UNCUT - Invasive Procedures (DS9 S2E4) | Star Trek Journey 285
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DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version No scores that I saw (remember I am only catching up with the short versions) The sex score board Chief 1 Keiko 1 Quark 1 Odo 1 Kira 1
But you have to give me your word that no one else will be hurt. You can keep shooting the Chief, but no one else
Those are production numbers, and the DVD only shows the last three digits. Emissary as a whole was 40511-721 which is a feature-length production code, and then when split into a 2-parter it was 40511-401 and 40511-402 and they just increment with each episode produced. New seasons increment the first 5-digit number also, but don't reset the second 3-digit number, so "Invasive Procedures" was 40512-424. Sometimes it's out of order from air date which can be interesting, but it's rare (maybe 1-2 per season). S1E4 "A Man Alone" was 40511-403 and S1E3 "Past Prologue" was 40511-404.
Sometimes I think I’ve forgotten how to laugh but you both got one out of me. Especially that bit where you wondered how joining started and Alex said “hmmm i’ll put this in my stomach” I don’t know why i find his impressions so funny. It just snaps me out of the immersion so abruptly. Rewatching DS9 has made me realise how utterly useless Odo is. He seems as prone to punches as anyone else and doesn’t seem to deliver them any better than Kira. Really his character is an office based investigator but his role is a front line police officer.
Did you notice that the Klingon T’Kar was portrayed by Tim Russ, who was also one of the villains in “Starship Mine.” He was the runner-up to LeVar Burton for the role of Geordi LaForge.
Always love to see actors with lots of different guest roles.
I think unironically this is an A-tier ep.
This episode might seem to be average or slightly above average when compared to most of season 1, but by season 2 standards, it's actually one of the weaker episodes. When I think of the bottom tier of this season, Invasive Procedures is there. There's some real bangers coming up.
You know who got their ass kicked A Lot? Worf. Lol
Try to imagine pouring the entire consciousness of another person inside of your own consciousness. Imagine doing that with someone who is very unlike you. Now wrestle with the thoughts of how that might change the feelings you have now that another persons feelings are blended with your own. Imagine the experiences and the knowledge now enmeshed with the ones you had. All of the guilts, all of the happiness, all of the loves, all of the distastes, all of the aspirations, and all of the regrets melded now into one being. How does that change you as the person you are now? Do you hold onto your passions in the same way? Do you still sleep on the same side of the bed? Do you still like your favorite food? Do you still like the same smells? Do you still have the same sense of what is right and wrong? What now are your internal conflicts as you grapple with two souls in one? Now, how does that change with a third soul? A fourth? Fifth? Sixth? More?
I have a suggestion, guys! It's something another 2-person review team has been doing... after every episode, they have a segment where they attempt to predict what the next episode is about based on title alone; it's pretty funny what they predict. After they watch the next episode, they talk about how wrong (or right) they were. Might be a fun segment for you two!
B5 for the first time?
so one thing I wasn't clear on- Was Jarad's plan always to abandon his girlfriend, or did he onloy decided that after je was joined? I was unclear on that. Was it like, he figured he needed her but wouldnt after he was joined, or a spontaneous change of plans after he was joined? Either way... dude is really kind of a dick. Also... how funny, both him and Li Nalas- "I plan to build a new life in the gama quadrant" Of course because its star trek, we know there will be other humanoid worlds but think about that. "I plan to make a new life on the other side of the galaxy with aliens I have no familiarity with and no notehing of their culture. What if the wormholr had went to the Delta Qudrant instead? "I plan to make a new life with with the all the races of the delta quadrant" Flash forward hes through the wormhole, making as much distance as he can, then spends the rest of his life trying to escape the borg or winds up part of the collective
I think he legitimately liked her but after the joining, his new combined personality simply didn't care for her anymore. As Sisko said, it's an entirely new person. It could be as simple as, she wasn't his type.
Excellent episode, compelling story but truly elevated by John Glover, Avery Brooks and really, every single person on screen gives a solid performance. Oh and damn does Sisko go hard 1v1 against that Klingon... Sisko must have some Klingon spirit in him.
My theory for how the Trill work is that early on the symbiote was a parasite that would basically painfully burrow its way into the Trill but through evolution said parasites gained intelligence and the pairing became beneficial. The Trill evolved a desire to be joined just as much as the symbiote wants to be joined. They can live without it but having a symbiote is an evolutionary advantage. Once modern medicine was created on the Trill homeworld I imagine one of the first things they figured out was surgically joining so that it didn't have to just painfully borrow in
omg I LOVE the thumbnail you chose!
I'm so glad the 50/50 Trill balance came across clearly.
I really enjoyed this one, it’s almost an A for me but not quite there. Great performances all round and awesome fight choreography. Just think - Klingons are supposed to be stronger and more durable than humans, but Sisko overpowered and beat the shit out of that dude. Sisko must be like Mike Tyson levels of punching ability
Sisko is more than a mere human.
Give some love for the legend Tim Russ(the head Klingon of the group) think we last saw him in TNG’s Starship Mine, before that.
Yeah he's a great actor.
I had forgotten how much Quark was involved in the resolution here. Entertaining B episode!
it's pretty amazing how there are never any consequences for anything Quark does. I know there's some handwavy thing about he smuggled weapons for the resistance so the Bajoran government likes him (forget when but I think they briefly mentioned it already, maybe in the one about the guy who was extorting majorans for medicine and Quark compared how waht he was doing was different? if they havent mentioned it yet, sorry, but its not much of a spoiler, just some handwavy excuse that comes up now and then for why the Bajoran government gives him a lot of leeway), but still. While he didn't know they were going dor Jadzia's symbiont, and (probably) wouldn't have agreed to that, he still let them byspass the security system and hold Odo hostage so he could sell them some sort of data rods. Of course next episode he will be back in his bar and no one will ever mention it again, like all the other times he's committed serious crimes.
Sisko wasn't gaslighting. Gaslighting is when you invalidate another's perceptions and condescend their opinions in order to decieve them into thinking that they have no self-worth, can't trust their own judgement, and the gaslighter's world view is all that matters. It's a form of control where the gaslighter pushes others down in order to prop themselves up. Sisko might have manipulated her maybe, but he wasn't trying to decieve her or act nefarious. All he did was tell the truth. Everything he told Mariel was true. Mariel is just so unhealthy and codependent that she wants to stick her head in the sand, ignore all the warning signs, and act like there's nothing to worry about. All of her self-worth comes from Verad. So it's more like Sisko is stopping her from gaslighting herself, and forcing her to see what's really going on. She's being used. Unhealthy people don't like hearing the truth.
I feel gaslit by this comment
John Glover has a humorous cameo in Annie Hall 1977. That might even be his first film role for all I know.
This was one episode I hated when I originally watched it because there wasn't a punishment for Quark for causing all this. Once you get past that, its actually a pretty decent episode
then you must hate a lot of episodes because theres never any punishment for quark's many, many crimes
Give it up Verad, you're not that Dax, pal
I also appreciate John Glover and love his performance in Gremlins 2. Someone also mentioned him voicing Riddler in Batman TAS; I forgot about that one. By the way, I couldn't help but ask: Did Sisko really need to practically AIM at the symbiot when shooting this dude at the end? lol
Yeah lol he could have shot him in the leg but nope, gut shot
Please don't beat Josh up for referring to the Dax symbiant as the "trill" instead of the humanoid host. It isn't that important, and we know what Josh means.
He will eventually figure it out.
I like this episode. It's clear the writers still weren't quite sure how to handle Jadzia. At this point in the show, they really do focus more on the symbiant than the Trill. It's unfortunate because they really don't give Terry Farrell much to work with and it's pretty clear to me that she's trying her best with what she's given.
Farrell, although a relatively inexperienced actress, always struck me in season 1 and 2 as always being a professional and trying to inject something into her role. She is a bit too young and green to convince as the host of a long lived entity, but that's a casting issue, not a reflection on Farrell's attitude.
Jadzia was joined to the Dax symbiont after she was in Starfleet.
Really? Was that established somewhere? Because at the start of the show she is 28. So, 4 years at the Academy, another couple to get a promotion or two after graduation and commissioning. So presumably she entered the Academy at around age 22. I would assume, given that she has a couple of degrees that she completed before being joined, that she would have been joined sometime soon before entering the Academy. Being a star student, she probably began her college coursework in her teens, and would have been joined soon after completing college on Trill, and then moved onto a Starfleet career.
The only reason that DS9 episode numbers started with a 4 was so there would be no confusion since it and TNG were produced simultaneously. Episodes were referred to by their production number.
Notice Sisko also mentions serving aboard the (David) Livingston right after the Cliffs of Bole comment.
We get the name drop of the Orinoco, the runabout that replaced the Yangtze Kiang that was destroyed in “Battle Lines” in this episode.
Bole = a planet Bolians = people from that planet Cliffs of Bole = a geological landmark on the planet
Cliff Bole = one of the directors of Star Trek TNG, DS9 & Voyager. :)
Has Alex always been this afraid of female skin flaps?
LMAO!!!! I had no idea you guys were so squeamish!!!
They had no problem with an exploding head though
what this watch through is teaching me is that the sequencing of the episodes in season 1 and 2 is really off. This should have come later in the series, after we've spent a bit more time with Jadzia. And as you pointed out, so it doesn't seem like they are evacuating the station every week lol.
The cost of the opening 3 episodes meant that a drastic cost saving was required. So all non-main cast actors/walk by extras were a no-no. Evacuating the station (again) was the only justification.
Yeah I think this one is solid. Lower B tier. The switch between timid and confident Verad was played very well. The whole merc gang were also pretty entertaining characters. And how about that beatdown Sisko gave that klingon? I think Battle Lines was the first time we saw Sisko go into "beast mode", and again in Dramatis. Wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of those beatings. While Dax doesn't get so much to do here(well, Jadzia doesn't), I do think Bashir is really starting to come into his own this season. The character is less clueless and more confident, and the acting is much better IMO. On the one hand, saying the operation went perfectly may seem out of place to say as a way to comfort Jadzia given it's just confirmation she's going to die. OTOH, I think it was meant to reassure her that the symbiote will live at least. As for Quark, it's pretty clear he thought this was just a ruse to to offload some contraband while this group was "stranded" on the station. Only problem is that shouldn't require disabling weapon sensors in the airlock. He definitely screwed up big time.
I love John Glover. Not only did he play Lex Luthor's dad in Smallville, and voiced the Riddler on Batman: The Animated Series, but back when the TIm Burton Batman movie was in development, he was my 1st choice for playing the Joker. He plays evil and crazy very well.
Yea I’ve liked him since Gremlins 2 as well. I never realized he was gay until I saw him on Micheal Rosenbaum’s show spilling the tea about hooking up with Freddie Mercury in the 70’s. 😆
TNG mostly don't carry arms on the bridge, except for Yesterday's Enterprise, where the change to everyone being armed is commented on.
I’m loving this ep on rewatch. My only problem is that hooker lady bears the crap out of Kira? It’s practically the only thing she ever gets her ass kicked. 😆 she spoilers 5 spoilers with a spoiler .. 😂
Makes me wonder does Jadzia have another last name before Dax?
John Glover was also Lex Luthors Dad Lionel Luthor in the show “Smallville”
Great reaction! Can't believe I never made the Gremlins 2 connection before! This is a good episode for exploring some more Trill lore, but you're right that it does little for Jadzia's character. You'll just have to wait for some of that!
Seems like she’s getting more lines. I wondered if they didn’t trust her to act first season. Having been a former model.
Ah Miles and that pesky shoulder - he’s injured it before kayaking on the Holodeck. Good performances in this one from John Glover tho do think Jadzia is a little sidelined but it’s good to see the Trill lore continue to expand. It’s a good solid episode
Should’nt John Doe have fixed it permanently in Transfigurations.
The 421 etc from memory were studio production numbers. They also have a number at the start TNG were 42711 (I think) followed by 101 onwards. DS9 for some reason started with a 4. Voyagers went back to starting with a 1 so 105 etc.
Those numbers are production codes. Never really intended for anyone but production staff to use. I believe TNG started with 101 (I believe to differentiate it from TOS which started at 01). DS9 was started at 401, just to avoid any possible overlap with TNG.
Great catch on Josh's part about Mareel being the same race as Dr. Farallon from The Quality of Life. Apparently, they are indeed both Tyrans (according to Memory Alpha).
who now, according to my head lore, are very strong, given she was able to beat up Kira
Clamp!! Gremlins 2 was one a few movies that "molded" me as a kid. Not a shocker that a a "Gremlins 2 person" is here. For real, John Glover (Clamp) is great in everything!
The Cliffs of Bole are on the Planet Bolius, which is home to the Bolians.
Really creative names, these are.
Didn’t Varad say the symbiont was weakened because it was so soon after the transfer? I don’t think we ever saw who the fully integrated Varad Dax would have been, because the joining was still incomplete and that’s why the symbiont had less agency than Varad.
Verad
That was my main takeaway from this episode, was that Dax himself seems to have little or no morality concerning hurting someone else. Since it's been so many years since I've seen this show, I don't remember if Varad's ugly head ever pops up again in Jadzia's personality... I doubt it... but I like the last shot that indicates that Jadzia may end up having a streak of melancholy in her personality that wasn't there before.
I don't think it's like that. The Dax symbiont doesn't have a consciousness independent of the host, so it's not like Dax could fighr jarad. Its one consciousness- and while they say 50/50, the host is the one whose activelty in control, they just have access to memories, skills, elements of personality that they did before. There isn't discontinuity or disharmony between the various consciousnesses, they are all merged into one. So a person will be affected by those which he was, and maybe over time he would have felt remorse about what he did, but he was just joined and hadn't even fully integrated, hes not going to change that much that he is suddenly going to give up his plans because its still HIM. The Dax host would be a positive moral influence overall, but unlike when Riker was temporarirly joined as a human and his personality was almost totally surpressed (but not QUITE totally, there was still some Riker in there) Varad is still in control. Keep in mind, though he was rejected, he spent his whole life training to be joined-longer then Jadzia did who only applied when she was already a yougn adult. He knows all abotu the "don't be overwhelmed by the Dax consciousness and keep control" aspect, as undoubtedly he had already thought about that before enacting this plan, as it was very well thought out and organized, so much so that he had to wait for a plasma storm and be prepared to go when their was one on the "weather" forecast. Given his lifetime of training, it wouldn't be likely he wouldnt think, gee, what if im overwhelmed by the symbiont and have regrets. In fact, when we watch him after he's joined, its almost like that part is on autopilot, Like he's absolutely genuine about being friends with Sisko but when the suggestion of backing out comes he immediately says no, doesn't even think about it. Imagine he's trained himself to do this and compartamentalize that part of the plan.
I think you are right that when a Trill is joined, they merge into one consciousness. That new consciousness comes complete with it's own sense of self preservation, hence Varad Dax wanting to continue on regardless of consequences. Varad's sense of justification is an integral part of Varad Dax.
Another example of chief Miles O’Brien must suffer
So he’s the Troi of this show, then.
way to nail the dad pun at the end.
Now I must return to the show and unpause as I was a good target and responded instantly
The shows would be the original series, the animated series, the next generation, deep space nine number four
Yes, you are looking at the season and episode number combination as in the fourth series not really season the 20/21 and 22nd episodes Voyager would be five and then the first episode would be oh one which would be a way to refer to various episodes without giving away episode titles, but is still set expectations for events if people designate specific episodes by show and episode configuration
A little bit more DAX lore
Nothing in this review will be as amazing as that screencap. Should be an alternate banner for TA.