UNCUT - Melora (DS9 S2E6) | Star Trek Journey 289
Comments (154)
what exactly is bad about Bashir in this episode? he's written to be extremely understanding here lol
DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version SCORE Bashir gets an official bed poster The sex score board Chief 1 Keiko 1 Quark 1 Odo 1 Kira 1 Bashir 1 +1new GUEST: blond hot sciency chick +1 new DETAILS: He did it. Throw 1000 fishing lines and you are bound to snag something. By the way sciency hottie could do way better like an older but sexier prof.
I'm another that actually likes this episode. I've never not enjoyed it, and it has always seemed important for fleshing out Bashir's character and giving him more substance than he had previously. The guest actress does a very good job, and I enjoy the unexpected merger of the storylines at the end. I wonder how many of those who dislike this episode are fans of DS9 more for the more expansive plots than this sort of modest standalone episode. Personally, I love both, and especially under Piller's tenure as head writer/showrunner, the standard for solid, modest, standalone episodes was clearly set on TNG, and through these first seasons of DS9.
Wow. This is an episode I don't really like, and I usually skip it in rewatches. I was so happy to hear that you two liked it. I really enjoyed hearing a different take on it. Thanks!
This is one of those episode I tend to skip whenever I binge DS9. It doesn't necessarily stick out like other episodes in the first two seasons such as "Progress", "The Forsaken" or "Necessary Evil". It definitely had one of the best dynamics between Quark and Odo. And to feature the restaurant on the Promenade with the singing klingon chef was certainly a treat!
For me the best Dr. Bashir Episode yet. (by far)
I quite like the episode. It's nothing special and far from the best DS9 has to offer, but it's a good little story nonetheless. And I don't agree with takes in the comment that we are supposed to love Melora even if she is unlikable, just because she has a disability. On the contrary! The whole point of her character development is that she becomes less defensive and rude, and opens up to others. The episode is about learning about each other viewpoint on the situation, and to grow from that experience. The crew had to realise that some of their well-meaning assumptions were unwelcome. Melora had to learn that not everything was intended as an attack against her. The episode did that very well for both sides, and highlighted the difficulties of situations like that. I think it did it rather well, but it seems to make people uncomfortable. At any rate, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. 🙂
I really don't know what the fuck everyone's problem is with this episode. I liked it well enough when I watched the first time but you guys made me love it even more.
I’m really confused with the hate on this episode. It’s one of the few season 2 episodes I remember (I didn’t watch a lot) but even as a kid I liked this one. I found the exploration of someone dealing with a high gravity environment really fascinating, it’s not really a disability thing but a genuine insight into how aliens in this universe would react to each others’ environments. Melora is a great character and the acting from everyone is 😘👌
Because it was proto-woke, with the same obnoxious components that would later get ramped up to 11. The allegory was too over the top, our pov character is a Mary Sue who speaks native Klingon and can do it all on her own, and she is written to save the day with the 'disability' reimagined as a strength. Everyone would have loved an exploration of a low gravity species adapting to a 'high' gravity environment. But the disability angle was shoe horned in, purposefully, because the whole point was to examine disability and paint it as 'differently abled' instead of dis-abled, and the whole high/low gravity thing was just a tacked on excuse to preach the sermon they wanted to preach. Star Trek is at it's worst when it's trying to be a Sunday sermon and at it's best when it examines something you otherwise can't in the real world and gives all sides their due leaving the issues unresolved and the viewer to draw their own conclusions.
Guys, it warms my heart that you’re referring to The Expanse to explain the science of evolving in low gravity to explain the plot of a Trek episode
I hate it when you hate an episode that everyone loves. But when you love a hated episode, I really don't mind.
Actually, always thought it was a bit boring, but I have seen the first 4 seasons of DS9 out of order. Because of that I didn't fully realize that Bashir, up to this point, had basically zero character development. This episode and "Cardassians" (to an extend) do a lot to make up for that, and that's what makes me value this episode a bit more on repeat.
I'm late. Wanted to comment on the rank stuff you brought up. Melora is an Ensign, but remember, she is in the sciences division, she is not command staff. First off, Officers are usually at a rank for a specific job if they are not in the general command staff of a vessel or station. Remember, an Ensign is still ranked above every enlisted person in Star Fleet. Chief Petty Officer Miles O'Brien still has to call her Sir. Melora is an Ensign because her job requires her to be an Ensign (Probably leading small science teams of subordinate Ensigns, and Enlisted personnel). If she were to receive a promotion, it would also change the scope of her work. Probably to running an entire Science Division on a Starship or other posting similar to Commander Darren (But probably not on a Galaxy Class Starship, somewhere smaller where a Lieutenant could do the job). Bashir is a Lieutenant because he is the Chief Medical Officer for the entire station. He has to have rank over every Nurse (Which would generally be an Officer position), Paramedic, Scribe (Both likely filled by trained enlisted personnel), and even other Doctors on board the station. He needs rank over those other positions to do his job, even though he is literally straight out of the Academy. Things get fuzzier on the Command track. If an Ensign was given command of a Starship, they would be the ship's Captain, no matter their actual pip rank, and anyone onboard, no matter their rank, would be subject to their orders, and only a Flag Officer, or an non-flag officer specifically given a supervisory role could give them orders. Even then, when it comes to ship operations and management, Captain's word is law. If Captain Picard were to come aboard a ship that was captained by an Ensign, the Ensign Captain's orders still maintain priority. We see this directly in the Redemption arc in TNG. Data directly defies Picard's order as Task Force leader to expose the Romulans, and very quickly reminds his subordinate that the Sutherland was his ship to command.
And there's also that fact that though these series tend to follow along with some real-world military protocol, they can change things up a little for the sake of fiction. And they even break their own rules sometimes. Or probably more simply, some writers care less about "military protocol" than others. The non-commissioned officer stuff became a little more confusing with the Chief on DS9 because he's in a position (essentially Chief Engineer) that has been an officer rank in every other version of Trek.
NO SPOILERS... I just caught a Season 6 episode of the show today and it made me realize that you guys could never ever predict where this series will end up. Will be fun to watch along.
Lol, I forgot to watch this reaction.
Ensigns can definitely stay ensign for a while.
It's hard to be explain why I don't like an episode and keep it brief enough to get read. It's even harder if I disagree with the crowd or you guys. What I can say, with the disability of knowing what's to come, this feels like an episode from a different series, it's predictable, (bad) corny, and I don't think there's much memorable dialogue. It doesn't feel like DS9. Having said that, I like when you guys like an episode I don't like. This era is peak Trek, It's not like this episode is garbage. 99% of the episodes will have something redeeming about them. When we disagree we learn and get better understanding of this show we love so much.
Not one of the all time great episodes for me but I definitely think it is a lot better than it's reputation warrants. It's a nice episode from the cozy days of DS9
Great reaction! I always liked this one, but maybe just because I love Bashir and this is one of the first times we really get to see a lot of him. Never understood the hate it gets.
I haven’t seen the scoreboard yet for DS9 but add one for Bashir…
The Klingon chef is great.
Not a bad episode, but not one of my favorites. Glad you both enjoyed it so much.
Hope this helps: The Original Series is set in 2266-69 The Animated Series is set in 2269-70 The Original Crew films are set over the years between 2270 and 2293. The Next Generation is set in 2364-2370. Deep Space 9 is set in 2369-2375.
When I first saw this episode (back when it first aired), I didn't like it. Every time I've watched it since, I didn't like it. Last time was about 10 years ago. Then I started working with people with disabilities as a career change, and rewatching it with you guys I realized I loved it. I'd always found Melora's personality to be unpleasant, and her final choice to be incomprehensible. Now, having worked with a variety of people with a variety of disabilities, I get it. Thank you for giving me a chance to re-assess this episode! B+
One element I liked about this episode was that it's pretty rare they made an alien species physically "inferior" to humans. Whether it's sci-fi or fantasy, humans always tend to be depicted as either equal or lesser in strength to other species. So it's nice to see humans as the stronger ones for once. Not gonna lie though, that and the low-grav scene in her quarters are pretty much all I remembered about this episode beforehand lol
For the record, I still hate this guest character and still hate this story. Hahahaha. I didn't go into detail because I really don't see the point. The character is the stereotypical Handicapable character from 90s tv. She's a miserable Karen. We are all supposed to love her because of her situation. I don't need to be preached at by mediocre tv writers.
I agree with you. I could go on and on about this episode as well, but I don't feel preached at. My problem with this episode is like you said, we're all supposed to love her JUST because of her situation. We're supposed to let her off the hook and excuse her for her behavior when we wouldn't do that if she didn't have a disability. Guess what? That's giving her special treatment. The very thing she claims to not want. She also demands special treatment by demanding to do a mission alone when it's standard procedure to never let ANYBODY do that for safety reasons. And again, we're supposed to act like this is fine JUST because she has a disability. "Oh, take pity on her. Throw the poor girl a bone. Let her do something stupid and dangerous because it will make her feel better" That kind of attitude is actually highly disrespectful and ableist, yet lots of people still glorify it because they don't get it. It's far more respectful to hold disabled people to the same standards as everyone else, because they ARE the same as everyone else, and call them out when they cross the line just like we would do for anyone else. Clifford the Big Red Dog did a better job of handling this topic.
Just getting around to this now, and when I saw it was almost 90 minutes thought, wow, they *really* hated it. Never even occurred to me it would reach B level with you, let alone S. Now I’m excited to rewatch it! Also, one big like-to-hate gap with the audience you didn’t mention is A Private Little War.
Guys, on your last point, I think it is great when you disagree with the audience, either way. I like to be challenged on my thoughts on an Episode, either way, either you liking it and us not caring for it, or vice versa, as it means I have to consider WHY I reacted to an episode. Personally, has been some time since I rewatched this episode, and this comes across as a "very Special Episode", about people with disabilities, how they are to be treated and to act around them. After rewatching it with you, I think my stance on it has softened a bit. But thank you for allowing us vicariously experience watching these shows for the first time again, it is hard to experience the excitement and joy of watching Trek again for the first time, and watching someone else do so is probably the only way.
I watch these guys because they actually give me a second chance at a first impression and let me watch Star Trek for the first time all over again. I've had my opinions changed on ST3, ST5, a whole host of episodes, and I've deconstructed ST6 for the first time in my life
One of my favorites of s2. It was an episode that didn’t bang you over the head with what it was trying to say about the handicapped
Trying to keep comments short so they get read, but also trying to elaborate more on why I like it or dislike is difficult at times. I could write paragraphs on probably 2 dozen DS9 episodes lol
Fair but fwiw being a bit longer when you’re explaining why you don’t like something is probably less likely to get you deterred from being read… unless it’s like… really long
I was tipped off early about you guys gave this an S. I still didn't believe it until i saw the white board. On a different subject, that dude's nose/mouth bridge thing makes no practical sense and looks horrible. I feel the makeup department just phoned that one in last minute.
It seemed like an unlikely anatomical adaptation. You notice they never showed the guy drink from the glass that Quark serves to him. Although... maybe it detaches at the bottom and he can use it as a straw, sort of like an elephant's trunk?
On timeline questions: TOS takes place in the 2260s, basically exactly 300 years in the future from the air date. TNG starts in the mid 2360s, basically exactly 100 years after the start of TOS. From there, so far it's following the rule that 1 year in air-date time is 1 year in the show. So in TNG season 7 / DS9 season 2, we're in the early 2370s.
End of TNG / start of Voyager is 2371
I remembered very little about this episode other than the most basic plot (character with a disability of sorts). I really enjoyed it on this watch.
You were curious about the term "habitat ring", so here's some technical info about the station and its terminology. In the exterior shots of the station, you can see there's a bulky center section, with two rings around it, and vertical sections attached to the outer ring. The central section doesn't have a special name as far as I know, but that's where all the major locations are. Ops, the Infirmary, Odo's security office, and the Promenade with its various shops like Quark's bar and Garak's tailoring business. The first ring out from the central section is the "habitat ring", where everyone's quarters are. The outer ring is the "docking ring", and the vertical sections attached to it are the "docking pylons". As you might guess, these areas are where ships visiting the station will dock with it. And I think the space between docking ports are where the various cargo bays are.
I think actually the outer ring is the habitat ring where quarters are. It has pylons for ship docking. The middle ring is where there are cargo bays and where smaller ships dock. If you look at the outer ring, it has windows, the interior ring does not
I have to admit, the episode is better than I remembered. As you said, it's the first really solid outing of Bashir, has funny moments with Quark and Odo, and the Klingon chef is fun as well. Dax is utilized quite well too. But Melora herself just makes my blood boil, I can't stand her at all. The way she behaves just really grinds my gears and even though I get where it is coming from, it just drags down the whole episode. If the A-plot had featured a likeable guest character and instead focused more on the ethical issue of having a relationship with a patient, perhaps with Bashir being so excited by his newly invented treatment that he unintentionally pushes Melora to go through with it, I might have been able to give the episode a better grade. But as it is, I cannot rank this better than a C.
One might observe that the amount of people who seemingly dislike this episode and cannot provide a reason as to why, alludes to a fundamental truth that we as a society are still dealing with.....
I think you're looking way too deeply at this. Sometimes people don't like an episode because it's just a bad episode. Do you really need me to go into extreme detail as to why I disliked it? Do you want paragraphs? I could do that. But what does it really resolve? If you like Space Karen and her toxic behavior, then cool. I do not. It can be that simple and we can agree to disagree. :P
I won't say much, but if you keep watching all of Star trek before the paramount crap, then questions get answered! Also, I did like this episode. I do think, a lot of people re-watching star trek with you, they remember episodes they saw when they were younger and... things hit differently when you have a few more years under your belt. (Not saying that people are wrong cause they are inexperienced, just... I can see how things can be very different when you're watching something in your teens, then 10, 20, even 30 years later.) Also, given the series and what it becomes I see why some might dismiss this episode, even if it's really... sweet.
Wow, so great to see you love this one. I can relate to a lot of what Melora's goes through and that line in the beginning where she talks about how she's not going to allow any condition to stop her from living her dream means so much to me. Lots of great moments and and loved watching you guys appreciate the writing, acting, directing. This one is just a C for me though. Really hard to be objective when I know the rest of the show. But your reaction made me wonder about a lot of upcoming episodes I never considered you would love. Yes! Someone else noticed her amazing teeth! :)
I missed the Patreon takes timing to post about this episode, but I like this one. Charismatic Bashir, Wise Dax, Odo and Quark get some fun scenes, Klingon Chef, guest actress does a good job, what's not to enjoy? I like the episode I would guess most people don't see it as a classic "Trek" type episode.
It was totally fine episode. It is nice episode for doctor.
You guys did it again, you made me like an episode I already enjoyed even more than I did initially, just like Lessons (and a couple others I can't recall off the top of my head). I love that feeling! As if I don't already love this Franchise enough lmao. Favorite fun moment of this episode though is hands down Odo's slow smiling turn at hearing of Quarks impending doom, hahahaha
An S for Melora? Ok I did NOT see that coming 😂
I love how happy this episode made them. It made me take a closer look at it. I think I didn’t connect well with Melora in my past watches because I had it drilled into me as a kid that I wasn’t allowed to be sharp with anyone (to my own detriment really - folks teach your kids to stick up for themselves!), no matter what, and that was the first thing I noticed about her. Being a good bit older now, I can see positives in it and how much confidence and courage it takes to speak so directly. That said, the romantic connection still bothers me. It’s too sudden and even if he says she isn’t his patient - he is conducting research using her as a test subject. Was Bashir going to disclose their relationship in his paper when he writes it all up? She’s going through life changing procedures *alone* and the person doing them sees her in a sexual and romantic light. That’s not ok. It’s not pushing me into to the eww creepy zone, but I kind of want to shake Bashir for not knowing better.
I've always had it in the back of my head that I liked this episode, but I first saw it when I was 16, and Bashir's talk with Melora about not being so belligerent made me go O___O "Am I into Bashir??? That was kinda hot"
I really like this episode because.... well have you seen pictures of the actress who plays Melora, Daphne Ashbrook? But seriously, I also think its a great episode addressing mobility needs. I'm actually really into urbanism so this episode speaks to me (build protected bike lanes and faster and accessible public transportation!). This episode also gives a little more depth to our characters, Bashir and Dax. There are fantastic moments with Quark and Odo. So, great character stuff, great messaging, and great writing. It's a damn good episode! Also, people should try to spend a few days in a wheel chair and get around from place to place. I had to for a short while for so medical reasons and it sucked. We should do better. It's a real issue.
I was not expecting you guys to like this one at all. Usually it is considered one of the weaker episodes of the show.
It doesn't really surprise me anymore. I think everyone enjoys at least a handful of episodes that are considered "bad" by the majority. I'm sure there's someone out there who loves Imaginary Friend. Although I can say that my opinion on this episode hasn't changed. I still think it's bottom ten in the entire show.
I really like rewatching this with you guys because I forget how many good episodes I dismiss. On a rewatch I was like... oh this is good. *Puts on Captain's Holiday* ... and yet sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
It's definitely more fun to watch someone enjoy something that doesn't work for you than to see someone dump on something you like or love, so as someone who's an unconverted hater of this episode, I enjoyed this reaction. And at least we can all agree the singing Klingon waiter is awesome.
Josh- DS9 is set in the early 2370s - TOS was 2266-2269...
First season of TNG is 2364. And final season ends to 2370. DS9 starts from year 2369 if we do not count that borg attack start on episode.
Random thought: It would be interesting to get Melora's backstory at Starfleet Academy and learn how she succeeded. It's obvious what her strengths are, but tell me more about things she would probably struggle with, like combat training or how she can assist her fellow officers when they beam down to a planet with difficult terrain or climates and get trapped or injured, stuff like that. I imagine some of the answers are about using technology, so what happens when the tech isn't working or available in an emergency? I usually think of Starfleet officers as having to be very versatile, and it would seem like a major challenge. It makes me wonder if her character would make more sense if she went the Chief O'Brien route instead of being an officer, which I think would be more of a specialist role?
I enjoyed this episode a lot more than I remembered. Good reaction boys.
I’m really glad you didn’t read my take because I was down on the episode. I had seen this once, when it first aired, and I remember rolling my eyes and finding the episode cringe. But I decided to rewatch with you and as it unfolded I realize it was a decent episode. We finally start to see Dax and Bashir, as the writers start to figure out what to do with them. I would give this a solid B grade now, but watching you watch it and love it was an A.
I didn’t have good memories of this episode either. Good example of why I enjoy reactions from others - a new perspective brings out new notes!
Klingon worms are probably tastier than what's served in most mall food courts.
I have relatives with disabilities and they agree that Melora wants to feel completely alive and not like an invalid- so she refuses the help so she can feel "normal" so people see her for who she is and not just her disability. I note that you made that comment elsewhere....
I'm glad you guys are starting to like Julian more, he is one of my favourites, and i'm sure over time you'll love him more too. I know you marked at lower standards giving this S, but great. I really like it, i give it a B at regular standards.
I was at a convention in 91, when Majel Barret Roddenberry, announced the plans for DS9. Melora was supposed to be a regular cast member, so I think this episode was just an attempt to address the idea they had for a character who comes from low gravity and needs a wheelchair.
While I don't like this episode, I do love the actress that plays Melora so it would have been interesting to see her grow with the character as a regular cast member.
This is an episode that I recognize is good, but I really leave with a sense of 'that was fine' mixed with some specific bits I liked (the low gravity stuff, Odo's smile scene, the Klingon restaurant, the villain being especially an asshole and feeling more dangerous). Good performances as well. It just never 'grabbed' me very much.
that thumbnail made me laugh harder than it should lol
I think in general I can't really relate to your guys' approach to if you're doing an allegory, that you should have it be a part of the story but it shouldn't be the entire story. For me, that's the worst case scenario because you brought up a divisive topic and then said nothing about it. If you want to do a story about disability in Star Trek, fully dive into it, make it the entire story. This way you will have a stance with where to sit on the subject and have a message to deliver and your story will have no impact and for me Melora just has no impact on the disability topic and says so little about it it might as well not exist. Doing this whole inbetween thing of "ohhh we don't want to tell you a message so we'll just bring it up and not say anything" feels cowardly and that you just want to please the network and not have any controversy. It for me derides the purpose of creating art. For me art should bring up current day issues, all art is political and should have an impact on the audience and have a cultural impact.
It’s more so that in real life, disabled people exist and that doesn’t define their entire personality and existence, so it’s nice to see a story where the guest character is disabled, and while that’s important to their identity, they are written well enough to be an actual character who happens to be disabled and not exist purely to have a plot about a disabled person.
So I knew going in that a lot of people hated this one, but it was always just OK to me. I'd put it in B tier. Not amazing, but I don't really have any major problems with it. There's probably 4-5 eps this season I'd rate lower. There isn't an abundance of amazing eps in S2, but most are pretty competent, and some are quite good. As a kid this was a very forgettable episode, and I think a lot of people here watched it back then and never really revisited it. I on the other hand have a completionist attitude that compels me to watch every episode when I rewatch a series. Even the Aquiels and Imaginary Friends. So in 2011 and 2018/19 when I last went through DS9, I had a chance to evaluate this episode through adult eyes, and it was fine. I don't think many will rate it as highly as you guys, but a lot do seem to be coming around to a B tier rating. I would say the main points of criticism are Melora's initial attitude, the fact the episode is a bit on the boring side, and the less than stellar representation of living with a disability. I would also say that while some elements of Quark's B plot with Fallit Kot were amusing(particularly Odo's "don't threaten me with a good time" smile and offering to buy a piece of Quark), I don't think it worked all that well with Melora's story. Also the runabout fight while well directed, isn't all that convincing. Sure Melora would be more familiar with operating in low/zero G, but starfleet officers and most people working/living in space would have training to operate in zero G. It's not like you just become powerless if gravity goes out, nor would an Elaysian become stronger. The guy is still holding a phaser, and getting gut punched and gently bumped into the roof of the runabout is not going to take a hardened criminal out of commission. Would have been better if Melora grabbed a phaser and was able to deftly maneuver around taking cover in zero G while Kot fumbled around until she got a shot and stunned him. So I do feel there's a mismatch between the A and B plots here. Without saying too much, there is one other DS9 episode with even more horribly mismatched A and B plots. Both fine on their own, just with no business being in the same episode. As for the stuff I like, I do think this is one of if not the best outing for Bashir thus far. He comes across very naturally here IMO, and I do think there's some great chemistry between him and Melora. I'd also say that while her initial abrasiveness can be off putting, I get why they went that direction, and I think it does serve her character arc in the end. I'm not 100% sold on her not being able to go home after the treatments(though at least they clarified that she could still visit). It just seems like after the treatments going back home would be akin to astronauts spending months on a space station. Also she could have an apartment/house with artificial gravity to avoid long term muscle degradation. And of course, the Klingon restaurant and chef are a great addition to the promenade. Adding all these shops and restaurants brings a lot of flavor and personality to the station. You start to imagine walking through the promenade and going past your favourite spots much like walking through your favourite mall. So overall, it's a decent episode. It's great to see the writers putting in the effort to develop Bashir given how little he had to work with in S1, and a good bit of that was bad/forgettable. He's had significant roles in the last 3 episodes, and a fair bit to do in the 3 parter as well. DS9 does a much better job than TNG or TOS and fully utilizing it's entire cast.
I loved this episode and I have no clue why so many people didn't. The guest actress was really great and Bashir really shined. I have no complaints and totally agree with everything you guys said about this episode. Great reaction!
Ya im not sure the hate either, this was a good episode
I thought y’all would like this one. On first watch, I appreciated how real it felt. Dr Bashir is my least favorite character, so that does affect how much I can rewatch his episodes. But one of my favorite DS9 eps is one of his. So there are good stuff even I can appreciate.
Every time you guys speculate about the future of the franchise might hold, it makes me want to cut together a trailer of nothing but clips of stuff that will absolutely blow your mind when you get to it. Like a Star Trek cyanide pill for if you ever decide to bail on the journey.
Lmao you should
Jadzia’s wing man arc begins.
Worst episode so far. It's so one dimensional and predictable, rote, by the numbers, textbook Very Special Episode writing. This could have been from Family Ties, and Alex meets an angry disabled girl in class but can't seem to befriend her. This entire story might even be able to be found in the show "Family " from 1976. This maybe needed the canned laughter machine to make "awww" sounds or whatever when she was pushing him away. I can't believe this is even in a ST show.
With your discussion on 'first first contact' it is highly recommended NOT to read the YouTube comments. at all.
Yeah in hindsight watching this one with you guys I'd probably raise my grade to a B+ there's just a lot of episodes to come that I enjoy more
Hmmm....S2 is still Beta DS9. I do think Malora is easily re-jiggable into a TNG episode.....which is a real problem for me. It cuts to the lack of a consistent identity for DS9 at this point in its run. It is very noticeable that the Starfleet officers (besides O'Brien) are the characters who lack definition. The non-standard ST characters (Odo, Kira, Quark, Nog, Garek, Dukat) have all made a strong impression.
The "Gene Roddenberry Box" may be partially to blame for that. Conflict drives drama and Starfleet people aren't supposed to have conflict by the rules of the GRB. Note that while there has been plenty of conflict that's alien v alien or sf v alien, the closest we've come to sf v sf conflict prior to this was O'Brian finding Bashier massively annoying in "Storyteller." (Sisko v Picard arguably doesn't count, since Sisko's beef is with the Borgified "alien" Picard)
Your review of this episode finally convinced me you guys will love DS9. Why? Because I kinda thought this episode was mid. A "B" at best? Looking forward to getting home from work to see your actual reaction. This is the same pleasant surprise I had when you were loving season 1 of TNG.
It goes both ways though. Sure they can give some "B" episodes an "S," but they could also end up giving some "S" episodes a "D." Things that we absolutely love about DS9 might not be their jam, and vice versa.
No one is going to ask how an alien race that evolved with a thick bar over their mouths was able to eat?
Clearly there was no discussion between the writers and the makeup folks about this guy. He drinks in one scene, and eating is a big part of another.
Okay upon a rewatch with you guys, through more mature eyes, I absolutely see this in a better light. I TOTALLY forgot about the Quark stuff! What I would have given a D a few years ago, I now think it's a B. Still not a favorite but absolutely a banger! I didn't appreciate these kinda episodes when I first binged the series. I never HATED this, I just found it boring and never watched it again. I should have. In fact, there's only one DS9 episode that I actively hate and is offensive on every level. (no, Not Move Along Home. I loved it for being bad) We will get there one day many seasons from now. I will have a LOT to say. lol. But this episode went from being "omg it's so boring" to something I really appreciate and like. Thanks!
🤣
On the comment about "people whose thing is feeling bad for themselves." So again, having a disability, this kind of bugs me. You always see the "this person was disabled and climbed the Himalays, invented toast, and won the second world war all by themselves. What's your excuse?" My issue isn't that people are usign disabled people to inspire themselves. My issue is that most disabled people AREN'T incredibly successful, and strangely enough it contgributes to this phenomenon where if you have difficulties because of your health issues, people tend to judge you harshly, one person having said "well, I know a person who is disabled and very successful." There are a lot of obstacles, and many people struggle with them and all sorts of other complexities. It's not that it's not great when people can do that, but bizarrely it creates this unrealistic standard for disabled people- like we're never supposed to be frustrated or fail or have things we can't do, we just need to pull up our bootstraps and somehow overcome all of these. Depending on the specifics, there may not be much if any social support or understanding either.
I don't expect anyone with a disability to always be the "strong heroic" kind you always hear about. Those types of people are actually incredibly rare. I know most people with disabilities are "normal" people who are going to struggle. And I kind of have experience with this myself. My kids are both autistic and non-verbal. People who know nothing about autism tend to assume "oh, well if they can't talk, then they must have a super power somewhere else to make up for it." No, their "superpower" if probably getting overwhelmed around large groups of people and getting extremely frustrated that they can't communicate. My problem is that disabled or not, there are healthy ways to deal with life's circumstances, and there are unhealthy ways to deal with them. I don't like it when people dealing with things in an unhealthy way is glorified or excused. Now if the message is as you said, that not eveyone is strong, and sometimes people's ways of handling things is all they can do, then that's different.
The Bechdel test was a joke, literally, and Alison Bechdel has said many times she had no idea people would take it seriously.
@Alan Thompson That is my understanding as well. Regardless of whether it was a joke or not, I don't think this so-called 'test' tells me much, if anything at all, about how well the character was written. A great female character can 'fail' this 'test', and a poorly-written female character can 'pass' it. I think it was originally about how some lesbians were disappointed that whatever art they were reading or watching only featured straight women who would talk about their husbands/boyfriends. For one thing, there are certainly many gay characters in fiction, now more than ever, and for another, I would point out that anyone can relate to a character even if you don't share their age, race, nationality, religion, gender, or orientation, and I wish more people could focus on that instead of just the more surface-level stuff. Edit to add: I realize it's not that simple; I am speaking in general. Second Edit: I just got to where they brought it up this time, and now I understand it that Josh references it only as a meme. In the past, whenever he brought it up he did so in such a dry way that I had been under the impression he was serious.
For me this one if very forgettable. Just kind of boring. The staff wasn't really happy with it either. According to the staff, the villian never came off menancing enough, Quatk never seemed intimidated enough, and one of the writers who was also in a wheelchair found that it did things he wanted to avoid with disabled tropes.
The point of the Bechdel test wasb't about whether a particular media passes, but to illustrate how male dominated tv and movies are in pointiong out how rare it is to see a scene where two women are talking about anything other then a man, as oppossed to the many times two men will be talking about something other then a woman.
Also everyone forgets/overlooks the other half of the test: in order to pass, both women in the conversation need to have actual names.
I've said it before -- this episode is a great example of why I love rewatching these episodes along with you. I was a teenager the first time I watched "Melora" and remember just being irritated by Melora's initial abrasiveness toward everyone. I'm sure I'd seen it one other time on a rewatch, but it never stood out and was skippable for me. Your perspectives have made me appreciate it a lot more.
as a person with a disability, I'm always amused by the trope of everyone trying to hard to help disabled people (here it's maybe more that she has a chip on her shoulder and that's her perception) I always find these hllarious. Wow, how great would it be if THAT was the issue I faced, lol
They actually originally had plans to make a character like this one of the main cast members but they realized how difficult it would be logistically and the character was replaced by Dax.
In the original Little Mermaid, she fails and is cursed to spend eternity as seafoam. Interesting fact, the story was inspired by the author's homosexual crush on a straight person and how it could never be requieted
Seafoam?!
I am glad y’all like this episode, but it is surprising how high you hold it. I do like the Bashir character stuff, but past that POOP! lol
I find the Quark story too silly, I think it clashes with the rest of the episode in tone too hard, I find that they wrote her character way too off putting, and I know that’s part of the character growth, but bringing it down a bit would have helped, and the guy wanting to kill quark was way too mustache twirling allá season one in some key parts and in others he was alright, making him a worse character that he could have been! Those are my reasons for putting this episode in a D, boring but in the worst way possible.
I was thinking about you guys talking about long distance relationships. In TNG time a couple could share interactive holo programs with each other it would be like futuristic sexting.
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I'm actually super glad that you both liked this episode. I've never personally hated it; I liked *scenes* from it, but I mostly felt "meh" about it as a whole. I actually find myself presently surprised when you both really enjoy episodes that the bulk of the patrons either dislike or don't find fantastic, because it gives us a new perspective. The only part that troubles me is that I personally feel that other episodes prior to this are far *superior*, lulz. But I'll just need to shoulder that as a personal take. Thanks for carrying on~
Melora. Mermaid. Get it? I give this a B. Just a little too predictable, but Siddig turns in probably his best performance so far (though still not great). Daphne Ashbrook turns in a good performance, as well. Nice wire work. And not only a Klingon chef, but Klingon opera? Chef's kiss. I am with you guys on the people that chose the shiny new look of Star Trek 2009: Shut the fV
You asked for it: TOS was in the 2260s, the movies mostly in the 2280s. ST6 took place around 2293-94. TNG started in 2364, and is currently in 2370, along with DS9. 150 years ago would be a Dax around the year 2220, or just a decade or so before Kirk and Spock were born.
Josh: A few other pieces of information might be helpful....ONLY what we know as of this airdate of this episode.... 1) In TOS Season 2, Episode 9: Metamorphosis It is 2267 and we see the Shuttle craft with the crew and female Ambassador land on a rogue planet to find a guy who "melds" with the female gaseous "Companion". The crew learn that this is Zephram Cochrane, the human who invented Warp drive, and he says he ran off "about 150 years prior when he was 87 years old". This means Cochrane flew way to escape celebrity around 2117 and would have been born around 2030. This means that Cochrane would be born 5 years from NOW in the Star Trek Universe and invents Warp Drive sometime in the mid-2000s. That is what we know from the shows so far 2) In the TOS episode "The Savage Curtain" where Kirk and Spock meet Lincoln and Vulcan Surak and must battle Colonel Green, Genghis Khan and the Klingon Kahless we learn that Green was a mass murderer who killed millions in the 21st century before and after WWIII. Which confirms that WWIII was NOT at the time of Kahn in the 1990s but later. 3) in the TNG pilot, Encounter at Far Point, we see Q enter in strange red robes as a judge and we see post-apocalyptic human "rabble" in the crowd. Data cite human rights laws of 2036 and Q announces that "this is a court of the year 2079" with military rules of procedure. So that implies that WWIII and the ensuing chaos happened between 2036 and 2079. We know from TOS that Kahn and his augments escaped Earth in the Botany Bay sleeper ship in the 1990s, but from above WWIII occurs in the mid-2000s and the discovery of Warp ALSO was in the mid-2000s. Presumably Earth THEN has to rebuild and form a world government, form Star Fleet, eliminate money, hunger etc, meet the Vulcans and somehow be involved with the forming of Federation sometime before the 2230s when Kirk and Spock were born. That is all the timeline "lore" one would know as of the airdate....hope that adds extra color
Guys, let me say this: the reason I watch your reactions is because they so often make me rethink my opinion of an episode. I've seen this one a handful of times over the decades, and it rarely interested me. But, your enjoyment of it made this rewatch feel different, and I found myself enjoying it a lot more.
Regarding her not moving up in the ranks quickly, it's quite possible that her perceived attitude has held her back. She probably ruffled the feathers of a lot of commanding officers who weren't as understanding as a Sisko or Picard. If she lectured every new C.O. the way she did Sisko, they might not have taken kindly to that in her evaluations.
Melora's situation is similar to Geordi's. They can give him "close to human" eyes, but he'd lose the advantages of the VISOR. He can take painkillers, but same result. So, he stays with the VISOR.
Also, if my take was one of the ones that indicated Melora doesn't return, I'm really sorry. I don't remember exactly what I wrote, but I may not have been careful to phrase things the right way. What I intended to say was that I'm glad she wasn't part of the main cast, as was planned at one point as the show was being created.
You’re fine
An attempt to explain why I don't really care for this episode: I guess mostly I just feel like neither the writing nor the performances have anything like the subtlety of something like "Lessons". It feels very by-the-numbers to me. A lot of the dialogue was much too on the nose for me, notably Melora's speech to Sisko near the beginning, where she more or less just says, "Here's my whole character and motivation." I do love the Klingon chef, though.
Glad the guys liked it, there is trek for everybody. I just thought the episode is dull.
Was just singing 🎶 They fucked in zero G! It destroyed her settee.🎶 💦
Odo doesn’t allow weapons on the Promenade, yet somehow the bad guys always manage to get them aboard? Quark should have been packing.
This is an episode I didn’t like as a kid and I think it’s just fine now. I can see how it fits your vibe and it does try to give Bashir more character.
I think the problem people have with the episode is not appreciating the mix of the disability and fish-out-of-water aspects. That could be a either failure of the episode or the viewer, but I do enjoy this episode.
A thing I’ve read about walls of writers is that it means something whether they use “and” or the ampersand. The ampersand means they worked as a team; “and” means they worked separately. Here it seems to indicate two rounds of rewrites.
Interesting! I've never heard that.
One of the things I’m enjoying doing this rewatch is sometimes reappraising an episode that I have dismissed in the past. There is actually a lot I like here on the rewatch. Daphne Ashbrook is great - the Klingon Restaurant is a fun idea and done well, Bashir is well written. I had totally forgot the Odo and Quark scenes and they’re great fun. It’s better than most of season 1. Probably enjoy others this season more but yeah definitely aged well. 🤷♂️
I'm completely with you guys on this episode. I went into it expecting to hate it, I even avoided a rewatch at first and then 10 minutes into the reaction I turned it off and watched it on its own, and loved it. The writing is mature, and while I wouldn't necessarily put Melora in my top tier of guest appearances I thought she was quite good. And it's definitely Bashir's best outing so far. It also raises complex questions about disabilities... having spent many years involved with an acting troupe in Denver in which all the actors have a disability, and making some of the best friends of my life (as well as my partner of 3 years) through this group, I have enjoyed a rather unique perspective. The desire for independence is real and strong here, and I think this handled it really well for a '90s show.
This is a good episode of television. Klingon chef is the cherry on top. Ensign is the lowest ranking officer rank BUT it is still an officer, which is a big deal. Crewman below Ensign are not officers. Chief O'Brien is technically an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer), which is of the enlisted ranks, and Worf's Father in Family was chumming with him about being an Enlisted man (non-officer) as well. We've seen enlisted ranks below officer going all the back to Yeoman Rand. (Yeoman is no longer a rank in TNG era, but the word crewman is used frequently enough).
Totally forgot this was the Klingon Restaurant episode!! Love the idea and the waiter.
I particularly like the actress, Daphne Ashbrook, who appeared in this episode and later appears in the 1996 Doctor Who movie, a lot of sensitivity develops around this episode because for most people who think they’re well adjusted often can’t tolerate episodes like this because they feel that they could not handle being in that situation and they do not wish to think about it or evaluate it It’s kind of similar to the way that strangers when they meet me stumble over the word see or look and apologize and then say well if I was blind, I don’t think I could handle it or live. It becomes too much for them and their people I typically never see Again mostly due to their inability to handle a situation
I continue to despise this one. I acknowledge that it's not bad on a technical level, the dialogue is competent, etc. But as a disabled person the way the story treats Melora just grates on me. Totally ruins what should have been a good episode.
Hate to be that guy, but I am going to be that guy. A section of people hate/dislike this episode, because it portrays a person with a disability with an attitude. Especially doesn't help that the character is also a woman.
I hate the portrayal because it’s a stereotype seen in every drama from the 80s and early 90s: the cold-hearted person with a disability whose heart melts when she meets a hero. Saved By The Bell did it better.
Well, reading the comments I see that you loved it. So I'm going to be fair here. I saw this episode once a few years back when I just got into Star Trek. I was only like 17. I couldn't stand it. Of all the times I re-watched DS9, I skip this one. I won't skip it today. I will give it a fair shot and see if anything has changed for me. I'm definitely more mature now (or so I wanna believe lol. Others may have a different opinion of me). Maybe I'll appreciate it more seeing through my 2025 eyes. It's happened before. Stay tuned later tonight ^_^
I remembered not liking this episode and I was looking forward to schadenfreude in the comments about how bad it was, but I was surprised to find myself enjoying it. I think this one gets a bad rap because of the Raiden torpedo move at the end, but there are a lot of thoughtful moments init. I especially liked the calm way Bashir dismantled Melora's preemptive-strike mentality. As a doctor you'd assume he has at least basic training in psychology, so seeing him actually use his skills and be good at his job is a nice departure from what's come before.
I remember this as a meh elisode. A re-watch of this with you guys I found it to be a lot more interesting.
My problem with the Siddig is that he's not a very good actor. He's fine if he's not showing great emotion. But when he has to emote it's cartoonish. Luckily in this epp he's subtle and believable
I think this episode and indeed this season show him to be a wonderful actor. And he only gets better as the show goes on. I think Siddig was too inexperienced in season one to overcome the rushed direction and production.
Can’t wait for you guys to keep digging in…
Oddly there is a lot of hate for this episode out there.. Here is a quote I found in a forum: " They could have just gotten a sledgehammer and written "PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS CAN CONTRIBUTE TOO!" on it and hit us over the head with it for 45 minutes. The story is lame and not memorable and contributes nothing to the rest of the series. It's unbelievable, ridiculous, half-baked, half-assed, illogical, heavy-handed and dumb. It's Mary Sue fan fiction made into an episode. " Personally, I don't think it's all THAT bad, but I can see that it does bring out a lot of emotions, especially from the handicapped community.. also Bashir needs to stop banging his patients.
Yeah that’s crazy imo
I thought it was pretty good. I get why a lot of people think it's decidedly average and in some ways it is - but it was "great value for money" with characterisation. Some nice scenes between people - good writing, and you're never going to get tired of Odo and Quark scenes.
An S? Best guest character of DS9 so far? What are you boys smoking and how can we get some? 🤣
High on that good writing
old joke from the 90s: A Trekker wonders what it's like to have sex in zero gravity. A Trekkie wonders what it's like to have sex
I remember the Trekker-Trekkie thing. But that has completely died off, hasn't it?
I never understood the disdain for this episode. I actually appreciate it a little more every time I see it. It's the first time we see Bashir seem comfortable in his own skin for one. Not quite S for me but a solid B.
definitely wasn't expecting you guys to love this so much, this is honestly one of the worst episodes of the season. Not the worst, but IMO somewhere in the vicinity of 3rd to 5th worst.
High-key disagree, but hope that means the season is all great then
The Habitat Ring is one of the rings around the station that has all the quarters. And the Chief himself has done warp transport. He did it during The Best of Both Worlds, but he mentioned that they had to "match warp velocity."
This is a skipper
I suppose the episode Melora would be more likable if the character Melora was likable.
Just remember, Yesterday’s Enterprise had a wall of writers and ended up being one of the greatest Trek episodes ever.
Exactly, this isn't that at all
Incredible thumbnail!