UNCUT - Blood Oath (DS9 S2E19) | Star Trek Journey 315

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version Kor uses his sword. The sex score board Quark 4 Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Koloth 1 Kang 1 Kor +1 (maybe 2) DETAILS: Koloth and Kang both have scores from TOS but Baltar….I mean Kor scores here. But did he choose one or Klingdong a double.

I think the Next Gen Klingon episodes have more bearing due to your emotional ties and link with their outcome relating to Worf, while even with 3 original Trek Klingon guest stars that impact at whatever the result has gotta feel less of an investment as a viewer

The three great actors reprising their roles from TOS I thought just totally nailed it in this episode. But even more than that this episode was just loads of fun! Love the little reference to The Trouble With Tribbles in this one. And it had a three musketeer type of feeling in it. Or if you include Dax a four musketeer type of feeling!

"I should like it. I think I like it, but I don't know if I do." Yeah. That's just about perfect.

There is no way to explain why Kor, Kang, and Koloth changed in appearance without SPOILERS. Be patient and maybe someday the discrepancy between TOS Klingons and TNG era Klingons will be explained. Or maybe not. What do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You know how you guys always get annoyed with characters over-explaining things you’ve already figured out? That’s exactly what having started explaining the Patron takes for 30 to 45 seconds *every. Single. Video.* is now. It’s not a complicated concept. It’s all right there in the name. Even if it weren’t it would take until the reading of the first comment for even the slowest people to figure out what it is. Please stop. It’s annoying to listen to every time, going “Yes, *we know*.” It’s fairly recent, and it’s not a good addition.

Oh come on! That misty entrance of those four silhouetted Klingons/Jadzia in the Albino's threshold -- "Look upon your executioners, killer of children!" That was epic

God I love season two When TNG looks back to TOS we get 'The Naked Now' When DS9 does it we get 'Blood Oath' I don't know what this episode deserves on a first watch, but I tell you it's one I always look forward to even on a selective abridged tenth watch through

"I'm Jadzia now!" "Jadzia, my old friend" ACCEPTANCE <3

I think Josh and Alex sometimes forget Trek is a family show intended to be PG for ages 9 and up or whatever. You can't have a bloodbath on syndicated TV at 5 PM on a Sunday afternoon. You just have to roll with it and concede that one.

What I like so much about this episode is that it doesn't spell everything out in the final scene and instead ends on reaction shots from other characters. Trek rarely does this. I will say that this episode would have been better if Dax had killed the Albino, and even though she likely killed a bunch of guards, I don't think the suits would have allowed it. Worf gets away with stuff like that because he is a Klingon, this is their legal system, and still has rough edges. (Or had them until season 7). Dax is too human as "one of the good guys" to be allowed such a dark turn.

On my first watch with The Boys, I found myself having the same feeling about this episode as Alex. All the ingredients for a great episode, but a bit too watered down for whatever reason. Not bad though, all things considered, just seems...thin?

I loved this episode because I loved seeing these three again TOS Klingons (especially Kor, the first Klingon we saw). It’s been 100 years since we last saw them. Lots of fan theories as to why they looks different- mutation over time, for example. I’m a stickler for canon, but some changes to appearance that can be explained are okay with me. Objectively speaking I agree with a B, but on a personal level it’s an A just because I love these Klingons. I am glad the show is finally finding a way to develop Dax as a character. She just keeps getting better.

Most of Alex and Josh’s comments are fair. BUT. The one thing I disagree with 100 percent is Josh’s rigid adherence to continuity. To me, makeup and special effects should never be respected as part of continuity. Forget that shit. TOS wasn’t a documentary that faithfully depicted Kor, Kang, and Koloth as the “really” existed. They’re not real. It doesn’t matter whether they are faithful to appearances. I feel the same way with objections to recasting characters with new actors. These aren’t real people. This is a performance. This is all artifice. Recasting and new makeup and effects are 100 percent fair game. I’m totally comfortable with pretending that this is what they always look like because it’s all pretending anyway.

JOSH EATING SPILLED SNACKS OFF THE FLOOR!!! Caught you red-handed!!

B or B+ for me. Josh & Alex, you seemed to get hung up on the TOS reference part of for a while. When I watched this, I hadn’t seen TOS yet. I didn’t know those were TOS characters until many years later. Would the episode be a bit better to you if you forget the TOS ties and they were just 3 random old Klingons with clout?

Yeah like so often i was wrong, because i thought you would really like this Episode. ^^ For me a solid A. The first 30 Minutes are S Tier for me, but the Fight is a B at best, so the buildup is greater than the actual climax.

The way to recognize John Colicos is the voice, always. The three most memorable TOS Klingon commanders as The Three Musketeers, with Jadzia as D'Artagnan. You should see "The Man in the Iron Mask" movie for where they slot. So the now we have it in canon that the Klingons have always looked this way. As an objective opinion, , this story is a bit weak if it was just three random klingon characters, rather than from TOS..

This episode continues the theme that the only interesting thing about Dax is Curzon, who is jad'zia exactly? So far a slave to Curzon's memories and little else Couldn't hurt to hear about a different previous host for once?

When the official TA cinematic trailer was better and more intense than this lukewarm cup of Klingon raktajino episode I've probably seen 10+ times in the last thirty years.......

What shocks me about your review of the episode is how it compares to your views about the previous Dax episode. Unlike most here I actually rather liked Playing God, for me it's a b- episode. Supporting almost entirely by the Dax character work, and negatively impacted by the B - Subplot. So a Dax episode that is deeper dramatically, and tied to just one plot. Hell yeah I liked this one much more A-,

Blood on the weapons is not common in Trek up to this point, blood on weapons in active use never shown. Sins of the Father, Redemption II both feature no blood during knife combat. Where you are more likely though not guaranteed, is blood on a prominent corpse. Like Duras after Worf kills him. In fact blood on weapons is only shown to date after a cut, after the action is over and that is still not common. A pan out for example in Duet where you now see the knife with a small amount of blood on it, or Duras with the Batleth sticking in his chest. The only time blood is shown on a blade without a cut, is when Worf is swearing to Gowron, where the blade is blocked by his arm as he is grabbing the blade edge, and the blade is pulled away and blood is present. But never in a combat scene in action. And yes the fight scene isn't that engaging. But it is fairly true for the time for how TV was shot in fight scenes, and we also have to consider its a fight with actors in prosthetics (meaning there day is going to be 4 to four hours longer, thus less time on stage), actors that are senior citizens, and its the largest battle scene in TNG or DS9 to date, Those factors help make it more memorable for its time. As for the complaint by some that the characters are somewhat different from TOS (with Koloth being the largest), I actually love that. This is over a 100 years later than when we saw any of these characters (and we saw actually very little of them to form a legitimate baseline on who they should be at there core). . Now what I am more shocked by is you guys not recognizing Kor (or in your case Baltar) as you saw the actor far more in one season then what you saw in one episode. Now some fans like myself who has seen Battlestar multiple times over the decades, still have seen Kor more, as I have seen that episode easily a hundred plus times over the sixty years. I don't remember being spoiled by this episode in advance ( I was more focused on the promo for the end of TNG, Generations and the early rumblings about Voyager).. And I immediately recognized the actor both from his eyes and checks, not to say anything of his very distinctive voce.

I like the idea that this played best for TOS fans that had rewatched those episodes over and over in reruns for 20 years. There's a certain vibe to being a fan in certain "eras" that can get passed by in later generations. I remember the Star Wars fan era before the prequels very fondly, for example. The specific vibes surrounding the OT catchphrases or the weak-but-it's-all-we-got 90s SW books, etc. That era died a long, long time ago, and younger fans just won't ever know its particular charm or its drawbacks.

I don't mind that the Klingons were changed. Sure, it technically means that TOS is "inaccurate" with regards to visuals, but when have visual effects ever been photoreal? It's all just a visual medium that's meant to express ideas.

I like the cheesy bloodless battles T_T These episodes are so cosy.

I hope you'll edit all the DS9 opening credits reactions into one loooong video once you've finished the series - so funny!

I like the episode for the eccentric performance of Kor, but otherwise I just find it OK. I wondered if I wasn't remembering it correct when you put out the cinematic trailer. Usually if it gets a trailer it is really good or really bad and I didn't remember it being either.

This review is fair and B is a a good score for this one. It's not top tier for me. All the conversation scenes are at least an A (killer after killer lines with Dax, Kira, Odo, Sisko, etc.), sooooo good!) and then there are a number of scenes with the legacy klingons that are C level. Although it's nice to give a nod TOS characters, Josh and Alex put together who they were faster than I did when I first watched this.

I think you guys nailed it: the idea is much better than the execution.

A B is Fair I’d give it an A-

Energy won't work. Replicate machine guns. Lol

I always found that final fight a bit anticlimactic. This episode is fine. I appreciate the callback to TOS, and the willingness to embrace the frachise history without suffocating in it, and the Dax stuff is good. It gets close to crossing the line of exceptional, but misses the mark. But hey, at least havi g watched TOS you're able to appreciate these characters and their history, even if it didn't land perfectly. I did honestly expect you guys to not realize until you opened the takes and saw they were old characters.

Rewatching ot I see that the front half of the episode is better than the back half, and growing up watching those 70 episodes over and over and the n 20 years later revisiting with old friends adds to the lack of a better story in the second half. It's an episode I'd expected when you don't recognize "My Dear Captain Koloth" or for that matter Trelane

I feel like in the 90s TV censors started cracking down on the violence and gore outside of specific networks and shows. There's definitely a point where the Bat'leth starts coming across as a blunt'leth in how it's used and kinda stays that way for awhile.

They should have come up with an in universe explanation or just said they were a different race of klingon.

Oof. Yeah. Kinda forgot how flat this one can fall. I was hyped for re-watching this episode, because I remember it being awesome...then it just kinda...goes... Also whenever I first watched this episode I had absolutely no idea they were Klingons from TOS either. I was honestly very surprised you guys pieced it together in the reaction.

And yes, the makeup change...really hits you in the face here. That's the toxicity of retconning. Its a problem. And yeah, this episode is mostly a fumble of something that could have been great if it had any money behind it. As for lifespans, I think canonically Klingons do live longer than humans...but in the 24th century human life expectancy is up to something like 130 years.

There was a probably baseless rumor a while back that Quentin Tarantino had been shopping an R-Rated Star Trek script around, trying to tell a story about a pair of Klingons butchering their way across multiple starships trying to hunt down some Starfleet guy they wanted to delete. Obviously too awesome to ever get made, but would be a fun contrast against 90's network TV in terms of the effect of big curvy swords on squishy humans....

Looking forward to another hundred episodes of watching you guys squirm through the opening credits lol. Was wondering if you'd be able to spot the TOS actors through the new makeup. I thought the most poignant moment was the last scene. Dax wordlessly traumatized, Sisko wordlessly disappointed and angry, Kira wordlessly sympathetic and understanding.

I give this a B(+) as well, but I think I like it more than you guys (The way you talk about this episode, it seems you would rather give it a C) I always thought the revenge mission to avenge kids we've never heard (or cared) about is pretty meh. The final "battle" is also not spectacular or long enough to impress as a supposedly epic final stand. The brightly lit outdoor scenes look out-of-place and Guard "Helmet" is hilariously cheap and goofy. But I do like every character scene on the station with Dax and the three old Klingons. John Colicos was excellent as an old drunk.

This is what I shared with the Bridge Crew when we got this drop last week: “Just wrapped up watching your reaction. This is what I have to say about your guys’ feelings on this one: I totally get it. I found myself nearly completely agreeing with nearly everything you said prior to reading the Takes. This episode lacks energy, and where I differ from you, I completely blame the director Winrich Kolbe. This episode really needed someone who would embrace the “kick some ass” aspect of the final act, and for that I think we really needed Jonathan Frakes or Cliff Bole. I do know that they basically ran out of time while filming the battle in the end. Kang’s awkward death is a result of them not having time to set cameras up for a closeup. Also…a little blood on those blades would have raised the stakes. But, yeah, we’re left with ‘by the numbers’ directing which this episode did not need. It needed more. But I still give it an S. Yep, there are far better episodes, but watching those three old farts gives me a big smile, and at the end of the day, that’s what its all about.”

Well TA, I hope you are happy now that you've crushed the joy of your Patrons... In all seriousness though, it's a decent episode but really needs some better editing. I admit I don't really remember the Klingons in TOS but I do recognise the incredible voices of Michael Ansara and John Colicos. Some of the earlier dialogue scenes were great but others fell flat. The last act was a bit weird, they should have cut the scene where Koloth(?) goes off to 'ask someone' if the albino is home, and the bit where Dax says "I'm lost..." it completely undermines the serious tone set up earlier. Plus, hire some more stunt guys, I swear there were only two of those helmet / visor dudes.

I really never connected with this episode. I had not seen TOS when I first watched DS9. (for me I binged, TNG, DS9, VOY, and THEN finally TOS about a year ago, reluctantly, and only for completions sake. I ended up liking it far better than I thought I would, but it's not my favorite Trek. I know. Blasphemy. I am still getting through Enterprise as we speak. My point is though I never bonded with this episode without the TOS background and by now, it's too late. lol. Aside from that, I don't love the action sequences and I tend to like my Klingon episodes to be about political turmoil, corruption, societal ills, and things like that. It's not a BAD episode by any means, but I can't rate it any higher than a C. Edit: I have been thinking. This episode really is NOT about Klingons at all. They are the dressing. This is literally a sequel or followup to Playing God in that this episode is about Jadzia coming to terms with Curzon and her relationship with him and feelings that, as a newly joined Trill, she doesn't understand yet. It's a Trill episode disguised as a Klingon one. I am willing to say C+ but I do think Playing God and Dax (season 1) did this way better. So okay, I love what this episode did but I still didn't love the episode if that makes sense.

We grew up on the A-Team 😆

While it can be a bit disappointing when you guys don't love an episode as much as the fanbase does, I do appreciate that you're honest in your reactions and don't pretend to love absolutely everything like some reactors do. It makes it so much better when you DO love something because you know it's genuine.

Having still not watched TOS, I like this episode more now than when I first watched it. I appreciate the three distinct performances from the three actors, and the mini arc they have in the way each of them accepted Jadzia in the end. Kor, who feels the most past his prime, being the one to survive is nice.

The Meloria Effect. Sometimes you love episodes that we find meh Sometimes you are meh on episodes that we love Keeps it fresh because I can tell you how every other reactor out there is going to react.

This is another episode where we get a glimpse into the lives of the previous Dax hosts. That really adds a lot to the character.

It was good seeing the three TOS Klingons, but this is a great Dax episode. B

Honestly, I think everything you said about this episode is fair. I also like the Jadzia parts of this episode more so than the legacy Klingons. It took me longer that I'd like to admit back in the day to realize that these were in fact old TOS Klingons. I enjoyed it because we finally get to see that "real Jadzia" a bit more.

This is funny AF. The absolute lack of reaction is amazing. 10/10

A lack of pop when everyone's expecting a pop is just as amusing to me as a pop.

I think Klingons reach physical maturity about twice as fast as humans do, and then after that they age slower.

Alex's "woke Klingon era" joke made this episode so much better

It's a B it kind of misses the mark but I don't why.

Regarding the updated Klingon makeup, to me that's the same as how they've updated the way they create more detailed looking models for the space ships, or how they've updated the visual effects when someone shoots a phaser compared to how they looked in TOS. Bringing everything more in line with the current look and feel of TNG/DS9 makes the most sense IMO.

Picard: So, how old are you Mr. Worf? Worf: Old enough. All Klingon age discussions draw me back to that interchange for some reason.

When you get senior citizens who played as Captain Kirk's enemies in TOS to come back as the highest level of Klingon warrior from an entire race of warriors - and you show them hobbling onscreen, no CGI - it's a nod to them for being the theater actors they are. They said let's do a Klingon play. I thought it was awesome for just doing it.

This is an A from me. Remember it's not just Klingons who can have a long life, remember Bones in Farpoint.

Since I’d spent decades watching Original Series episodes exclusively over and over and over again, it was totally easy to recognize all of the Klingons as they first appear in the episode when it first aired so it’s understandable that you didn’t clue in until later only having seen the original show once through. The make-up didn’t obscure who they were at all for me, and all of their voices are unmistakable. I think this episode is a joy from start to finish just because you get to spend time with those characters again. John Colicos used to frequent a few pubs in The Annex area of Toronto many years ago before he passed, and I’d often get to see him and talk to him while sharing a drink at the bar about his career and his time in Star Trek and on Battlestar Galactica. He was a wonderful guy and I’m really glad that I got to know him a little.

The show will do far better episodes on the personal stakes and cost of combat. This S2 episode feels more like TNG to me. That show could not go to the places DS9 could, as it would have broken the essential spirit TNG was made in. This is not a dig at TNG, just a consequence of the format and the intent behind TNG.

I've sometimes been disappointed in your reactions, but, this is the first time it depressed me. Sometimes you concentrate a bit too much on the technical elements (costumes, makeup) and miss the heart of the story the episode is trying to tell.

This is quite a good episode I feel they spend far too much time arguing about whether or not Dax should go with them. Just when it seems like they might let her come there is still some dissent and she then has to convince another of them to accept it. That's 2/3rds of the episode right there them just arguing with eachother. The scenes become a bit repetitive which slows down the episode

This episode is fine but i think it gets glazed way too much by the fandom. I just dont really have that big of a connection to Kang, Kor and Kolos, just because they were in TOS. Despite the look, which i could excuse it doesnt help that they act nothing like they did back then. It’s neat that they came back, dont get me wrong, but i dont think this episode is the great homage or love letter to TOS that some people make it out to be. Despite the Klingons just being there, for me this episode really has nothing to do with TOS.

I forgot the completely silent scene at the end. I have to say, I really liked how confident the writers were to include this. This is S2 of the "not TNG" trek at the time. This series (ESPECIALLY from the dramatic irony standpoint I get) really excelled at "doing it's own thing." Excited for this journey with you guys.

I see we've reached another milestone where an episode like Genesis knocks their socks off, and then Blood Oath is a B lol Can't always be on the same page, I suppose, but wow lol

I would consider this one a solid A. Honestly this episode was the main one from this season I was excited for you to see. Not only being a Klingon episode but also being a great Dax episode which you guys were waiting for. So waiting almost 2 seasons for it to get here and you guys not super love it, saddened my heart. But you still liked it. B is still a nice score and I can see your points. I personally feel that a reason it doesn't hit that S level is they didn't give it time to really cook. This should be a 2 parter. They build up this "Quest" but the quest only ends up a few minutes at the end. I think it deserved to breath, with the first episode being solely Dax's struggle about honoring the Blood Oath and getting the approval of everyone. The 2nd episode being the actual quest. They could have fleshed it out. Given more Albino scenes/interaction. Give him much better and suitable warriors at the compound besides a bunch of putties and better battle sequences with some damn fake blood on the blades lol. The actor playing the Albino seemed to do a pretty good job, but they gave him hardly any time.

One of the reasons I really like this episode is how reminiscent it is of the Three Musketeers

I just realized rewatching this that when Kor forces open the holosuite doors in the begining they used the original series sound effect for the door opening.

you don't need to think to think that. Its just something unexplained. (the head ridgde thing) Looking back at TOS the Klingons were more totalitarian but had the honor thing a bit. Also, Kirk really dislikes klingons in TOS which makes his attitude in star trek six more understandable. Its not as much a break as you guys think when you actually go back wand watch the episodes with klingons. He does seem to legitimstely sortof hate klingons even bac then

I viewed this as a low A: a high A for Jadzia and fan-service and a B minus for schlock fight scenes

I forget who lived the longest? William Campbell? But John Colicos was the voice of Apocalypse in the 90’s X-men animated. And Micheal Ansara Kang was the voice of mister Freeze from Batman the Animated Series. It was nice to bring these guys back 30 years on.. They were the first 3 Klingons! Main characters anyways.. and Kor being the literal first Klingon as the last survivor.

Well, I was completely wrong about what your reaction to this episode would be. I was certain you were going to love it. I was kind of taken aback by your cold reaction. Not that you don't have some points. And your reasoning is understandable. Still...

I've generally always liked this episode, but not enough to double down on it like some defensive fanboy. Do I think the final fight could use more blood? Not necessarily, but watching it these days I can definitely see how it's very much just a "low energy" Power Rangers fight. When I first watched this episode, I made absolutely ZERO connections between the guest stars present and their original appearances as Legacy Klingons. In short, I always took them at face value, and I felt for them THROUGH Jadzia's emotional interactions with them. I personally think the episode was designed for that purpose--perhaps as a fallback. In short, it doesn't really *matter* that the three Klingons are Legacy characters. Perhaps, though, that works AGAINST this episode, because that factor is more distracting than provoking in any way. If I made a list of top 10 episodes of DS9 thus far, I might still include this in them, but I'm not too terribly attached to it. I really like Kor's character and it's very nice to see more exploration of Dax's character.

I would still give this episode an A. I enjoyed the siege at the end, but I do agree that the action is very... TV-PG, no blood, etc. However, TNG Klingon episodes with some small exceptions had the same problem. Despite those flaws, I still wouldn't actually change a thing about this one. It's a real stand-out episode for me. I truly loved all three of the Klingon warriors. They built that big platform that Data sat on in Masks, then wondered "uhhh, whatever else can we use this for?" It became the Albino's platform where he gets stabbed.

This is the first time I paid for early access Should have saved the money.

"Come up with some reason ..... And fix it more? .... That sounds a bit dumb...." Really? Interesting.

All this talk about Pops just sounds like they are talking about getting a Coke 🤷‍♂️

It was epic at the time this happened. But seeing it now really highlights how forgettable Kang and Koloth were …Kor from errand of mercy was really the only signature Klingon (until Star Trek 3 and then TNG) I do LOVE however how this is a perfect example of how to do call backs and Easter egg things…unlike today’s media which you guys are more used to , this was not bi Hitting us over the head with hey wink wink remember how we all took on Kirk and the enterprise back in the day…it was not overtly fan service level 100

I'd still give this episode an A, maybe on the lower end. I agree the bad choreography and lack of blood really breaks the immersion in the ending fight scenes. The Albino is also pretty forgettable. Still I do think bringing back the big 3 klingons from TOS is a big plus, and I for one don't care about putting them in the TNG makeup. I actually feel Koloth comes off better here than in Tribbles. He almost seemed like more of a troll than anything in that episode, while here he's arguably the most disciplined of the 3. Kang was my favourite TOS klingon, and it's cool he got the killing blow. And of course it's great to see Colicos back as Kor. I love the scene at the bar where's he's acknowledging he isn't the warrior he once was. In that respect, the actors being old works in the episode's favor. Kang's insistence on going on the mission despite it clearly being a trap acknowledges that he like the others knows he's in his final years, and there's not likely to be many more opportunities to die in battle or avenge his son's death. And of course, seeing the writers finally figure out how to use Jadzia in the show is a huge point in the episode's favor. In S1 and early S2 you never guess she could grab a bat'leth and fight. Some great scenes with Kira as well. However I don't think Kira was proud of her at the end. I think that look was more "I hope you can live with it". So while it's not IMO the S tier a lot of people say it is, I still think it's one of the stronger entries this season. Top 10 anyway.

I understand why yall didn’t like the Klingon representation, but man if this isn’t the episode that begins to turn Dax from just “Token technobabble repeater” to one of the best trek characters ever.

I think B on reflection is about right for this one. Tho the Kira and Dax stuff almost pushes it to A.

Putting Playing God above Blood Oath is absolutely wild to me but that's why you're my favourite Trek content creators, you have very big opinions and it is always a delight and really interesting to participate in them instead of someone just going "yeah wow that was really good"

This is one of those episodes that shines more brightly in memory than it does when you actually watch it. I think there are several really great scenes in it, and those are the parts I remember when I think about it. But the pacing just feels off, and the battle can't match the epic tone they were trying to build toward. Right on about Dax though! Terry Farrell and the writers finally feel like they're fully in sync when it comes to her character, and it's really satisfying to see that unfold in a rewatch.

Easy A

Giving it a B sounds fair. It's a fun side-quest to watch, even though lore-wise its important to Dax. Maybe a little warm of a take but I thought the combat wasn't that bad, esp for that era. It makes sense that Klingons and other aliens don't age like humans. Worf's son Alexander was just a year old when he came aboard the Enterprise but looks like he's about 5. If you think about the ancestral environment for Klingons, an offspring maturing as rapidly as possible makes sense, lowering the risk of being eaten or otherwise killed; humans take around a year just to walk, not to mention talking, etc taking even longer!

Bit plodding in places, but some great scenes. Kira / Dax was great. Some nice camera work too. Get your observations around the episode's weak points but overall I really enjoyed this one.

I've got to agree, the ending lets this episode down. Generic goons and bad combat. The Albino is quite underdeveloped as well.

This is where spoilers are helpful sometimes. I remember it being a big deal and that it had been announced before the episode that those guys were going to be on the show. Because of that, I rewatched all of their TOS episodes the week leading up to this episode airing. (By the way, that meant figuring out which VHS tape I had those TOS episodes recorded on!)

No shame in being a Banger!! B is a good score, and is accurate for this episode. First time I watched this, I had no idea who those Klingons were, I just thought they were meant to be old ass Klingons, and I enjoyed it. If Jadzia had the killing blow, it would have given the Kira scene and the final return scene much more gravity - this and a little PG-13 fake blood would have elevated it to an A. Less cheesy costumes for the henchmen and a more imposing actor for the Albino would make it an S.

This episode is highly praised among fans, but I only found it just okay for the same reasons spelled out here. I also believe the makeup issue was problematic, and I really didn't care all that much about the albino. However, I love all the stuff with Dax and her decisions.

Re Jadzia - definitely the most improved character by this point of the show. It’s like the producers suddenly realised what Terry Farrel could do.

Klingons age like Dwarves Vulcans age like Elves Humans age like Humans McCoy ages like Gandalf

Always enjoyed this episode - some great scenes in here and who can’t but help love that they brought back 3 original Klingons slapped them in new makeup and make no reference to it!

a interesting fact, there was only originally going to be one main recurring Klingon in TOS, but each time they were busy with other commitments, so a new actor was brought in, and thanks to that we got this amazing episode

I like your Klingon names lol

Koloth appeared in a TOS episode The Trouble with Tribbles. Also humans live longer too in 23rd and 24th century, it's common to reach 120-140. You yourself saw McCoy at 137 years old in the first episode of TNG. Makes sense, most common diseases that kill us today will have been eradicated by the 23rd century. Coming into triple digits would be equivalent of reaching 60 for us today. As for the episode, I am disappointed you didn't liked it as I hoped you would, but that's okay :). I was also looking forward to this one, marked it on a calendar :D But it is completely fair, different things work for you. And you are also seeing it for the first time, which is a perspective many of us cannot completely relate to.

I have thoughts on albino’s and head ridges, but I’ll keep them to myself

The fight scenes can get repetitive here, so maybe that last fight isn't quiet as exciting as it could be. But give it up to these guys who are probably about 70 years old for doing their best in the fights. It looks like it's them a lot of the time.

I was waiting for them to recognize John Colicos or the name Kor.. 🤦‍♂️

What if the Albino was just a really pale Irish guy?

Shameless fan service, but I'm not immune to that. The actors were a little too old to be doing all the physical scenes, but the multiple scenes that reflected on the nature of honor and death were really nice stuff. I think a B is about right.

Don't blame you for not recognising or remembering the three Klingons right away. I didn't either when I first watched as I'm also not a huge fan of TOS Klingons. The three of them returning and their relationship with Dax is really cool, but I think the episode is mostly loved due to that nostalgia factor rather than real quality. I like the episode, but I don't love it.

I’ve never been clear on whether or not the DAX from Star Trek six the undiscovered country, the crewman who had the gravity boots in their locker Was or was not occurs on Dax the unusual feet on the crewman decks makes me wonder, but also Kruman Dax is not a title. You would normally hear for someone who negotiates Star fleet/Federation treaties.

I think I like it better when you like an episode more than I did.

There's just no pleasing you guys!!! LOL

Go do that Klingon thing you need to do even if you kill someone. You have plot armor

I am with you guys: the build up of having the 3 returning Klingons from TOS did not meet the expectation of what it turned out to be. Let's face it, the actors were all old. Having them in a fighting episode was probably not the best move. The producers and director were not willing to try and explain the discontinuity between their characters' physical appearance. They opted to go with the extra bells and whistles instead.

John Colicos did not want to wear the new Klingon prosthetic make up and resisted and fought it until they finally put their foot down and told him he was going to wear it if he was going to do the show

This is a C episode that is only elevated to a B for me due to the fan service of the 3 Klingons returning from TOS.

I’m guessing the reason you don’t recognize Kohloff is because you didn’t really like the trouble with triples

Houston, we have comprehension The recognition on John calicos starts the avalanche

Can't really fault you guys for not picking up on those BEING the TOS characters right away. The age and different looks of course don't help. Not to mention, press info, etc, at the time probably prepared us. And many of us remembered those characters thanks to decades of reruns. You've only seen them once or twice. And not recently.

Been so excited for this one that I bought it early. Hopefully you love it and don’t crush my tender soul.

All hail the Klingon GOAT, John Colicos!

Love the Klingon outline. My third most hyped episode for you guys to watch of the second season.

I wish I was home to watch this right now, Oh well, it’ll be a couple hours. I’ll be back. This is one of the reactions I have been waiting for