UNCUT - Rightful Heir (TNG S6E23) | Star Trek Journey 270

My god this is a snoozefest. I barely remembered it and I can see why.

I liked the idea that he wasn't an imposing figure compared to modern Klingons. It implies that the stories about him are not entirely accurate, even exaggerated. So when they make an exact clone, his physical form doesn't match their expectations. But it's science, so what can they do? I think this casting choice was a clever way to foreshadow the truth of the matter.

Oh no! The reappearnce of Goh-ron! LOL!

This is such a weird one!

He probably Isreal lol

Data's role in this was very Guinan-esque, and felt a little off because of it. It's like they were thinking "we need a Guinan scene where she shares her wisdom, but Whoopi's not available this week... who can we use instead?"

Could also be called Rightful Hair I wonder if Worf ever started using a conditioning agent?

Kevin Conway was a great actor with a very memorable voice. Short in stature, he was an interesting casting choice, totally against type, but, a successful one.

Also, in a shipboard/military situation...not showing up to work is a much bigger deal than in some sort of civilian job. AWOL is something that can get you thrown behind bars. Being a bit late, whatever. But to not show up at all, with no notice, and to be found tripping balls in your quarters? Yeah. That's bad. Especially for a senior officer and dept head.

Its a preposterous premise, that a high tech civilization like the Klingons would just accept a clone en masse of a religious/historical figure as Emperor. Even today, if the Vatican cloned Christ, how many people would simply accept such a laboratory exercise as a literal second coming? Even knowing that he's a clone whipped up in a petri dish? ...Oh shit. Actually...a bunch of dipshits probably would. They already see his face in a burned piece of toast. Nevermind. Fully legit.

Worried about lack of klingons in ds9…

Klingons discover the concept of a constitutional monarchy

I freaking hate this episode. Acting is great. Production value is top-notch. The message is trash. “Sometimes you’ve just gotta throw all that science, proof and TRUTH out the window and accept religious lies and nonsense.” So much potential wasted on a backward message.

I've always loved that Worf has such a reputation for punctuality that as soon as he is late for work one morning they immediately send a security team to his quarters because something must be seriously wrong.

At this point, "Doctor Selar" is a running gag in the series. Doctor Selar, who we don't see, gets name-dropped more than Nurse Ogawa, who is an actual recurring character! But I suppose it makes sense to have another "doctor" we hear about; it makes sense that Crusher would not be the only "doctor" on a ship with 1000 people, 24/7.

anyone know what happened to clone Kahless after this, i kinda want to know what happened to him

It's a fake! Plain and simple. I can't believe Gowron went along with that arrangement. Other than that a decent Klingon episode.

Short Kahless does not bring the same vibes Yoda did when Luke sought out 'a great jedi warrior'

I dunno. Worf being okay with an inspiring lie for his people? Worf seems too honest and honorable. And he was dedicated to the real Kahless (as he understood him). Speaking of Ron Moore he was a fan of the TOS Klingons, especially the first one (Kor). As far as you guys loving TNG Klingons but not TOS Klingons, y’all should rewatch a few TOS Klingons episodes like “Erramd of Mercy”. I think John Colocos (sp) as Kor set the bar. Tribbles was a fun Klingon episode as well. The last one with evil Chekhov…well, not the best but still Trek.

I know the actor’s stature isn’t huge, but I really his voice. He’s actually the narrator from the 90’s Outer Limits series. There’s also a sequel Kahless audiobook on YouTube he voiced. It doesn’t spoil any future events, it’s just adapted from a paperback at came out around the time.

It’s funny you mention making a little Klingon mini series out of those episodes. They’ve been released that way a few times on DVD because of how solid it is.

God, I love Worf. Also, how did Kahless II know about Worf's childhood vision? Did I miss something there?

I'm an atheist but I still love putting myself in Worf's boots every time. Klingon Jesus validating "Son of Mogh" just gets the waterworks flowing for me for some strange reason 😭😭😭

I’m guessing that Worf must have shared his vision of Kahless as a youth with the clerics at Boreth for the clone to know that and share it with Worf.

Klingon episodes are, absolutely, at minimum, a banger episode. And most are better. I mean, there will be a point where Klingon episodes will receive a CONSTANT S from me. This one is an A that could be an S were it not for the general quality of this season. I am resolved to give AT MOST, three S rankings in a season, and I have already given two. I will struggle to give three S ratings in Season 7, but so be it. At least DS9 will be heading into better territory, although I don't really count the show as beginning until Season 3.

For the guy who asked about the idea of if Jesus returned by scientific means, there is an excellent graphic novel with this premise called "Punk Rock Jesus" you may want to check out.

But again, he's NOT the myth. He was just "some random guy who united the empire and had a lot of wise teachings. It seem s to me the fact that he didnt' "look the part" was very much intentional, just like him losing to Gowron.

Don't get the dislike of time jumps. That means every episode can only take place in a short time frame. What's wrong with an episodic story that takes place over a longer period of time? If there was an episode about a regular "redshirt" aboard the Enterprise, and it depicted a year in the life of, and you saw hi reactions to different major things that had happened over that season or how he experienced those things, would you have a problem? Limiting the time frame limits the types of stories a show can tell and I don't see why that's neccessary. Especially if you want to buy into the reality of the fictional world. One would assume there's a lot of "business as usual" stuff that constitutes the majority of what the Enterprise does, and the interesting events while frequent for the flagship are not the norm. This holds true for lot of fictional world premises. In Law and order, wouldn't most cases be of the relativelty mundane and straight forward sort instead of the twists and complexity of the ones show? Is it believable the the Enterprise alone has someting unusual happen on every mission? Presumably a lot of starfleet missions like surveying stars or delivering supplies are pretty routine and go off without a hitch. This would have to be the case for the Federation to function. For TNG, we can make up devices like "this is because Q is testing the Enterprise" or other explanations that align our characters with interesting events more then would happen by chance. But still, there must be a lot of boring stuff we don't see where nothing goes wrong or unusual.

The Vulcan is NOT on board, she's the head of the Vulcan Sciencd academy. She's mostly there. Beverly gathered the pre-eminent warp field scientists to introduce them to the Ferengi scientists' ideas. You seem to be confusing her with a different Vulcan scientist. That wasn't the same character or actor. Suspicions was the only appearance of the character or actor.

It does bother me A LITTLE that they don't remember that Kahless appears in TOS, Season 3's "The Savage Curtain". Isn't just mentioned, he's actually in it. KIRK LITERALLY FIGHTS HIM LOL

It's amazing to me that TNG directors didn't do all they could do to hide Michael Dorn's lazy eye. It couldn't be more distracting and just makes the character look goofy AF🤪 🤪🤪.

Him not being big though. He lived 1500 years ago. Maybe food was rare at the time. Also plenty of "great warriors" historically weren't big guys (although they weren't primarily usually hand to hand warriors more Generals).

I really like the scene where Picard and Gowron were talking in the corridor. They seemed fairly equal there, and it was a nice dynamic.

I think Data was the standout in this episode

I'm sure Worf would prefer to let his hair down, but he is an officer in Star Fleet. Standards and regulations probably would require him to keep it cut short or tied back.

"They're only saying it's a clone as a test of faith."

Kern is Worf's brother

I think the Data scenes are a callback to the discussions Data had with Worf about visions. There IS some established conversational history there so its not like Data just pops out of the blue and says this. In the context of the episode alone, sure, but this episode directly references and was a sort of sequel to the previous two parter. You guys look at television in a very episodic way, but I like that they trust the viewer to say "ok, remember Data and Worf were talking about "spiritual matters" before. Worf gave Data guidance (and thus was helped himself) so it makes sense Data would want to continue with that topic and provide his own relevant experience for Worf.

I thought it was always personal and emotional. Worf is presented with all kinds of conflicting challenges. I think it's played off subtly which is true to Worf's character, but all of this is resounding throughout the episode. His personal understanding of the corruption of the empire in forms this crisis, and Kahless is not just a personal God but very much a god of the Klingon people and the empire. All those considerations are there, they are just done subtly instead of with direct exposition.

Worf's belief comes only after the DNA test is confirmed and doesn't last long, till Kahless loses to Gowron. Worf was having a complex spiritual crisis throughout. He wanted to believe and was open to the possibility but was skeptical. I love how it bridged from the previous Worf story with Worf realizing he wasn't sure he actually believed what he was teaching them. Keep in mind, Worf's version of what it means to be Klingon doesn't come from actual experience living in Klingon. he's exposed to a more idealized form of the culture from what he's studied, but consistently finds actual Klingon society to be fall short of the mythologized propagandistic version of the culture. He sees the "corruptio and decadence" of the Klingon people that was always probably there. it would be like someone getting their idea of American values by readng world war 2 propaganda comics, or of Christianity through church approved educational cartoons and experiencing the reality very differently. I think the idea "what if this is what the prophecy meant?" is more interesting and should be explored. I find it an interesting idea to contemplate if sacred texts were real, but they were meant to be understood by the people of the time as well as future people, so the literalism is way off. The supernatural is incoherent because even if supernatural things existed, they would have rules and causes and etc, so its really just unknown mechanisms. For example, it's believed that many people who had visions where they converted were caused from epileptic seizures in the temporal lobe which is associated with religious experiences. People might say "see, there not real visions." But maybe those seizures are the means through which divine visions are transmited. DS9 obviously explores this idea. But it's interesting here. Who really is to say that a clone isn't the means by which Kahless returns? It would have been cool to add that angle, like maybe towards the end Worf reads a prophecy from the texts about Kahless' return and realizes it COULd be interpreted to mean what happened and there could even be a reference to a figure who could be Worf. By the way, it could be interpreted that Kahless knowing worf;s vision from when he was a child meant maybe he was Kahless, but just as or more likely, it was there because Worf talked with the monks about his experiences, and as Gowron says they really wanted Worf to believe so they programmed in knowledge of something Worf had told them.

Kind of brilliant to have the person you might think is the least spiritual helps Worf. Such a great Data moment hidden in a Worf episode!

I just love the fact that the entire political structure of the Klingon Empire was overhauled based on an idea Word just came up with on his own. Even before that, he killed Gowron's rival. Worf is basically running the empire from the Enterprise.

There is an excellent comic SPOILERS for a great comic you should read and not read the spoilers where someone is killing off al the god like beings and it turns out to Be the Klingons lead by Kahless who stole a weapon from the Prophets and had "The Shapers", beings who live on a planet in the territory of the Klingon empire and whose privacy is protected by them but who are not subjects make a weapon to use it. United the Kahless religion with the "Klingons killed our Gods." Kahless does what he is programmed to do, fulfill the role of Kahless, and he leads a new sort of cult where the Klingons are going to kill all gods as the Klingons are their own gods. Alexander joins the cult and the whole thing is great. The best part though is the initial research of what's going on, featuring gods from the Prophets to the Q to the Crystalline entities, Gary who existed in some form of Where No Man Has Gone Before. It involves multiple series Characters and the Emissary who has divine knowledge from the Prophets but has it fade the longer he's outside of the Celestial Temple. Can't say too much more without spoilers but also features Scotty, Lore, Ro Laren and interesting new characters. Highly recommended. I believe it was called "Countdown to Day of Blood" with the "Day of Blood" series being the climax. Afterwards there is continuation of story lines but I only read some of that. A cool thing is it fills in some gaps in what happened to characters from post TNG to Picard.

I disagree with Alex. Even with the Klingon politics, Worf' faith, his skepticism, acceptance, wanting to believe, understanding are a fundamental thread throughout the episode

So this is something from the preserver episode I forgot to mention- in STO, the First Federation was actually the Preserves. They had evolved to energy beings and the forms they took in that were differnt forms they could assume. The whole interaction was a sort of a text/determining point for Kirk as they were aware of different timelines and dimensions. They were also giving the federation some tech for their own reasons. The different versions of Earth and human type humanoids were also preserver experiments. When we hear things like "The rigelians are a vulcan offshoot" or the idea the Catians were related to the Kzinit. they often developed different versions of species on different planets. So they didn't just seed life, they were actively involved in developing humaniod life across the galazy. I considered going back and posting this in "Th Chase" but no one would have read it. I got to thinking about it since the history of the Klingons and Hurq is outlined there. STO has deep mythology and it really fills in the world, as every species and race encountered i star trek exists and has a background and "where are they now" in a comprehensive narrative. I believe the attitude towards STO was it was canon unless contradicted by the show, and various different off shoe canons like the books, comics, games, etc can be seen as different timelines/universes in the same general multiverse.

Dose anybody remember that the first appearance of Kahless was in TOS The Savage Currian? He was portrade as an evil historical figure. That's one heck of a retcon.

You can't truly appreciate Worf's long hair without having his ponytail some of the time.

I don't think it's implied that Worf told Picard the true story of the Klingons from "Birthright". He claimed that they were survivors from a crashed ship, and I think he's sticking with that, but saying that they crashed when they were young and didn't know much about Klingon ways.

Like others, I am unimpressed by the casting of Kahless. They needed to find someone who was damn near 7 foot tall. Obviously he also needs to be able to act, but this guy gave vibes of the beer bellied uncle who likes to roughhouse every now and then. Sure, klingons obviously embellish their stories. Kahless obviously didn't cry the billions of cubic metres of tears necessary to cause a sea to flood it's shores, or forge a metal sword out of molten rock with his bare hands that would have been burned off. There's probably SOME basis to the stories, but the exact account given is bullshit. Still, Kahless was at least impactful and memorable enough that he's the most famous klingon that ever lived. I don't see that reflected in the casting here. Still, I do like the exploration of the subject of faith, so I give it a B. Always fun to see Gowron show up.

Alan Oppenheimer (yes, that is his name) is one of those journeyman actors who was in dozens of different TV shows, including providing the voice of Skeletor for the He-Man and Masters of the Universe cartoon show. I remember him most as playing Dr. Rudy Wells on The Six Million Dollar Man for a couple of seasons.

The name of the Klingon played by Tony Todd was KURN!! Sorry had a Wrath Of Kahn flashback.

Fully agree that long locks Worf looks like some mythical holy warrior, especially out of uniform. Absolutely feels like the chosen one who pops in to right the ship (the empire). Then he goes back to his day job, and maybe parental duties. Maybe. Also Gowron's robe is the ceremonial robe of the Chancellor. Same look and same medals that K'mpec had, but man is it more impressive on him. Any time we can develop the politics/religion/culture of a Trek race feels like the best kind of world building, imho.

Imagine they cast Arnold as Kahless, realize he wouldn't be able to do the long dialog scenes well, and dub over him for the whole episode lol

For Klingon episodes you should change your name to Targ Audience.

Great use of close ups by Winrich Kolbe. Never noticed before how many are in this episode. Shows up some of the makeup a little bit, but great stuff overall. B+

They should do a Khaless movie with Gerard Butler. We are Klingons! Worf is the real second coming! 😉 maybe have Micheal Dorn play Khaless.

So unimpressed with the casting and character of Fake-Kahless. I know the dudes a clone, but at least give the guy some height to be worthy of the role he plays in Klingon society.

I always forget how much I like this one. Always find it funny - Is Worf the most important Klingon ever? He just makes sweeping changes to the Empire and then leaves them to work it out after.

Alexander is probably just off being pampered by Auntie Troy, staying up late every night and spending lots of time in the holodeck.

Every time you see ol' crazy eyes, you know you're in for a treat.