UNCUT - Second Sight (DS9 S2E9) | Star Trek Journey 295

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Quark 3 Chief 1 Keiko 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 Jadzia 1 DETAILS: An almost Sisko-ing but nope

The ship Alex is thinking about in the beginning is the U.S.S. Phoenix from the TNG episode "The Wounded" which also featured Alaimo. This episode was meh. I thought Fenna was a boring character albeit one of the most beautiful guest stars on the show. Another bingewatch skipper.

omg I thought this was a good episode with a similar title from next season and got excited, then realized that it was this one. uff

I thought this episode was weak, but not bad. Oh, there will be bad episodes here and there in the future, but coming back to these “mid” episodes after years of rewatching the best of DS9, I find I don’t really mind them. I still appreciate the good bits of a weak episode and just hanging out with the crew.

Alex is right...the speed limit thing is cosmically stupid. I'd like to say its a running gag from that point forward...but its worse. It's just an embarrassing misstep. Even an irresponsible poisoning of the well that would only work against other writers going forward were it to be acknowledged.

Meh.

I profusely apologies for this and the next two episodes. Other than these three, DS9 S2 is in the range of good and entertaining to absolutely fabulous!

I liked seeing Jake and Sisko talking about Jake’s mom. The father son dynamic is very good. Jake (and Nog) improve any episode. I thought the episode was okay. I liked it better on rewatch than I’d remembered. I did love Richard Kiley in his role. A lesser actor could not have pulled it off he did. I think the themes you mentioned about loss would have I proved it. When you lose someone you feel like the world should stop and cry, you resent the sun for shining because the world should be grey. But no… for others it’s another day and life goes on.

Like Josh says, I liked Seteyik because he's aware that he's a raging egomaniac. There's a certain charm to that for me. I know; it's a hot take. Fenna was charming and beautiful. And...that's about all I have. I don't hate this episode. It's not a favorite, but I can watch it and be entertained.

It's not a good episode, but the ideas have merit. Roddenberry would not have liked a megalomaniac in his future, but they exist, and Richard Kiley was a great casting - top 5 voice actor, Tony Award for Man of La Mancha - plot would have benefitted from more geeking out from the crew over his many accomplishments, with one commenting on meeting him and how annoying he is, with the others saying it can't be that bad, then when they are all meeting him, just eye rolls at each other.

I have to agree with everyone else. This is simply a very boring episode. The plot is boring. I don't buy Sisko's whirlwind romance. In these early season episodes, I don't mind if the plots are weak if there is good character development. Most S2 episodes show the writers are really trying to give depth to the characters. But not this one. Worst of the season for me.

Dr. Stubbs 2.0 - the new and even worse version

I barely remember this episode. Still doesn’t do anything for me. C-

Alex - that ship you like is a Nebula class. There was another one in The Wounded, Maxwell’s renegade ship that was blowing up all the Cardassians

a dead star would have no planets with life and would not be a location starfleet would put a base here. It's really hard to get a sense of just how far away these planets are when your characters are readily zipping at speeds literally squaring from the speed limit that can't be broken over even reached. This is the ultimate in terrafarming... not that these planets will neccessarily be terraformed, but that a system could be given new life. But if you're anywhere near there, you better get away. That's why they talk about upgrading their engines, because the nerds in the audience realize you want to get out like the instant it happens like you were the Flash which they essentially are relative to the sun but you want to be REALLY Really sure so you want want to max out the engines to their higgest possible speed possibility in case something goes wrong. It's just a realistic precaution, and ironically even though I'm sure they weren't connected, the Terraformer is excatly the guy who would hear about the warp limit, get pissed off, and make extra extra sure his engines were capable of highest sustainabke "speeds" at the time. He is the exact kind of guy who would be motivated by that kind of restriction to insure he was without even asking being assured of absolute privilige in this matter when he just "asks starfleet", particularly O"Brien who is no longer a ranking officers but a top enlisted man and naturally inclined to be helpful. He can now say that "starfleet" of course okayed it if a beaurecratic move is made against him for not getting pre-approval after the fact which is probably how these things work in a huge org like the federation spanning an uniminagle amount of space and lives. Not claiming it was written that way, but it fits perfectly hence the charicterization lends to that interpretation being believable which is a sign of a well designed character.

I did like the writing and saw what they were going for. It just wasn't executed well. The thing is, the writer is still unsufferable, it works for him, of course, as a resolution to his problem that also frees her. That juxtaposition is supposed to be the cool moment. I feel like your sugesstion is a bit more sci fi cliche that would make the character seem less authentic. I think the characters were developed, and the idea of Sisko as The Dreamer... I feel like they are subtly developing Sisko in a way that is very contrary to the normal way you think of Characters being expanded. So the whole of that "romance" made more sense if you buy into it genuinely saying something about Sisko. Sisko is not Kirk or Picard. He is different in his own way. So maybe part of the dream was for Sisko a solution that satisified both parties. He realized he had been sharing a dream fanatasy and that is hard to act, because that's what it was. The tone needs to be less restrained I think if you want to do this kind of an episode, which also feels VERY T. O S. This situation minus the grief is the kind of situation that character would be put in. So it's an update on that story... but it's something Kirk and Sisko could share that would not fit Picard. The wrjting was good. It was something else, but the sense of "lifelessness"... it needs that T. O. S. "go for it zany energy". Or something to illustrate the undertones about dreams and dreamers and add more of that as text to ground the character and make that idea more clear instead of subtext that would be very chalengin to convey, especially with a character who has not been well developed roundly.

yeah, the speed thing was in case the star goes nova, definitely a situation that justifies breaking the protocol

probably been said but the one Alex liked is the Constellation class, the one docked at DS9 in this episode is a Nebula Class

Not a banger by any means, but I don't think its as bad as many make it out to be. Interesting new concept of a projecting telepath with unconcious manifestations like dreams she doesnt remember.

In the commanders defense she was a 10/10 baddie!

And you thought Dr. Stubbs was the most egotistical and annoying scientist you'd meet.

This was one of the episodes I'd never seen from the second season. I've seen everything from the fourth Season on, but the first through third are, to varying degrees missing episodes. Most of Season One was new to me. Much of Season Two will be new to me, and I'm sure that there are a few episodes of Season 3 I missed. (Though I'm not certain.) Anyway, this is an episode I do not regret having missed the first time through.

I feel bad for the crew of the Prometheus who were docked at basically Space Las Vegas but for some reason not allowed to leave the ship. Also where's the ship's doctor...Also where's it's Captain? The guy in the chair was like a junior lieutenant

I always took that speed limit thing was just applying to that specific region of space (that corridor of worn out space)

Well, it was an episode. Definitely a couple of fun bits mixed into a lot of boring. I'd probably rate it a D.

Yeah Josh Nailed it Lifeless

Not terrible, Not Great kinda bland episode

Fairly boring. Nothing cringe-worthy or offensive, so C- for me. A love story, in part, with no heart.

I remember that I liked this episode back in the 90s - but maybe it was only the actress ;) However, on rewatch today I enjoyed the small detailes like how anoyed the Chief was in the background, everthying Kira did, Odo starting to take notes and giving up after the first "I don't know". So the story was boring but the characters are great!

You are right with the uniforms. The TNG uniforms are supposed to be the 'ship unforms' and the DS9 uniforms the 'station uniforms'. At least at his point.

Another episode about which I have almost zero feelings either good or bad. I forgot it before. I’ll forget again.

Yeah this episode is a flatline.

You can't E-rase this episode from canon because it marks Sisko's moment to move on from his grief about his late wife and being ready to get in a new romantic relationship again. This is important for his character. So it has to be a D.

Other than the first few scenes, this episode is just boring. I don't buy for one second Sisko's infatuation with Fenna. The mystery aspect fell flat. And the terraforming B-plot was a nothing plot that didn't even involve any danger.

I'd give it an F for Fenna, or for Fuck this episode.

Deep Space Nine's "Work Laugh" episode.

Josh's Handwriting > The Episode

I'd say these are the 2 worst back to back episodes so far. counting previous tng episode and then this 1

Probably worst of the season. Though I agree with the one comment the actress is hot. I guess one of the downfalls of the 26 episode seasons is they have tight deadlines and sometimes they try to save a script with multiple writers trying to improve it. Time runs out and they say screw it we'll try better on the next one

How does Seyetik hold up against Stubbs for you guys?

Wow that was worse than I remembered

In my head canon professor Seyetik and Dr. Stubbs are best frenemies...

Seyetik "Commander, perhaps it's hard for you to understand how a woman who was once so deeply in love with me could now barely tolerate my presence." Sisko "It's not hard to understand at all professor. I've only known you for a day and I already want to kill myself" Also was Piersall really a bad, emotionless performance, or did the actor perfectly portray how little his character cared about Seyetik offing himself? I was conflicted going in if this ep was as bad as I remember, or if the next one was my least favourite of the season. The opening scene is good stuff, but I forgot how insufferable Seyetik was, how flat the performances are, and how cringeworthy the forced laughter at unfunny jokes was. Definitely the worst of S2. Since there's not much more to discuss on the ep itself, I'll cover a couple other things. The warp speed limit did make provisions for emergencies, which escaping a supernova would certainly qualify.......except for the fact warp 1 is plenty fast enough to escape a supernova. If they were monitoring from say the orbital distance of Earth(1 AU), then they would have 8 minutes to turn around and get out of there. The effects of a supernova can't spread faster than light, so even at warp 1, it would never catch up to them. Warp 5 is hundreds of times faster. 1 more stupid aspect of this episode. And since there was a whole comment thread below about you guys having questions about starfleet's deep space stations I'll address that. While starfleet isn't strictly military, the equivalent to the US military would be Starbase 218 or whatever would be the equivalent to military bases within US territory, while bases with the "Deep Space" designation refer to bases outside of federation territory, similar to a US military base in the Middle East or Europe or Asia. The Bajoran system is not federation territory, and DS9 is just their name for the station which was Terok Nor under the Cardassians and is now owned by the Bajorans. Since they pretty much invited Starfleet to run the station for them right after the Cardassians left(but as a deterrent against them coming back AND since the Bajorans have no experience running such a station), they probably also refer to it as DS9 for simplicity's sake. If the Circle had succeeded and somehow managed to fend off the Cardassians, they would no doubt give the station a Bajoran name. How many deep space stations exist is hard to say. One might expect there are only 9 since DS9 is a fairly new base, but not necessarily. I expect if starfleet either leaves one of these bases or the area joins the federation, it ceases to be Deep Space #. There might have been a Deep Space 2 at some point that was in a system that later joined the federation and it became starbase 12 or something. At that point the designation Deep Space 2 may be assigned to the next deep space station that's established. There may be many deep space stations beyond 9, and perhaps there was a previous base or bases that once bore the name DS9, but as starfleet either abandoned those positions for one reason or another, OR those systems joined the federation and they got a starbase designation, 9 was the lowest numerical Deep Space station designation available when this base was established. At least that's my theory as it seems unlikely that starfleet would ONLY establish 9 bases outside federation territory in 200+ years.

Josh seriously my immediate reaction was HOLY FUCKING PENMANSHIP - where did that come from?

The Nebula Class looks familiar to you because of Captain Maxwell's USS Phoenix in "The Wounded" and USS Sutherland, which Data commanded in "Redemption".

So this episode was originally written for bashir as more of a mystery story, but they wanted to humanize Sisko more so they made it a love story. I like the Bashir idea better. The producers said it didn't work because what they were going on depended on the gravitas of the terraformer and his bond to Sisko which the actor didn't summon. Unfortunately this episode starts a short midseason run of 3 mediocre episodes and one decent one. However, after that, the show takes off and remains solid till the end. I feel like this section is what people are thinking of when they say season 2 was only a bit of an improvement over season1.

I remember Siskos ghost girl. That’s all I know about this episode. I like the Prometheus sets. Not as memorable as The Enterprise D bridge. I always loved the reuse of the TMP bridge in early TNG the Stargazer set, the Hathaway.. whatever other old ship bridge the needed back then?

The reason to upgrade the ships engines to go faster was "in case" the terraforming failed and they needed to get out of the area fast (Dax states this). When Picard discusses the speed limit in Force of Nature, he mentions that they can bypass in emergency circumstances. While both of these episodes aired back to back, they could have been written further apart, etc, so I am only stating what we can infer on screen, as behind the scenes, yes, they may not have known at all about the speed limit.

I was wondering if anyone else was going to bring up the Richard Kiley part as the Nazi in Night Gallery. In general he's a decent actor, but I suspect his stage performances ( like Don Quixote in the musical Man of la Mancha) are more highly regarded than his film work...he does come across as highly theatrical.

Richard Kiley also played the tour guide voice in the cars in Jurassic Park. Hammond spared no expense getting him!

The ship is the same model as the one Data commanded in Redemption part 2, that’s what Alex was remembering

We just gotta get through these season two dregs.

This is only the second time I’ve watched this episode. Most aren’t as bad as I remember. This one was

Yeah I was not looking forward to you guys reacting to this. It’s such a let down after “necessary evil”. Even the acting was kinda weird/bad.

It says a lot about the poor writing that when Sayatek sacrifices himself, everyone's just like... "Okay.."

All other comments about this episode are rendered null and void after "I thought Sisko was Fenna get laid".

Good job Josh remembering all the Terraforming lore. The star igniting kind of reminded me of the Genesis wave. Also this is what they were trying to do in Half a Life.

Nebula class is the ship flavor your are looking for. Galaxy saucer, nacelles blow, and a removable pod depending on mission requirements on the top.

Not a great week for Trek reactions with this and Force of Nature. This episodes biggest issue is it’s just boring and flat. Theres not enough here to invest in a romance, the performances are a bit all over the place too.

Nidels expressions during the dinner scene is mine watching the episode.

I'll defend Avery Brooks acting in this, he is playing the character as written on the page. Blame the writers. The writing in this episode still feels like an early draft. There was a good episode in here somewhere, too many cooks no doubt. I'll add it reminds me of early attempts to give Picard a romantic interest. This is Sisko's captain's holiday.

They are so far into star trek and still call starfleet ships Enterprises, don't know what nacelles are, don't know suns are stars. Their inability to learn lore is charming

Man, just when you think this franchise has figured out how to send a shuttle into a star *without* a live person on board...

I knew you guys were NOT going to like this episode. It's not Move Along Home bad, but its pretty boring.

I guess the scientific community has eventually embraced the use of protomatter after (and despite) the events of Star Trek III?

Not a great episode by any stretch but I don't think it's quite an E, as there are redeeming little moments. But it's dull AF in the overall scheme of DS9. I really liked Alex's idea of the professor giving up his career and living on her planet to save his wife as a more earned ending. But then he mentioned that the dead star (surrounded by dead planets) would affect life somehow and lost me lol. Wolf 319 - Never Forget.

I didn't think it was awful, as I was entertained. It's hard to feel bad about an episode that I had no urge to pause or stop and not return to. No, it wasn't great. But oh well. They can't all be, and I did enjoy the acting of the regular cast. Not so much the acting of the guests, except for the final scene of Seyetik's which I thought was done well.

Yes this episode is pretty dull. The only thing that interesting was Richard Kylie and Sally Richardson. I already mentioned Kylie, Richardson played Allison Blake on Eureka and did the voice of Elisa Maza in Gargoyles. Thing is I didn't know about Richardson till another patron mentioned it.

Unfortunately, the news of the new warp speed limit can only travel at warp 5 so they didn't hear about it yet.

This feels like a leftover generic sci-fi plot to me.

My condolences you had to sit through this shit.

Congrats guys; you've officially survived the worst episode of season 2. (some people will fight me on this and name another episode still to come; but I disagree, because although that one is terrible, it at least manages to be terrible in a mildly entertaining way; whereas this one is terrible in a 'look at your watch impatiently' kinda way) I won't say any more, although since you guys have normally watched a few ahead of the ones you've posted, I'm pretty sure you know which one I'm talking about. Edit: actually I just decided this might be one of the bottom 5 episodes of DS9. Move along home is more entertaining than this shit.