even notice unless it's an episode like Cause and Effect. But I realized this time that one of the main reasons why I find this episode so intriguing to watch is the direction. It keeps you pulled in and fully immersed in this new primordial world we're exploring. It makes everything feel both suspenseful and really interesting.

I hate Sub Rosa but love Genesis. And I am one of the people who hold Star Trek to a higher standard for being scientifically accurate. But it depends on the episode. I let Genesis slide because it's done well if you just accept it for what it is, and I don't have a problem with stuff like Anti-Time in the finale, because it works for that episode. In fact, I think the only time the science ever bothered me was in Second Sight because it felt like they just really didn't care in that episode. There can be a lot of different reasons why we like some episodes but don't like others without necessary falling into a set formula of what we watch Star Trek for. We all have our own ideas about what we think Star Trek is and/or should be. But we also have widely different tolerances for how far we're willing to stretch that idea for certain episodes. I don't like episodes like Man of the People or Sub Rosa because 1) they're bad. And 2) I don't like that type of humor. I don't find those episodes funny. Instead, I find them very cringe and uncomfortable. Without the humor, there is nothing in those episodes for me. Plus I think they both borderline glorify toxic things, and I don't like stuff that I feel sends bad examples out into the world, especially if people laugh it off and dismiss what's toxic. I can understand why other people like these episodes though and can get on board with the "so bad it's good" quality to them. And I still wouldn't say "they're not Star Trek." I just think they suck and Star Trek can do far better. I also don't like episodes that make no sense to me canonically. For instance, I don't like Qpid pretty much solely because I don't buy that Q would care at all about Vash or teaching Picard about love. I also feel like Vash is a Mary Sue in this episode. The whole Sherwood Forest thing I wouldn't have minded if there were a better reason behind it.

I remember back in the day, DS9 trailers would air after the TNG episodes finished. I vividly remember my mom not liking the DS9 trailers because she thought they were scary. My experience with this was only during the last half of season 7 though.

I think with season 7, there are still the same amount of great episodes, bad episodes, and ok episodes as any other TNG season. The amount of good episodes got cut down and were put into a new category special to S7 called "....huh? episodes" (sub rosa, genesis, masks) and that makes S7 place in the Trek universe a little weird. Still a great season of TV.

Love both of your Lists.

I think the bow that Preemptive Strike needed on top was Ro explaining that Picard showed her what Starfleet is supposed to be, but the Maquis showed her that they still need to do a lot of work. That would work better than "I found a home on the Enterprise but I found a real home with the Maquis". It kind of undercuts her connections on the Enterprise.

Given your love for poker, may I suggest Rounders as a great movie, that you may not have seen.

Novelizations of movies can add a lot! Often it’s based on an original script and contains the cut parts. I was in the hospital around the time the original Star Wars came out in 77. I read a novelization done by George Lucas which included a lot of scenes cut from the movie. Now for the original Star Wars film the cuts were good as they greatly helped pacing. But the novelization filled in all sorts of gaps. But that was not the one Alex watched…this one was done when there was only one Star Wars movies. It depends on the writer of the novelization of course.

i am preparing my list of 26, Disaster, Data’s Day, the Wounded, Lower Decks, the Defector, Remember me, The enemy, Cause and Effect, Rascals, Schisims, Future imperfect, Offspring, Mind’s eye, Hero Worship, Ensigns of Command, Arsenal of Freedom, Coming of age, Frame of Mind, Drumhead, I borg, Deja Q,A Fistful of Datas, Face of the enemy, Samaritain snare, honorable mentions to Alliegence, Royale, Suspicions, Gambit, Haven, and 11001001. all deserve high places on the list

re: Novelizations - I'd always seek out novelizations back when practically every movie was guaranteed one as standard tie-in merch. The writers were usually working off of an earlier version of the script, so there would often be information/characters/scenes in the novel that never made it to screen. Sometimes you'd get fun extras, and sometimes it would be "oh, yeah, I can see why they'd cut that." 🤣

I guarantee you guys will have multiple new favorite episodes that will match or exceed your love for these TNG ones in DS9, VOY, and ENT.

"Lower Decks" is one that I always liked, but came to appreciate even more rewatching it with your reaction.

Final Destination style spoiler avoidance sounds like a great sketch idea. Also, Sub Rosa and Fight Club are both trash. Don’t put me in your boxes! ;)

I understand enjoying Genesis (I do too, just less than you two did), but defending the nonsense of them turning into animals with 'werewolves aren't real, either, it's all fake anyway' is a weak defense that doesn't really hold up. In a good scifi or fantasy show, there still needs to be a certain degree of rules, boundaries, and/or verisimilitude where the show establishes what ways that it is, and isn't, out of the ordinary, and it should try its best to stay within those lines. The 'werewolves aren't real, either' defense doesn't hold up the further it strays from the norm. To make an obvious example why, no one is going to credibly make that defense if a TNG episode had something even more ridiculous, like Picard flying around naked on a magical broomstick, outside of the ship, waiving inside at everyone from a window, before shooting a death star ray from his nose that blows up Vulcan, because 'hey, it's all made up, it's all fake, so don't complain!' The rest of the production (directing, acting) could be great, but that's fatally stupid and out of line for TNG. Obviously Genesis doesn't push it to that extreme, but it's still a pretty bad foundation for the episode. Personally, I just have to concede it's BS to enjoy the rest of the episode in spite of that major flaw. That foundation is very weak, but beyond that it's well directed, it's 'scary', etc and there's a lot to like in spite of the flaw.

This discussion got me thinking about an episode that's "Parallels" from the other point of view. We stay on the familiar Enterprise, but gradually Worf starts acting weird. He doesn't remember that they saw a Cardassian ship on the recording, then he casually asks why Wesley isn't on the bridge, then he starts thinking that Troi's his wife. Every time they ask him how he did in the Bat'leth tournament, he says he did worse. Would be kind of fun.

The reason why they didn't start a story on TNG and have it continue on DS9 is because both shows were syndicated. In many markets, DS9 was shown first and TNG second and in others vice versa. Also the two shows were often on competing networks in many markets.

Hey guys. This is a link to Star Trek Minutiae. It's an online production script archive -- not complete, but pretty darn thorough. Collected Star Trek Scripts » Star Trek Minutiae https://share.google/Hcq17dz1PRVCb9cur (Spoiler Warning: Contains both what you have seen & what you have not, but you have control over what you see so it should be easy to avoid seeing anything you're not ready for.)

Interesting fact. Data's mom also plays a mom in Lost. Weird huh?!

I think Kirsten Dunst had filmed Interview with a Vampire around that time.

Re Worf and Troi. I imagine the idea originated like this.....[TNG writers' room - Season 7]. A collective "Well, what do we do?!!", followed by the writers slowly turning around to face the intern who has been suggesting a Worf & Troi romance for the last 3 years (and who got shot down unanimously 3 years in a row).

Guys, while I do genuinely respect your opinions, it has become clear that you have a predisposition to 'plot-light character' episodes. No problem with that, but you do seem to overlook that a high cost TV series has to broadcast a variety of episodes and also that the level of writing in ST generally isn't great with most character based light-plot episodes. I mean specifically that TNG is 'cozy' rather than dramatically sophisticated with many of this type of episode.

If you read the novelization of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, the author deals with the whole Chekov-not-being-there-in-season-1 and some other plot holes.

The idea and go-ahead for the first TNG movie started 2 years before it actually premiered, around the time that Star Trek VI came out.

I like the conversation at the beginning about a possible Captain Riker spinoff. But I think it would work better if you have him leave the Enterprise and get his own ship. Keeping him on the Enterprise creates a dilemma around how many other characters to keep. Do you write almost everyone else off the Enterprise for various reasons, or do you keep so many of them that it feels more like TNG season 8 rather than a new show? But if Riker leaves and gets a new ship, you don't have that problem. And you can promote some side characters to main characters on the premise that Riker offered them promotions if they joined his new crew. So if I were making a Riker spinoff with no knowledge of future shows, I'd go with this cast of characters: Riker as Captain, obviously. Data as First Officer Barclay as Chief Engineer Ensign Gates as Helmsman, just for Alex And maybe Ogawa or Selar as the Doctor, but otherwise original characters for the rest.

Sub Rosa is fun for the corniness and the fact it plays it all with a straight face, elevating it to almost campy status. Big points for not winking at the audience saying "we are intentionally bad, please laugh!"

It would have been interesting to see what season 7 would have looked like if they had gone with the wild idea they were considering of killing off Will in Second Chances and having Lt. Tom Riker on the show instead. I know Frakes was OK with the idea (“Hey, I would still be on the show!”), and it would have really shaken up the dynamics of the show in the final season. (I assume we would have had Data as first officer, which would have been a great thread all its own.) Seeing an ambitious Tom Riker trying to prove himself and move up the ranks could have been fascinating, not to mention a potential Riker-Troi-Worf love triangle.

I think you guys should have a top 10 worst episodes of the TNG series.

anyway. yall better not spoil what the future of star trek may or may not have

My favorite memory from this entire TNG journey is Josh yelling “ASS!” at the end of Masks.

I believe the original plan was that there was going to be a full-on DS9/TNG crossover in the DS9 season 1 finale. The Enterprise would help DS9 defend against an attack. Didn't happen, obviously, but would have been fun. Looking online for why it didn’t happen, and different sources give different reasons. One said Rick Berman didn’t like the idea so it was nixed. But there’s one source noting that Ira Steven Behr said it was ultimately deemed too expensive to do.

Star Trek novelizations hold a special place in my heart. In the early 90s when I first got into Trek as a kid, TNG and TOS episodes were hard to find. My parents weren't going to buy TV guide and the new episodes mostly were on after my bedtime. I had a few episodes and some TOS movies taped on VHS (commercials and all), but other than the random TNG and TOS episodes in syndication, I didn't see much. My fandom was built on toys and books. There are a set of complete TOS novelizations done in the 1970s by James Blish. My elementary school had the whole set in paperback (weird since it was a relatively conservative Lutheran school) and I read all of them 2-3x, even when they were above my grade level. They were full of random stuff that couldn't be shown in TOS and backstory of some of the guest characters, especially when they knew one of the main characters. Those books, and a few other novels I found at the time, were a huge source of information about Trek. There were also super nerdy technical manuals, including one from the 1970s with complete plans for making your own uniforms, though my mother was not interested in sowing me any.

I discussed my thoughts on Sub Rosa at length in the comments for that episode; but I think the people who focus on the whole 'romance novel/ghost story' plot or the ridiculous ghost sex scene as being the reason it's bad are really missing the point. It's in the 'code of honour' and 'up the long ladder' genre of bad; not the 'Masks' genre of bad.

I like when shows are internally consistent, but I do give a little bit of leeway especially when they're episodic, hence why I can still enjoy episodes like Sub Rosa or Masks or Genesis without issue. It helps that Star Trek still tries to be coherent, as much as is possible at least (the parts ironically that you both could do without, the science exposition tying it together). It's jarring for some folks if they're watching a show with well-established internal cohesion witness it suddenly break that logic with no rationale. It's fake TV, fiction, of course, but I like to be immersed in shows and movies. Easier to accomplish that if I believe the world they live in makes sense and obeys its bedrock principles, even if they're entirely made-up rules. Worlds I want to live in!

Well geez... Thanks for the spoiler about Final Destination... Kidding ;)

They knew Season 7 was the last season beforehand. ”All I can tell you is that the decision to end Next Generation after a seven-season run was made at least two years and two Paramount regimes ago,” Rick Berman- Entertainment Weekly 1994. They cited rising production costs including the actors salary increases. It seemed like a solid plan to make TNG movies and start another show with lower cast salaries. The first draft of "Generations" was dated June 1, 1993 (before the 7th Season started).