UNCUT - Q-Less (DS9 S1E7) | Star Trek Journey 252

I loved this episode. I am happy with episodes that are just a bit of fun. There was plenty of character content to keep me interested. I sometimes think that fans try and have a 'correct' opinion and lie like a form of virtue signalling when it comes to tv and movies. Like pretending the phantom menace isn't amazing when it is.

DS9 sex scoreboard catch up version Not sure about this one. Does umlocks (or whatever it is spelled) count as BJ =? If so then yes score. After all Farenghi do what I do when …. You know that happens. Score it!! But it will count when the lobes are fully finished. The sex score board Chief 1 Keiko 1 Quark +1 new Vash 2 +1 new Q ? We are guessing Vash and Q did the immortal but not in this ep so no count. Bashir. Did he pull that chick from the start. We think maybe but if they had shown anything with her after we could count it. We want to.

I think people don't like this episode because they are looking at it in retrospect with the awareness of how good this show eventually becomes. Compared to what's coming, this episode is not good in the least. But when it first came out, I think I liked it quite a lot.

When the Peter Pipers of Paramount picked the crew of DS9 the Peter Pipers picked a plethora of really plucky people pleasers!

My thing about Sisko decking Q is this: It was the right move. Sisko wasn't thinking about whether or not it was the right move in the moment, but it was definitely the right move. I have *always* been critical of Picard in Q-Who. When the nigh omnipotent space trickster tells you in no uncertain terms that you are not ready to deal with what's out there, you don't argue the point out of an unearned sense of self-righteousness. It's neither an argument you need to win nor one you need them to prove. Just take the L and move on. But Picard can't. Sisko can. "Humans are boring and violent" and Sisko answers back with boring violence. Q problem solved. No weird tests or bizarre scenarios for the entire rest of the episode. No tricks. Just the nigh omnipotent being taunting because you've already proven that interfering won't be any fun for him.

"the things you own end up owning you" I am owned by many things

@53:40 "Picard and Q are best buddies." I gotta tell ya, you wouldn't believe the copious amounts of Q/Picard slash fic out there. 😂

This episode is okay. Not great. Seems a waste of Q.

Okay no I'm not a big fan of this one, but I also agree its not THAT bad, and the Q stuff is good. Yes, especially the old timey boxy scene and Sisko punching Q, as well as the great continuity with Chief and Vaash and Q. Oh and Q and Quark. So yes, its got plenty of bright spots.

I wonder if this was filmed close to the pilot. I never noticed this before, but some of the characters from the way they act to the makeup (especially with Quark and Odo) alternates back and forth in season 1 to looking and feeling like the pilot, then improved to the direction it will eventually take, then back again. I feel as if this whole season was filmed out of order?

I think this episode is... fine, but it just doesn't do much for me. It feels like there's hidden potential here that never really manifests. Q feels like a tag-along because he's really just there for Vash, not to interact with our crew. And speaking of the crew, we're so early into the show that it's not as if we have a great feel for who these people are yet, so there's not as much to enjoy when it comes to seeing them in scenes with Q, either, because they're not really fleshed out.

one thing I am a little worried about is if they don't care for Bajorans and Cardassians- the relationship between Bajor and their former occupier Cardassia is a major focus of the show; and this show is fundamentally different from TNG in that we get much deeper dives into various worlds and species. If you don't like probing that and you greatly prefer "planet of the hats" TOS and TNG style treatment, Ds9's style, where it really tries to examine alien cultures and their complex relationship with each other which I think is a major feature of the show, Ds9 may not appeal because it has a very different feel then TOS or TNG where people feel long term consequences of things. I'd really say that's primarily why people don't like season 1 as much, there were too many episodes trying to capitalize on TNG's popularity and style versus just letting it be its own thing and this episode in particular definitely has that feel for whatever reason. if the deep lore of trek isn't inherently appealing to you, you may not get why people love this show as much as they do.

My guess is the dislike comes from this not really feeling very "Ds9" and most people are kind of waiting for the show to get really good. At this stage there was definitely pure promotional stuff going on whereas probably a lot of people feel DS9 really doesn't need that. The jokes you guys found funny can feel maybe obvious and formulaic to some, especially as these characters, particularly Dax and Bashir, haven't really been established yet. And maybe a sense that Sisko was trying to hard here to differentiate himself from Picard, he's much more then "angry black man" as he sort of comes off here.

I've never really liked this episode but after seeing your discussion, I think you're right. It's a good Star Trek episode. However, IMHO it isn't a good DS9 episode. It relies too heavily on TNG, trying to pull TNG fans over. "Please watch our new show! We've got Q and Vash now!"

I think I just always felt that the actress who plays Vash was never right for the role. She just isn't.... sleazy enough to pull who Vash is supposed to be. That said, this is certainly better than her TNG appearances. But, I actually think she WAS right for Jean-Luc, she's a little too "nice" to be Vash, but I really don't think Picard would have fallen for the amoral Quark-style of person that she supposedly is.

Just getting to the discussion portion today. Didn't expect so many patrons to hate this one. I've always kind of liked it, and I liked it a lot more seeing it through your eyes. I'm not a Q fan in general, but I think this is one of the better uses of him and I agree that Vash works way better here than on TNG.

After watching all the other Q episode reactions and now seeing this one, I get the sense the fundamental difference here between Alex and Josh vs. most of the fans on these is that Alex and Josh seem to prefer the vaguely malevolent/sinister version of Q that we saw in very early TNG and which was essentially brought back for Q-Less whereas most of the fans seem to prefer the frenemy/anti-hero/comic relief version of Q that the character mostly evolved into during the run of TNG. Josh' comment about "what more do you want from a Q episode other than Q boxing in the moustache" is kindof insightful/interesting because I think that most of the people who don't really like this episode that much would probably say that that scene was one of the good parts that they did really like in this episode and that it is the reason they like most of the other Q episodes better because they have more of this kind of thing.

Not terrible not awesome. DS9 can and will do much better

"Do they know about Q? Picard probably told them, right?" I mean... yeah? All those Captain's, First Officer's, Chief Medical Officer's etc. logs are basically those characters filling out their reports to Starfleet. Sure, it's a quick and dirty narrative technique to dole out quick exposition, but in-universe, that's what that is, the characters reporting to Starfleet. Unless it's a personal log, at which point the characters are "Dear diary"ing.

I liked this one, and now I feel bad I never got around to adding my own Patron Take!

Go back and watch Encounter At Farpoint. O'Brien was there, though never named.

I don't know why it occurred to me while watching this reaction, since it's something I noticed you guys not understanding in a previous reaction: some of the "technobabble" on this show is just describing the physical layout of the station. If you look at a picture of Deep Space Nine, you can understand the terms "upper and lower pylons," "docking ring," and "central core," as descriptions of its layout. Might help understand what they're saying some of the time. Edit: Also, "habitat ring" and "crossover bridges."

Its an ok DS9 S1 episode. Story was meh but its still better than TNG season 1

People are way way overly negative on this. I don't get it. It's perfectly serviceable. I was a kid first time I saw it and I was floored when the gem turned into a space creature and flew back to the gamma quadrant. It was actually pretty good Star Trek. I get that people don't want Q being comedic. They want him to be malevolent and untrustworthy. Like a teacher who hates a student but secretly wants them to succeed...and thinks torturing them is helping them. They don't want him hamming it up in a boxing ring. I get it. But still.

I'm surprised everyone hates this episode, I don't particularly like it but I think it's okay. Really surprised by you guys liking the episode though

In my memory this always was the worst Q episode but I changed my mind. I still don‘t care for the plot and I still absolutely despise Vash but rewatching this episode made Me realize Q was way greater in this than I remembered him being. He was used for much more fun than for example in the absolute snooze fest that was True-Q. He was so good that I would change my personal grade from an E+ to a very generous C-.

It sounded like Josh was doing a captain's log at the beginning explaining why they hate Vash so much with the epic DS9 intro music playing in the background

It's understandable you guys are annoyed by the takes being negative, but I don't know what to do. Thus far DS9 S1 is doing what TNG S1 did: repeating the previous show with a new cast. We have knowledge of the future. We know the exact moment this show starts to cook (and what that dish tastes like). We are ruined.

The biggest twist ever, Vash is redeemed. Personally, I never felt very strongly about her either way, and this episode didn't change that for me. Don't hate her, don't love her. But I love Q and this is an extremely humorous episode with a solid final reveal of the artefact being a lifeform, and it makes sense it was draining power from the shuttle and then the station, it was feeding. And the station was being thrust towards the wormhole because that's where it wanted to go, back home, instinctually. Far from the best plot ever but that's decent story.

What I dislike most about this episode is I think it is one of a few episodes in DS9's first season that ultimately makes the DS9 crew look incompetent and inferior compared to the TNG crew. Not a good way to introduce them in my opinion. It's one of the reasons why it took me a while to warm up to DS9. How was that done here? From Q's perspective, this episode was basically Encounter at Farpoint all over again. The plot in Encounter at Farpoint was a test for the TNG crew to basically see if they were enlightened, or at least had potential for it. The test was just to see if they could figure out that the station was a lifeform since that would be a form of life completely alien to them. The TNG crew passed that test and impressed Q. The DS9 crew was given the same exact test with the gamma quadrant alien, and they failed miserably. They eventually figured out that the crystal was the problem, but they never figured out that it was a lifeform until it was halfway home. It was kind of a metaphor I guess showing that DS9 is not enlightened and is more like how humans are today. The crew on this station can't see the forest for the trees, and everyone else is so caught up with money that they can't see what is truly important, like their ignorance bringing the entire planet... I mean space station... to its doom. So Q just watches with amusement while the lower lifeforms do lower lifeform things while unknowingly damning themselves by getting hyper focused on single tracked things like amassing money. This is also shown with Sisko punching Q. Unlike Picard who would probably try to act more enlightened when provoked, Sisko has no problems going straight to violence. It shows that humans still have quite a bit to go, and maybe only the Enterprise is enlightened, not all of humanity. I think Q gets a greater appreciation for Picard after all of this. At the end he's like "screw this place, I'm going back to the Enterprise. They actually get it." The problem is, at the time, that was also the message that I felt the audience was getting. "We'll, this DS9 crew is clueless (hence, Q-Less), let's go back to TNG where they actually know what's going on and act like Roddenberry's humanity." My other problem with this episode is I don't like that Q basically acts like a narcissistic abusive ex-boyfriend the entire time. Again, I will never understand his fascination with Vash. It's pretty bad when Vash is the more likeable character of the two this episode. However, at least Vash wasn't a Mary Sue this time. That's my main problem with Captain's Holiday and Qpid. She's exhaulted way more than she deserves. Like they're trying to force the Picard/Vash chemistry by trying to convince the audience that she's amazing. At least that didn't happen this time so there's that.

I'm in the minority, i agree with you guys. My favourite Vash episode, in my opinion much better than a lot of previous Q episodes. I love the character moments, and general fun of it. I give it B.

Oh wow! Wish I would have gotten in on the Patreon Takes. I love this ep. An A in my book. For me this is about the banger dialog and deliveries. Vash has great chemistry with everyone and I love the story. I always saw the story as Q losing his connection and ability to finally see "Wonder" in the universe. Now he has to go back to a world where he rarely experiences surprise and curiosity. The writers use the opportunity to show how Sisko's leadership style is different (literally hands on). Siddig starts taking the training wheels off Julian. Lots of things I enjoy here and always look forward to this one when I rewatch the series.

The first Tomb Raider game came out in 1996. So, yes. Vash is kind of the original Lara Croft.

Well... When I first saw this episode I really loved it. After knowing the whole show, I automatically put it to the mediocre episodes in my mind, which is kind of unfair... Today I really liked it on the rewatch. Especially the pacing, the fact that O'Brien reacted as I would expect it and that Kira was the only one who seemed to be focused on the gravity problem without prejudice that it is one of Qs silly games. Conclusion: a good season 1 episode

I actually sort of liked this episode. Q was being Q, Vash was being Vash, Quark was being Quark, and the rest of the crew running around trying to figure things out. It all meshed together so well. Watching Sisko punch Q was worth it.

The quality of many early DS9 episodes reminds me of "The Vengeance Factor" or "The Hunted". Not TNG Season-1 bad, but slow and dull compared to the later stuff. Even the latter half of this season is SO much better than... this.

Vash is Q's reaction channel. Q was seeing the universe (that he's seen before) through Vash's eyes just like we're seeing Star Trek (that we've seen before) through your eyes. (Although, as I've mentioned, in other comments much of the early seasons of DS9 is unknown to me, including this episode.) I've seen every episode of every other Star Trek series at least once. (In some cases, like more than one I could name in Voyager, once was more than enough, but we'll talk about that when we get there.)

*Ben Affleck smoking* Glad you liked it more than I did.

I actually agree with Alex and Josh on this one, I've always liked this episode. Is it great, no, but it is a fun episode with a lot of good scenes and funny moments and I think Vash fits in here way better than she ever did on TNG. Also the Q and Sisko boxing match was amazing and really the only thing that brought it down for me was at the end I felt like it took a little too long to come to the realization that the "egg" that Vash brought on board the station was what was causing the problems but that doesn't bring it down that much, that was whatever. I am also someone who thinks this episode is much better than Q-pid and Captains Holiday. I'm glad you both liked this one also.

Q did not need crossover onto DS9, we didn’t need to see Vash again, but this is her best episode of the three she’s been in.

This episode isn't worth hating, it just had almost no story, and the little story it does have was telegraphed almost immediately. It's like a C-. I guess I watched it a few weeks ago, and outside of that rock and an image of a boxing match I don't think I remember much about this.

I still don't like this episode, but I did like watching you enjoy it :)

As much as I enjoy watching you guys also hate bad episodes like "Aquiel," the real joy is in finding ways to enjoy episodes I've always hated through you. I loathe "Q-Less". It's the way Q is so abusive to Vash, I think. It feels out of character and gross to me in a way I do not want from Q. But seeing you both enjoy the episode lifted it up and made it fun in a way it never has been before.

Just have this video available as copy-and-paste ready when anyone says you get an idea/opinion stuck in your head and then you can't get past it. If you can look at Vash with a fresh set of eyes I think that says quite a bit. I liked this one more on rewatch for sure. Not great, but decent.

This episode is worth it just for 'you hit me! Picard never hit me!'

Yeah, I was kind of negative about this one in my Patreon take...and I kind of stand by that. The bits with Quark and Bashir were better than I remembered though and I do love seeing Sisko pop Q in the jaw ("Picard never hit me." ) but it's a by-the-numbers plot and Vash is just uninteresting to me. But I am glad you guys got some enjoyment from it and if it rescued Vash from the Scrappy Heap for you guys, all the better.

I like this episode quite a bit. I pretty much agree with all of your takes on it. By far the best of Vash. Q is great. Most of the main cast get moments. And the storyline is just fine. The best line,” weren’t you one of the little people?”

Sorry, but Is there a YouTube link? I know the YouTube video is on this page but is there a link to watch it on YouTube’s site? YT won’t let me expand the video to full screen unless I’m actually watching it in their site and there’s always been a YouTube link in the previous reaction posts.

Well shit, I'm eating my words. Hell, I'm eating a five course meal of my words.

Like you guys, I enjoyed the characters in this more than the plot. Without going into specifics, the negativity around this episode and a few others in S1 might have to do with how top notch the show becomes. Its like being forced to watch Angel One after seeing Measure of a Man or Best of Both Worlds Part 1. I do remember thinking at the time how much use they were going to get out of Quark and by this episodes, was converted that a Ferengi main cast member was going to be hella fun.

Director: "Why are we throwing Dax into this last scene?" Producer: "Well, we did make her spend 17 hours in the make-up chair getting those spots hand-painted on."

I wouldn't worry about seeing the episode names for DS9. Very few of them tell you anything that you'd understand before seeing the episode.

I think it’s better than Q-Pid (I mean, almost everything is), but I have always found it extremely weak. Possibly because I was holding it up to TNG level expectations even in S1.

I will admit I was in the boat of expecting (or fearing) that y'all might hate this episode. I don't *hate* it myself, but I think it's indicative of an inherent problem in S1 of DS9: the show is afraid to try and make its own identity, and we get far too many instances of--yes--the crossovers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe that S2 is when DS9 *really* takes off, in terms of how confident the writers are in finding and exploring both the characters and the lor(rrrrrrrrrrr)e. All that being said, I boldly declare that the "best" is yet to come in this Season, but I'll leave y'all to your own opinions~

Finally got a comment posted. Patreon kept crashing and nuking my comment. Had to rewrite it but thankfully saved it before the second attempt.

I don't hate this episode like some people(probably give it a c-), but I was convinced you guys would absolutely hate it, so much so I joked about you quitting the show in my patron take. Still, even the episode's detractors tend to enjoy the "I'm not Picard" scene. I think Q is fine here, I think the plot is fine, but I actually like Vash here least of all. The thing is I can somewhat see Picard going for her even if they're a terrible match because she's not part of his crew which could complicate things. But here they basically turn her into a magnet for every man around and she's just not hot enough or interesting enough to justify it. Quark I can understand given he's motivated by profit, but Bashir was on a date with a pretty cute Bajoran lady who was clearly into him, and he just forgot about her for Vash??? Don't buy it. I do understand Q seeing the universe vicariously through through the eyes of someone who hadn't seen everything he had, but if that's the goal, surely a far less travelled companion would be even better. Perhaps someone who's never even been to space. They try to sell her as far more interesting than she deserves. I posted this in community messages, but the youtuber EC Henry did a video(spoilers, so don't watch) estimating the value of latinum by comparing the prices of items in the show vs what you'd reasonably expect them to cost in USD today. He made a compelling argument that a bar of latinum is worth about $2000. That means Q offered $2 billion for the last item in the auction, of which Quark's cut would be $440 million. No wonder he was excited.

I know Star Trek reuses props. I just hate that I recognized the alien egg. It was the meditation crystal that Riker gave Beata in Angel One.

‘I’m not picard’

Q was right about one thing…Picard and his people WOULD have solved all that technobabble hours before this motley bunch!

Really disappointed, Alex didn't do his Sisko log. The chain has been broken.

Well, damn, you guys made me regret my patron take!

I’m telling you…Patreon just knows these are the trash episodes and is rejecting them.

This one is ok, you guys are still great!

I guess the reveal was similar to Encounter at Farpoint?

IIIII'VE BEEN WAITIIIIING FOR THIS!!!

I don't hate this episode, I'm one of the ones that enjoy Captains Holiday, you guys called out my comment in that episode too (why you only read my comments in Vash episodes?) it doesn't stand out for me. But yes the last time Vash was on your screens Alex had a frown on his face the entire time. I just assumed that would continue. I am always pleasantly surprised when you guys like something I assume you will hate. Hey I hope you never hate a DS9 episode. I'm enjoying how much you guys seem to be enjoying my favorite Trek!

I wasn't crazy about this when it aired, it felt partly like they were trying to push how different Sisko was to Picard with how each responds to Q, and partly trying to get the TNG fans over to watch the new show that were turned off by it being "different." People like me wanted it to be as different as possible. Josh mentioned comparing it to their TNG s1 episode reactions vs our takes and I would say it is pretty apt. When you know how good DS9 can get, episodes like this feel extremely out of place, tonally.

So many of us who have been fans for decades have been programmed to think the first couple of seasons of TNG-era Trek are bad, and of course when we've seen what each series can and will be, we remember some of those earlier episodes a lot less fondly. Watching it through your eyes for the first time, it comes across better than I remember. I think I'd written this one off since I thought of Q as a TNG character and, "Oh shit, why do they have to force him over on this show!?"

Hhmmm I wonder why the punch hurt Q 🤔 🤭

"Paul doesn't do 2nd takes" - THIS is the shit I come here for, haha

I don’t recall too many episode title spoilers with DS9. It’s not going to be a big deal.

One of my favorite Q episodes ever. Cute space Indiana Jones doing her thing, witty dialouge, standard laughs from Quark. A+

Better than I remembered and probably better than his last TNG appearance and yeah Vash is a lot of fun with the DS9 crew and it’s good seeing Sisko interact with Q

I felt Q was different in this DS9 episode. The series itself spent a lot of time trying to demonstrate that it wasn't TNG, and this version of Q felt darker - more in keeping with his surroundings. He was, at times; really quite a nasty person in this episode. Last time I saw him like that was Q Who, where they first meet the Borg. He effectively got people killed / assimilated to prove a point to Picard.

Q has an epiphany, Not all humans are exactly like Picard

I've been waiting a long time for this one and of COURSE I'm stuck at work until 8pm. This is a total wildcard! I have no clue if you guys will love this or hate it. It's def Vash's best out of the three episodes (no hints if she does or does not return again!) Either way, this is gonna be a fun one to watch with you guys!