UNCUT - Frame of Mind (TNG S6E21) | Star Trek Journey 266
Comments (85)
This is another one of those episodes that I love more and more every time I see it. And it means I can finally share one of three: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E91QDlovUGc Do not search for others, or you will receive spoilers but this is the least of the three. :)
Oooh I can’t wait until they hear the Picard song. My wife and I had TNG Dark Materia songs back in the day on our iPods, listening to them all the time. It fueled my hunger for Trek when no one I knew watched or loved it like us fans.
Weird, I didn't get an email notification of this going up, wonder what happened?
I knew you’d love this one! As a kid I didn’t like it as it freaked me out too much, as an adult I love it!
Was this just released now? Just turned up in my feed now
This episode was much better with this re-watch. I don’t remember much of why I didn’t like it back in 1993, but my life was crazy busy then with college, work, and being engaged and getting ready to get married. I wasn’t looking forward to watching this again but I am committed to watching all of these with you guys. I’m happy to say I enjoyed it much more this time.
Yeah rewatching these with them really makes me watch them with a new heart.
While this isn't directly related to the episode, thinking about Riker's charcter got me thinking. At some point you guys should do a version of the classic "Kirk vs Picard" debate, who is the better captain. Maybe one version after TNG and another revisiting it after "Picard" far ahead. Interesting to think at the time of TNG, the consensus was that Kirk was better and people who thought Picard was better were in the minority. There is even a 90s simpson joke about this debate. I feel like as time has gone on, appreciation for Picard has increased. I wonder if that's because at the time of TNG, many of the sterotypical "nerd" fans of trek saw Kirk as more of a fantasy fulfillment figure. That seems to be somewhat the case with Roddenberry himself's idea of Kirk. This debate went along with the debate of "Is the Prime Directive actually a good moral principle?" You can still see this debated, but for those who think its not, there is a strong preference for Kirk. it's interesting how since then, as the obviousness of Amerian values being the "right thing" and culture has changed from the somewhat masculine fantasy of Kirk, Picard has been better appreciated. Kirk gets the girl, Picard is heroic because he resists the temptation (both in The Perfect Mate and Lessons) Anyway, would be interesting to hear you guys revist this debate as well as the prime directive debate and add your take on it. An additional note, "The Prime Directive" in TOS was originally conceived less as a obviously right moral principle then a plot device to make the missions harder for the TOS crew where they couldnt just use their overwhelming tech to fix things. Of course Kirk always found reasons why the PD didn't apply, and Roddenberry DID have an anti-colonialist, anti-imperialist ethos, but it becomes a much bigger deal in TNG and a much bigger moral principle for Picard. This was a different time, when the idea of not imposing your values on other cultures was a different thing. When I was younger, I thought the PD was stupid. As I've gotten older, i think it IS a wise policy, especially when dealing with aliens. However, the times it looks stupid are the times when its taken literally or as a "this was gods will we cant interfere with" thing that what it actually should be. The example of this is when a primitive planet faces destruction, and its implied that using tech to stop their destruction is a violation. That is taking the PD to a stupidly literal place- but the idea of solving a problem by introducing a tech that will have radical unpredictable consequences for the society or fundamentally change in some way makes more sense. The ideas is weakened that we mostly see "Planet of the Hats" scenarios where the aliens are a clear stand in for some human culture, but in an actual alien society this is even more clear. There's a story called "Three Worlds Collide" by Elizier Yudowsky that illustrates this idea well, when humans meet two other alien cultures with radically different values because of their evolution, and the most advanced species suggests modifying all three to compromise on values, which becomes an option that the humans clearly find unacceptable (when they meet the first species, someone there suggsest there values are unacceptable, and we are maybe likely to agree, till we meet the third species and find that our human values are unaccpetable to them in the sense we allow for the possibility of pain and suffering and not being able to.... well, read the story. There is a tidbit where one aspect of human values has changed in a way thats offensive and shocking to moern readers, which is the point but is one element that probably makes the story more controversial then it should be and would probably be better left out. If people are having trouble finding it via google I could post a link.
What is cool considering that the director did a great job after being away so long... is that because he (Riker) is in every scene, and there are no exterior shots of the enterprise, you as the audience is mislead that everything layer after layer is real... but on a rewatch you see that EVERYTHING is told from Riker's mind. Also, using the play as conceit, Riker thematically is experiencing "the actor's nightmare."
On the rewatch I noticed that Riker did give Troi a brief kiss at the end of the 10-forward-talk-scene. Which makes sense, since it only happens in his head driven by his subconscious...
They have great affection for each other, even though they're no longer dating, and are seen to kiss. Such as in "Ménage à Troi".
Unfortunately, I found myself bored with this episode. Maybe I wasn’t in the right frame of mind. But also we’ve seen this kind of story SO many times. Both in and outside of TNG. Not the fault of the show but the thrill is gone. I know he’s not crazy. I know he’ll get back to his crew. No stakes. I was just waiting for the mystery to be solved. 🤷🏾♀️
I understand in terms of being done with the trope of the unreliable narrator and "its all in his head" I mentioned I found Shutter Island disappointing because of the time setting and the idea that the investigator stumbled onto some time of MKULTRA experiments and the doctors were trying to drug him and make him look crazy so they could coverup and keep him there was much more interesting then the rather unbelievable actual reveal. SPOILER This is also felt about M Symalan's movie with the monsters in the woods. Going into it, I thought "what time is this". No one had guns and when they said "we dont believe in guns" I immediately realized "ok, this is totally unrealistic for a historical frontier or colonial town to not have guns, is this modern people and the whole thing is a ruse?" Figuring that out from the beginning, I was hoping that wasn't it. And there were some hints that that wasn't what was going on. But then it was. On the other hand, uses of the trope can be effective, which I think it is here where we are kept so off balance. King used this trope several times- but it works because of his execution. SPOILER For example in Secret Garden or whatever, it occurs to the protagonist that this might be going on, but he sees things that counteract this. It's not a sudden reveal, but rather the protagonist starts to realize whats going on as we do, and the psychological elements and story work. My problem withthe trope is its overused, and the "twist" can take the place of actual interesting story, like when this is used as a way to reveal the psyche of the unreliable narrator.
Did you notice Chief O'Brien beamed up Riker an the rescue team? Another clue.
no, did he say "O'brien"? O'Brien wasnt in this episode, was it a line of dialogue I missed?
Almost every TNG fan I know got into the show watching it in syndication out of order. Unless you were on board from Encounter at Fairpoint there was no other way to do so.
right. I got into in the seventh season and watched my friend's tapes of the previous seasons. Watching this way, the quality of individual season is less noticeable. Season 1 and two stand out but afterwards its hard to place an episode inside a season if youre watching out of order. It was interesting to see that season 5 had a weak stretch. I didn't realize this because they tend to show the less good episodes less in syndication. Also, having seen those when they were younger, I wasn't looking at them in the critical way Alex and Josh were, but emersed in the universe, so even something like "Imaginary Friend" intrigued me. And there are many epsiodes I enjoyed, like "True Q", "The Chase" or "Captain's Holiday" that I wasn't seeing through the aware lens of Josh and Alex. Obviously those things had subconcsious effect, but watching this originally when I was younger and didnt have such an awareness of tropes and such was a different experience. TV in the 90s where you didnt have the internet to hyper analyze everything was a very different experience, and TNG was using stories that were not as much established tropes as they would later become just because TV was different, and there weren't as many formats or alternatives.
Riker literally broke the fourth wall... with a phaser.
On your talking about why nobody watches TV any more - think about what you know about human history in Star Trek Cannon - History diverged from the real world sometime in the 70s or 80s (remember Khan and the Eugenics Wars happened in the 90s) and then you had World War 3 and the Post Atomic horror (referenced in Encounter at Farpoint) where nuclear war had wiped out a large proportion of humanity and caused the collapse of most of the nation states on Earth. So a large chunk of 20th/21st century popular culture never happened in the Star Trek universe, or was lost by the near total collapse of civilsation. Fans have often used this as an 'in universe' explanation for why characters only ever seem to reference classical music or Shakespeare and never anything more contemporary
Wow that’s an excellent point I never considered!
watching this for the first time at 12, it really freaked me out, and it took me a long time to watch it again, but I've come to appreciate it much more as an adult, it truly is an amazing mindfuck of an episode.
I knew you guys would probably like this one. For me, I find it boring and my daughter (she's 14) hates it. Definitely an E for her. She would be thrilled never to watch this one again.
It's pretty trippy, and one of the few that I had to really watch more than once to truly "get" and I don't like watching it because there are enough crazy people in the world to deal with as it is. But it is a really well done episode.
The first 2 minutes and 3 seconds of this episode are a single camera shot, a really excellent shot with different angles and close ups
I was really excited for TA to see this one, and they did not disappoint. This is one of my favorites, even after rewatching it probably 20-30 times
Yeah it holds up really well on rewatches
My favorite Riker episode. It actually took me several watches before I fully realized that, except for the last few minutes in sick bay and 10 forward, the entire episode happened in Riker’s head.
Reminds me a bit of Remember Me, it's not the whole episode but a good chunk of it is all a creation from Beverly's mind.
S for standing ovation. Well, sitting ovation but still. Is this the only time you've both clapped at the end of an episode? Deserves it, no doubt.
Josh's face of sheer disbelief when Riker was shattering all the layers was priceless
Unlike the guys this is the type of Trek that i would watch once but wouldnt go back to it, howeer I would go back and rewatch Darmok, to me that resonates more than this episode which feels kinda hollow to me
Is that because there isn't a deeper theme/message and mostly about the trippiness?
I actually found Shutter Island disappointing because it hinted at some mystery based on the time with MKULTRA which was a real thing and instead goes a much.... stupide route that insults the audeince's intelligence. (SPOILERS) Is it really believable a doctor would give a delusional murderer free range of the facilities and ask the staff and patients to play into his delusions because of some arbitrary timeline where he has to be tried? It would have been so much more interesting if there were nefarious experiments going on and got too close and they try to convinve people and him hes insane. The "twist" felt like such an unrealistically contrived copout. This doesn't, it predates shutter island but the whole thing being a psychological defense his mind was experiencing with the probe drawing on recent real experiences in a dream like logic was awesome and satisfying because you can see recurring elements of the mystery throughout the experience that are clues to what actually happened/is happening.
Yeah I appreciate Brannon Braga's type of storytelling but this is not my type of story either and to be honest this felt like Future Imperfect to me.
I really enjoyed Future Imperfect.
Rewatching it now, I can admire how well made it is (directing, acting) but I still just don't like this type of story at all. I don't want to feel lost in what is or isn't "real" in this way. I can see why others would love it, but it just ain't it for me.
It helps that there are very few shots of the Enterprise flying by. Since it’s all in his head, we wouldn’t see the ship from the outside
its like mulholland drive, showing a state constructed of recent memories to reveal the nature of the dreamer
Another...unexpectedly positive reaction. Ok then. :)
You didn't expect them to like this one? It's right up their alley, zero doubt they'd love a psychological horror with great camera work, direction and overall execution.
I believe lobotomies were based on earlier traditions of trepanation, or drilling a hole in the skull to release spirit. The practice got some psedou-scientific legitimacy because it could "calm" the most restless of patients by making them into managable zombies.
They should watch One Flew Over the Cuckoos's Nest
50:00 Yes, Josh. That is correct. It's when he bumps into the alien by the turbolift that's the first clue.
16:26 The grin on Alex's face...
Were there plays in the original series? “Conscience of the King”! Anton Karidian!
Riker was also kidnapped in First Contact where the alien lady wanted to have sex with him in the hospital. But in Future Imperfect and Schisms he is not aware what is going on, similar to this one.
He wasn't kidnapped, he was injured and taken to the hospital
This one and "The Mind's Eye" are often confused in my head. haha!
For me, the confusion is “Schisms”, the other recent Riker outing
This is objectively an excellent episode, but I always hated how it made me feel
True art
Speaking of The Big Goodbye, did you recognise Dr Cyrus in this episode?? He played the historian Whalen
Actual interesting bit of trivia. I've been into Star Trek for twenty years and didn't know this.
Before i even begin watching i predict you'll both love this. You've both wanted more Riker. S
i think so too.
One of my favorites, so glad you guys loved it! A tour de force for Jonathan Frakes.
I'm so glad you guys loved this one. It is probably in my top five favorite Star Trek episodes of all time... I remember watching it when it first aired and being completely blown away. I never get tired of re-watching it.
Same here
You'll probably never watch Doctor Who, but there's a Series 5 episode sort of like this. I won't say any more, just in case.
You mentioned a lot of good eps to show someone to get them into the show. Civil liberties episodes like MoaM or Drumhead are always good picks, The Defector works well because James Sloyan does a fantastic job and you can transpose his story onto anyone who had to leave everything they ever knew to try and stop a war. Ano0ther one that I think is a great choice is The Wounded. Doesn't matter it's a bunch of aliens with spoon foreheads, the story still works, and that 10 forward scene.... I just noticed on this watch through that in the sickbay scene just before he shoots himself, Crusher says "it's like someone's trying to access his long term memory". Not "was", she says it in the present tense. Very blink and you miss it clue that he still hasn't escaped. I remember Alex saying Shutter Island was his favourite film a while back, and ever since I saw that I've seen the parallels between the 2 stories. Not exact of course, but I would have been shocked if this wasn't a hit because of that. It's a great mind fuck episode with a ton of layers. Not quite an S for me, but I give it an A for Acting!! Great to see Frakes get something to sink his teeth into.
Awesome catch!
TOS: The Conscience of the King. Star Trek has a long history of stage plays being a thing.
I thought of that when they asked if TOS watched plays.
It's wild that in several interviews Jonathan Frakes has said that he doesn't think he's a particularly good actor. He said in one interview that "i was fine on TNG but not even in the top 3 of actors on the show." Paraphrasing just a little bit.
I don’t think you can fault any of them to be honest, they all set the bar so ridiculously high it’s hard to pick a favourite
Revisit Star Trek TOS episode "Conscience of the King"; Kodos the Executioner for stage plays on the Enterprise.
About time Riker/Frakes got some good screen time. Have you guys every seen One Flew Over the Cuckcoo's Nest?
Notice how Marina Sirtis has now completely dropped her "Betazoid" accent?
Good point
I think I remember thinking this was interesting but not a wow that needs to be watched again. I love the scam being pulled and how he is living in , I don't remember exactly, a drug induced reality perhaps as opposed to a full on scam of actors pulling a fast one, but towards the end it started to get a little tedious because nothing really happened because they were doing that. I don't even remember why they did this, but it seems like the goal was to do it rather than doing it as part of a larger goal. I don't really remember so could be wrong. Still, interesting but I recall after a while thinking "okay, I get it, now lets go to the next level of the plan". It needed maybe a part 2 where Riker is sent back to the ship assuming everyone was his imagination and he was out to stop these baddies even if it means blowing up the ship to do so. Something.
Enjoyed this. You reacted almost exactly the way I did when I first saw it.
I love the fact that at the opening of the episode, Frakes was acting like an amateur actor trying to be professional. There's nuance in that. That's why he hammed it up.... or otherwise missed the mark. Not terribly..... but... like a relatively okay amateur actor. Ironically, that's real professionalism.... and demonstrates how strong an actor Frakes is.
Exactly. To pull off that kind of subtlety on demand is remarkable talent.
Speaking of the big goodbye, Riker’s doctor played Waylon season 1
I simply can't rewatch this episode. Frakes acts TOO well in this episode, to the point where I feel his emotions so strongly, that it makes me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. It's disturbing to me. It's one of my least favorite episodes in the series for this reason, but I can't fault the episode in any way for that. I believe the fact that I feel so strongly disturbed by it means that they achieved what they set out to accomplish. :)
Absolutely! Pure horror.
Love this episode. Back when the show was airing, my family used to tape every episode, and somehow we missed seeing this one until one day we discovered that we'd recorded it at the end of a tape that we thought was already full. I have a great memory of watching it for the first time, in suspense not only about what was happening in the story, but also that the episode wouldn't get cut off by the end of the tape before we found out what was going on!
One of my favorites.
Fight club is still a masterpiece every time I watch it even though I know the twist
I LOOOVE this episode. One of my TNG favorites.\
Oh always thought the writers wanted Riker to suffer! He’s such a dick in Chain of Command they decide to torture him here to balance it 🤪 Love this episode it’s creative, it’s creepy, for a show in its 6th season it’s surprising by how fresh TNG felt
God I love this episode lol. I’ve been waiting to post this for a very long time too and it’s finally come. Thank you DarkMateria: https://youtu.be/hSF48WK6SFY?si=bP0bXMeCiu8ipAXm
I've been waiting a long time for this episode. Can't wait to get home to watch you guys and this. There's a few of my favorite TV shows that stole this idea... make the main character think they're crazy... Love it! Top 5 TNG and possibly top 10 in all Trek.
I like this episode just fine. I like to poke fun a Frakes’ acting abilities 😆 but this might be one of his best performances.
I just adore the fact that he gets to be the character that gets to yell at people: he literally gets to voice “WHAT THE HELL?!?” every few episodes, as Picard looks at the same viewscreen to display some sort of, what I’ll call, ‘diplomatic confusion.’