PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E23
What tier do you rate Star Trek TNG S5E23?
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This poll will remain open, so feel free to revisit this once you watch our UNCUT reaction, YouTube edited reaction, or at any point throughout the season before our recap!
Comments (87)
From this point on, all of the countless lives lost, every species assimilated, and all the civilizations destroyed by the Borg - everywhere in the galaxy - are the result of The Picard's inability to do the right thing. How many billions of innocent beings were ultimately sacrificed simply because The Picard felt sorry for one Borg drone?
Wow, the responses to how people like or dislike this episode are all over the place! That goes to show when that happens, it's probably a great story that brings people to it from a wide variety of perspectives. Excellent writing and production values, Star Trek!
Borg are people, too. (Well, the were, anyway.)
Definitely an S. This touches on the effect of the Borg on Picard and Guinan. Great Geordie episode as well. Wow… when a Hugh used “I” instead of “we”. And that look to Geordie at the end. This is one of my favorite TNG episodes.
Out of character for everyone. The Borg. Picard. Guinan.
Another great ethical dilemma episode with some awesome character interactions, especially between Guinan and Picard.
Hugh is one of the most memorable characters in the entire franchise, a villain, who shows that they’re not truly a villain, but an entity caught in circumstance And the required adjustment of prejudices amongst the entire crew, and the growth and understanding that humanity can be found anywhere when nurtured
This has been one of my favorite episodes for a long time. Both Guinan AND Picard are WRONG! But they're also both able to admit it in the end. This did serve to make the Borg somewhat less scary, but only a little bit. And as this is the first time we've seen them since the beginning of Season 4, they're not being worn out. S-tier.
The way the show is able to show Picard being "off balance" without really any flawed behavior just shows its quality. Lots of bad tv would have a character yell or act stupid to show they are emotionally distressed, here Picard is acting normally, he is just doing so with more doubt in his voice, and more pauses before speaking. It's great subtle detail. Also it's interesting this might be the first time we ever seen Guinan be arguably "flawed". It's really well played, and does a great job of making it more impactful when she challenges Picard later. Also, there are no easy answers if what they did in the end was the right thing. S-tier.
this episode is "erased from canon" from me. It makes no sense. The idea that having Hugh be assimilated would introduce "individuality" to the borg, the borg assimilate species all the time and arent affected by their individuality.
I think its because normally their individuality is erased before they are fully integrated into the hive, whereas Hugh gets a split-second of full access before the contaminated thinking is reset. In real-world networking, secure access tokens grant instant access and therefore are used by hackers to implant malicious code. Thats how I see this episode. An accidental hacking of the Borg secure network. But again, to each their own
This episode does what Star Trek does best, it makes you think. Up to this point, the Borg have been like a force of nature. You can't reason with a hurricane. Picard was unwillingly assimilated and stripped of his individuality, but we knew there was still some of Picard in there. What about someone who has always been a part of the collective? Someone for whom the idea of individuality is unthinkable. How would they react to being cut off and alone? How would you react to that?
I like that Picard, the paradigm of ethics, is now consumed with revenge. It demonstrates that he's not completely healed from his Borg experience and might never be.
A definite fan favorite and one of mine.
Easy S great episode and the fencing scene is amazing
Another favorite of mine from this season. Definitely in the top 20 episodes of the whole series as well for me. Easily an 'S'.
The one episode where Guinan is learning a lesson. I really enjoy this episode. Every character has to overcome their past prejudices and biases when their roles are reversed facing a mortal enemy. All around great episode. A+ for me.
Credit where credit is due: this is the one way to bring the Borg back and have it not be silly. I would argue Picard's decision here isn't as hard as it could be because the Federation isn't on the verge of being conquered.
One change I would make is to keep Guinan on the opposing side of Hugh. From where she started it’s unrealistic to me how she changed her opinion so quickly and so drastically. Also, that would give Picard a little pressure on both sides.
I find Hugh is a juxtaposition to Data. A human modeled to be a machine, or vice versa?
When this was first shown, I didn't understand why Geordi chose the name "Hugh." Then we got to the scene where Hugh looks at Picard and says "I am Hugh" ("I am you") and I got it.
The scenes between Guinan/Hugh and Picard/Hugh are the best parts. Watching the characters soften toward the Borg was interesting, given the history.
Kirk *&* Picard: "Let them die." With you guys doing the shows & movies chronologically, I never realized how close in time these brief villain moments for the captains were. Star Trek 6 was only a month or two removed from Picard trying to go nuclear.
Point of order: Kirk's was *let* them die. Picard's was MAKE them die! One is "I don't care what happens to them," and one is "I want this to happen to them."
I bet you never expected to feel genuine hopefulness and then sorrow for a Borg drone...
From Picard and Guinan character flip to Beverly crusher being the absolute heart of this episode and it’s sad ending, yeah, this is an S… for all the small things! Yeah Picard should have talked to Troi after he talked to Hugh, but that’s not enough to drop this to an A for me !
One of my personal top ten, so a S from me for that reason alone.
After reading the comments, I think three things are clear: 1. A lot of people like this episode. 2. It's a great deal more controversial than I once thought. 3. Jovet REALLY doesn't like the Borg. I think someone he loved was assimilated. ;
Now I have to look for his comment…
Easy S tier for “son of a B this show is so good!” I never once thought I’d feel for a Borg before this episode, but to me Hugh is a little cybernetic treasure in Trek.
A great episode. Nice continuity with the Best of Both Worlds. Doing what Star Trek does best: presents us with a moral dilemma but does not give us an answer. Let each audience member decide what he/she thinks would be the correct response (which is exactly what we are seeing in this Patron discussion).
Well said!
Part of me is disappointed they didn't give "Hugh" the visual logic poison just so we could find out if it would have actually worked.
Good episode with a solid hook. I don't like them making Beverly the villain/devil's advocate. Usually she is all about respecting life in all its forms.
She sure doesn't respect viruses, and those are considered alive. Same for certain bacteria. At least prions are not alive.
Solid A episode, but not one of my favorites.
I just don't see how any individuality survives being attached to the Borg collective. At time of assimilation or after.
The flip side of the Prime Directive. The Borg are clearly a living, growing civilization with a unique culture. Picard really stays true to his absolute devotion to the Prime Directive (on a macro level).
I like this one. While the Borg are enjoyable villains, they are a bit one dimensional overall. From a writing stand point it would be tough to mine unique stories from a nameless, faceless, collective with one objective and (almost) no room for reason. I think this was a great direction to go with their story and watching the crew wrestle with this moral juggernaut of a problem was interesting. Starfleet seeks out new life, not to destroy it, no matter how hostile. Even if the Borg would inevitably assimilate or destroy them, without question. The Borg used Picard to kill thousands of people. I'm not sure committing genocide against them in return would be the best course of action. Especially after seeing a glimmer of hope in Hugh.
They're supposed to be one-dimensionally terrifying. Like the Daleks, or The Bugs/Mimics, or The Machines, or the Xenomorphs, or the Demogorgons.
"You had a chance to destroy an enemy, but instead made the moral choice and let them live, so now every evil act they commit since then is on you." Is such a simplistic and reductive argument. Letting someone evil live isn't just moral because killing is wrong, it's moral because it allows a chance for redemption. For that evil to atone and try to amend their actions. You kill them, you might be preventing further potential evil, but you're also preventing potential good. Letting someone live is giving them choice. An opportunity. If they don't take that chance to change, that is still that evil's choice. They made the choice. Not you. It's on them. Not you as the one that spared them. Picard sent off Hugh with newfound individuality and understanding. He was giving the Borg a choice. The Borg don't give choices. For Picard to give Hugh an understanding of choice, then not give him a choice to be a weapon of genocide is worse than the Borg, it is wrong. To rob the Borg the chance to be become something better is wrong. To kill the billions of people victimized by the Borg is wrong. Picard gave them a choice. They're the ones that have to make it. It isn't on him.
If you could go back in time and kill Hitler's mother would you do it? I would because I'm not going to let my personal sense of morals stop me from doing the right thing.
After the extravaganza of the S3 finale and how widely accepted it was, it was pretty smart on the writers part to not try to top that. Instead they very successfully explore the idea of a Borg suddenly faced with the aspect of individuality. Such a great metaphor for a coming of age teen: no longer just a member of their family, but now he has to find out who he is. The genocide storyline is compelling, but I’m much more interested in Picard and Guinan facing their demons. Huge kudos to Jonathan Del Arco for creating a very memorable character. S for “singularity rules!”
This is probably the fan favorite episode that I enjoy the least. I just don't care for the Borg at all outside of their first appearance. I also don't buy into Picard's BS reasoning for not taking a chance to exterminate the Borg. The Borg are an existential threat to the entire galaxy and you don't take the chance to get rid of them? I think at some point the ends do justify the means. There's a great episode in a later series that handles this sort of issue in a more believable way. I guess Picard saw the Federation's plot armor and realized he didn't need to do anything.
Great story! In my humble opinion, this is the last great Borg story. The recoverability of Hugh's individuality raises interesting questions about the morality of destroying the Borg. Personally, I disagree with Picard's choice, he should have pulled the trigger. But I see how he got to the choice he did make. S-tier
For my money, this is the best Geordi episode. Picard coming back from his brief assimilation was largely implied to be a fluke or miracle. Hugh showed us that underneath every drone there is a person, suppressed and deprived of free will. Hugh's defiance of "Locutus" was a powerful scene, and the fact that his individuality was strong enough to convince Picard and Guinan of all people that he's more than an automaton makes Hugh a very memorable character.
I love how this episode showed some of Guinan‘s flaws without it feeling out of character and also gave her some some character growth
“IT'S NOT A PERSON, DAMMIT—IT'S A BORG!!!” Words they should have lived by.
This is a D for me, one of my least favorite episodes. It's just not acceptable that a chance to defeat a genocidal enemy is so rejected. This story morally elevates Picard and his crew far past believability. Fight me, I'm right.
I neither like nor hate this episode, but its biggest concern to me is the humanizing of the Borg. It sets a terrible precedent for future episodes!
Easy S for me. This is what I want Star Trek to be about.
Great performances. Great debate. A.
I really like Jonathan Del Arco in this.
I think this is a natural extension of the Borg story, dealing with themes of collective vs individuality. There’s power in language. The word “I” packs a punch, here. Also, Guinan has nice character growth here, while usually she’s the one carrying the character growth of others.
Not a huge fan. I want the Borg to be badass not pussies
You're in for some disappointment, then. 🙇
In Best of Both Worlds, Riker makes a tough call to sacrifice Picard to destroy just one Borg ship. In this episode, Picard chooses NOT to sacrifice one Borg to potentially destroy all Borg. Who do you think made the right decision?
Riker.
Teetering between S and A for me. The Picard parts here is what push it to S for me - seeing how deep the hurt still is in him
Alex & Josh - if you were each in Picards chair, would you have let Hugh go, or given him the picture virus and (possibly) end the threat of the Borg forever..?
good question
Really interesting direction they went with the Borg here. On the one hand, it feels like it 'humanizes' them by introducing us to Hugh, yet at the same time it's actually doubling down on just how horrific the Borg really are because they've assimilated billions of people just like Hugh and robbed them of their individuality and freedom. I also like the ethical discussion of whether it's the right thing to do to try to commit genocide against the Borg. Considering who the Borg are and how powerful and dangerous they are, do you guys feel it would be justified to wipe them all out if the Federation were given that chance, or is it too unethical?
It's basically the trolley dilemma when you think about it. Both Picard and Hugh demonstrate that there are still people trapped inside every drone who could be liberated. They're innocent victims so ethically you would want to try and free them. On the other, more practical hand, that's not likely to happen outside of rare cases, so choosing to wipe out the borg is sacrificing the people they're already robbed of their individuality, but it prevents the same from happening to anyone else in the future.
When this episode first aired, I thought the Ready Room scene between Picard and Hugh was absolutely chilling. It seemed, at first, that Hugh had somehow triggered Locutus within Picard, not that Picard was only testing him. I think it’s fair to say that the prejudice Kirk had against the Klingons is echoed by Picard against the Borg. Being assimilated with all individuality erased and then used to murder 11,000 Federation lives will do that to you. Even to someone as enlightened as Picard. Lots of moral conflicts in this one. S-Tier for me.
I knew from the start it was Picard's way of asserting control over the situation, but it was still creepy.
S, for finally giving Picard an L moment and behavior, but also giving him the space to learn. It's episodes like this that make me love the show. Stewarts and Goldbergs preformances here shows they are not perfect paragons of morals, but people who still have room to grow.
Picard was not wrong. The Borg are THE FUCKING BORG!
At this point we're used to seeing Picard in various diplomatic crises, weighing the letter of the law against what he believes to be the spirit of his oath and duty. His feelings often show through in those situations, but they're not in conflict with his thoughts. It's a good move to see that formula tweaked here, with a very rational man trying to make a clear-headed decision amidst emotional turmoil. It's also a nice continuation of the character growth we saw in Families.
A from me, a different look at the Borg, and a recognition that behind each drone is a person. Looking forward to the discussion on this one.
*was a person
Hugh was one of the more interesting characters to show up. Interactions with picard and Guinan were ingaging. I give it an A.
Okay... this is generally considered a top-tier episode. But after your response to Trek 6, I wonder how it'll go. For me, I think it's a good look at how easy hurt based hatred is. Picard has trauma, so he sees all Borg as evil. And a connected, hive-minded Borg kinda is. But he then goes out of his way to avoid any chance that might remotely allow him to sympathize with Hugh. Fear allows you to Other people, to de-humanize them into monsters so it's easier to hurt them. And it can quite literally happen to anyone. Even Picard.
Because all Borg ARE evil—the idea of the Borg is the antithesis of human culture. If the Borg were fine to leave everyone else alone that would be one thing, but they're NOT. They are a cancer on the cosmos.
Ahhh…my namesake. Decent episode, solid A, I just couldn’t bring myself to give it an S grade. Maybe because I could bring myself to giving a shit about Hue. I would’ve killed him and saved the quadrant. I liked the episode’s name though.
The continuing quest to discover what oath Picard actually cares about, the one he took to always protect earth from its enemies certainly depends on whether he feels like it or not.
It's in the murky grey muck of morality that Star Trek often finds it's best plots. It seems that both choices could be difficult to live with, do you think Picard made the right one? This episode is one of my favourites.
I'm never a fan of Borg episodes, but this is pretty decent. B for Borg.
Why aren't you a fan?
It's hard for me to agree with the crew on this one. Their failure to act basically leads to the continued murder and assimilation of billions of individuals...
Exactly. It's not that some good can't come out of The Borg, but it can't be considered to outweigh the bad.
Ahh The Borg. This is sort of a continuation to the Arc of Picard dealing with his trauma. He has all of the hallmarks of PTSD but in true form he is able to move past it (with some gentle nudges from Guinan). This episode to me shows just how amazing a leader Picard is. He goes from wanting to violently strike out in retribution, and basically commit genocide on the borg, to realizing that Hugh has in fact transcended and become a fully realized individual.
Do you think Hugh's newfound (and shortly lived) individuality will have any impact on the Borg in the future?
We know Picard always makes the moral choice (and is undefeated!) but do you guys think his experience with the Borg projected a desire to heal or redeem, or did his decision rest solely on the content of the episode? And would Picard have admitted if it did?
Episodes like this are what Star Trek is all about imo
Love this episode - it’s been a while since we had some proper Guinan scenes, and the ready room scene is superb
Picard's demeanor when Hugh is in the ready room and calls Picard Locutus, it gets me everytime. You can still see how scared Picard is from his time with the Borg, even after 2 years.
It's been a while since we saw the Borg, but here they are again! This one, though, is a sympathetic Borg who develops individuality. Will Picard come to regret not using Hugh as a weapon to destroy the Borg Collective? Time will tell. I love this episode. Season 5 already has more “Best of the Best” ranked episodes for me than any season so far, and here's another one.