UNCUT - Dark Page (TNG S7E7) | Star Trek Journey 290

The fact that you say "Jumanji" when talking about young Kirsten Dunst makes me think you guys have not seen "Interview with the Vampire." Boys you gotta get on that!

Damm this Onion chopping Ninjas again!

Another one that's very different at age 36 than my first time at age 6

I am a 45 year old man and my eyes leaked for that entire trauma scene. What kind of stone Alex is made of I have no idea.

I liked her ODO ep better

Because I was watching Babylon 5 concurrent with your Next Generation/Deep Space 9 viewing, I was amazed at all the Star Trek crossovers that occurred at this time, from writers to actors including someone from this episode... No spoilers, but it was SO GOOD.

Gene had this really bizarre off the wall idea that humanity would have evolved beyond grief by the 23rd century

Lwaxana is the only guest star who's allowed to steal an episode from the main cast because Majel is Star Trek royalty

I am a Major Lwaxana Hater, and this episode still gets me.

Every Lwaxana episode rewatch when she calls Deanna "little one" I get the emotions from this episode.

If he weren’t too old, I’d swear that was Norman Large playing Matt Gaetz.

For me this episode gets better on every watch, sorry Josh if you are anything like me a re-watch won't prevent the tears. This has gone upto S from me. Great performances! The only extra thing i'd have liked is a scene at the end with Deanna and Will while she processed her new grief. In Patreon takes you discussed episodes Gene wouldn't have liked, remember he was away when they filmed The Trouble With Tribbles, and annoyed when he found out, and that's one of my TOS favourites.

In terms of DS9 being able to pick up the slack when TNG ends....you don't have anything to worry about. I also believe you will both like Voyager, even if it frustrates you in certain respects. I got the impression from 'Dark Page' that Majel may not have been well and was (to an extent) given reduced screen time. It's really a Sirtis episode.

Watched yesterday but too tired to comment till now. I did remember this being a sad, competently told story, even if I agree Barrett's performance wasn't Oscar worthy or anything. Still, it did end up being better than I remembered. I've been a Lwaxana defender for years, and it's eps like this that are the reason why. Yes, she could be irritating early on, but bit by bit over the years we are shown that it's just a mask for all the pain she carries. She lost her daughter, and blames herself for it, she lost her husband, she had to watch Timicin's own family guilt trip him into killing himself, she's getting older and lonelier with each passing year, wondering if Deanna will start a family of her own. She feels the unrelenting march of time, wondering if there are any more good memories to be made, or if she's just going to be left with the good and bad memories fighting for centre stage in her mind. I think her attitude early on was partly flirting driven by that Betazoid libido, but also a way to avoid having to face the pain she carries. As we move through the series, more and more she realizes that approach doesn't solve anything, and she starts to open up, like she did with Odo. I still wouldn't give this an S, but it's a solid A and it did get me pretty emotional at the end. You definitely helped me appreciate this episode even more.

I prefer the heavier Lwaxanna episodes to the silly ones.

I think on rewatch, the mystery becomes so unimportant, because the episode becomes about Lwaxana dealing with her grief. you see her struggling with and denying it, and then having to finally face it. This might be a rare episode that MORE impactful the second time. Course, since my own father died, I blubber at stuff like this all the time now.

Awktopus definitely summed it up perfectly. I was in tears in this rewatch, and while it's very strong, it's not perfect. But still just a really great episode of TNG and one I always look forward to seeing again.

I think what Majel was saying about Gene and the episode is that in Star Trek's time, everything is so advanced that they would have cures for the Trauma Mrs. Troi had.

This is the first time I've watched this since a kid, and since before my little brother passed away in a drowning accident. I wasn't thinking about it or intentionally avoiding it. Watching this time with you guys it hit me so much. I cried like a baby

Lwaxana has caught some crap from fans before, and I get it. As much as we love Majel, Lwaxana can be a bit much for some. But personally, after watching this episode, I give her a break for all the prior episodes. Knowing the trauma she went through with her daughter and husband, it makes me think that maybe her personality we know is a bit of a facade to compensate for the pain. But no matter what, this is my favorite Lwaxana episode and I’m glad you finally got to see it.

This episode is one that I saw when I was about 9 or 10, and I remember sobbing at the end, it's a solid episode. Love Majel Barrett and Marina Sirtis.

They Love Trauma and crying, they'll love a certain Nu Trek series

I erased this episode from my memory. Thank you for forcing me to watch it again.

another one thats not one of my favs kinda slog

I think at the end when Deanna says, "Tell me more about her..." she may in part be in counselor mode, but I think it's because she genuinely wants to learn about the sister she never knew.

Even though this is a mystery story, I actually enjoyed it more on rewatching it. Sure, I know how it turns out, but it also makes me aware of all the little hints and foreshadowing that are written in, which adds greater emotional depth to the ending. At least for me.

For me it definitely holds up on rewatch. It wrecks me far earlier in the ep knowing the terrible tragedy ahead. And still wrecks me harder in the end.

1:11:55 Well, they were trying to poke that into the audience by Maques appearing in Sick Bay in the dark.

As soon as I saw the wolf I just had a fan casting idea. Imagine a 90s live action of Baldur's Gate 3 and Marina Sirtis playing Shadowheart.

This episode is a tie with “Half a Life” as the best Lwaxana Troi episode in my opinion.

Twentysomething me was bored to death. Times change and so did I . And my appreciation for this episode.

The actor playing Maques previously portrayed Proconsul Neral in “Unification Pt. 2”.

Deanna's dad being on the Epstein client list is diabolical

I know this episode was conceived way after the fact, but if you look at how Lwaxana is -- her mannerisms, trying to marry off Deanna to ensure she's protected and not along -- even her own pursuit of another man, her overbearing nature -- a lot of that makes sense in the context of a parent who lost a young child. I think it's my own personal head cannon, that Lwaxana before Kestra died may have been a very different person, and that losing Kestra, and then losing her husband Ian, may have resulted in the Lwaxana we see throughout the series -- loud, boisterous, but also at times with a hint of melancholy that until now wasn't fully explained.

7:55 "When I stroke the beard thusly, does it...?" LOL

Majel Barrett made this. I wish she’d had more to do when she played Nurse Chapel. She can *act*.

This was a skip for me when I was a kid because it was boring. Now I want to skip because it wrecks me as a parent.

Dark Page and The Offspring are two episodes that are too emotionally heavy for me to watch as a parent. They figured Deanna out too late in the series IMO, but I'm glad they did!

I don't think that Dark Page gets the recognition it deserves when great episodes of Star Trek are discussed.

Great reaction. It got some tears from me at the end.

Fans and critics find this episode meh, but I liked it...touching way of presenting the death of a child- especially since Deanna's father has also passed away so Lwaxanna is the only one with the memories....

It's funny, episodes that I've sort of avoided since I was a kid because I didn't like them then are getting a new life because of reactors and being older they get a whole new dimension. I've always had no issue with Lwaxana Troi episodes except for the one where they end up in the mud bath to the end I cannot rewatch that episode!

I think your channel might be my best monthly subscription. I remembered "Dark Page" as being kind of a crap episode, but you forced me to take another look, which is no mean feat after 30+ years. Being here feels like I'm getting to watch TNG/DS9 for the first time again, and I thank you for that.

This is one of those episodes that's great; but also heavy and depressing enough that (like Chain of Command) I don't think I've ever rewatched it since the first time when I was a kid; until now.

so being pedantic- you mean "malevolent" not "malignant." "Malignant" refers to a condition, generally medical, that will spread untill its fatal. "Malevolent" means "with harmful intentions"

The thing about Roddenberry was over the years, he bought into the hardcore trek fan press about him, that he was this utopian visionary, and that definitely influence him by the time of TNG, whereas if you read the star trek bible for TOS, that wasn't him at all, he was primarily excited about the untapped possibilities of sci fi as a tv genre and had definite ideas about what would make "good" sci fi as opposed to the cheesy sci fi that had mostly been the standard. By the time of TNG, he didn't want flawed humans, he had this idea that humanity had evolved past so much of human weakness, like his notorious "no interpersonal conflcit within the cast" rule that hamnstrung the early TNG writers. You are absolutely correct that this wasn't the way he was in the TOS days. But its also that though he was a legend for star trek, he never really succeeded with anything else. and by the time of TNG he had really bought into some very particular ideas that he was what had made trek loved because of its visionary nature (because many hardcore trekkies told him this) and he wanted the "next generation" to be even more evolved- but he forgot the rules he set out for TOS that made it so successful. That first and foremost, it had to be good tv. By the time of TNG's start, part of this was likely that he was already suffering from cognitive decline, and part of it was this specific lawyer who convinced gene he needed him and that "they" were going to take star trek away from him if he didnt maintain control, and a lot of those rules were adamantly enforced by that guy, who peope really hated and who saw him as making gene dependent on him and sort of encouraging him that he was this visionary genius and he shouldnt yield on anything. In fact the early showrunners were getting notes from HIM on script issues that violated gene's vision allegedly, not gene himself. So part of it was this complex thing where a scumbag lawyer was probably taking advanatage of a man who was on the decline and reinforcing his grandiosity and paranoia. Which fedback into strengthening Gene's beliefs. At any rate, it's probably true that by the time of TNG, Gene would NOT want an episode about someone repressing memories, and also would n ot have liked a show that wasn't by TOS standards conventional science fiction

Norman Large played a Romulan in Unification, a Viterian in Duet, and appears on info graphics in the background as a wanted Romulan war criminal Neral in several DS9 episodes

they used split screen for the wolf. Story went through several iterations of a telepathic rescue before landing on mrs troi and deanna

no, this would be 1994.

Data was breifly in the opening scene with Geordi

More Season 8 Troi's secret agent past catches up with her. It's clear to the rest of the crew that Geordi & Data are hiding a panda in their quarters. Beverly solves a medical mystery that stains her mentor's legacy. Wes and his pals are caught “Worfing"- huffing Worf's laundry to get high. Emotional awareness threatens the collective after the Borg assimilate Troi. Geordi & Data's elaborate musical numbers upset Worf. Worf is framed for the murder of a depraved Klingon poet. Data & Geordi panic after trapping a hornet under a cup. A transporter error combines an away team into a single man named Picariketroi LaCrusher. Another Captain Picard Day completely ruined. Spock visits the Enterprise to give Data a special gift. Geordi's miffed that Spock never remembers who he is, gets real pouty about it. The Enterprise is flung into the Delta Quadrant by an alien called the Caretaker. Geordi soups up the warp core and they're home by dinner Riker protects a class of alien school kids and their attractive teacher during a lava storm. A flock of tiny, flightless birds hunt Wesley. A deligation of alien hummingbirds secretly plan to drink Wesley. It's a challenge, but Riker still manages to hook up with one. The crew is flung back to Earth circa 2010: a post-ozone-layer hellscape. They use advanced technology to disguise themselves with hats. Q hosts a temporal Q reunion on the Enterprise, invites all his past selves. Worf vows to crush whoever started the "Worf has a tail" rumor. Beverly clashes with aliens who own the copyright to their slaves' DNA. Worf is starting to actually believe he has a girlfriend in Canada. Beverly defends a sentient virus. Instead of dumping his alien girlfriend, Wes is hoping her lifecycle turns her into a tree or something. Picard must rescue solar miners trapped on a plasma rig. Worf ruins every movie by yelling who he thinks is "dishonorable" at the screen. Trapped in a holo-telenovella about the crew, Riker is triumphant despite his limited Spanish. Geordi y Data venden el warp core en error. Picard officiates a dangerous Vulcan divorce. Wes drinks a "suicide", which is everything the replicator can make blended into one drink. An alien boy pretends Data is his science fair project to hide him from military forces. Riker's sonic shower is set to "silky jazz" Wes rebuilds the Genesis Device for fun, with dire consequences. Riker sees a spider in his shower, immediately detaches the saucer section. Picard discovers a map inside his favorite dulcimer. Worf experimented with being dishonorable in college, but swears he never enjoyed it. Menacing professors from a university planet question Picard's dedication to science. Barclay gets his foot stuck in a pumpkin. More Season 8 to come!

Super impressed that you noticed the Betazoid eyes on "Hedril" in Lwaxana's mind right away. I never noticed that before but it's kinda a big clue. Glad they put in that detail during production.

Always loved this one. I got teary this time around too. On another note, I thought Melora was dull when I first watched it years ago. The rewatch with you guys had me loving it. I think there are stories that get better the older you are. Melora was one.

The way it’s written it’s kinda patriarchal like Lwaxanna was busy with Deana and the dad just couldn’t be bothered to parent the other one. 😑 He’s a man.. not his job.. That’d be dark.. Deana’s father who she idolized was not a great dad?

Using trauma as character development isn't always bad, but there definitely is that weird sexist corner of fiction where a woman character is defined by, or becomes a stronger person after dealing with sexual assault. While it's true, overcoming things can make you stronger, there's an uncomfortably long list of how many stories use that theme for woman characters.

I figure that early on in TNG Gene was really trying to make sure he kept control as best he could, because what I know of Trek history, during the movie era he was struggling to maintain control but the executives kind of saw him as a nuisance they didn't want to deal with. And someone who they didn't think they should have had to deal with.

Great episode.

I think it's strongly implied that she blocked out her conscious memories of Kestra entirely. For example, when they're looking at the photo at the end Deanna says "Mr. Homn kept this for you in case you ever wanted to remember her again." Psychologically Betazoids are different from humans, it's conceivable she could very well have done so in a way humans couldn't. On some level I'm sure she knew about Kestra, but she unconsciously steered herself away from those compartmentalized memories, much like she did when Deanna entered her mind. Maybe she didn't even block it out entirely until 7 more years had passed, when her husband died (the trauma of the additional loss acting as a catalyst for her sealing away that part of her psyche for good) but she at the very least never talked about Kestra openly while Deanna was growing up. Who knows?

In some ways this one’s a lot like Phantasms. But more of a physic thing then dreams

Normal Large played the Romulan working with Sela in Unification part 2. The jaw gives him away.

I'm going to need a few minutes to collect myself.

When I was 16 I was so bored by this episode. No bridge scenes. No spaceship scenes, not Star Trek. Dull. As a man in my 40s with a child I’m sat here crying my eyes out. I was so ready to dismiss this one. Loving rewatching these episodes again. 👌🖖

Nowhere else can we find a thoughtful and accurate comparison between Laxwanna Troi and professional wrestling.

This episode freaked me out as a kid because something similar had happened in my family before. My paternal grandparents had a kid who died when he was around 6 years old. Like Kestra here, it was by drowning. This was the 1940s, so there weren't any lifeguards at the public pool. I think it was up to parents to watch their own kids, and somehow, no one was watching him, and he died. My uncle was a baby, and my dad and younger siblings had yet to be born, so they had no memory of this. Shortly after, my grandparents moved across the state because people were spreading rumors that they did it on purpose, etc. Because people are people. After this, they had the rest of the family, who were completely unaware of this kid. There were no photos of him, no documents, and his name was not allowed to be said out loud. Just his gravestone, back where they used to live. These were the wishes of my grandfather, who came back from the war changed and almost certainly suffering from unrecognized PTSD. It was only after their divorce that my father and his siblings learned the truth from my grandmother. My dad had many memories of her just sitting in her room crying and never telling anyone the reasons why. Upon learning the truth, he was moved enough that he ended up naming his first kid, Douglas after the brother he never met. I learned about it when I was very young because my parents didn't keep secrets like that, and they wanted us to know how we all got our names. Apparently, it haunted my grandmother until the day she died. In her will were several mentions of the boy. "Forgive me, Dougie, Mommy still loves you" always stuck with me. Thanks for reading. Was way too long and heavy for a Patron take.

The Laxwanna hate has always baffled me. So many people just write her episodes off as filler waste. Think of the time though. Here is a woman in her 60s with a sex drive and the camera doesn't shy away from her. Sure it was a little repetitive after a while but starting with Half a Life they started to write her with real depth. Her DS9 appearance is one of my favorites and this episode never fails to evoke some tears from me.

Did you watch the deleted scenes for this episode? If you haven't please do. I think it will be worth your time.

I thought you guys would like this one. Underrated episode.

I ended up liking this more than previously, but I said I didn't want to come away with new insights and enjoyment! In all seriousness, I'm glad you guys liked it. It just doesn't click for me though it's great to see marina and Majel get something more serious to do, though Majel's performance in the climax isn't very good imo. I'd probably like this a lot more if it was earlier in the series.

Yep, this one gets me every time. Great performances from Majel and Marina in the last couple scenes.

this episode always brings me to tears. they spent the majority of the series reinforcing Lwaxana being over protective and over involved in Diana's life and now bringing into focus why that is, just hits so hard for me. will always love this episode.

On the up side we only have to wait less than 1 season for Voyager once TNG ends.

Also - for some reason someone is always chopping onions near me when this is on.

I’m always a big defender of this one. It’s not perfect but I love the story it is trying to tell. And the Deanna lore it brings. Marina Sirtis is really good and it’s one of the best outings for Lwxanna, up there maybe with Half a Life. Also love the score.