UNCUT - Profit and Loss (DS9 S2E18) | Star Trek Journey 313

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version QUARK SCORES!!!!! And shoots. The sex score board Quark 4 +1 new Jadzia 2 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 GUEST: Natima +1 new DETAILS: This is a stretch but we are assuming some sneaking away quickie.

I love that when Ferengis plead, they bring their wrists together just under the palms & hands pushed back. Basically how it would look with someone pleading in handcuffs.

Ah, plain, simple Garak. One of the best characters in DS9, for me anyway. A great episode!

A for me.

Re: Chief That IS the Federation's ass!

The assassination mission was covert and went against the already said agreement of prisoner exchange, so the Cardassians can't say anything really.

The scene between Garak and Quark in Garak's shop is one of many reasons why people generally consider DS9 to be the most well written show even if it isn't their favorite show.

Love Garak. I think ya missed the connection of Bashir and Garaks talk at the beginning.

I think that the guest actors might have been slightly weak but I wouldn’t say they were “bad.” There have been worse guest performances on TNG that you’ve let slide. Quark, Odo and Garak are always brilliant so it easily makes up for any deficiencies in performances from others.

I agree with Josh that the guest performances were subpar, and it made buying into the romance hard. But the overall storyline and especially Garak's inclusion push this into high B territory. It could have been even better, but still very enjoyable.

Haha, awesome reaction 😂🤜🤛 Great episode too.

I keep expecting a Sisko's Log during the opening credits

I'm really excited for the rest of your season 2 reactions! Thanks for the fun watch, as always!

I assume Garak and Quark could just say it was those "terrorists" who killed the Gul

Of all the gin joints on all the space stations in all the galaxy, she had to walk into Quarks.....

I thought Alex's take on this was great as far as Garak letting them live on rather than having them become martyrs and now I want to consider that. My view was always that Garak thought Gul Toran was not what he valued Cardassia should be and that Toran gaining status by completing his mission was intolerable to Garak. So, he'd rather vaporize him than allow that to happen (because he loved Cardassia).

Josh, I’m pretty sure that animals are self-aware. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t interact with humans in the manner that they do. Not to mention their interactions within their various groups packs prides flocks etc etc etc. Yes, varying degrees of self-awareness, but self-aware nonetheless.

Anytime Andrew Robinson's Garak is in an episode it is an instant A for me. He is my favorite character in all of Trek.

Well, now I'm REALLY curious what your takes on Casablanca would be.

Now that I've finally seen the episode for the first time... I appreciate showing a more sinister side of Garak, especially this early on. The moments between Garak and Quark, Quark and Odo were great. I appreciate the dialogue-intensive moments, especially with the hidden meaning behind so many words. I agree with Josh on the guest characters, though. They were quite wooden. And while the episode was well-directed, I felt that it was intensely OVER-written. Don't get me wrong, the dialogue-intensive moments worked REALLY WELL... on occasion. But for the most part--especially with Quark and Natima--it felt waaaaaaay to repetitive and time-wasting. For the same reasons Josh did, I found it hard to emotionally "buy into" the love between those two. I also echo the sentiment of "how are we going to recover from this" in terms of the escaped Cardassians and the vaporized Gul. If it hasn't been discovered already, ya'll will see that sometimes consequences are either fully obsessed over in DS9... or absurdly ignored. Like... what happens with the Bajoran prisoners in the exchange, now? And does Odo suffer any fall out from Sisko or Kira? How many times will we see Odo "break" the law instead of going by the book... and still be Odo? Definitely a mixed episode, but I think the high points surpass the low points. About a 6.5 out of 10 for me.

I actually completely agree with Josh regarding Natima and her feelings toward Quark. I had the same reaction when I watched this episode a month ago. When she 180d right after she shot him, her reaction completely caught me off guard. I believed her too when she said she wasn't in love, and I thought they were going to stick with that. And speaking from experience, I think if she did stick with that, it would have been more realistic. Sometimes one person completely moves on and the other one has a hard time letting go. But what we got was still ok. I also give this one a B.

Yes , the guest stars in this one aren't great. They drag down the episode. I don't buy the "students" as terrorists or revolutionaries. For the missing Gul, the Cardassians will likely just blame it on the escaped "terrorists". After all, they think Garak was trying to help them. However, the episode is a cute tribute to Casablanca. Quark is great in it. I like seeing this different angle on Quark. I actually don't think this is that far out of line with what we see from Quark in the series. As Alex says, people can behave very differently when they are in love. I like the Quark/Odo scene. I also love Garak in it. For the meaning of the ending, I think Alex is on the right track. Garak says in this episode that he didn't agree w/the government's order to kill them. So, apparently he thinks it is better for Cardassia if their movement lives on. In the opening scene he tells Bashir that personal loyalty isn't important, and it is loyalty to the state that is important. Apparently he doesn't equate the current government with the "state".

i always saw it as she needed Quarks help, but knew she couldn't stay, so she was trying to keep him away emotionally, but then shooting him broke the dam, she had really cared for him and couldn't deny it any more, honestly it one of the most interesting romances trek done, first time i have wanted to know the backstory of how they met and got together

I enjoyed this one, but agree the guest were not great. This one seems to have a lot of Casablanca (1942) type scenes. Not going to spoil the movie Casablanca if you have not seen it. Great Movie. the best. I, The Jury, is a real Mickey Spillane novel and has been made into movies I, the Jury (1953) and I, the Jury (1982)

I think this episode proves that Quark is a complete character and not just a caricature. He is shallow and self-centered, but you can understand his motives and predict his responses.

the conversation between Bashir and Garak in the beginning sort of explains the line, "and I love Cardassia"

Andrew Robinson Rules, He is so great playing both SIdes of Menace and Sincerity, and Yes its amazing how good Armin is and How far their opinion of Ferengi's have come from their early TNG days. Mary Crosby was Fine too as was the Gul captain, a well written episode. Since the Students were not the Main Focus their flat performance doesn't bother me

Garak should have been a regular character. He’s great.

Love is often a rollercoaster of emotions, including denial and sudden mood swings from one extreme to another. So I bought into that just fine.

Also, I believe this is the episode where Armin Shimerman said he was told by the director to play it serious, but apparently he later heard from the writers and/or producers that they had envisioned him playing it more as a joke. If I have that right, I'm glad it worked out the way that it did to give Quark more depth/layers. I think making it silly would have hurt the episode and boxed him in more as a character.

I'm sure that Garak would happily take the credit for the unfortunate accident of the Gul when he talks to his Cardassian contacts.

As to Garak's motivation, he said earlier in the episode he values loyalty to the state over loyalty to family, and he did say that killing the trio would make them martyrs, so I interpret that to mean he thinks keeping them alive is better for the state than letting the Gul shoot them.

I kind of see where you are coming from Josh not buying into the love story totally, but sometimes you don't realise how much something means to you until you come close to losing it. When she shot Quark and for a split second thought he was dead it could easily have made her realise her true feelings which had been hidden by anger. God i'm going deep for once on a Cardassian/Ferengi love story too😂

I assume the Cardassian military might believe the Gul botched it and got shot by the trio he was after. I believe it was the same 'gun' type used by Garak that she used earlier to stun Quark. Garak also seems to think he's an unimpressive man, so perhaps the military shares that opinion and would find it believable that he fucked it up?

I love this one, it's a B from me. I liked Mary Crosby but not the two students. Always a pleasure seeing Garak. Great things also from Quark and Odo. Alex actually says he loves Quark, i bet in the early days of TNG he never expected to love any Ferengis.

"Maybe I am an outcasted spy." You never know if Garak lies or says the truth. That's why he is such a great character.

This was a direct homage to Casablanca- they wanted to call the episode "Here's Lookin' at You" and they were threatened with legal action so changed the title

Cardassian "4-play"..."How many lights?"...." I...see.... 4....lights...."

This is an okay episode that is greatly aided by Garak.

It's important to remember Garek's "I love Cardassia".

The students are supposed to be leaders, yet they carry zero aura about them and seemed confused and weak? These two are important radical leaders? Poorly casted for sure. Natima was passable acting for me but I'm easily swayed by a pretty face. They did try to hint at her hidden love, they had multiple shots prior in the episode where they lingered on Natima where she was "holding back emotions" faced. Maybe she was too subtle to catch on a first watch? But everything else in the episode is fantastic. Garak and Quarks scenes were great watching them play off each other.

I didn't realise until I recently did a rewatch of the Dirty Harry movies, that DS9's two most frequent Cardiassians so far (Garak and Ducat) were both played by Dirty Harry villains.

I think B+ is a fair grade for this one. I do see the issues with the guest performers, the 2 students in particular had pretty phoned in performances. In Crosby's case however(maybe all of them), I think it was more an issue with the material she had to work with. I appreciate the actual story, but a lot of the dialogue is very fanfic romance in quality. It just doesn't ome off as real or true to the characters. As for Natima's sudden turn, obviously she felt regret for shooting Quark, but I wonder if part of it wasn't just an act all along. Maybe she wasn't quite as done with Quark as she initially said, and maybe she isn't quite as deeply in love as she seems at the end. I think she forgave him, and did have some feelings for him, but I also think she was overselling it to get his help. Maybe I'm giving the writing too much credit. And Garak becomes slightly less ambiguous. Obviously he wasn't always just a tailor, but what he did or why he was exiled is still unclear. But we now know the man is a stone cold killer. Not that I blame him, that guy was an ass.

This episode is basically Casablanca.

I, the Jury is the 1947 debut novel of American crime fiction writer Mickey Spillane, the first work to feature private investigator Mike Hammer. It's canon, Odo reads crime novels. LOL

The more Alex makes these cryptic references to his love life, the more I think he should launch a sitcom based on it...

I'd like to see Scotty and O'Brien work together. That was a missed opportunity in Relics.

yeah, for some reason cardassian women are more attractive then klingons or romulans

I'm guessing a taylor like Garak knows how to clean up his messes

This episode is fine, In my opinion the next episode starts a run of really good to great episodes.

I feel like it was subtle but with her holding the glass you could tell she was choosing to hold back then when she thinks she killed hthe dam breaks

love Odo's look in the background when Sisko explains the Bajoran governent has agreed to turn them over. So subtle but sets up his actions which fit with his chaaracter so well

I honestly don't know what happened with Andrew Robinson lol. So he played Kristy's father in Hellraiser (1987) and of course Garek in DS9 (1993), but he was TERRIBLE in Hellraiser. (and it's one of my favorite horror movies and franchises in general). As Garek he is fantastic. That dude found his acting chops during that six year period! As far as this episode goes? Eh. It's there. I don't dislike it, but on its own, it doesn't do much for me. The love story aspect brought it down, but that's a personal preference as I do not like romance plots in pretty much anything. C+

An episode which parts are greater than the whole I think. Garak and Quark make this episode better than it could have been I’d agree the other guests were a bit meh

That change in behavior for her was a bit sudden. She might have really felt that way but it wasn't acted as such. But okay. Also a goof I noticed, the cloaking device fell out of Quark's hand when he was shot and it was just left there on the floor off screen. It's a small nitpick, but Odo would never have missed it when he entered the room. Overall it's an okay episode.

One of those episode I haven’t watched that much and maybe judge too harshly so it’s nice to revisit it.

I enjoyed this rewatch more than I expected. Quark and Garak are great. I may go as far as to say Quark may be my favorite character on the show. And I buy his actions fine. Sure, we see different aspects of his character, but Quark is generally a decent guy... for a Ferengi.

This is a solid A+ for me. Armen Shimmerman and Andrew Robison really knocked it out of the park. Rene Auburjonois was also his usual excellent self. The guest performances were a little weak which is quite unusual for this series. My theory is the makeup process teamed with the tight shooting schedule probably took a heavy toll. 5 actors in full Cardasian makeup in addition to Quark and Odo probably put a real strain on the shooting schedule to the point where they weren't given the amount of takes that a single actor may be given. A complete theory on my part but it's the best I've got.

Its funny how the masks make you focus on recognizing prior guest star voices instead of faces. Gul Toran was played by Edward Wiley who was in a Klingon mask last time in Minds Eye, had that great swearing scene with Picard "and you speak the lies of a taah kek!"

Not only did I forget about this one until this rewatch, I never noticed that it was so much like a Ferengi/Cardassion version of Casablanca. And Claude Rains' police captain in that movie acts very much like Garak. I don't remember if they ever said he was inspired by that character.

"I, the Jury" is a real book written by Mickey Spillane, the first in a series of private eye novels featuring Mike Hammer. It set a new standard in novels of that type because some of the writing was considered salacious for the time.

This week on DS9, Alex debates which species of alien women would degrade him most. Spoiler alert: Its all of them.

Casablanca IN SPACE !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have to go with Josh on this one. Quark and Garrick carried this episode. B at best.

Mary Crosby, who played Natima, is the daughter of Bing Crosby and the aunt of Denise Crosby (even though she is two years younger). She is also a part of television history because she played Kristen Shepard on "Dallas" who, back in 1981, was revealed to be the character who (spoiler alert!) shot J.R. Ewing.

You can feel it, can't you? The show is starting to figure out what it is.

Fair review above a c but not close to best of the show so far.

I believe that she did love him but only because he lied to her, knowing quark he probably pretended to be an angel around her and she was too gullible to know what was happening