UNCUT - Tribunal (DS9 S2E25) | Star Trek Journey 327

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1

Keiko's actress, Rosalind Chao, has kept very busy with character work in a steady stream of shows across several genres. Her lead role opportunity just came with the sci fi novel adaptation recently of "Three Body Problem". She's doing just fine, and gettting to act in a wide range of roles and appearances and voiceover work.

This was a first-time watch for me. Great episode!

What goes underappreciated about this bizzarro world court system, is that it is believable. With the right society, culture and value hierarchies you could end up with a system like this - so completely opposite our own. And that's what makes this fascinating. Anyone can make up some nonsense, but to have it fit like a glove, that's special.

strong recommendation for folks to check out the Annotated Rapin' Jake Sisko (when you have seen the relevant episode) It's amazing but does contain spoilr allusions at times

The actor who played the over-the-top defense lawyer played a very similar role in an old Twilight Zone episode, "the obsolete man"

I think this is a solid episode that does a lot of great worldbuilding for the Cardassians. We've already heard Dukat tell Sisko that in Cardassia's trials, the defendants are always guilty. We've heard Garak talk to Bashir about how the highest virtue in Cardassian culture is duty to the State. And here we get the end result: Show trials, where the purpose is to entertain the masses with propaganda about how powerful and wise the State is. The eyeline of the Archon was towards the camera. It's all a performance. Pure propaganda. Yeesh, Garak, this is the place you are so desperate to return to? As others have said, Alex, they are lizard-like, they aren't slimy-skinned, they want hot, dry climates. Garak has commented about how the station is too cold since the Federation took over. Alex, I think you're thinking of amphibians, like frogs or newts, who want slimy, wet places. Lizards want hot and dry places.

I agree with your rating here. In general, you guys are right about this episode. It's good, not amazing. I feel I should say that now... just in case. 👀 🤪

Blah, blah, blah, Cardassians = Reptiles, need heat, yada, yadda, yadda... That the Cardassians don't like bright lights might also explain why there are so few outside on the streets. That or curfews. Additionally, we have seen cross-species surgical alterations before - Riker going undercover as a Mintakaan, or that species from the episode First Contacts, Picard as a Romulan in Unification... plus, Dr. Crusher got acid to the face from Worf and had reconstructive surgery done that was flawless. Just the magic of 24th Century medicine where a Cardassian can have all their ridges removed to look human.

Rosalind Chao has and continues to have a solid career.

Cardassians are basically reptiles. Reptiles usually live in hot places.

Hello Alex and Josh. I love your content! Much of this will be covered later on in the series, but if it helps with your preconception that the Cardassian homeworld should be dark and gloomy, remember that Cardassians LOVE the heat, and, like cold-blooded reptiles, they need both sunlight and heat in order to thrive. Remove either, and most reptiles become lethargic and go into a slumberous dormancy phase. They are, like many reptile species, perfectly adapted to hot & dry climates. The Klingons are the ones who prefer it hot & steamy ;) Hope this helps.

It would have been great if they had Michelle Forbes cameo as the shadow figure.

O'Brien has gone through a whole lot of stress and turmoil, but he's unshakable. Similar to Picard in that way, always trying to be the most honorable and moral man he can be. And Keiko is great for him, so supportive. I think A is a perfect mark for this episode.

spare yourselves, Voyager is mostly awful.

I love how the previous episodes with Garak and Bashir about Cardassian literature comes back here, the state and obedience and service. Not justice

loves court dramas and hasn't seen A Few Good Men?!?! what are we doing here? this needs to be rectified ASAP.

I've stumbled into the mirror universe.

its funny that you think they're 'slimy' lizard people. I'm rewatching this with you guys for the first time as an adult; and in my mind they're desert lizards. Garak talks bout being cowld when he freaks out in withdrawl and the cgi yellow sky and architecture is "90's middle eat" coded to me. But its funny because watching this as an adult their interior scenes do suggest more "its spooky stormy outside", not "Jafar and the Genie are right outside" which is what the cgi makes me feel.

"there is no war in Ba Sing Se" ~ Joo Dee

Yeah, A seems about right, probably a low A for me. I do think this episode is somewhat overrated. Still good for sure, but not iconic. Obviously the main strength is the performances from Colm, Rene, and Fritz. It evokes a lot of the same tone that Chain of Command did, but not nearly as effectively. Still, Picard was being held as a spy in a secret facility. Ever since Dukat's description of Cardassian trials in The Maquis, we needed to see it for ourselves. Seeing what they show and tell the public gives a lot of insight into their society. Not much more to say that hasn't been covered, but yeah, starfleet security is pretty lax to basically let the equivalent of 64 megaton nukes get stolen that easily. I guess the incompetence shouldn't be surprising at this point.

Great performance by Fritz Weaver as the cardie Perry Mason thT NEVER WINS. You now if its a court episode and an O'Brien episode its gonna be good. And it keeps the Marquis/Cardassian Stuff Rolling along, and Shit's getting ready to pop off

Is the first time they've done the multiple PADDs gag, wherein Star Trek correctly predicted the tablet, but not that you would be able to hold multiple documents on it? So you get characters comically trying to hold 5 PADDs at time.

TNG isn't over since you still have some movies left to watch :) On Netflix, there is also a behind the scenes special after the final TNG episode you could check out.

I like how Cardassia Prime looks because it makes me think of it as a dry, hot place, and I think of the Cardassians as slightly lizard-esque, and we know they like it hotter than humans do. I imagine them being the type that would love the idea of laying on a rock in the sunlight to bathe in it like a desert lizard or something. Maybe that's why they all wear those heavy, black outfits because they absorb more heat than lighter clothes. I also like that it's not as on-the-nose with 'look how EVIL their homeworld is' that a dark, stormy aesthetic would probably give off.

Blue light for Trek makes sense. It is the color used in the Federation flag / logo after all.

Sorry to disappoint your sense of narrative ambiance, Alex, but I think to the showrunners Cardassians are iguana people. They want a nice rock and a sun lamp. You'll have to look elsewhere for your planet of foreboding storms.

Rosalind Chao has absolutely done conventions over the decades, she just doesn't do many of them. From the cast and extended recurring cast of DS9, she is has had one of the better careers after the end of the show. With only Colm Meaning and Siddig El Fadil having a bigger tv/film career.

Goodness me! Allow the Cardassian public into the courtroom during the proceedings? Dear sirs, these are serious people demonstrating the value of order and the firm hand of justice, both intregal to the Cardassian way of life. And yet you would advocate for chaos by admitting to the courtroom persons not directly tied to the matter being addressed? How can you even suggest it? The Cardassian Court is fully transparent. Are not the proceedings of such important trials broadcast to all of Cardassia for their instruction and enrichment? No, there is no need to bring in the public; it would lessen the dignity of the Court. (Besides, if we let in people who aren't officers of the court, it makes it so much harder to tamp down counter narratives when we need to make edits beneficial to the state.)

There are some immutable facts, that through the course of star trek can not be altered. O'Brien. Must. Suffer. :)

So much said here will be answered in later seasons lol. Totally forgot this was Brooks' first director credit. Looking forward to e26! Thank you!

The reason why Voyager airs so soon is TNG and VOY were considered the mainstream accesible shows where they expected to get all the ratings from, and DS9 was like the alternative for the hardcore fans. So naturally once TNG went off the air, they wanted VOY on asap to fill TNG's role. This is also what allowed DS9 to get really good. The producers were essentially looking the other way the entire time making sure TNG and VOY met their standards, which meant DS9 got a lot of unsupervised creative freedom as the forgotten middle child. There's a very good documentary that came out in 2018 that you guys would probably really enjoy watching after you finish DS9. In it, the DS9 writers, cast, and crew talk about, among many other things, how they felt once they realized they were the middle child and they were never going to get the same level of recognition as the other shows.

Rosalind Chao is the most underrated actor in Trek.

It has a black comedy vibe (Kafka) that I find a bit oddball, since 'Chain Of Command -Part 2' set the tone for this type of story. Brooks is a very talented director, but maybe he indulged this aspect more than he strictly should have (to try to compensate for the bottle show budget?). I'm surprised Beck was cast in such a small role.

I like Voyager saw it before DS9 and before seeing TNG again as an adult

I'd rather purple for DS9, but blue's still better than the green.

Eight people have probably already said this, but the Archon was looking at the camera, like all TV hosts do to directly address the audience

When Sisko shows up at the courtroom, he should have offered a prisoner exchange, the high command was watching, and knew their spy had been exposed, so they send a quick message to the judge to agree. Roll credits.

Well, if you recall, Arne Darvin was a Klingon agent, surgically altered to look human in TOS (Trouble with Tribbles). Like here, he couldn't pass a medical exam.

Voyager....yuck. lol

Idk if Keiko goes to conventions but Molly Hana Hatae makes the convention circuit.. she’s in her 30’s now?

TNG right now! They’re like more Masks? Season 8

In regards to the weird eye line on the judge…I interpreted the framing that she was mostly addressing the camera i.e. the in universe camera that is broadcasting to the Cardassian populace. It was a subtle choice but I think Avery nailed it.

A bit overpacked with a quick resolution but I like it

Not as good as I remembered. The lawyer was the best part of the episode, but I also thought Odo's role in the story was very good.

It's a good plot, but sadly propped up by something that was absolutely ridiculous -- Odo has cameras all over the place. We see him monitoring Quark, even random corridors, for crying out loud. There was no posted guard, or even a simple camera monitoring the entrance to the bay where the PHOTON TORPEDOES are stored?? This isn't even the 24th Century, and WE would have all sorts of cameras around such a location. Since when was Odo as bad at security as the crew of the Enterprise D?

"So, for this week's show I'd like to put one of the crew through the Cardassian legal system to show the horrors of an authoritarian system. I'm having trouble making the audience identify with Bashir who is the victim." "Change Bashir to O'Brien, see how that works."

I didn't remember at all that they mentioned the Enterprise. It just had to be a tiny bit of acknowledgment that that show had just ended, right? I guess I'm not sure if they knew far enough ahead when the episodes would air, but it's a nice bit, even accidentally.

You have no idea how much this just saves my day. Best from Switzerland: Mad :)

I'm waiting for the next episode and your reaction :))

I love the german DDR stasi callback hahaha

The chief's Cardassian lawyer I find especially hilarious in this - "I'm just one day/year away from retirement" congrats you won "they'll kill me" and they probably did just that!

I remembered that Rosalind Chao played some one else's wife before TNG. I looked it up, she played the Korean wife of Max Klinger on MASH close to the end of the series run. It's said that the wedding episode broke some ratings records.

First it makes a change using almost my real name rather than jon bolton. A from me, I love this one. Re your final remark guys, you know what the bloody Cardies could do to Odo, just phasor him and make him explore like Julian did to Mirror Odo😂

loved alex's smile during miles' speech. he hasnt defended a character this much since data got called a toaster 😅

i absolutely love listening to alex speculate about what is to come!!!! I am so excited for your journey!!!

I totally get your complaints about Cardassian weather, but I actually think Cardassia is more menacing because it's not dark and stormy all the time. It's not immediately obvious how terrible and repressive their existence is. Kovat even says something like "everyone is safe to walk the streets at night" -- in his mind, that goal is easily worth giving up every other freedom. You can imagine a population that's been conditioned to be happy they're so safe and secure, because all the "bad" people get punished -- so on a day-to-day level, they're pretty content. I find that a lot more terrifying than "oh man, our government has got it in for us AND people keep getting struck by lightning."

I wondered why I knew Boone's face, he played a scumbag police officer in Diagnosis Murder ;) I enjoy this episode as it shows just what a facade the Cardassian Justice System. Purely the tool of an authoritarian regime. The Chief is right though, can't trust those bloody Cardis! Looking forward to the season finale! But not so much to your holiday break :(

We also saw the dissident Cardassians in the episode where Quark was in love with the professor

I like to think that Odo wasn't ignorant of how Nestors function in a trial, but that he knew he needed to stall the proceedings long enough for the DS9 crew to figure out what was going on.

Cardassians are basically meant to invoke comparison to lizards - Cardassia is scorching hot; when the federation took over DS9 they had to fix the environmental controls because IIRC it was set to about 35c; and Garak has complained about how cold it is on DS9.

I get not wanting to see the recording device, but if they had waited until the end to say "look, they recorded him secretly" wouldn't that be telling, not showing? I don't think the episode needs more of that. At least with that Boone scene in the beginning, they showed that he was up to something and it didn't feel like it came out of nowhere. I do get the criticism, but I think it works in this episode.

I for one am not really something who always wants a mystery in an episode so this is a perspective that I dont really ever consider when watching media. I'd rather for the episode to just tell us whats going on instead of wasting time and doing red herrings and clues to do a mystery. I think if the whole episode is a mystery like Whispers then thats good but for episodes like this or In the Hands of the Prophets just tell me without any pretense that "this is the killer and this is what happened" so we can use the time to do character stuff.

You can see this was Cardassia’s real response to the maqui and Federation colonies

I like the green better

Ah another Maquis one they were going all in this close to the end of the season It’s fun nothing too deep, ends a bit abruptly but I like it.

Who’s been holding up the damned elevator? Chief!

This usually is the kind of episode I dislike but all the characters and writing made it my number 6 or 4 of season 2

BOOM!!! O’Brien must suffer!!!