UNCUT - Relics (TNG S6E4) | Star Trek Journey 238
Comments (168)
A trope is a tried and true story element that people like, and nearly every story has one or several. A cliche just means something has been used too much.
Well if somebody wanted to show an example of a later season episode that equal the mediocrity of so many season 1 and season 2 episodes I would show them this one. Not horrible passable entertainment but way below average for the later seasons.
I think, if you guys want to give Ron Moore another chance as a showrunner, give For All Mankind a go. It’s a phenomenal show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSnA2FdDYfk Neil Degrasse Tyson talking about Dyson Spheres
You should continue Battlestar
IIRC the original bridge set was built by a fan of TOS, and the production got their permission to use it for this episode.
I love this episode but whenever I watch them in order, I'm reminded of one of my biggest TNG regrets: I've always wished that this had been the two-part season ender in place of "Time's Arrow". The Dyson Sphere deserved to be more than a MacGuffin, and I would have loved 1-2 more "useful Scotty" scenes plus one with Guinan, to balance out the "old and in the way" ones. And after all if Spock got a 2-parter, then Scotty deserved one too.
With the Ron Moore script given more room to breathe, like in the novelisation, this would have been a far better season finale two-parter than Times Arrow...
The Dyson Sphere. Yes, a real theory. You build it at the Earth's distance from the star because the Earth's distance from the sun is essential to life being able to survive as a place suitable for life. Mars is further out and is therefore too cold. Venus is a little closer and has a runaway greenhouse effect that makes the temperature over 900 degrees.
They made Riker the audience surrogate a lot, which accidentally makes him a dumbass. "A Dyson sphere?" "What is a TV?"
Talk about spoilers, I remember hearing an announcement on the radio that Scotty would make an appearance on TNG before Season 6 even started. Great episode though. I get teary eyed seeing Scotty getting pushed aside and then on the TOS bridge saluting his old crewmates.
There’s a novel written a few years later about Spock being captured on Romulus and Scotty hears about it, flies his shuttle to the Fleet Museum and steals the old Constitution class ship Picard was talking about to go rescue him
I believe there is a novel that has Scotty having been part of the cre that built the Enterprise-E, and I believe Kelsey Grammer's Captain batesman. Obviously non-canon, but another case of using him
Once The Next Generation had established itself in its later seasons, the stars of TOS…with one notable exception…expressed their openness at some point to possibly reprise their roles on the series. To quote Leonard Nimoy about TNG, “They’ve forged their own path and are doing quite well!” There were no hard feelings from the original cast about TNG’s success…with one notable exception. I’ll let Josh and Alex deduce on their own who could possibly be that one exception.
I just Google searched "How did James Doohan end up on tng" and the Google AI literally spit this out. Guess we've still got some work to do on the AI. "James Doohan, known for playing Scotty in Star Trek: The Original Series, did not appear in any episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation (TNG)."
😀
250 -MILLION- class M planets. Think about it, the whole orbit of earth, in all directions. Think about it, you look up at the noon sky and there's the sun, sure, but in every direction, no sky, no stars, just endless land. If a Dyson sphere existed in this fashion it would be absolutely enormous in the extreme. You could fit a million United Federation of Planets inside that sphere. If only that sun wasn't at the end of it's life making it no longer habitable. Which is ostensibly why it was abandoned.
Don't know that it was at the end of its life, but a star with a lot of solar flare activity poses a severe radiation risk. Atmosphere helps but the Earth has a lot smaller target. You would assume it would be a very advanced civilization, but they could have gone extinct via disease, or evolved into a higher lifeform.
Relics really needed some Shakespeare to really hit home.
Little late commenting.......I love this episode and knew you boys would as well. The only issue I have with it is some of the writing and plot points concerning the Dyson Sphere. I know it was just for drama, but why was it such and emergency to escape from the inside? Obviously at some point they had repaired the impulse engines, else they would not have been able to leave close orbit around the star when they did. Only reason they were in danger was because of the close orbit they were forced to be in when all they had was maneuvering thrusters, Riker went off to see if he could get the impulse engines back online, then all of a sudden they were. The star was unstable, yes, but still only in the early stages of the late main sequence. Yellow stars take millions of years to puff up into red giants. So why didn't they just go into a further orbit from the star, get out of the flare's way, say in an orbit about the size of Venus? They would have not been in danger then. They would have had plenty of time to figure out how to open the big hatch again. I know, I know...plot device and only time enough for a 45 minute show. Like others have commented, this discovery was incredible and just a gold mine of possible stories that they never followed up on. Where did the builders go??? Did they really leave or did they all die inside the sphere? They obviously did not have warp drive....you don't build something like that if you did have it, and how did they build it??? On and on.
I know there's a regular posting schedule but AAAAHHHH WHY AM I NOT GETTING EMAIL NOTIFS ANYMORE
That’s very odd. I’ll let Patreon know.
This is one of the few times I've double watched the reaction and episode. And I watched it pretty much immediately after the first time. I love this one. I'm happy that you guys loved it too.
Scotty's reactions to Worf through the episode are my favorite little bits.
I recommend this clip from a recent interview with Ron Moore. He talks about how he was a life long Trek fan and how he got his job writing for TNG. No spoilers or anything in this clip just him talking about leaving college and getting hired, it's really good and gives some insight on how he started in the business and how trek hired writers: https://youtu.be/NByFksMWWII?si=xLmEst1LJx3EedgI
Is this the best use of Scotty ever? S6 has such a broad variety of stories that I can’t help but love it. Even the less strong ones like man of the people have merit. Relics is perfect as a single episode I think dragging it out to a two parter may compromise it.
Fair
Re: Ron Moore and BSG, I think as you guys start to see and live with the same limitations of Star Trek as it progresses that he and the rest of us did, you will see the value of BSG. I think that show is worth a second chance - you cut yourselves off right at the precibus of some incredible payoff. That said, his contributions to the Trek franchise only get better, more epic and consequential and deeper from this point. His remaining writing credits on Star Trek stand out among the best ever and smartest pieces of character writing for the franchise. There is a lot more valuable runway in the Ron Moore Trek Train.
Ron Moore’s ‘For All Mankind’ is incredible watch if you have a chance.
In case you guys dont read my longer comments, "The Naked Now" was the engine restart sequence Scotty had to come up with when the ship was hurtling towards Psi 2000, the planet with the weird gravity that made the water into a contaminant
Naked Time (TOS), but very similar episodes I grant you
I haven't read all the comments, so this might have been covered, but the bridge set was actually something a fan had made that they found about and were able to use for this episode. YOu guys caught the Elaan of Troy reference (he did flub the line, but thats no unrealistic that he might have forgotten her name) but didn't mention the Psi 2000 reference as being to The Naked Now. yes, the planet he referenced where "a man can have evrything thing he wants but the first time i went there" was indeed a reference to the Jack the Ripper episode.
I don't think he flubbed the line, he called her the Dohlman of Elas, which was her title, he didn't say her name...
I love this episode, and the older I get the more it hits home. James Doohan was fantastic in this one, and Ron Moore absolutely nailed it with this script. As others pointed out, the size of a Dyson sphere is INSANE. I really wish they'd followed up on it more. Any civilization that could build this would have to have the technology to disassemble entire solar systems and transport them across the galaxy, then reassemble them into this. They'd have material science able to create a shell only (apparently) a few miles thick that could withstand the stress of its own motion around the star to create artificial gravity without being torn apart and collapsing inward. Plus the logistics of creating millions upon millions of worlds of seas, oceans, mountains, islands, and the weather and atmosphere....the power generation...the internal transport and communication - MIND-BLOWING! The Federation would have to send dozens of teams of hundreds of specialists to start investigating this thing, unstable star and all. Oh, and that earlier episode where they had Timicin trying to create technology to stabilize a star... Damn. There is so much gold in here that just doesn't get mined..
There is a brief line in I believe a Captain's Log at the end of the episode of Stafleet dispatching a couple Science Vessels to continue the exploration of it.
Finally had time to watch this after being busy all day. Glad you both loved it. From Memory Alpha: During the first season of The Next Generation, Doohan had strong words about the series, believing it to be rehashing a number of episodes the classic series had done. It was not until his family made him sit down and watch The Next Generation did he finally appreciate the new series. While a bit too crass in regard to season one, he was not entirety wrong in his assessment, as there were some episodes that were essentially rehashes of original crew episodes, such as "The Naked Now" (from "The Naked Time") and, due to a writers' strike, the second season episodes "The Child" (originally a likewise titled episode written for the abandoned Star Trek: Phase II television series) and "Unnatural Selection" (from "The Deadly Years").
I never saw what others saw in the reboot of BSG. Not saying it wasn't good, a lot of my friends really liked it... it just wasn't for me.
Check out the cut scene with Troy. It's worth it.
There was a comic book special called "Out of Time" where Captain Bateson (Kelsey Grammer) from the USS Bozeman in "Cause and Effect" meets up with Scotty.
https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Out_of_Time
Reaction was so nice, I had to go and watch it twice. Here's to you, lads!
Oh man... the intensity of the anticipation and the expectant smile on my face the second the teaser to this episode started, just waiting for THAT reveal... haha. I was not disappointed. It's reactions like this one that really provide that sweet, deep dopamine hit of watching two of your friends experience something you just KNOW they're going to love for the very first time. Great reaction, guys! TNG is just like the best comfort food. I feel like even if I live to be 140 years old like Scotty, I'll still be watching these same freakin TNG episodes, and loving every minute of it!
It is green!
As an avid Trekkie but who hasn't been able to get into TOS for one reason or another, I still loved this episode. Didn't know who Scottie was the first time watching it, yet even without the nostalgia bait, it works as its own coherent & emotional story. Also, given your shock at how big the Dyson Sphere is, this quote seems very relevant: “Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.” So wrote Douglas Adams
The biggest reason this episode works is James Doohan. The man has charm. And he brings out a side of Picard it was a lot of fun to see.
Yes, I noted Doohan's acting was excellence and he really sold Scotty's emotions here
Picard on the original Enterprise bridge: FUCKING LEGENDARY.
and the way he pounded that whiskey, dang lol
This episode is great for fan service. The plot and dialog is iffy at times. Scotty used some of the same lines way too often. And the Dyson sphere deserved a better plot. It is just too cool for this one. But I love Scotty so I love this episode. Unification 1 and 2 are much better episodes as far as plot, dialog, and acting. This one has more fan service and call backs to TOS. The "it's green" is a callback to the TOS episode "By any Other Name" when Scotty drinks the alien under the carpet. I like the friction between Geordi and Scotty. It gives the episode some character. I cannot see how this one or Unification is a better sendoff that Star Trek 6. Here most of the crew just says goodbye to Scotty and some were not in the episode beside that one scene. Scotty telling Geordi he is a good engineer is cool but it does more for Geordi than Scotty. Scotty just realizes he has more to give and more adventure. That is it. Spock was better because he was really doing something. TNG or some other series could really go back to that. The stakes are smaller here than 6 which was one of the criticisms of 6 that the guys gave. In 6 the stakes were a possible war with the Klingons and Kirk and his son and Spock. Here it is just the Enterprise. Great fan service episode but if that was not Scotty in the transporter beam then this episode would really be bad. At best it would be boring.
Well, Scotty himself rated this episode “no bloody A, B, C or D” just an S
So I did the math, and if the Dyson sphere is 200 million km in diameter, and Earth is 12,750km in diameter, then the DS is 15,686 times Earth's diametrer. Multiplying all 3 axis (15,686x15,686x15,686) would mean the surface area is about 3.86 TRILLION times as much as Earth. 15,686x15,686 works out to 246 million like the episode said, so I think the writers messed up on the math. Even if every star in the Milky Way had an Earth type planet, the Dyson sphere could still house at LEAST 10x as many people as the entire rest of the galaxy. So yeah, the scale of the thing is insane. EDIT - So the TNG writers were correct, I was wrong. Calculated volume forgetting that surface area doesn't scale the same way. Makes sense when you remember the surface is ultimately 2 dimensional and so only needs to be squared. 246 million Earths is correct. Still, pretty insane. With the nerd shit out of the way, I know a lot of people criticize this episode for the friction that occurs between Geordi and Scotty and wanted the whole crew to just endlessly fawn over having a "living legend" walk among them. First off, I just don't think that would make a compelling episode. Also Scotty is a legend to US as Trek fans, but would he really be a legend to people serving a century after his heyday just because they serve on a ship bearing the same name? I mean I'm sure they've heard of him and would love to chat with him about his adventures when things aren't as hectic. I'm sure there are lots of sailors in the US navy who would kill for a chance to have a conversation with Halsey or Nimitz or some of the more famous sailors in US naval history. But would they be as hyped to speak to an engineer JUST because they served on the New Jersey or the Enterprise or the Yorktown? Probably not so much. It would be cool, sure, but just because a ship is famous doesn't mean people a century later have the crew roster memorized. But besides all that, the WHOLE POINT of the episode is shining a light on how people can lose their purpose in old age, only to show later that even a man well past his prime can still contribute something of value. I get that Geordi was being kinda rude, but honestly so was Scotty. He was acting like all these middle aged "kids" running the engineering section of Starfleet's most advanced ship have no idea what they're doing, instead of just assuming tech has changed in the last 3/4 of a century. The thing that really bugged me was Picard did what I would have. He offered to set Scotty up with the materials to refresh himself on newer technology, and Scotty brushed off the idea. Like dude, you gotta meet them halfway. Remember back in Trouble with Tribbles how Scotty was HAPPY to be confined to quarters so he could nerd out with tech manuals? He should have been all over that idea. Also would have been nice for someone to mention that McCoy and Spock are still alive, and to a lesser extent the crew of the Bozeman who were from his time. It's a great episode that tackles head on what a lot of seniors experience as they get older and feel like the world has no further use for them. There is however 1 other Trek episode that I feel tackles that subject even better. Still, Relics is S tier
Surface area equation is 4pir^2. You might be thinking of the volume of a sphere? So if r_d is the radius of the Dyson sphere and r_e is the radius of the Earth, the ratio is (4*pi*r_d^2) / (4*pi*r_e^2) and everything cancels out except for r_d^2/r_e^2 = (r_d/r_e)^2. So (200,000,000 / 12750)^2 ~= 15686^2 ~= 246 million times the surface area.
someone on youtube recently uploaded a deleted scene where Scotty talks to Troi in this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MZb93Xxww
Thanks for posting the link! I was just thinking about that deleted scene when they said, "Oh there's Troi!" I feel like it was a natural cut for time and pacing, but it's a nice enough little scene.
Hope you guys go back to BSG at some point. By the end, it will definitely be one of your favorite shows.
I don't think it's the right show for these guys. It's dark, it's heavy, it's almost never funny. And it gets less funny as it goes.
I love going into episodes like this with you guys, where it's just a random episode. Like, oh, season six episode four, eh? Then I'm over here rubbin my hands together like "heh heh, they don't know what's about to happen here"...certainly won't be the last time!
Wonderful episode great tribute to Scotty
the Dyson sphere is like the duplicate earth from TOS, never mentioned again on screen, only show up in books that are beta canon at best
I'll talk about this more later, but Star Trek Online does a great job with its plot and following up on tons of stuff from episodes. I think it's worth keeping in mind that even at this point in TNG while there was continuity and world building, it isnt like modern trek where there's just so much of it that the writers need to hire expert fans to make sure they dont get anything wrong.
You watched Battlestar too early IMO. I honestly feel if you had watched it mid Enterprise, or after Voyager you would have felt a lot differently about the show. Maybe when you get there - try it again.
People complaining about Scotty being disregarded by younger people are complaining about the narrative and thematic thrust of the episode. It's called "Relics." It"s about being old and obsolete, though still historically fascinating, but ultimately useless. You take that out and the episode is just: "And now Scotty us here." It ties the Jenolan, the Sphere and Scotty together. People complaining about this are complaining about the entire point of the episode - the perception of aging. Geordie is BUSY. That Junior Ensign doesn't want to get in trouble with his boss. Scotty sadly got underfoot.
I never liked this episode much. It’s great to see Scotty again! but it seems like shoehorned storyline. Every story Scotty tells were things we already saw onscreen..They mention Guinan a bunch a character Scotty hasn’t met and doesn’t know.. it seemed like she was supposed to be in the episode and they wrote around her? Also controversial opinion.. they should have taken the opportunity of Scotty’s Holodeck recreation to retcon the “Amazing Technicolor Dream bridge” 🤷♂️ If we just pretended that TOS always looked like the “stargazer” bridge I’d be fine with it.
I read the novelization of this episode and there was a subplot involving the young kid who showed Scotty to his quarters..The kid is sassy and shirks his duties.. and is on Riker’s shit list.. also there is an away mission to the surface of the sphere’s interior..
One really lovely little detail from some beta cannon, there's an encyclopedia of federation ships out there, known as Star Trek Shipyards. It notes against a future ship you will meet, that one of the design engineers involved was one Montgomery Scott. After he left the Enterprise, he didn't retire, he went on to help design starships at the cutting edge. (This isn't a spoiler, as it's purely beta cannon, never mentioned or discussed on screen)
ron moore is the mvp of TNG
People who drop spoilers like your your friend did, Alex.... are just fucking clueless. Please yell at him for me.
One thing I really like about this episode is that the B-Plot (Dyson Sphere shiet) is interesting enough for its own episode, even without the Scotty content. But they give it only enough attention to keep it mysterious and fascinating. And I think I'm starting to understand why y'all dislike Star Trek VI so much: there is no *closure* to the TOS crew and legacy. At least not satisfyingly so. This never bothered me because I was never close to the TOS continuity, and I've always admired VI on its own as a thriller story. I imagine that makes episodes like this that much more special to y'all~
That is one of several reasons, yes.
If I were to give a rebuttal to the plot generally not being that great, I would use a an aphorism said to me when I was learning to play drums as a kid. My instructor said to me, "a bad drummer can make a good band sound bad, but a good drummer can make a bad band sound great." You don't always need the craziest, or even most rememberable plots for a story, but if your characters and their interactions are done well, you will have a great episode. Characters are the real heart of a story. You can have the most amazing plot ever, but if your characters are not done well, the story will fall flat. Also, Dyson spheres are a real idea. It's something that is considered when analyzing astrological data. And when considering how many planets can fit inside a Dyson sphere, you have to think three dimensionally, i.e. volume. Creating a sphere (not a flat disk) around the Sun that is equal in size to that of the orbit of Earth around the Sun would allow 1.6 trillion Earths to fit inside that sphere (I think I did the math correctly... I didn't see an answer with a quick google search. Earth to Sun distance in miles = 93 million ; Earth diameter = 7,926.2 miles ; volume of a sphere is V = 4/3π(r)^3 ; plug those numbers in and I got 3.47914201x10^24 / 2.08585296x10^12 = 1.66797089x10^12. so that is 1.6 trillion.... I'm not a math person....)
I calculated in kilometers. Earth is about 12,750km in diameter, and the Dyson sphere was 200 million km across or about 15,686 times Earth's diameter. Since they're both spheres, you just need to cube that number(that sounds weird) and you get 3.86 trillion times Earth's surface. If the sphere was actually the size of Earth's orbit(300 million km) the surface area would be I think 13 trillion earths. Either way, a hell of a lot more than 250 million.
I haven't watched the reaction yet but I've seen lots of comments here about BSG. On the one hand it's the GOAT in so many amazing ways. On the other hand if the miniseries and more didn't convince you of that then maybe best to just move on. After all, you suffered through all of S1 + S2 of TNG and enthusiastically moved on to the awesome later seasons. BSG mostly hit its stride right from the start. How about trying Babylon 5 (not the clunky pilot please) which broke all the rules and set the bar for so much that was to follow, or Continuum to break out a cool direction less well tread.
I cannot get into it, I can't stand the handicam, the characters are paper thin to me, and I don't care about anyone on the show. Maybe it's also too melodramatic for my taste or something, I dunno. It's just uninteresting (e.g. boring) and the handicam makes it painful.
There have been a number of TNG episodes that have gotten a novilization. This was one of them it also got an audio book adaption that Lavar Burton introduced and James Doohan narrated. Both Guinan and O'Brian turns up in them. Doohan's impersonation of O'Brian was spot on. On another note, there is a comic book story where Captain Morgan Bateson is having difficulty adjusting to being thrown 70 years into the future. He gets some help when he gets a visit from Captain Scott who is now in the same boat. So to speak. On yet another note it's a Dyson Sphere not a Dyson Ball. No references to expensive vacume cleaners please.
Not a fan of this episode other than scotty it's a bore
Totally! felt like a lame shoehorn.. I hate that Scotty simply must tell stories about things we saw onscreen..
Now I listened to the discussion fully. BSG I recall you being peeved that it ended on a cliffhanger and felt it was just a tease for season two. The show is formatted like a soap opera, it never ends, and there is no wrap up in direction at the end of each season. The writing is far superior on that show than anything in TNG, and you can even see how the TNG Chief is kind of remade as the BSG chief with the whole blue collar vibe. Even the debate about Hugh was remade with more nuance in BSG. The TNG with the trial and the woman hell bent on getting a conviction was redone on BSG with the Chief as the one under suspicion. it's a show that is not held back by needing to be child friendly and just comparing the writing for XO Riker vs XO Saul Tighe is all one needs to compare the two and decide which was the better written show.
The TOS bridge scene almost was the bridge from the movies because the prospect of building the old bridge was too expensive. But they learned someone had a fan built Captain's chair and navigation console that they borrowed and they built one wedge of the bridge, enough for closeup and medium shots. Then they used the empty bridge footage from This Side of Paradise. They put the wide shot on a loop and blue screened (green screened?) Jimmy Doohan onto the loop. So, in the end they were able to do the scene without breaking the budget.
ah ok. I incorrectly said a fan had made the whole bridge. That was from memory of reading about it a long time ago
I’m happy to hear the Siren’s song of BSG still call to you sometimes. I was pretty disappointed when you guys cut it short.
why is everyone talking about BSG in this thread?
And Bringing in a Nostalgic Characters six seasons in you've earned that right
Agree 100%!
Every time I see Scotty toast the old crew and say "Here's to ya, lads." I get a little choked up.
Same. It's a shame nobody told him "oh by the way, Dr McCoy is still kicking around, and Spock is on Romulus. We could probably smuggle in a message".
The first time I've ever wished I could respond with a gif, "Oh booooy I've been waitin' for this!!"
If Scottish Scotty had met up with Irish O'Brien, there would have been WAY too much drinking and not much else.
Also poor Franklin would have beamed out successfully
An example that fear of spoilers wasn't a thing in these days is the german dubbed title of this episode. Translated it was called "Visit from the old Enterprise", Literally!
To me it was just lazy or bad writing and directing to caricature Scotty's fish out of water behavior and everyone's reaction to it. It could have and should have been done more subtly and poignantly. Nevertheless it gets a pass because it was a good episode and it was fantastic to see Scotty back ... his scenes on the original Enterprise bridge and on the Jenolin more than made up for other shortcomings. When this first aired I was ROTFL with the "it's green" scene. Total fan service and I loved it.
yeah... I think this is a difference between the standard of television now and then. It doesn't come off that way to me, but TOS and TNG were never subtle. It wasn't till DS9 they get into character subtleties, like a certain Gul for example.
For years I never got the Troi inclusion at the end Turns out there’s a deleted scene I found about a month ago, which I assume is before he goes to Ten Forward… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MZb93Xxww&pp=ygUYdG5nIHJlbGljcyBkZWxldGVkIHNjZW5ld
I just saw that for the first time too and was like... ahhhh.
Battlestar....SO SAY WE ALL!!!!!!....just do it ...trust us.....
Yes, Freeman Dyson was a real person and did put forth the idea of a Dyson sphere.
Yeah but his theory was nothing like it’s presented in this episode. However, how it is presented here is just too cool.
Great reaction guys. But leave it to you two to have Jimmy Doohan on the Enterprise D and complain that there’s no Colm Meaney! 😉
Guys, BSG is definitely worth it, 100%.
They recreated a section of the original Enterprise bridge for this episode. The establishing shot as he looked into the bridge and then the shot of the viewscreen were taken from the original series.
Scotty was promoted to the rank of Captain in ST3 when he was made of Captain of Engineering on the Excelsior.
Do you think someone can become an Admiral of Engineering?
Edward James Olmos’s performance as Adama is possibly the greatest sci fi TV drama performance ever. I’d be surprised if you don’t warm to it.
I'd give that honor to Nimoy. He played emotion without outwardly showing emotion and created the most complex character in Trek
Do I need to get some booze to drink with this reaction? IYKYK
Can't hurt
I was a bit miffed by the dismissive attitude towards Scotty. He's an old salt who has SEEN things and DONE things, as opposed to riding a barstool and TALKING about things. I think part of a young man's duty is to listen to old men's stories. There's an important symmetry to that. That first ensign who blew him off, whatever, he's like 21 years old...but La Forge should know better. Old men and young men have much to learn from one another. "As we are now, they once were. As they are now, we soon shall be."
Scotty could have been drafted to be a history professor. He was witness to monumental incidents in Federation history. He is actually the guy who killed the assassin at the conference with the Klingons, he was there for the first sighting of Romulans, he is the guy who adapted cloaking tech, he doesn't have to go to the Daystrum Institute because he watched Daystrum himself have a breakdown. And he's the only guy in Starfleet who was possessed by Jack The Ripper. They should have had him document this stuff in interviews before it's too late.
There must be something wrong with my monitors...they're all ripply and blurry. 😪 You're right, Josh. I barely remember the first run of TOS back in the sixties, but as a teenager I used to watch them in syndication everyday after school in the 70's. , Trust me, the moment Scotty walks on to that Holodeck bridge 20 years later was a very emotional experience. I would venture to say you got the better experience in terms of the surprise of his appearance, though... those darn "next week" previews were quite spoilery.
I know it's hard to believe, but Trek previews were even more spoilery than YouTube discussion threads.
Last weeks episode was thrown together last minute and written by a committee in a hurry...because James Doohan's schedule changed and he could not Relics at the original time so they had to shove in last weeks lame Troi torture and euthanasia episode
Surely ya’ll liked this one!
Also, I almost got to have lunch with Freeman Dyson once when I was in grad school. That's it, that's the story.
nice !!
I wish they had shown Scotty on the bridge and also seeing the exterior of the 1701-D and admiring the beauty of the modern technology etc. Also would have been nice to hear Picard or data mention oh yeah we met Bones and we met Spock..you should give them a call lol. Scotty was promoted to Captain way back in Star Trek 3. Captain is a rank as well as a position…2 different things. For example most of the ships captains in the US Navy are actually commanders in rank…only the largest ships have captains that are also holding the rank of Captain. Overall I loved the combination of nostalgia and also pure sci fi of an actual dysons sphere…and yes it was the size of 250 MILLON class M planets. They referenced elan or troyus and also wolf in the fold from TOS. And the TNG episode with space baby thing and spoiled milk. The one overall weakness for me was treating Scotty a bit dismissive…like yes he can’t just slide into being an engineer until he catches up…but the man is a living legend…that kid who showed him his quarters and everyone else (especially Geordi) should have been way more awestruck and excited. Picard was though and that was nice to see and a beautiful scene on the recreated 1701 Bridge. And it was kinda a bit rude to just essentially say hey so thanks for saving our ass old man, here is a tiny little shuttle, now get out please we have work to do and places to go…hope you manage to find somewhere to go and don’t get lost 🙄🙄
It’s kinda funny but because of 5 and 6.. the interiors are not that different anymore..
Probably already said, but your bridge greenscreen assumption was what was being planned until...word got out to the fan community about the episode. Immediately, several fans offered to loan and had shipped to Paramount their bridge recreations for use in "Relics."
W fans
So about the writing process - from what I've read, someone had pitched a story involving the transporter loop idea, and while they didn't like the story, they bought it because Michael Piller had the idea that they could use it as a way to bring a TOS character back. They debated which character to use, but knew they couldn't use Spock or McCoy since we'd already seen them, and they felt like bringing Kirk back would be too big a thing for a one-off episode, so they settled on Scotty. The script was assigned to Ron Moore because he was the biggest TOS fan on the writing team. For the bridge set, they initially thought it would be too expensive, but Ron Moore pushed for them to find a way to do it. Eventually, they came up with a way to build only part of the set and use blue screen for the rest. The footage used for the blue screen was from the TOS episode "This Side of Paradise", from the scene where the bridge is empty. The captain's chair was actually a fan-built chair that had been made for a convention.
That shot from “This Side of Paradise” is the only time in the entire TOS that we see the bridge empty of people.
Speaking to how this is more like you wanted the Spock episode. I feel like sometimes that can be a fault of some of the writers of these kinds of things. They get into their head that they are an artist and they can't just do some fun, nostalgic fan servicey story. Like they're too good for that. Sometimes, that's just the assignment! It's that kind of writer's reasoning that makes them convince themselves that, say, Luke, Han and Leia shouldn't meet up and have a fun adventure together in the SW sequels. I'm not a "hater" of those movies, but sometimes in a franchise, you SHOULD give fans what they want.
Terry Matalis has entered the chat :)
I had the old man Scotty action figure back when I was a kid.
It's funny, Scotty dying never even occurred to me the first time I watched it, but rewatching it this time, I can see how it might feel like a possibility. Definitely feels like something modern television would do...
After turning off "Farpoint" half way through for being dull, I hadn't watched a TNG for 30 yrs, and then while it was on Netflix I read about this episode and watched it. It's one of the best episodes. Scotty > entire TNG crew.
nice you've got so many star trek episodes to catch up on
So either only Alex is unlucky with people spoiling things, or Josh just doesn't listen to people very well.
I think my concussions were more severe - Josh
For everyone wondering where Troi was this episode here’s her scene that was cut: https://youtu.be/v7MZb93Xxww?si=LqoBp2LBcA_IEFUx
I mentioned it in my patron take, hopefully they read and reacted to it!
While the Dyson sphere B-story is pretty perfunctory, I do like that we get an engineering miracle in the same episode as the engineering miracle worker.
its pretty special considering its source idea being real world sci fi author
Awesome, simply awesome.
There's a deleted scene from this episode that's included in the Blu-Ray!
People have done the math: This Dyson sphere is the same diameter as the Earth's ORBIT around the sun. That's like 200 million kilometers in diameter, averaged, since the orbit is not perfectly circular. And 200 is an easier number. Applying the formular for surface of a sphere, that makes for an area of 125 quadrillion, 700 million square kilometers. If the Federation has around 150 member worlds of Earth-similar size, that means the Dyson sphere has a surface area around 1.6 million times larger than the entire United Federation of Planets. /nerd
Yeah, I think the crux didn't sink in with them: it's building a giant sphere around a star at the distance the Earth is from the Sun. Besides being non practical, it would be an incredibly difficult feat no matter how technologically sophisticated your society is.
The surface area of Earth is about 197,000,000 mi² (510 000 000 km²). The internal surface area of that Dyson sphere would be about 12,140,000,000,000,000 mi² (31 400 000 000 000 000 km²).
I'm telling you guys, you gotta watch For All Mankind from Ron Moore for the channel. It is so freaking good. It's kinda like a prequel Trek show.
For All Mankind is very much alternative history imo. Its very well done, if a little heavy on the messaging at times.
This is not just a great Scotty appearance... It's one of his best. Very heartfelt and emotional
Its pretty good..but honestly the movie era scotty around Star Trek 4 and later was turned into a bit of comedic bafoon, Vs the usually more serious and intense TOS era 2nd officer & Chief Engineer Scotty.....its especially stands out when you see how physically different movie era Scotty is from TOS scotty as well
Alex: "I don't forget things that are a detriment to my happiness." Same. Same. ..... *sigh*
Boy, the fact you couldn't have that donut just eats at you, huh?
Lol Star Trek slander!!! For shame! Haha I still love TUC but there is also alot of nostalgia there, first trek film seeing in the theater and I remember all the pre-release trailers/hype. Just saw a delted Scotty/Troi scene the other day I hadn't seen. On youtube.
Just finished... and I rate this reaction & episode a... yeSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! Also, loving the intros this season. Great work guys.
Episode 238, at this moment in time, marks the beginning of the 2nd quarter of all of trek
🤯
I have been waiting for this episode since I first found you guys on YouTube and realized how much you loved the TOS characters. Like Josh said this was a great episode in regards to nostalgia. It's one of my favorite episodes for call backs to original characters. It was emotional, sentimental and TOS feel in how they rescued Enterprise D with a crazy plan. Glad you guys appreciated it as much I still do. *No Spoiler* Oh and the dyson spere is a real theory, I googled it a few years go.
No tears, but they were close!
I love the By Any Other Name “it’s green!” reference
Yes they missed that!
Don't worry about it, fellas - Scotty on the Enterprise bridge means we break out the Kleenex every single time. Jimmy Doohan was marvelous in that scene.
20:54 In "Up the Long Ladder" it was mentioned that replicators can provide authentic adult beverages if desired.
The only thing missing in this episode would be Scotty following Geordi on one of his infamously cringe dates and just roasting the shit out of his rizz.
wasnt it kind of a thing that Scotty wasnt great with the ladies either? Like wasnt there an episode where they are trying to set him up or something? Or just that he was not that interested cause he was too into engines? It's kind of the stereotype of engineer types not being great with the ladies
Oh boy, I've been waiting for this episode
I've been looking forward to this
I always tear up at Scotty on the old Enterprise Bridge.
5:25 Josh's non-reaction! LOL!!!
I'm just going to say it even if most people will probably disagree but Scotty was disrespectful and annoying. Had someone acted on his Enterprise as he did on the D he would have ripped their head off. Imagine someone walking into Scotty's engineering room and starting to screw with things he didn't understand because his knowledge was decades out of date.
I don't think too many would disagree, just that it's possible for Scotty's behaviour to be both annoying but also understandable...
WOOHOO!! My whole family enjoyed this one! To this day I still use something related to the "never tell them how long it take if you want them to think you're a miracle worker" Yeah I know that's not the quote, but that sentiment I've used frequently in my job. "This...is NOT Scotch!" "It is GREEN!" (Not sure if you catch that throwback)
Yes! Grabbing coffee and enjoying this one. Thank you! "That's no moon.." What a great watch! I love when trek goes above and beyond just for the fans.
Show me the S Tier! No bloody A, B, C or D.
Perfect use of that line.
Gah! And I'm stuck at work! An hour and a half to go!!
If you want, I can call your work and tell them your cat has a cold, and you need to leave early..!
Let's forkin' GOOOOOOO!! *Pours out a Single Malt* Sorry, Alex. Fireball takes a break this week.
Scotch. Neat. 👍🏼