PATRON TAKES - TNG S6E10&11
TAKES WILL BE READ 4/10
Comments (121)
Jellico is (early) Season 1 Picard. And he gets it done. 👍🏼
'Alex and Josh - I prefer a certain... formality while on the channel. I'd appreciate it if you both wore standard uniform while you're reacting.'
Ahh, the Cardassians!
How do you feel about this being the last TNG story before you transition to watching DS9 for a while?
Just what Josh and Alex need before meeting a new crew, an arrogant new Captain, and Picard being captured by Cardassians😂
What I love here is Captain Jellico isn’t a villain at all, just a different Captain with a different command style. It’s effectively Kirk vs. Picard, in that Jellico, like Kirk, was more “SHOOT HIM!!!” vs. Picard who favors diplomacy above all. Fun Fact: Captain Picard was supposed to say “Set course for Deep Space Nine” in a scene long crossover for DS9 for them getting transport, but due to the scheduling, DS9 hadn’t premiered yet, so that made very little sense. Instead we got random name planet
He's kind-of a villain. He is ordered to throw the status quo of the show into total disarray. He doesn't like how Picard does (did) things, and he doesn't like Riker at all. He doesn't listen to his crew and does not respect them as officers or subordinates.
I signed up for this Patreon specifically for this episode. This and its lead up to DS9 are peak TV, and its perfect culmination of facing "what Star Trek is" versus what it seeks to be. The Cardassians are great villains. Jellico is a great foil to the enterprise crew. Easiest S of my life, can't wait for your Deep Space 9 reactions too.
I wouldn't want Jellico as my captain or boss, but I do like that the episode doesn't treat him as "the villain." He has his method which at the end of the day did work, and he is the one who leads the Enterprise to rescuing Picard.
The first duty of every Starfleet Officer is to wear a uniform, Troi!
I really enjoy this two-parter. You get some Cardassian background, which is really, really good to have, and you also get Troi in a uniform, which was something Sirtis had requested to be allowed to wear a uniform for YEARS, and they finally granted her request. I think it makes her a more real character instead of Lieutenant Commander Cleavage.
Troi looks good in a uniform 😍 David Warner took over the role of Gul Madred on three days' notice. He could not learn his lines in that short time, so he had to use cue cards. He said, "Every line I said, I actually was reading it over Patrick Stewart's shoulder or they put it down there for me to do it. After I finished it, I thought it worked, which obviously it did.".Patrick Stewart prepared for the scenes of torture by reviewing tapes provided by Amnesty International. He agreed to perform the first torture scene naked, but only as long as it was on a closed set.Due to budget considerations, a bigger on-screen confrontation between the Enterprise and the Cardassians in the nebula had to be scrapped.
Assuming the events of "The Wounded" happened differently, I wonder how this episode would have turned out if it was Captain Ben Maxwell (not Jellico) who was made captain of the Enterprise...
Maxwell would have detonated the mines without a warning because Maxwell knew the Federation was already at war.
Jellicoe was a military commander, Jellicoe did nothing wrong. whip the crew into combat readiness if anything the enterprise crew acted unprofessional, they were going into a combat situation and needed to be prepared, instead they threw a tantrum because Jellicoe wasn't their real dad, i think in a more peaceful setting they could have adapted but time was not on their side. but what do you guys think was he a good captain?
I dont know why but i always have to think about the celebrity deathmatch between Stalllone and Schwarzenegger. "Stallone, do you know where you are? Are you ok? How many Fingers am i holding up?" I know it's Stupid but my brain is like that. Besides. One of the best Episodes/2parter for me with A/S rating for 10/11
Patrick Stewart is the GOAT
Captain Jellico was a hardass, but that’s life in the military. Geordi & Riker needed to remember that they are in a military organization, suck it up, and do their job. And Riker was borderline insubordinate.
Episode one is so-so. Episode two is top five in the *franchise*. I think the stuff with Picard is so obviously good that there isn't a whole lot that needs to be said about it. Patrick Stewart has an all time performance, and David Warner as his opponent also gives one of the best performances of his career, something that reminds in quality (not in the plot) of another top, top tier performance from another famous character actor in an early DS9 episode. The stuff on the Enterprise is another matter and it is also engaging and inspires genuine emotion. The question of how to view Jellico is a controversial one, with fans usually - from what I've seen - being fairly split on the issue. To me, the most compelling case I've read was from a former military officer who went in some detail in to a variety of reasons why Jellico's command style and choices would be quite harmful. I can't adequately explain his entire line of reasoning in a comment so I won't try, but suffice it to say he made a very good case that making so many rapid changes mixed with the my way or the highway attitude is something he had seen in the real military and it tended to end badly. Still, even with a character that inspires such strong negative emotions as Jellico does from so many in the audience, he still manages to be a character that at the end of the day you can't help but respect at least a little bit and comes through when he needs to. It is all around a stellar episode, one that is at least in *contention* for the best that the entire franchise has to offer.
Patrick Steward hits it out of the park, again. And David Warner, RIP, is no slouch.
For those who haven't served, the chain of command exists for a reason. Maybe your commander is too busy to explain everything, or has intel he can't discuss, or maybe is just tired. In any case, it becomes your responsibility to help them by enacting the plan. Questioning everything, dragging your feet, and fomenting dissent only serves to distract your commander's limited attentions -- to the detriment of everyone. Riker expected this of Shelby, same as Jelico of Riker
A fantastic two-parter. This comes in my top 20 episodes of TNG. Obviously both an S, though i prefer the second part. The Cardassian Picard faces is played by the fantastic actor, David Warner. He appeared in The Final Frontier as the human 'hostage' and The Undiscovered Country as the Klingon, Gorkon that Kirk was accused of assassinating. David Warner has starred in other great films such as The Omen, and In The Mouth Of Madness. Additionally, the reason Captain Jellico ordered Troi to wear a proper uniform is because Marina Sirtis had requested that she wear one.
I just realised maybe i shouldn't have mentioned David Warner being in The Undiscovered Country... Alex sees this, gets PTSD and changes his ranking from S to E😂😂😂
A lot of people hated Jellico, but there is much time be said for having the right person in the right place at the right time. Jellico is a GOOD captain, and he was who this mission needed to have taking lead. He wasn't who we wanted, and he did things differently than we liked, but he was who we needed.
As I imagine most people do, I really love this two-parter. Really interesting, well-executed premise with a memorable guest captain, a memorable villain, real tension in both story lines, and some provocative moments. Shout out to David Warner's great performance as Gul Madred, along with Ronny Cox as Captain Jellico. And yes, I think Jellico can get a bad wrap because he does make some good points and proves to have merit, however I would point out he didn't have to be so difficult, short, and abrasive with the crew. Regardless, it was certainly entertaining watching him shake things up.
Add me to the "I like Jellico" list. I like anyone giving the crew a little kick in the rear to maybe appreciate what they've got in Picard. Jellico does have a point that with this mission he doesn't have time right now to let the crew get used to him. Long term, I bet he would. But since they don't have time for that right now, the crew should have to deal with it. There is a military side to Starfleet and sometimes you have to just deal with it! But Riker is also kind of right about him.
Jellico did nothing wrong.
Aaaaaah, yes. Finally. Captain Jellico has been a very polarizing figure these last 30 years, inspiring a lot of debate! This was a very welcome shaking-up of things.
JLP: "And if you're not down with that, I got four words for ya!"
Honestly, I think Jellico is a decent Captain. Bit of a hardass but he knows what needs to be done.
Did a quick rewatch after reading the comments about Jellico and Riker, and they're both wrong and both right is the issue. Jellico needs to give the crew time to do their job, including Riker, and redirecting 1000 people from a exploratory vessel to combat is a massive job, and will take more than a few hours to get into gear. I think if Riker had said "apologies Captain, it'll take an extra shift or two to change personal schedules" and pointed out a Galaxy class is a much different ship to an Excelsior class. After that though, Jellico writes Riker off and doesn't let him do his job, instead using Data. Riker otherwise does his job, and simply states Kellico doesn't want to discuss things with him, which is true. He only gets in his face about Picard not getting legal protection, and being Petty at the End with the shuttle bit. Jellico is right though that the ship needs to be prepped for full combat operations, and they need to get shit done, however it should have been here's the things we need to get done in x number of days, talk to the Senior Staff, and then they could pull science crews to Engineering positions temporarily, and work a schedule and change the duty Roster at the same time. It really felt like new manager syndrome, changing things for the sake of change, and not listening or working with people in place to make it work correctly.
My view could be hindered by knowing what's to come, but it seems like the Enterprise crew does not truly respect the nature of the Cardassian threat they are about to encounter and that's why I remember Jellico being right and them being awfully whiny about following orders for people who are quasi-military officers (in a similar way as when Kurn was first officer).
This is my favorite depiction of torture in a fictional story. Chain of Command shows it for what it really is. Unreliable, psychological, and more about the torturer exerting power over his victim. The battle of wills between the two men is just so gripping. David Warner reportedly had to fill in for Gul Madred only a few days before shooting. Despite having to read his lines off of cue cards behind Patrick Stewart, he turns in my absolute favorite guest performance in the whole series. He is so chilling and cruel, yet charismatic.
Spoilers for future Trek mate, I'm not sure if they've seen ST2009 so may be worth editing this out 👍🏼
My opinion of Jellico has changed over the years. Sure his style is different, but he never asked anything unreasonable of the crew. Riker comes off as a whiney cry baby. Starfleet is an organization with militaristic traditions, and when your CO gives you orders, shut up and do it. Love the insights we get into Cardassian history in Part 2 and Gul Lemek is the slimiest looking Cardassian ever. Bravo to David Warner for his portrayal of Gul Madred, his casting came a few days before filming so he didn’t have time to learn his lines. Even in SD his line reading was obvious. I blame the director for that one. A crime Stewart didn’t get an Emmy for this. Rated S for “Sir Patrick was robbed”
Definitely reads that way! I fixed it!
Team Jellico here. Is he a dick? Sure. But with a purpose. He motivates the crew. Gets the ship in order. Works over the Cardassians.
By the time these episodes aired on British TV (every Wednesday, BBC2, 6pm). I was ALMOST what you might call a "trekkie", managing to catch every episode from "I, Borg" to "Realm of Fear". It was only within the last 5 years, when watching reruns on TV, that I caught something I'd never noticed before; Picard singing the French song "Sur le Pont d'Avignion (l'on y danse, l'on y danse)" in his attempt to distract himself from the pain caused by the torture device. That is such a Picard thing to do. I don't know who added that into the script, or if it was Patrick Stewart himself who did an ad lib, but kudos to whoever it was! (The only reason I know that song is because it appeared on a VHS tape that my parents bought for my younger brother, to help him learn French)
Troi finally gets to dress like a real member of the crew and her uniform is far more flattering to her than her skintight catsuits. Marina wanted this for a long time. I like Part 2 much more than Part 1 but both are great. And P-Stew really did that scene nude on a closed set. What a trooper. A "Best of the Best" ranking from me for both parts.
Data looks great in red
the fact that these episodes are before DS9 is perfect! Hang in there with the first two seasons of DS9. It comes into its own nicely in the third season. As for these eps, I think the conflict in the ship is a little tedious. The Picard stuff in the second ep is great.
They're already committed to watching all of Star Trek, you know. 🙂
Put two amazing actors in a minimalist set and have them reflect off each other with a powerful script. At that point you transcend Trek and Trek ratings and you just have first class drama that you can put up against anything anywhere. All the rest, even the really good Trek parts, pales by comparison.
Although he was a dick, Captain Jellico was right. More militaristic and less diplomatic than Picard for sure. But at the end of the day, he got the job done.
There seems to be some feeling in these comments that the writers messed up somehow by making the Riker-Jellico feud ambiguous about who's in the right. That's why it's awesome!
It's not ambiguous: they were BOTH in the wrong. And THAT is why it's awesome!
I just have to say…after reading quite a few anti-Riker and his behavior comments on this thread…what episode were you watching?? It was clear from the start that Jellico was not a fan of the man, and that he was not willing to give Riker or anyone else in the crew “a chance”. I have personally had my share of tyrannical bosses in my life and they all deserved a colossal “go fuck yourself”. This is not a lack of discipline on my part, especially considering how long I tolerated those situations. Maybe as a middle-aged man, I just have zero fucks left to give and I look back and wonder why I put up with it. Riker’s speech to Jellico at the end were words Jellico needed to hear. There is a way to command and inspire others that doesn’t include being an asshole, even in the military. And Riker was the captain who beat the Borg. He earned that swagger and respect.
Well stated!
Best two parter hands down.
This 2-parter pair of episodes is infamous in Trek lore, for good reason. It shatters the usual formula of the show, and shakes things up for better and for worse. The formalities of the change of command was pretty jarring back in the day. I wonder how you two will react to it. This episode has no shortage of entertainment value. It is not perfect and has its flaws, but this is peak Trek. It's also peak Picard. I like Admiral Nechayev. She exudes the "je ne sais quoi" of being an admiral in Starfleet. Gul Madred's character is one of the best guest characters of all TNG, and David Warner nails it under Robert Scheerer's direction. Almost all of this episode is riveting, and there is hardly any wasted screen time. The final scene with Picard and Troi is their best scene together ever. "A" rating (both together)
This being episodes 10 and 11, it would normally split TA episodes. I am wondering how you'll handle this. Hopefully you do both of these on the same day and combine them together.
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!!! By far, this is Patrick Stewart greatest performance. This could only be accomplished with great writing and guest performances. You are now set to begin IMO the greatest Star Trek series created and this episode is the perfect set up for the Cardassians and Deep Space Nine!!! I’ve been waiting for this for 2 1/2 years. (Been watching since Wrath of Khan) Love the reviews guys!!!
In my opinion, the best two parter. If the Cardassians were set up as master connivers, this episode cements them as a pure evil and real threat. David Warner as Gul Madred was just superb against an amazing Stewart. And as much as they want to preset Jellico as just an asshole, he was right on all his moves, he’s just not Picard or charming, but his a good captain. I assume some people might hate this cause it uses the enterprise and weakens Picard to show that the Cardassians are a real threat, but, how else would you know ? An S and another
***When Riker gets passed up for promotion he should retort "I was Captain of this ship, I beat the Borg." Every time his superiors flip him shit or question his ability he should simply say "I beat the Borg."*** ...At the same time he comes off awful in this episode. He doesn't follow orders. He argues with his captain. He acts like an entitled dick when Jelicho asks him to his job and fly the shuttle. His fall from the grace of S2 through the Best of Both Worlds is complete. What is great about this episode is a much as the crew paints Jelicho as the villain, not only is he right about handling the Cardassians, he rescues Picard on top of everything. This episode was done to introduce DS9 and it's a low key great introduction. The DS9 crew would never be this naive about going into battle or dealing with Cardassians.
Offers him a commission, Riker refuses Orders someone else to command, Riker pouts Riker is the most tsundere bridge officer ever
My second favorite 2-parter of TNG. Stewart really gets to flex his acting muscles here. David Warner plays such great villains. "How many lights do you see?" Straight out of George Orwell's 1984. A more modern analogy would be: How big a crowd do you see on the mall? Classic form of power control and a test to break a person (or the people's) will. I like Ronny Cox as Jellico, too. A lot of fans are turned off by him and think of him as bad guy or jerk, but I don't see it that way. He's a good captain who just has a very different style than Picard, and it rubs the crew, who are familiar with another leadership style, the wrong way. But Jellico is used to great effect behind the scenes, too: 1) Stewart argued the captain would not keep a creature like fish a captive in his ready room in the 24th century; 2) Marina Sirtis had been begging the producers to let her wear a real Starfleet uniform again, and so now she does.
I like Jellico too, but only so far. The crew did not take the change of command well, and part of Riker's job is to execute that transition as smoothly as possible. On the other hand, Jellico was not very captainly in his new command. He stopped being a captain of a crew (if he ever was one) and turned into an authoritarian in command of the flagship. I always presumed that the distinction and prestige of where he was and the pressure on him went to his head. It is his job to lead and not just bark orders, and he failed at that. Riker failed at carrying-out his orders. It was basically everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
As an Admiral I send Picard to negotiate with the Klingons, but I absolutely send Jellico to negotiate with the Cardassians. You just can't trust those Cardies! S - For 'Series Defining' When you look back at TNG, this is one of the episodes that will come to mind. It's only held back by a hatred for Jellico, but on subsequent rewatches everyone I know has come around on the guy.
This episode has complex characters, which always makes any drama much more interesting and deep!
I loved Ronny Cox in “RoboCop” and “Total Recall”. He just plays such an awesome asshole! Captain Jellico is no exception! I loved David Warner in “Time After Time” and “The Omen”, not to mention as Chancellor Gorkon in “Star Trek VI”. His gravitas made his performance as the Cardassian torturer Gul Madred positively chilling. But most of all, kudos to Patrick Stewart and to yet another incredible performance! The man’s range is limitless. Not many actors are able to accurately and believably convey what it is to undergo torture. At this point in the man’s character…after everything he has endured over six seasons…Captain Picard is a freakin’ superhero. THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS!!!
Honestly my favorite two parter in all of Trek. Also Jellico is right...Riker is a insubordinate baby.
But Riker is also right: Jellico isn't leading his crew, he's just an authoritarian.
I would have liked to see Captain Jellico in earlier episodes and maybe his own series..This also would have been the better cliffhanger than Times Arrow..
S tier. Best Stewart performance in my opinion. A realistic depiction of torture. Troi in a standard uniform. Great stuff!
So now you guys have met Admiral Bitch-ayev.
Current US politics in a nutshell. Just believe what we say, not what you see.
This episode really shows how Riker has made a career out maximizing being in 2nd place. There is nothing wrong with that, a service requires such people. But he's not captain for a reason.
He's not captain because he chooses not to be. "Why, Riker? Why? Why do you persist [here]?" "Because I choose to remain on the Enterprise."
I love this 2 parter, and holding my breath on what you guys will think of it. No spoilers but how you feel about this episode may set the stage for how you feel about another Star Trek series around the corner.
I'd rather talk about this episode than rewatch it. I have a love for Ronny Cox scenes and the pettiness of Riker in all this, (especially in contrast to the B plot), however, that B plot, I remembered Picard suffering and seeming to have no hope. The disconnect of the enterprise crew from Picard really makes his scenes drag on. It's one to talk about I think, one to remember.
Everyone is going to complain about Jellicoe. I loved him! There’s nothing wrong with having a different style of command, and frankly, Riker came off looking really childish here. One of Star Trek’s longest living memes was born in this one. (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!)
This was good but after a while I was finding the Picard stuff repetitive. I guess I just don't care about Picard enough to get excited because he is crying. I liked the other Capt and the ship, but I don't know in real life what's supposed to happen: does a new Capt try to work and fit in with a crew, or does the Crew just have to throw out their culture and build a new one?
It’s the second 😀
These episodes are freaking amazing taken together. The first part, as with all TNG two-parters, is a bit weaker but GODDAMN! The second episode is a masterpiece. Patrick Stewart should have won an award for his work on this one. S-tier all the way.
Huh. I think of Star Trek two-parters as almost universally worse in their second half. This being a rare exception.
This is probably the best episode in all of TNG. The conflict between Jellico and Riker is amazing. The guest actor who plays the Cardassian is the single best guest actor in the entire show. His scenes with Picard are INCREDIBLE. This episode is just perfect.
Captain Jellico is my all time favourite Captain in Trek as a whole, a combat oriented officer who gets the job done and doesn't mince his words. He puts Troi in a uniform (finally), has zero tolerance for Riker's attitude problem and makes Data his First Officer. Legend! =D
Also, Jellico is: - A family man - Gives the crew a 6 hours work day instead of 8 - Has an appropriate amount of disdain for those damn Cardie bastards
Damn. I do kinda wish you reviewed these as seperate. The first part is all about how our crew works for Dick Jones, who despite seeming no-nonsense actually is advocating for 6 hour shifts, and manages to get Troi into a uniform, which is the best she's ever looked, IMO. The second part is all about the interplay of of Gul Madrid and Picard in the torture room. Yeah, it's been memed to hell, but it's still incredibly powerful stuff. It's a major 2-parter as well in that it establishes a treaty with Cardassia, reshaping the layout of the quadrant and experimenting with a darker tone for the franchise.
So much to say about this two-parter and everything it establishes. The torture scenes really bothered me when I first saw this and I really didn't like Jellico, but that has really changed and it's definitely some of the best acting in the series. I'm 56 now and I find that I'm a lot more like Jellico than Picard. The conflict between Riker and Jellico is great. Jellico treating Troi like any other Starfleet officer and requiring her to wear the uniform is great. I know it's something Marina Sirtis wanted too. Red doesn't look good on Data though. DS9 is next!!! S+
The only thing about the conflict there is that it's pretty contrived. Riker should not have been in conflict with his captain, no matter his personal feelings. (And Jellico, as the crew's supreme leader, was not behaving as much of a leader.)
One of the most memed episodes of TNG... and an unofficial hand-off to DS9.
I may be in the minority here but I think Jellico was right and Riker was acting immaturely. It's called chain of command for a reason. I know we aren't supposed to like Jellico and Riker is in a sense our own rebellion against him. But if you think about it, he's being overly emotional. Which might be understandable, but also unprofessional in my opinion. Picard and Gul Madred dynamic is one of the best, if not THE best, acting performances in all of Star Trek. It is very disturbing, but so impactful. Picard singing while in agony of the pain Madred causes him is chilling. Also David Warner read most of his dialogue of off cue cards that he was reading over Stewards' shoulder. S for being in up there in the stratosphere with rare selected few that merit it.
The older I get the more I like Jelico.
Me still getting those asshole vibes from Jellico. I did like that he removed fish tank. It was absolutely unethical.
Troi, put on a uniform!
YES SIR! 🫡 (Marina Sirtis LOVED that, BTW. She "got her brains" back finally.)
More Picard trauma, splendid! Some of the changes Jellico implemented were actually ways to satisfy requests from the cast. Stewart objected to the idea that Picard would keep an animal captive, and Sirtis wanted to start wearing a uniform. It's a very welcome change IMO as it helps you take her seriously as a starfleet officer.
Picard must suffer! Part, what, IV?
My choice of the most mean characters in this Episode. Gul Madred, Captin Jellico, and Admeral Nachayev. The admiral was the worst in my opinion. Troy having to start wearing a stndard uniform was Marina's idea. She thought is was high time for Deanna to ware a regular uniform like everyone else. Now DS9 Starts.
This really is the cold opener in time and spirit for DS9 isn't it? I like that sentiment.
My favourite TNG story. Jellico on the Enterprise is like Frank Grimes on the Simpsons — what would happen if a ‘real’ person met our beloved characters. Along with Matt Decker and a character in NuTrek one of the three best guest bridge officers. Then comes Part 2, which is brilliantly written and acted. “There are four lights” is the meme but there are at least ten bits of back and forth between Stewart and Warner that are just as good. Bonus points for being the TNG ep most like DS9. Bottomless SSSSS.
Picard broke his torturer with that line. So well executed.
S tier, legendary pair of episodes, should have been a season finale really as it’s the strongest 2-parter since Redemption.
Hot damn, a top level amazing couple of episodes that I cannot praise highly enough
"There are four lights!"
The highest of S tiers for me. This is one we've been sitting around and waiting for since Encounter at Farpoint. Patrick Stewart vs David Warner (RIP) should be studied in acting schools. David Warner was restrained but powerful. Patrick Stewart was vulnerable but strong. Picard may have been affected more than even what the Borg did to him, and he lets Troi do her job.
Agree with everything you wrote here. Patrick Stewart and David Warner fully earn their paychecks and then some.
I love everything about this 2 parter. Picard and Madred of course, but the B plot on the Enterprise with Jellico at times I almost find more interesting and that's a big feat. Whatever scene they cut to or away from, I'm never disappointed. Pretty rare!
There's a reason they keep inviting David Warner back to play yet another character. THIS is the reason. Some of his and Sir Patrick Steward's best performances. They bounce off each other so well. On the Jellico side... (maybe a hot take? idk) I know we're suppose to not like him, but the older I get, the more and more I start to take his side in every decision he makes in these two episodes. He's just being a good leader trying to prepare the crew and ship for the mission ahead and doing it for the good of everyone. And a bit of Trivia: DS9's delayed released caused them to have to rewrite a scene with the Ferengi. Otherwise that scene would have taken place on DS9 with a main character from that show. But alas... "first world problems."
I can't agree with you on Jellico. If he's not going to at least consult the senior staff, then, at the very least, not involving Riker in the reason for his decisions, is poor leadership. "I know it will be a hardship on the crew, but we need a 4 team rotation now for this reason. We're under intense conditions right now. The next several days are not going to be easy, but I know this team can do it." Just barking random orders does not make you a leader.
Jellico’s line of preferring formality on the bridge was Marina Sirtis behind the scenes saying how come I don’t get to wear a starfleet uniform? So it was integrated in this way. Picards torture is peak TNG you’ve reached the highest high IMO in TNG. There are Four Lights! Alex & Josh, we need a 3 episode shift rotation, GET IT DONE!
"Alex & Josh, we need a 3 episode shift rotation, GET IT DONE!" XD XD XD
S for Superb guest stars - pouring one out for both Ronny "Get It Done" Cox and David "Five Lights" Warner (RIP). Possibly the two strongest and most memorable guest performances in TNG, both in the same story. I say this as a serving military officer - yes Jellico is a hard ass, but hes got a job to do and no time to do it. Riker's expectations as a diplomat and explorer needed to take a back seat, and it makes him look hopelessly naive here. Loved that the Jellico character was used as a way for the cast and crew to shake up elements of the show as it was going into its final run - Troi got a uniform, Picard lost his fishtank, and the crew got a much needed kick up the ass - even breaking Picard to do it. A perfect set up to new adventures on the final frontier...
I like the fact that Jellico could have easily been a badmiral. But he’s just got a different command style to Picard. Props for getting Troi into a proper uniform as well.
A personal favourite two part episode of mine. Why Picard and Crusher are chosen for a commando mission? beats me, but I don't care. Well shot, well acted and well written.
Yeah, one of the WTF flaws in this episode, even though they tried to explain it away.
Even when subjected to the 24th century equivalent of crucifixion, Picard still knows how to diss a guy.
There… are… TWO… PARTS!
How many parts do you see? Tell me you see 3 parts.
This two parter is the final proof why Riker would be a horrible captain. He acts like a child because he doesn't get his way, he undermines Jellico at every opportunity, he insists on running head first into the cardassian trap with a rescue mission for Picard and doesn't even get that his is exactly what the cardassians want when it's spelled out to him And the worst part, when Jellico swallows his pride and asks Riker to pilot the shuttle craft for the good of the mission Riker acts like a smarmy ass and makes Jellico say please. Riker proofed that Jellico is the bigger man, what an idiot.
I completely agree, I don’t know what they were thinking when writing for Riker in this episode. Jellico could have done several things differently but there is no excuse for Riker to behave like he did.
Oh this two parter is one of my faves. Love it. Part 2 is a masterclass in acting from Patrick Stewart and David Warner Troi being put in uniform is one of the shows best decisions Jellico - yes he maybe a dick but he’s not a bad captain I like seeing a different style of command The new Cardsssian uniforms look great, they look so much better than they did previously. The Cardassians here are truly threatening. Then you have that final, chilling scene where you realise Picard was broken.
This is a big one, we really get the more developed Cardassians here, new outfits developed for DS9, a better look into their culture. Also interesting to see the perspective of a more military officer than Picard in command, as Jellico is definitely a military man. Note David Warner, who played Chancellor Gorkon in ST6, is back as Gul Madred, and was cast last minute, didn't have time to read the script, and did his role entirely off cue cards, and fucking nailed it. Also, Troi gets to wear the uniform, which looks better on her than the catsuits, so much improvement.
There's been so many good performances by Patrick Stewart in the series, but I really think we're hitting the highest of the highs here with his scenes with Gul Madred. For me, the most haunting part of the final scene isn't that Picard was about to capitulate to his torturer but was interupted, it's that he actually believed he could see the five lights. Gul Madred actually broke him, which is something only the Borg have ever accomplished.
Gul Madred broke Picard and he'll never know. Love that Picard opens up to Troi at the end, no "I'm quite recovered" type of bullshit. And I can't believe I'm finally saying it, but onto Deep Space Nine!!
"Chain of Command - The DS9 Prequel", as a perfect lead in to the new series' premier...
Sir Patrick came up through the same drama school after David Warner and had always wanted to work with him, but never got the chance until now. Amnesty International actually gave Patrick Stewart real footage of torture to watch in order to hone his performance. David Warner was also the Federation representative on Nimbus III in The Final Frontier and Chancellor Gorkon in The Undiscovered Country.
THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
Not to jump the gun or be super reductive and miss the point.. but I am looking forward to the very next episode of Star Trek that you watch, After this one. Oh this one's great too, but you know. There's more going on than Picard's lil corner of the cosmos. This is maybe some of Stewart's best acting in the show to date and that's already saying something. It doesn't top the emotion in Sarek imo, but he has an equally talented actor to work off of in this set of scenes, I think that's why it has so much lasting impact. Star treks best scenes in my opinion could equally be performed on the stage with no special effects and minimal makeup. The conflict the pathos it's all right there. Yet with the Borg it was over in minutes for us, but we see a lot more of the physical and psychological torture he endures in this ordeal 🔥
Feeling exactly the same - two two-parters right after another... 👍🏼
