UNCUT - Genesis (TNG S7E19) | Star Trek Journey 314

This always seems to get hate on other forums and review sites and stuff. I always enjoy it. But I love bad horror movies so there's that...

A couple of things on this episode. I appreciate that this episode laid everything out in the beginning. It just seemed like another day in the life episode and then it takes this turn into horror. Props to Dorn, Patti and Dwight for embracing their animal characteristics. Geordi was acting first officer while Data was off with Picard. We see him start to get sleepy, but then we don't see his de-evolution or what happens to him. So I do agree with Josh that the de-evolution could be expanded more. I really enjoyed both your reactions on this.

I always had a soft spot for this episode, never understood the animus towards it. The one thing that DOES big me about it is that Data says "Captain Picard and me" instead of "and I."

Miles: "Can you believe what just happened on the Enterprise??" Keiko: "That's insane, thank god we left and are somewhere that's normal!!" Viewers: '( o.o) (o.o )'

Interesting makeup but that’s about it. An unevenly paced episode with a telegraphed ending. Marina Sirtis’ “fish acting” looks like something straight out of a theatre school exercise. It also felt like kind of a waste of Barclay here. I thought it would have been more interesting for Worf to be the only one transformed and stalking and murdering crewmates. They did a DIE HARD tribute episode so why not an ALIEN one? Imagine when Worf is returned to normal having to deal with the destruction and death he caused. He would have a lot in common with Picard after his Locutus experience. I would like to have seen a conversation between them about that.

It would be interesting to know if the people who don’t like this episode because of the bad science also don’t like The Chase? Maybe the progenitor race programmed everyone’s introns to include amphibians, reptiles, spiders etc…

I was pretty harsh on this in the Patron Takes but the rewatch did soften my opinion of it a little. I still think it's a bit nonsensical - they tried to technobabble away the reason why all the humans didn't just turn into neanderthals like Riker, but that was one of the things that took me out of the experience. And the magic reset button is still in evidence, but I guess that's a Trek staple by now. Gates did a stirling job, but there wasn't much to the plot really, it was all about the spectacle. I do love a good horror episode though and enjoyed this more than I was expecting, so I'll raise my mark to a C. I'd love to see a TA ranking of all the horror episodes in Trek when we get to a good point to do it though. Do it!

Also, it is flatly incorrect to compare the reality of science fiction to wrestling. Wrestling is entirely fiction from top to bottom. Like a fantasy novel. Science fiction is often based on, wait for it...SCIENCE. Matter/Antimatter and their reaction with each other? Real. The potential to one day generate huge scale energy with it? REAL. Conducting energy through plasma? Real. Warp drive as a *theoretical exercise* in physics? REAL. (See the Alcubierre drive) Nuclear fusion propulsion as in impulse engines? Entirely possible. (Large scale fusion test reactors are being built and experimented with as we speak. Check it out). Directed energy weapons? Real. Mounted on Navy ships as we speak. And so on and so forth. There is an admittedly stretched and far from perfect and very often completely ridiculous (such as in this episode) underpinning to a lot of things that are in fact...very real. That whole buried, inactive DNA thing? That is very real. We do in fact carry a mountain of DNA we no longer use. You can simply look any of this up. Science Fiction is speculative. Its about toying with what might happen in some possible future. Its NOT the same as Gandalf fighting a Balrog, or some pro wrestler's plotline or whatever. Scifi is DEFINED by that connection to the real. Its a stark difference to fantasy, with requires no connection to anything real at all.

I agree with BN13 below. Its not that the characters aren't also important...but what distinguishes Star Trek is the FRAMEWORK of it. The UNIVERSE. The sandbox. That future fictional history that connects with our own timeline, instead of being some fantasy universe. Characters can come and go, and make their mark...but the universe is persistent. It keeps going. New characters take the stage, do their thing, and then bow out. But the sandbox remains. That's what makes any of these big franchises actually interesting: The canon. The lore. The persistence of the paracosm regardless of the characters who temporarily inhabit it. This is why the retconning and the complete disregard for what's already established is such a problem, and why the fandom has so been so harshly critical of Nu Trek. The MCU and Star Wars universes also profit from their own established lore and persistent universes....and also SUFFER when retconned and disrespected. Yeah, the characters matter...but like I said. Not the be all end all. They come and go. But the UNIVERSE remains. THAT is the key.

When people say "this isn't Star Trek," we're not talking about the random sci-fi plots of the week. To me, and I think to a significant portion of the fanbase, including Gene Rodenberry, Star Trek isn't even about the characters at all. Don't get me wrong, the characters are great, and we love the character stuff. But at it's core, we view "Star Trek" as what it's ABOUT. Or at least, what it's ideally supposed to be about. Which is hope for the future, exploring humanity as a whole, and exploring ideas. Also, overcoming our prejudices, accepting others for who they are without drama, and challenging ourselves to be better and grow as a species. And yes, this also includes exploring ourselves, and our own flaws and traumas. And I actually believe that one day, despite all of our crap down here, we'll eventually get to be a Type 1 civilization just like Earth in Star Trek, and I think technology like Ai is going to help get us there. Personally, I don't care who directed an episode, how the cinematography was done, whether or not we have ridiculous looking TOS makeup aliens, or even if the episode was boring as hell, poorly executed, or absolute cringe, as long as it accomplishes the above things. Which is why some of my favorite episodes actually include The Chase, Loud as a Whisper, Who Watches the Watchers, and believe it or not, most of TNG Season 1. But obviously, that's not ALL Star Trek is. There's an equally significant part of the fanbase that you fall into who considers Star Trek to be primarily a character show, even to the exclusion of everything else. But I guess, as Picard said to Nigillum in Where Silence Has Lease, I believe, that what Star Trek is, has grown to be more than either of these philosophies. There is just so much that Star Trek can do. It can explore strange new worlds, but it can also be wildly off the wall entertaining with no other real purpose. It can comment on and explore some deeply philosophical, psychological, political, and universal themes, and it can also be absolute hot garbage. Anymore, the only time I consider something to be "Not Trek" is if it breaks the world building so bad, and the writing is so horrendous, that you feel like you're watching a completely different show written by people who've never watched Star Trek that's trying to poorly copy game of thrones. Which unfortunately, yes we will get there. But we can enjoy the good times while they last.

You nailed it with Brannon Braga. His specialty is "weird ass shit is happening." Along with some "creative" interpretations of how the science is supposed to work in order to make the weird stuff happen. Especially if we're talking about something like evolution like in this episode. Then the science gets beyond laughably bad. His episodes can be hit or miss. But when they are done well, they are done very well. And when they are "bad" they can be legendary. I can see why people would love his episode, and why they would hate it. I'm kind of in the middle. Episodes that are little more than "weird shit is happening" are not why I watch Trek. But they can still be entertaining in their own right. And this one is certainly very entertaining if you can just accept it for what it is. If anything, this episode is very memorable. Plus for me, this one still managed to make the cut of TNG Season 7 episodes that I actually bothered to rewatch this time. Apparently I like this one more than Gambit even though Gambit has an ending that I actually DO watch Star Trek for. I guess I find primordial stuff more interesting than Space Pirates.

I love this episode.

1:08:05 I don't like this episode but I agree, it's well made. My biggest problem with it is that there's a magic wand happy ending, everything back to normal, but something like this happening would have drastic lasting consequences. THOSE would be entertaining! (Beverly getting blasted in the face with acid is the be best part of this one.)

I like Alex's shirt! 🎃

I knew you guys would like this one. Even though it's completely preposterous, and the easy "happy ending" is even more preposterous. For example, if Riker's brain really shrank, he would not be able to be "cured" just by going back to normal. He would be a mental vegetable the rest of his life. He would also require surgical alteration to get back to his normal appearance.

This is such a TOS-y episode.

I'm glad you both loved this one! It's nice when you love one that I hate. This episode is D grade, saved from failure only by the direction of Gates McFadden. The script is the dumbest thing I've ever seen excepting maybe one episode of ST: VOY. The script is so dumb, this episode could never be good. But I love how McFadden expertly deploys every horror film trope she can. This is probably my second worst episode of S7, after "Masks". I was hoping on this rewatch my opinion would increase. But no. I can't get over the execrable science. The entire plot is nonsensical. This is probably one of my bottom 20 episodes of all of TNG. I cannot get over the extremely BAD BAD BAD science. But definitely kudos to McFadden for some excellent horror direction. Edited: Unfortunately, Alex, they ARE saying that the cat came from an iguana. They didn't get other species' DNA. Data says they are reverting to earlier forms of their *own* species. Now maybe you understand why some of us are taken completely out of the episode due to that dumb writing.

On Worf's teeth, I don't think it was easy to tell at the original broadcast quality on tube TV's.

This episode illustrates the difference between what gets called "technobabble" and what actually is just nonsensical and stupid. Star Trek technobabble, at least during this era, actually does have a scientific underpinning and a logical consistency...still a stretch, but not completely absurd. What happens in this episode, however, is simply idiotic and makes no sense whatsoever. Zero scientific underpinning. Just sciency words that don't line up with science. Sort of like how Star Wars is not science fiction... But rather just fantasy in a fantastical science fiction setting. In Star Trek we have an actual scientific underpinning and theoretical basis for something like matter and antimatter and warp drive etc. In Star Wars they just travel in spaceships instead of on horses while going about using swords and magic to fight dark wizards and rescue princesses. It's a really big difference. This episode would be better in the Star Wars universe.

Really weird on, but a whole lot of fun

Alex: "Hopefully it stays that way and nothing happens" ...lol

This episode is just too stupid for me and a lot of it sure is just Data explaining nonsensical science stuff. Extremely shocked by the white boards 😂

As a biology professor, I can’t help but notice there are a few simple things the writers could have done to help the episode make more scientific sense. Making it a bit more inclusive for those who are scientifically inclined would be a welcome improvement, as long as it doesn’t detract from the story. Still, that hardly matters—it’s one of my favorite TNG episodes. S-tier!

I can't help but wonder what happened to all the civilians and children aboard. Can you imagine some poor teacher trying to wrangle a class full of de-evolving children. One of which IS a Klingon?

I love this one. so much fun. Great watching it again

This is one of the ones I can remember watching for the first time when I was five years old on cable.

I'm surprised by responses. This is such a Meh C to me. Its ok. Glad many people enjoy it so much though.

This one rivals “Spock’s Brain” as one of the dumbest Star Trek premises ever.

I think the episode wasn't liked much by fans at first aiiring because the seperation of genres was stricter than today. Sci-Fi was Sci-fi. Horror was Horror. Yes, there was 'Alien' already but that was kind of unique thing.

I was far too young when this episode first aired and it was way too scary for me, so I've always skipped it on rewatches. I enjoyed it on my first rewatch!

Random thought: Who wins in a fight, De-evolved Worf, or a Gorn?

Should have Aired during holloween, just a fun epiosde

Keiko will stop bitching about being on the station after reading these logs

The music at certain points reminded me of the music in Alien.

I really enjoyed rewatching this episode, which I hadn't seen since the '90s and don't really remember what I thought of it back then (probably thought it was a bit silly). It's really well done for the kind of story it is. The thing I have to force myself to ignore is something that is common to a lot of Star Trek stories. Some disease or phenomenon takes over one or more crew members that, in real life, would have irreversible consequences. Even if the crew were restored physically, their memories would be gone. But a cure is found just in time and everyone (except the dead) are back to normal, basically because it's a series and you can't kill off the regular cast like that. If this story were made as a standalone movie, outside of the Star Trek franchise, the android might be the only one to survive to tell the tale.

Also, I will give you two the credit for this: It is because of your channel that I've started paying closer attention to who directs an episode of TV that I'm watching. I would casually pick up on it here and there, but I've definitely kicked that up a notch or two since I noticed you two doing that.

I'll push back a little bit on the 'none of it makes sense' response to sort of hand wave away specific things in an episode that don't make sense. While it's obviously a fictional show, I think, for one thing, Star Trek in this era was known for at least making attempts to consult with scientists when they could in order to try to tie their science fiction to something actually scientific, at least to some degree, in order to try to add some scientific plausibility. Not always, of course, but I admire that they did that in general. And many times on these shows, they tried to make logical sense out of character decisions and plot points, which sadly is not as common now in a lot of TV shows and movies IMO. I really do appreciate that shows like TNG tried harder to make sense instead of just saying 'fuck it'. It's part of what makes these shows as high quality as they are, and why they are still remembered and celebrated to this day.

"The premise is preposterous!" Science FICTION, my guy!!! Super fun episode!

This was the first TNG episode to air after I got married in March 1994. I remember not really liking it and have never rewatched it until now. It’s much better on this rewatch. B

Episode is stupid, but I kind of love it. It's the good kind of stupid.

TNG's Catspaw

Loved this episode! A fun episode that gave me nightmares when it 1st aired

Wait a second, would Barclay and Data make a great couple? 😂

The best thing about a rewatch is seeing the little acting choices like Nurse Ogawa leaving the briefing room with primate hands/fists on the table and Barclay sitting backwards on Data's chair when talking about Spot with his legs and arms spread out like a spider.

100% agree with Josh this should have been a 2 parter. My only criticism is that it goes from Worf chasing Picard through the tubes and then 30 seconds later he’s revealing on a log that everyone is back to normal. It’s not really a proper criticism as the show just ran out of time, but a 2nd episode would have fixed it and also turned it into a TV film. I watched a recording of Gates doing a live director’s commentary on this episode (unfortunately there’s a spoiler right at the beginning if you haven’t seen later ST series) it seems she was rightfully proud of her work here. Apparently she was well into the horror aspects and pushed the script beyond what it was going to be. She wanted spider Barclay coming down from the ceiling but was denied by the studio, which is a damn shame!

The weapons test was simply a plot device to get Picard & Data off the ship, so they could come back later as the detectives to solve the mystery & remedy the Virus. ps Gates Direction is so good, because she was a Choeographer. Often credited as Cheryl McFadden, who worked as the Director of Choreography and Puppet Movement for several Jim Henson productions, including Labyrinth and The Muppets Take Manhattan. She also choreographed scenes in Star Trek: The Next Generation, such as the dance scene in the episode "Data's Day," and has extensive experience in theater. While acting, she is credited as Gates McFadden, but for her choreography work, she typically uses Cheryl McFadden to distinguish between the two careers.

See this is why I subscribe to this channel -- I see now that this was a much better episode than I remembered. I was so used to stylish direction at this point in TNG's run that I didn't notice Gates McFadden giving 10,000% on that camera work. The premise is broad and goofy, but in exactly the kind of way that a good sci-fi show can explore. This feels like it could have been a TOS episode, but TOS could never have pulled it off right with the '60s constraints they were under. Also the actors went hard into their de-evolved roles, and this episode could have died on the vine if they weren't willing to commit the way they did. And the SCORE! How did I never notice this score, especially after a couple seasons of "let's have the horns play a few notes and call it background music"?? Magnificent stuff. Final thought: I love that incipient-pygmy-marmoset Picard's first instinct was to climb away from Worf. I wouldn't have given this episode anywhere near an S before I watched your reaction, but now I can see it. It's just so memorable in a bunch of good ways.

I love it, it's S! You wondered if they struggled to keep a straight face in the scene where Picard and Data found Troi in the bath, probably. Considering the amount of joking, and giggling Marina has said all 7 of the main actors did during filming. Those 7 are still close friends now and have dinner parties together etc.

I already loved this episode, but to see how much you guys loved it too made it even better. Thanks for that.

There's a subtle thing at the end of the conference room scene -- when Ogawa stands up, she rests her knuckles on the table and drags them a bit, something that apes and primates do, foreshadowing her eventual transformation

Wow, this was WILDLY more entertaining than I remember this episode being. And that jump scare where Worf sprays Beverly with acid was legitimate unnerving... awesome episode.

This episode is a blast. I love seeing the behavior of the actors as they start to transform - Barclay's hyperactivity, Riker getting dimmer...and in her scene in the conference room, when Nurse Ogawa leaves the table, she puts her fists on the table kind of like a gorilla. Fun!

Horrible Episode Horrible!

Thank you so much for the 9am release. Star Trek before workday is the best day.

I first watched this episode when I was a kid, Spider Barclay scared me so bad I didn’t watch it again until I was an adult.

I would love you guys to go through the bloopers for TNG when you finish watching it. They're great.

I'm reminded of how Brent Spiner feels about acting with spot and the shot with all the kittens. I imagine his reaction was something like: "Oh god, there's more of them now"

For decades now, a war has ranged across the internet, between those who think Sub Rosa is the most ridiculous episode of TNG, and those who think it’s actually this one.

A PHENOMENAL episode and a highlight of Season 7 and the show in general. Top 5 of all time TNG? No. But would it make it on my Top 10 List? Very VERY likely. I could care less that introns do not actually work the way this episode says. after all, dreams (and sleep in general) don't exactly work the way Nightmare on Elm Steet depicts them, physics and anatomy do not work the way it's depicted in Final Destination, etc. Nobody cares. :) A+, and catch me on the right day it's an S. The sound, tension and lighting are all top-level. I cannot think of a single complaint other than I would have wanted to see Barclay-Spider a bit more.

Who's looking after Spot???? LMAO.

Guys I love the system offline effect on your frame for the reaction!

Episodes like this I’m like “think of the children!” We never see them or hear about them hopefully no kids got eaten..

I honestly never paid attention to who directed as a kid or even as a adult on various rewatches.

Well, teasing me with "Genesis" Early Access finally got me to cave and bump up my tier level. I love this episode, but I like the trashier TNG entries. Gates McFadden did an amazing job giving us a monster-filled haunted house Enterprise drifting in space. I ate it up when it first aired. I'm eating it up still.

I'm still a bit annoyed that my patron comment was removed. Apparently calling Worf "rapey and bitey" was offensive. Even though that's exactly what he is in this episode.

It's ok.

Always loved this one. Fucking mental 🤣

I've changed my mind on season 7... It's great.

So I always considered this a guilty pleasure because it always seemed like a lot or most trekkies thought it was terrible. Over the years it seemed like it had won a lot of them over, and the guilty part went away. Apparently there's still a fair number who think it sucks. But whatever, I love this episode. It doesn't meet my definition of an S tier, but it's a solid A. Very entertaining and unique episode. I love the "haunted house" vibe of the Enterprise, and the proto klingon Worf was nightmare fuel as a kid. It's a very Halloween kind of episode even though it first aired about as far away from Halloween as you can get. It does lose a lot of it's punch on rewatch, but as a kid the scene where Picard is trying to close the turbolift door really got my heart rate up. And yeah, the science of this episode makes no sense. Even if cats and Iguanas have a common ancestor, Spot would have deevolved into something from BEFORE that split. Trek isn't hard sci fi, but it's usually more grounded in real science than that. Still, Trek has done stupider stuff, and it doesn't bother me because the episode is fun. Regarding McFadden's directing, I suspect if she had directed 5-6 eps over the run of the show she wouldn't have been as original. During the Berman era there was basically a policy of leaving the door open to cast members who wanted to direct(apparently a holdover from Nimoy and Shatner directing the movies). It's nice they allowed them the option to expand their skillset. But AFAIK it had to be requested. Cast members weren't just tapped to direct randomly. So if Gates suddenly got her chance to direct just a few eps before the end, I can see why she'd give it 120% and be as creative as possible. For Frakes or Bole/Kolbe/Landau, I can see them being more focused on just delivering a competently directed episode, unless the episode itself calls for particularly creative shots. If you're directing your 8th or 10th episode, you're just not going to have the same desire to leave your mark on it as you would if it's first and probably last chance to direct after 7 years on the show. So in a way I'm glad Gates saved all her best ideas up for 7 years and crammed them into this episode. As for the skin they found, it was Troi's. Also we can add Troi bathing in her uniform to Geordi sleeping in his.

God I LOVE this episode. One of the highlights of the season. Gates' direction, the good ol' fashioned MONSTER MAKEUP! Some may say a lost art.

All time favourite. Don’t know why this is such a controversial episode, I enjoyed it every time watching. Spider Barclay, Neanderthal Riker, Monster Worf, Aqua Troi…amazing ^^

Loved this when I first saw it. Love it on rewatch. It’s so much fun!

Interesting situation for the sex scoreboard. Do we or don't we count a bopper for Worf. First let's get a couple of things of consideration. Troi has a score with Worf so she could not get another regardless. Also Riker could get one as we have been scoring BUT I think the thing with the needles in the back so no. Now I am not completely convinced Riker would not finish if the needles happened DURING a Number One Bangin, but I am going with it was not started so he didn't. Now for Worf. He does not have a Worfing of Troi so if it did happen we would count it. BUT the timing is not right. He bites her and she goes to sick bay (I know how you feel brother). So nothing but a bite is not a score. She is in sick bay when Data and Primate to be Picard are there. Worf then shows up trying to get in and they lure him away. Now IF he made it into sick bay we may have a different story but NO SCORE for the armored Worf ribbitting the Frog Troi. **edited addition** Spot 1 +1 new (at least 1 maybe many as i am sure she is a slut like her uncle Riker. Thanks @Worf and Riker Ride Again for pointing out the missing Catty style bangin'.

I haven't seen this episode in years and was put off rewatching because of the reputation it has but I really enjoyed this! Yes, it's a little bizarre and I don't know whether it makes sense scientifically or not, but in the end, it's entertaining and a lot of fun and that's all that matters. Great reaction!

When you say it's a show set in the future, it doesn't make sense scientifically, Star Trek was always set apart in that regard. I'm not defending this episode or talking against it, just saying what the franchise's stand is when it comes to science. They have scientific advisors tying to make hypothetical science concepts plausible. Not for TOS as it was so early on (as far as I know, I could be wrong), but for later series they became more serious. Sometimes it doesn't work, but it also isn't in the same magic category as some other sci-fi shows. That is also the reason some fans love it as much as they do. I know that aspect is not that important to you and that is completely fair. I myself am somewhere in between. Regarding this episode I love it, it was always highly entertaining to me. I consider it a solid to high B.

I love this episode, but I will stick up for the notion that "it doesn't make sense scientifically" CAN sometimes be a reasonable criticism. Yes, it's all made up, but there's a difference - for me, at least - between doing stuff with made-up concepts like subspace or chroniton particles and doing stuff that supposedly involves real things like introns and evolution. Again, for me, that's not a problem in this episode - I can turn that part of my brain off and go with it, and the episode is so good that it doesn't matter. But there are other episodes where that's not the case for me, and I totally get it if that's a problem some people have with this one.

The 1 thing I remembered about this episode was the Barclay-spider jump scare. Got me in 1994 and again today.

I just noticed for the first time Ogawa was knuckling the table in the conference room like a primate when she stood up. Love the little details like this, so yes, definitely fun on a rewatch.

So what happened to Geordi in the devolved state? Or did I just miss it?

All the people saying that the plot of this episode doesn't make scientific sense, forgetting that we share 99% of our DNA with bananas. Somewhere on that ship was a red shirt that got turned into a banana man.

Michael Dorn not wearing his Klingon teeth in that eating scene wouldn't have been visible back when it was broadcast in standard definition in the 90s

The water dripping in Deanna's quarters reminded me of a Ridley Scott effect.

Woo!

you might not have noticed but Picard's fish turned into a jellyfish

Dwight Schultz upgraded his toupe for this episode.

Bevert was in stasis after she was attacked by Worf. Ogawa said she was put in stasis and would need reconstructive surgery

This episode will definitely make your greatest hits of most fun reactions.

This episode was not as well-received when it came out. That's all I will say.

Nice to see that the guy who played the dead crew man at ops got some lines earlier in the story. This was the first time I noticed that.

Gates McFadden was a choreographer before this, and I think that comes across in the blocking and how everyone moves so fluidly. It's the kind of episode you could still enjoy even with the sound off.

Boot Gambit out of the 2 part episode and give it to this please. Would have been much better. Love this episode so much. My favorite little foreshadowing is right before we switch to Data and Picard returning, you see Nurse Ogawa walk away from the conference room and she uses her knuckles on the table while she walks away. Totally looks like an ape or something. Wonderful little detail, among many in this episode. i knew you two would love it.

I hope in a few week (yes im sorry for the reminder) that you guys watch some of the bloopers as a kinda lets look back at the series and get some good laughs. :)

The fact Gates McFadden only directed the show for the first time half a dozen eps from the end is criminal! She does good work 😅