UNCUT - Babel (DS9 S1E5) | Star Trek Journey 248

C is a fair grade. The only highlight of this episode is Quak.

I loved your reaction when you both made the connection to the episode title.

Agree- this was a pretty lame one- when NEITHER of you is sayongh anything and you BIOTH are yawning that says it all...

Watching this episode while I'm home sick as a dog from something my kids gave me. That scene with Obrien sweating and unconscious is so relatable right now

The episode isn't called 'babble' it is 'Babel', as in the Tower of Babel. The Bible story where God punishes humanity for having the temerity to build a massive tower, by giving them different languages so they can't understand each other.

Kira isn't in Starfleet, but she is second in command. Just like in the real world, where in joint operations, a person from one military can be placed within the command structure of a different military.

Sisko=Commander. Commanding officer, DS9 Kia=Major, Bajoran Militia. 1st officer. Major is roughly equivalent to Lieutenant Commander. Dax=Lieutenant. Science Officer. Presumably 2nd officer. Bashir=Lieutenant. Chief Medical Officer. Odo=Bajoran militia, no stated rank. Chief of Security.

The Commander's Log during the credits had me laughing silly.

During this rewatch I realized Jaheel is the Dude’s Landlord

This would have been a great TOS episode Kirk would have gotten it, leaving Spock and McCoy to argue over how to resolve the situation. Each would interpret Kirk's babeling in a way to fit their own preconceived approaches, and neither would agree. In the end, Kirk gets fed up with neither figuring out what he's trying to tell them to do, so he 'steals' a shuttle craft and returns the kidnapped scientist to help McCoy over the finish line.

DS9 suffers from "Star Trek Season 1 disease." It gets better. And there are some great eps in s1 too

When DS9 first aired, a TV station that was over two hours away was the only one that carried it. Reception wasn’t great but I was able to watch it. When this episode aired it was storming and I got maybe twenty minutes into it before I gave up trying to watch it. I never rewatched it until now, so it’s basically like a new episode for me.

The virus is even worse when you realize it goes two ways: The infected can no longer read or understand speech, either. Dr. Bashir looks back at the computer screen after he starts to talk 'babel', and the words are all nonsense. That suggests that when anyone speaks to them, it sounds like nonsense as well.

I actually enjoyed this episode much more on a rewatch. Yeah, it's the typical virus episode, and it's an episode made before DS9 finds its unique groove, so this feels like it just as easily could have been a TNG episode. C is definitely fair, especially when compared to the series as a whole. But as far as episodes like that go, this one is done pretty well and has a lot of good moments in it. As others said, it's way better than something like The Naked Now. The Odo and Quark stuff is great, the O'Brian stuff is great, the idea of the virus is interesting, and I liked Kira abducting that guy off the planet out of desperation. It's not DS9's best by any means, but I think there are other episodes this season that are far worse. I actually enjoy watching this one over A Man Alone.

You missed the Biblical allusion —the story of the Tower of Babel is the story of humans trying to build a tower to heaven and god’s foiling them by making them speak different languages and making it impossible for them to cooperate. Both the “Journey to Babel” and “Babel” are alluding to this story. Second, you didn’t grasp the danger of aphasia. If people can’t communicate with each other, that’s basically the end of civilization, because people can’t cooperate easily if they can’t use language.

One wonders if episodes like this are less for the audience and more to test the performers, "Here's a typical Trek type plot where you'll have to act silly. Try to be convicing."

Paul Lynch did not actually direct 2 episodes back to back. 'Past Prologue' was *filmed* between 'A Man Alone' and 'Babel'.

Plot was generic, C is about right. Interesting premise with the virus being sabotage from the Bajoran side "fighting back" as it were, against their Cardassian oppressors. Though I'd go B- for the first 15 minutes with the Chief holding the station together. The real MVP.

Quark and Odo saved this episode for me. their stuff is great.

Working in liguistics, that they even considered doing an episode about Aphasia is really great. It is one of those few Season One eps before DS9 fully hits it's vibe though. Even so, there's always some excellent interaction between characters. :)

In case no one else has mentioned it, hours in a day is different on every planet lol And yes, Bajor is 26 hours in a day and there are indicators that there are more than 7 days in a week. As for O'Brien's position in the command structure, he enlisted (non-commissioned officer, abbreviated NCO) into Starfleet. That is different from an Officer (commissioned officer, abbreviated CO), who has college experience, whereas an enlisted individual has a GED or high school education. An enlisted person specializes in a particular skill during their service and an officer is groomed for leadership. O'Brien on DS9 has the rank of Senior Chief Petty Officer (SCPO), which is the second to highest rank he can achieve. The highest rank he can be promoted to is Master Chief Petty Officer (Like in Halo). This means that anyone within his command structure who is above his rank as an enlisted or is an officer (because any officer out ranks any enlisted) can give O'Brien orders to follow. Basically, all of the ranked characters, including Odo, can give O'Brien orders. But anyone who is enlisted (NCO) on DS9 he can give orders to because he is the highest NCO on DS9.

This is my second favourite of the Season. Personally I love virus episodes. This is the first of many DS9 episodes to get S from me, previously The Naked Time, The Deadly Years, and The Naked Now also get S from me.

This aphasia isnt it the same condition Bruce Willis suffers from?

Captain Jarheel was entertaining. Surmak needed a bit more screen time to make the story better

It is Babel, not babble, same word as Journey to Babel. It's a reference to the biblical story of the Tower of Babel

Was wondering if the DS9 theme reaction should go in the DS9 collection? In case people are interested later?

It's so much fun watching you guys enjoy DS9.

The Naked Now’s frozen ship set looked awesome though, and we got THAT scene with Tasha and Data “it never happened…”. There’s nothing remotely memorable about this twaddle. Impressive work on the sets though… the Jeffries tube under the replicator, those giant pistons Odo triggered to release the ship, the manholes in Ops that O’Brien keeps popping out of. We all knew no one important would die but it would have been fine if the focus was on something else. They could have done flashbacks to DS9 when it was occupied and the terrorists were planting the devices. Or had the inventor still alive and Kira has to go to cardassian space to find something to exchange for his release.

Aphasia is real for those who don't know that and does exactly what it does in this episode. Theres another another piece of media (non star trek related) that addresses this. I dont wanna say the name of the series because they're watching it lol. So I don't even wanna spoil that.

I love that you guys are already on board with the Quark and Odo rivalry

It's a different starsystem....different orbit's, different day cycles. 26 hours is a Bajoran day so the Bajoran station operates on that time.

blech. one of the worst

Bread

The thing about this episode is... Aside of the Bajorans being a central piece, it is so UN-DS9 in so many ways. As you guys said, this could so easily be the TNG case, with little change.

This a much better episode than The Naked Now. It's high C low B territory IMO.

The grading seems fair. It’s not a terrible episode, but also not remarkable. One thing I always found interesting is the idea that Odo can’t imitate human faces, but he so accurately copies so many other objects or small animals seemingly without the same problem. My friend and I had a theory. It’s not so much that Odo can’t copy the look of the face itself. It’s more that he can’t nail the subtleties of expression in the human face, creating an uncanny valley effect like bad CGI. So he chooses to lower the detail on his face so that his expressions aren’t so distracting because if he already looks alien, than there isn’t the same frame of reference for how it SHOULD look(kinda like how they could do CGI animals like dinosaurs long before digital people, because we don’t have a preconceived notion for how it should look and move. That’s always been my head canon at least. 🤷‍♂️

Love this episode. Three decades later and Quark still makes me laugh out loud. It would be so creepy to be caught in the middle of space technology and loose any way to communicate with anyone.

Not a great episode, but I will echo what others have said: these early episodes are far and away better than seasons 1 and 2 of TNG.

"It's not bad, just boring" is how I describe much of season 1. Aside from the pilot and a few eps at the start, a few at the end, and a couple throughout the middle, that's most of this season for me. Your mileage may vary. As others have explained, the title refers to the story of the Tower of Babel, as did Journey to Babel and the planet itself, being a place for different people to meet and come to an agreement, though perhaps the planet was named somewhat ironically as the story had everyone going their separate ways unable to understand each other. Given that story, you'd expect "babble" to have an origin in the name Babel, but apparently not. All the scenes of the characters speaking gibberish tend to be staples of the "DS9 out of context" videos on YT. It was funny when I was younger, but not so much on rewatches. Quark reveling in Odo needing his help OTOH never gets old. As for O'Brien, in some ways he's probably like Bashir. He came to DS9 for a challenge. Aside from the fact that he's now basically doing Geordi's job with a few of Data's duties mixed in, and is in charge of the engineering staff on DS9, I honestly think he was bored on the Enterprise. I mean imagine how many days go by with NOBODY transported anywhere. You go in for a 10 hour shift, and aside from some basic maintenance duties, you're just standing there with a console, all alone, just praying SOMETHING happens to break the boredom. The man must have listened to so many podcasts in that transporter room. Clearly though, he didn't anticipate just how much work awaited him on DS9.

At least this episode was not another steal from The Naked time. I thought TNG was going to flop when I saw The Naked Now.

As far as obligatory disease episodes go, I'll take babel over horny viruses anyday

Chicken balls have fish eyes. Beef curry invades my tacos show sucks.

“frenmity”?

I still love this episode, and I loved it even more watching it with y'all~

I think the idea behind "The Naked Now" was to link TNG to TOS early on and to show aspects of the characters you wouldn't normally see. A major problem with the episode is it was done too early. It was like, what, the second episode after the pilot. In order to get something out of an episode with characters acting out of character and their inhibitions removed, we need to sort of know the characters which at that point we didn't. That said, the episode holds up slightly better on a rewatch, and for me there's something inherently creepy about a virus where you lose control that spreads so easily. The virus also seems a bit different then in TOS. People in TOS acted more crazy and out of control of their emotions, whereas The Naked Now seems more like a form of intoxication. Of course Data being affected was silly, but I suppose they didn't want a "Data saves the day" episode this early on, as having Data unaffected would have made for a boring episode. As I recall, the only main character that isn't infected is Worf. But people hated the "whiz kid comes up with idea to save the grown ups" with Data still saving the day as it was representative of the idea behind Wesley that fans hated. The "Gary Sue" character that was blatantly suppose to appeal to "younger fans" as an idealized projection character, the quiet, nerdy super-genius who is smarter then all the adults but doesn't get respect. I don't think this episode is like that, I enjoyed it, though I did use enhacement of the THC kind while on the rewatch which tends to improve episodes as you really notice and feel all the small character details. Again, as many have said about the Pilot, the story pretty much HAS to be the first episode, as it's uniquely setting up the premise. The story of Sisko and the aspect that you didn't comment on or pay much attention to, the Kai anointing him as "The Emissary" a prophesized figure who would find the Celestial Temple and "The Prophets." You guys didn't really go into that aspect, but the idea of Bajoran religion and cultural identity being based on actual "prophecies" as given by these orbs, with the "Prophets" having a sci-fi explanation as GLBs but also being alien enough in some sense to be like gods who exist non-linearly, which sets up all sorts of paradoxical ways of thinking about the religion and culture. In other words, if they really exist non-linearly, the prophecies the Bajorans see are actually visions of the future, but like Macbeth, the act of giving those prophecies changes the future. Thus the fascinating idea that Sisko comes to them and teaches them about non-linear existence, but since they are outside of time, this didn't "Happen" at that time, it happened, happens, happened, is always happening. This creates the paradox where effects from "the present" can impact "the past" and "The future" in ways alien to us, but that represents paradoxical notions about religion. So prophecies about the emissary, the prophets knew it was going to happen, but also when it happens, it's new information that changes the past and future. It's a pretty mind blowing concept which also leans into spiritual ideas about the nature of destiny and religion. That plus the events set up the whole premise of this stations going from a not ideal odd assignment to a significant one with the station being parked outside the wormhole and the unique circumstances, as well as Sisko having a "spiritual experience" where he has to face the shadow self that has been trapping him to move on to... what? The stuff with Sisko's character could not be done later... this has to be the begining of the journey because it represents a sort of "fixed point" that influences what came before and what comes after. The elements of Sisko's grief also underly his role as a father, that Jake is the living vestige of that relationship, which adds depth to the talk with Jake he couldn't understand where Sisko assures him he's not going to lose him which is a role he has to balance with being the CO. As far as your question, yes, Kira is second in command. O'brien as a Chief is actually low ranking in the command hierarchy though he has authority over his Bajoran work crews. It seems like you guys still don't quite get the ranks. Dak is a Lieutenant, meaning she is the second highest ranking starfleet officer. Bashir is a lieutenant junior grade. Kira is not starfleet, she is a major which is roughly the equivalent to a commander in the military. For this particular assignment, she has command authority, though the aspects of the unconventional command structure is part of the unique setup. Odo is a constable, which isn't a military rank but a police rank. He is in charge of the Bajoran security force, and in charge of matters of security, but his exact role in terms of the chain of command is therefore a bit ambigous. He was used to having a great deal of leverage under the Cardassians while his actual authority was as much as the Cardassians gave him, though he made the distinction of not being a "collaborator" as while he enforced the "laws" he was also motivated by his own sense of "justice" or order. Thise sets up the dynamic we have already seen where he is concerned about having to run security under starfleet regulations where there are much more formal rules then he had before. In his words from the previous episode "I decide who has rights on the promenade" which is not how Starfleet operates. He sees these rules and regulations as impediments to doing his job, and perhaps you could argue has a slight authoritarian streak, possibly from working with Cardassians, but he trusts his own sense of what "justice" is and doesn't particularly care about the means he uses to get it, and he sees in many ways that he is... if not "above the law", then certaintly "outside the law", as he is so fundamentally different from all the humanoid species, and him spending most of his time in humanoid form means he is sort of playing at being humanoid but he's actually one of the most genuinely alien species we've encountered. I've given a lot to the phyics of him and won't bore you with the details now, but he has to be a sort of quantum plasm that has a "quantum sense" of how to shape into other structure. Like when he is "humanoid" he actually creates a brain and partially perceives like humanoids, but there is also an alien sense of somekind of "quantum perception" so when he is in other forms he is aware of what is going on around him. He CAN eat, but doesn't need to. He's clearly able to gain and lose some mass from the environment, and presumably his "regeneration cylce" as hi most basic state of quantum plasm has to be absorbing energy frpm the surrounding matter in a hyper efficient way. None of this is spoilers, it's just what I've worked out from observing him, and by this episode we already have enough to form a basis for speculation of how he works. (This is my logically inferred speculation). Going back to this episode, the problem with "stakes" is the same one with episodic tv in general. Thus Trek can arguably be most interesting when the stakes aren't "is the ship going to blow up?" but how a problem is solved. Your take here suggests to me that I'm right that you will hate Voyager because Voyager is notoriously bad with this, with "fake stakes" where the supposed drama come from something where the outcome is obviously known ahead of time. That said, I didn't have as much as a problem with this one. It's obvious the station isn't going to blow up or named characters aren't going to die at this point. The thing you bring up about someone dying to raise the stakes doesn't really work for me. This was the classic TOS "redshirt" problem where they had non-main crew members die to raise the stakes. The problem with this is when it keeps happening it doesn't actually raise the stakes. TNG got away from this where death of a crewman was unusual enough to suggest stakes, but I agree the "will the ship blow up" problem never feels very dramatic. As people have said, this is one of the reasons DS9 gets so much better, because things in episodes DO have long term consequences even though we're obviously not going to see the station blow up and main characters like Sisko will obviously have some "plot armor" But as a station wide threat episode I found it interesting and was invested. I mean, in the last episode for example, its not like you guys suspected Odo was actually guilty and would be removed permanently and be imprisoned, so the drama was in character development and how the mystery was solved. I supposed that said, there are SOME character stakes because though we know Odo wont go to jail, we don't really know him and it's possible he may have done SOMETHING comprimised. This is definitely one of those that partially feels more like a high concept TNG episode applied to DS9 which are the weaker ones of the first season, but given that, I thought it wasn't bad and had enough DS9 elements to feel different. Even though Bashir doesn't solve the problem, we also get him as a competent doctor instead of socially awkward. A lot of the character devlopment stuff is subtle. Like Dax being slightly interested in Quark's offer, Kira's atttiude, The Sisko/Jake interactions. We also develop the Bajorans in relationship to the occupation. More understanding that in a situation where a brutal totalitarian invading force has invaded the planet, enslaved the population to strip it of resources, and generally killing Bajorans in genocidal fashion, the resistance can't be noble freedom fighers with ethical lines. Against this type of enemy, and the fierceness of the bajoran people, it's definitely "by any means neccessary" and we increasingly understand that's how Kira lived her entire life. The distinction between freedom fighter/terrorist gets blurred, and the Bajorans arent starfleet. Like you can imagine the resistance was forced to use methods starfleet would never consider, because they were fighting for the survival of their species and planet.

"Babble" is spelled with an extra "b", "Babel" as people have pointed out, refers to the (odd) biblical story which was an explanation for different languages with kind of a bad message. They try to make the episode titles sound "epic". This was a TOS thing, but it's definitely a DS9 thing, we have episode titles in latin, biblical references, etc.

Guys, guys! What did I say about not posting until Monday

It’s an interesting one I guess. Nothing special and a concept that could have been dropped into TNG easily. The Odo and Quark stuff is a highlight but in retrospect but maybe the weakest of the first part of the season

I have a different take, rewatching this I was surpried by how exciting I found it, cool concept and good character stuff for Kira, Odo, and Quark.

Weird how you can only see the back of the annoyed captains head when he's "talking" to Obrien and then Sisko, but when you do see him speaking he's not actually looking at either of them, its clearly re-assembled and voiced over. It makes me wonder if they had another actor in that part initially and had to reshoot some of it.

I remember liking this one back in the day but I was very aware of time passing as I watched it today, especially after the first 20 mins. A lot of the actors seem to struggle with the babel acting, and as I mentioned in my take, Avery Brooks struggles with the coffee cup acting. Would it kill them to put some liquid in the cup?

By the way, "Babel" DOES actually refer to the Biblical "Tower of Babel" (pronounced "Baybel") in which the people of Earth thought they could build a tower so high as to reach Heaven. God then decided to make everyone speak different languages.

Not sure if u have seen "American History X" Avery Brooks plays the school principle gives a powerful performance

This was far better than Naked Now. All I remember from that one is the extent of everyone's infection is people act flirty, and Wesley plays with blocks. This they took care to make it deadly and created a situation for the end that risked the entire station. Is it original or a classic? No, but it is a perfectly serviceable ST plot that with a few tweaks might have worked on TOS. The disease being silly talk is indicative of the kiddie friendly vibe of 90s Trek, but the writers at least took care to make sure the problems mounted with each commercial break. It's around a B, good enough to watch, but nothing to wow you. Naked Time is the gold standard for these types of situations, an S through and through, but TOS was cooking with gas season one.

Great reaction as always guys! I kinda share your opinion on this, not my favourite, but I found that most of the odo/quark humour landed for me, that gets me through a watch of this one. Just a side note- it may be me, but your reaction seemed very low volume on this one. Like when the snippets of the episode are on they are very loud, but your commentary in comparison seemed really quiet, to the point where I struggled with it a bit. Like I said could be my end, but never noticed before so maybe something to double check 👍 The problem seemed to go away with your post episode discussion, so 🤷‍♂️

Lads, lads, the titular Babel refers to the mythical "tower of Babel", built by humans to be tall enough to reach God -- God punished humans by giving them different languages to speak, thus stopping their work no, the episode is not much better with this knowledge

I don't think anyone will Back the Garden giving this one a C. Not bad, still has its moments (Odo and Quark banter) but it's definitely "season 1" material.

Well, they couldn't keep it up for long. Getting some naked time/now vibes?

DS9's The Naked Now. D.

My thoughts: I'm flower units the mainstay about this particular crumble.

Grapes Cup Flower Balls!!!