UNCUT - Crossover (DS9 S2E23) | Star Trek Journey 323

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version Kira and Sisko getting down and dirty, no. But Mirror Kira and Mirror Sisko shaggin’ like they are in another universe. The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Mirror Kira +1 new Mirror Sisko +1 new DETAILS: Mirror Kira and Mirror Sisko bangin away,

Shaka, when the walls fell.

If you guys want to see a Federation where things suck for all of the citizens , you should try watching Blake's 7 a British sci-fi tv show made just before STAR WARS debuted in the late 1970's where the earth empire is a tyranny and only bad happens, the creator was inspired by Trek but did his own version of events in the negative, it has plenty of surprise's

Did he say they've seen Star Trek Continues? Did they react to that?

Oh boy….all that speculation at TOS at the end….must bite tongue

I like this one quite a bit as well. Great reaction, guys!

Since I'm sure nobody has mentioned it yet, the wormhole was moved from Bajor and it now orbits your mom.

Well written episode and a nice call back. Don’t make this a habit. Leave the Mirror concept behind us.

I'm sure someone has mentioned it by now, but they moved the station to the wormhole in the first episode. It's still in the Bajoran system, but it's about six hours away by impulse, and not in orbit of Bajor any longer.

In what way is she queer?

I see what you did there.....LOL

Interesting to see Kira essentially be Dukat. As far as TOS and DS9…the writers were the kids watching TOSand now they’re writing DS9

This was a great episode and im glad you guys enjoyed it. I love watching you watch this series :D

It just keeps happening - I think I didn’t like an episode and then I rewatch here and…huh. This is…entertaining now?

TNG has had callbacks and tributes to TOS many times.

I really wanna watch this but paramount plus is being ass

They can stay in one spot because they have thrusters that counter drift. We do the same thing with satellites in orbit around earth

There were some thirsty patron takes. Anyone need a glass of water?

Station only orbited Bajor early on. They moved the station to be closer to the wormhole to stake a claim to it when the wormhole was discovered (it was a big chunk of a season one early episode).

i liked that the writers did'nt make everyone opposites, just because the terrans in this universe were evil , not all other races had to be polar opposites

A Great episode that really builds on Mirror Mirror its an S for me

nah I am s really only one True Trek Series guy. An thats tos and then there are the sequel series of varying degrees of success. But there's only one Trek the original

To explain the station not orbiting Bajour, in one of the first episodes of season 1, when they found the wormhole, they fired up the stations engines and pushed it out of Bajors orbit to place it at the mouth of the wormhole, some way from Bajor.

Question for the group: The position of the wormhole entrance. Do we think it's a fixed point in space? Or, as a location in something the show has stated as the Denorius Belt, which is presumably a belt of something around the bajoran star, analogous to our asteroid belt, does the entrance actually orbit the star? What about the exit? As far as I can tell from the show, the exit just seems to be a fixed point in space. Would the entrance be orbiting a star while the exit is a fixed point?

"Why would she think it's weird they're orbiting Bajor?" Bruh wut 💀 💀 💀

The true successor to TOS emerges. DS9 isn't afraid to go places TNG wouldn't dare, and to be associated with TOS.

S-tier in the fun category, not the "melt my mind from grief or philosophical brilliance". This was even more enjoyable than I remember it being. I did remember that fake Odo gets blown up, but that effect made me immediately recall Conspiracy bug zapping. Poor 50 shades Odo.

if your interested there is a novel called The Sorrows of Empire, that show Spock rise to power in the Terran empire and how he destroyed it from within

the station moved to near the entrance of the wormhole, so it not close to the planet

I just realized, the mirror universe even going back to Kirk is the universe from playing god a few episodes ago, a time loop anomoly happened

DS9 is one of the two series I most look forward to your reactions to, the other I won't say yet. Around here is where the series really finds itself, with a series of good episodes. So here is where I have to give you my Over-Under for how many times in the series one or both of you will say 'This is my favourite DS9 episode'; 4 And, Over-Under of times in the series one or both of you will say 'This is (one of) my favourite Star Trek episode; 3

On Nana Visitor...I'm disappointed that we haven't seen more of her in other shows and movies. I think she's a very natural actor when given material where her warmth and humor can take the forefront. In her role as Kira, the First Officer and former terrorist, she has to be a bit stiff and closed off a lot...but as this show went on I realized that Kira was my favorite First Officer in all of Trek. Kira, as a character with the facets of a violent past, a leadership position, and deep spiritual convictions and personal sense of honor...needs to be played by an actor that can somehow contrast a bit of standoffish stiffness with an air of personal warmth and faith. She wears command as a mask, where Riker tends to the do the reverse. Nana Visitor and Kira are both underrated IMO.

I'll drop a note on your "do TNG fans born in the 70s and 80s like TOS?" While it's true that I was not yet born when TOS aired (I was born in 1975), the early 1980s were a time when a brand new trend was popping up: the syndicated TV show. So I was able to watch TOS in the early 1980s on a local TV station, and being... 9 or 10 years old I didn't really have the concept of "airing live" vs "rerun" because if it was new to me, it was new to me. So I really watched a lot of TOS when I was very young, and even got the great Star Trek comic books (telling new stories with the TOS crew) to read on road trips. So yeah, I watched TOS 12 years after it originally aired, but it still affected me the same way older fans might have felt. TNG for me came around high school. I like 'em both.

Great episode. You can tell the cast, particularly Nana Visitor, had a lot of fun getting to ham it up and chew the scenery. I confess, I've never had much interest in the mirror universe thing, but looking at it from the guys' character centric perspective, I've got a lot more appreciation for it now. Its always been a great episode, I'm just more interested in the DS9 plot and character arc, and this doesn't really tie into it. Love any connection to prior series though, stitching the overall universe tighter together. The careful consistency, paying respect to the TOS material, is crucial. Continuity and respect for the lore...that is something DS9 EXCELS at.

Josh: "Going into DS9, I just felt any type of connection to TOS would be non-existent." Oh sweet summer child ... 😂

In the pilot, DS9 was moved from orbiting Bajor to the Denorios Belt, which is further out in the Bajoran system, to where the wormhole is.

I'll never understand how anyone can read a book about Narnia and not understand that it's complete fantasy...and then watch The Martian and not understand the connection to the real world and the realities that drive it's plot. I mean, if there's no difference, why doesn't Matt Damon just carve a magic wand out of a potato plant and get spirited away back to Earth using a summoning circle? Yes, the thermoelectric generator Matt Damon uses to stay warm is ABSOLUTELY real. The magic wand...not so much. I don't know why this is such a difficult contrast to understand.

Josh, Bajor is a planet in the same solar system as the wormhole. The wormhole isn't near Bajor. The entrance to the Wormhole is millions of miles away, way out in the Denorius Belt, which is probably analogous to their asteroid belt. The station WAS in orbit of Bajor during the occupation, right up to the DS9 pilot episode. During the pilot, O'Brian and Kira MOVED the station to be near the entrance of the wormhole, in order to ensure Bajoran control and sovereignty over it. It was a key plot point of the pilot. The space station sitting at the entrance to the wormhole is the setting of the show! Bajor would appear to be just another distant spec of light out there from that distance. And yes, the relative location of things is "real science". Which of course remains entirely distinct something completely fantastical. Trolling aside, nobody ever claimed everything in Star Trek as "REAL SCIENCE OMG!" Its always been science fiction. Its simply been pointed out that the connection to real science is what defines science fiction as a genre...in extremely stark contrast to something like Lord of the Rings or wresting, which are pure fantasy and require no connection or logical backbone whatsoever.

In the TOS Gorn episode, that Gorn captain and his ship was destroyed because he lost.

I love that the MirrorQuark is actually a rebel! So well written and performed by Armin. But, my favorite performance is by Avery Brooks. His MirrorSisko is so complex, and most of his thoughts just play out across his face.

Great reaction to a great episode. Even though personally I prefer Mirror Mirror, this still gets S from me.

So, do you think Bashir is actually deluded enough to believe he and Miles are best friends, or is he playing that up to try to manipulate Smiley into helping him? Based on his conversation with Kira in the opening scene, maybe he really does believe it.

With normal DS9 already muddying the good & evil waters, is it really the right ST show for the Mirror Universe?

You are wrong. The Station is in the Bajoran solar system orbiting the Bajoran sun near the Wormhole. It does not orbit Bajor, it is several hours away at impulse (As seen in the Circle Arc).

Quark as a courageous hero of the underground is the most mirror thing ever

I think this should have been a 2 parter.

Spock, look what a mess you made. Never should have listened to Kirk. Imagine the last days before the Empire fell to the Klingons and Cardassians.

Whether as a secret duplicate or in the mirror universe, one truth remains; O’Brien Must Suffer.

Please remember that the station, although close to Bajor, does not orbit it. The station is out where the wormhole is.

Not a fan of the mirror universe they clearly did this as a break before the end of the season. Always glad when others enjoy episodes

I saw all the comments explaining why the station is by the wormhole…as to how it stays there, it’s implied that they found a gravitationally advantageous position and constantly use the station’s maneuvering thrusters (which are not fast, but are powerful enough to keep the station in place).

originally, Garak's role was supposed to be Worf but Dorn was busy with the TNG finale and Garak would have been in the place of the klingon.

hes joining Sisko after Sisko says "maybe we can stir things up on this side" Miles wants to fight the alliance.

Not direct canon but its held in B canon thet Balok and the "first federation" were actually the preservers

continuation- Trelane to Q?

I loved the sublte looks on Sisko's face when the Intendant calls. Kira picks up on it- it's also maybe ahead of its time in the sense that a man here is a victim of sexual exploitation.

The reason the station being in orbit of Bajor is weird is that they moved the station to be in front of the wormhole in the series premiere.

Nana also said in an interview that the intendant's suit produced so much squeaking it was distracting and made them laugh. The sounds had to be removed in post. Also while she had to flirt and be seductive that was the last thing on her mind as she was sweating bullets underneath. All of which I believe only elevates her performance here.

love that you mirrored the reaction footage when they went into the wormhole lol. nice little editing touch

It's Mirror Mirror for DS9, I knew they would like this one

In an interview with Nana Vistor. She said her personality matches more with intedant Kira. Accept for the killing and torturing people part.

Happy to see that you enjoyed the episode! There's a lot of interesting things to find in that mirror universe. My fav little titbit is that in the regular world, Quark has his Rules of Acquisition, but in the Mirror Universe it's Odo who has his Rules of Obedience. Generally, there were lots of great performances in this episode: Nana Visitor of course gets first place, but Avery Brooks is 2nd for me, and Alexander Siddig 3rd. They are did a wonderful job with this.

I don't know if old TV screens worked different with PAL but on Netflix and an UHD Monitor you really see clusters of pixels and sometime, if someone is in out of focus in the background as Odo was, it looks more like someone in a fog environment

You guys pointed out the Kira cares about Freedom speech: lots of us reference that Kira has some of the greatest character growth of anyone in Trek. You hit it here. She tried to save Bashir, "He's led a privileged life but he's a good man." And that's probably the biggest compliment she can pay someone she barely tolerates from the Federation, and I think this episode gives her that better perspective on the Starfleet crew, just adding to the slowly growing teamwork we see between her and Sisko. She's healing from her trauma and growing her experiences out into the best kinds of empathy.

If you want to see Avery Brooks really act different than Sisko, check out the late 80's series Spenser: For Hire. He plays a recurring supporting character and just nails it (especially if you've read any of Robert B. Parker's novels).

Agree with you, Josh - it should have been a 2-parter.

I love the shot at the end of Bashir and Kira on the viewscreen - Kira in a cocktail dress and Bashir covered in shit and looking exhausted. The questions that must have rasied in the regular crew! Haha Also shout out to Odo exploding. Definite highlight.

almost everything they said makes me believe they will adore the rest of DS9

The wormhole is presumably orbiting the Bajoran sun, just like Bajor, all the planets and moons, and the station. The station thus is moving in orbit, keeping relative position next to the wormhole and a few hours from Bajor. (That's why they have to take runabouts to Bajor when they go there.)

Just in case no one answered this already . Why Terak Nor is not orbitting Bajor - remember in the Pilot of DS9, Kira asked O'Brien to move the station from where it was over Bajor to the mouth of the wormhole so Bajro could stake their claim to it.

I like DS9’s Shattered Mirrorverse as I call it. Because the other reality has changed and evolved since Spock’s time as it would.. a lot of comics and novels just had the same old “evil Starfleet” that appeared in TOS. I always wonder what Picard and the others are doing in the mirrorverse?

Please, Josh... even your wife wouldn't be looking at the instrument.

Do these mirror versions of yourselves like ST6? Perhaps this version of reality has the same writer and director for Lessons, The Bonding and ST6 :)

I fricking love the transitions

Wait! They already have beards?! How do I tell the difference between universes?!

Always an enjoyable episode, allowing the regular cast to stretch their acting legs :) Great follow up to a TOS storyline. Look forward to hearing what you guys think, it was certainly fun seeing your reactions.

I assume no one has explained this to you yet, but the station is orbiting Bajor because its the moon.

Honestly really happy for you two that you didnt even talk about Kira being hot while that was 80% of the Patreon Takes. I am here for your guys analysis and dissecting the episode and not surface level observations like these.

Literally cheering your reactions through that. It's silly, outrageous and camp. And that's just your episode discussion.

First rule of Star Trek --- everything --- even the most forgettable of episodes has the potential to be revisited sometime later. Treat everything as a potential part 1....because you never know......

Indeed splendid direction by the fish David Livingston

When Star Trek falls down anywhere, it’s usually in the endings. They set up a rich plot with all kinds of different threads and implications, and then they panic in the last five minutes and try to wrap everything up. DS9 is better about this than, say, TNG, but they still succumb to it sometimes. If this had been in the streaming era and they could have run it to a full 60 minutes, I think this episode would have felt more fully realized. Otherwise, I love everything about this. I’d forgotten how sympathetic the DS9 mirror characters were compared with the TOS ones, and that works to their great benefit. Side note: If you haven’t seen the “bust some caps” scene from “The Big Hit,” that’s maybe the all-time peak of brilliant Avery Brooks weirdness.

Paraphrasing "My favorite scene is when mirror universe Kira was naked in the bathtub" Which one of the them said this? Watch the post discussion to find out.

Rewatching with you guys has given me an appreciation for DS9's different take on the Mirror Universe. The writers could have so easily just had the Terran Empire endure, and had the Federation characters play the part of the villains. In fact, I was always a bit disappointed that wasn't the case when I watched it originally. But then I notice things like the parallels between mirror Kira and Gul Dukat. They both talk so passionately about mercy and their sorrow over having to do what must be done, but even before you know anything about them, you don't trust a word they say. Having Kira, of all people, play that part, is such a wonderful subversion that wouldn't be possible if they had just done the same thing as "Mirror, Mirror." And while we didn't get evil Sisko, pirate Sisko is just as fun. Honoring the original while doing it's own thing is really the best way to do these kinds of episodes, and one thing DS9 excels at.

tell me if I am wrong but I think when they come out of the wormhole its actually inverted?

I always like to think that there is a Romulan Federation and they’re the good guys since Our team were called the Terran Star Empire

I rewatched the show several times. But now I noticed the first time there is a mistake in Mirror-Quark's conversation with Kira in his bar. He calls her "Major" but should not know what her position and rank in "our" universe is.

A little Mirror Mirror swicheroo between you two? Nice

While watchtcing this, I thought there was a technical glitch. Then I realized what you were doing. Cheesy, but effective.

Seeing Kira play a feminine queer version of Dukat right down to his twisted I tried to make things better for your poor Terrans/Bajorans mindset is pure gold. Nana Visitor understood the assignment and knocked it out of the park.

Don't be silly. Odo isn't wearing pants

Is mirror Odo a fascist?

Without even starting to watch your reaction, you just know that when your reaction video is 1 hour and 22 minutes long the episode is either getting an S or an E

The one minor sin this episode commits is that it treats the Mirror Universe like an alternate timeline rather than what it was originally supposed to be: a parallel universe. In a parallel universe, if one version dies, their counterpart on the opposite side also dies. That's not the case here.

In the pilot episode, they MOVED THE STATION to the mouth of the wormhole in the belt. Apes.

Weirdly I think this was my first experience of the mirror universe! Nana Visitor steals this episode - such a fun performance

In the pilot episode they moved the station closer to the wormhole hence it wasnt orbitting Bajor

"Is this some mirror mirror shit" HOW DID HE KNOW

Intendant "You've been a perfect theta for years. What were you thinking?" Smiley "Go fuck yourself, Intendant" Intendant "Now there's an idea" Regarding DS9's location, in the pilot it was orbiting Bajor because that's where the Cardassians kept it, but they moved it to the Denorios Belt to guard the wormhole. The Denorios Belt is roughly equivalent to our asteroid belt, except it's a plasma field. Both divide the inner system from the outer system though. The station is about 160 million kilometers from Bajor, which is roughly the distance from Earth to the Sun, so it's quite far. Regarding "staying still" in space, it's more a question of "in relation to what". You orbit a planet, that orbits a star, which orbits the galactic core, in a galaxy that's moving through the universe. Still if the station is staying near the mouth of the wormhole, the wormhole entrance must be orbiting the bajoran sun as well. If DS9 were remaining stationary even that far out in relation to the bajoran sun, it would be dragged toward it. But TLDR, the wormhole and the station are between the 9th and 10th planets in the Bajor system. This episode was such a blast from the past when it aired. Of all the TOS stories to revisit, I doubt the mirror universe was on many people's bingo cards. You have to respect how casual they were about killing off 2 MU versions of the main cast. I suppose some might say it sucks that mirror Spock's reforms didn't ultimately change things for the better, but does it really? Would this universe be anywhere near as fun to revisit if it basically turned into the trek universe we know already? The mirror universe needs to be messed up, or it just wouldn't be all that interesting. MU Quark and O'Brien honestly seem the closest to their prime universe counterparts, just dealt worse hands. Quark isn't without a moral compass, it's just that he places profit over bravery. Since he really can't profit on Terok Nor, he might as well stick it to the alliance by helping terrans escape. Brooks really got to ham it up as the mirros Sisko, but of course the main draw of the episode is the Intendant. Nana Visitor must have had so much fun with this role. Quite possibly the single most narcissistic character in Trek. Wouldn't give it an S personally, but it is a very fun episode, so it's a solid A tier.